RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)

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Ric Schultz

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #220 on: 30 Sep 2012, 06:54 am »
I can see the tube connectors on more inexpensive stuff that people DIY.  You do have to reterminate your speaker wire with the tube male connector.......not such a big deal for those who are DIYers and make their own cables.  But people buying $20,000 speakers?  Most of these people already own speaker wires that are expensive and probably terminated with spades.  How are they going to use their speaker cables?  They cannot.

The tube connectors are not sonically better than the binding post bypass system.  The binding post bypass system allows you to use any spade or bare wire speaker wire and clamp it directly to the wire coming out of the speaker.  The only limitation of the binding post bypass system is you cannot use really large gauge wires coming out of the speaker to wrap around the outside of the binding post for the clamp.  The binding post bypass system can be used on amps too....same results....you cannot go back to any binding post.

However, a plastic or wooden clamping system is even more transparent.  Even the mass of the connector messes up the sound even though you are clamping the wires together......so the best thing is clamping without any metal.  A clamp system also allows the customer to also use Zobels, Ground Enhancers, Bybees, whatever, in conjunction with the speaker wires.

The picture below shows a cotton covered wire coming out of the amp through some grommets using very inexpensive binding posts.  This could be made to look mucho better for the serious money people.

 
« Last Edit: 30 Sep 2012, 08:17 am by Ric Schultz »

Danny Richie

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #221 on: 30 Sep 2012, 01:38 pm »
Quote
How the heck do you pull this off with the Neo 3 rated at 93 dB/W sensitivity?? 96 dB for the 4 Neo10s makes sense though.

It's a custom version.

Quote
I can see the tube connectors on more inexpensive stuff that people DIY.  You do have to reterminate your speaker wire with the tube male connector.......not such a big deal for those who are DIYers and make their own cables.  But people buying $20,000 speakers?  Most of these people already own speaker wires that are expensive and probably terminated with spades.  How are they going to use their speaker cables?  They cannot.

The male end of the Electra Cable tube connectors can easily be fitted to any speaker cable in just a few minutes. The tube connectors also accept a standard banana plug, but will obviously not sound as good.

The biggest problem I have seen in the past with the by-pass system is the often exposed bare wire. So after some time the connection quality is often compromised by oxidation. I am not saying this always happens, but it often happens. The second biggest problem with that being used in high end audio is the same as the biggest problem the tube connectors have faced. It is not audio jewelry.

HT cOz

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #222 on: 30 Sep 2012, 01:45 pm »
Ahh just leave the wire hanging out with a pack of these

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder if you can find them in wood?

 :thumb:

Nick77

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #223 on: 30 Sep 2012, 02:27 pm »
Quote
     The male end of the Electra Cable tube connectors can easily be fitted to any speaker cable in just a few minutes. The tube connectors also accept a standard banana plug, but will obviously not sound as good.                                                                 

My speaker cables have spades on one end and banana's on the the other so the tube connectors worked out. I wasn't about to chop up my $1500 speaker cables, i agree this could be a issue for high end market. I'm sure the option of a high end standard posts would solve this issue.

Russell Dawkins

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #224 on: 30 Sep 2012, 08:39 pm »
Ahh just leave the wire hanging out with a pack of these

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wonder if you can find them in wood?

 :thumb:

That would probably work well, if done right!

I understand the best connection of all is proper wirewrap around a square post - better than solder.

Danny Richie

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #225 on: 30 Sep 2012, 10:08 pm »
My speaker cables have spades on one end and banana's on the the other so the tube connectors worked out. I wasn't about to chop up my $1500 speaker cables, i agree this could be a issue for high end market. I'm sure the option of a high end standard posts would solve this issue.

My thinking is the complete opposite. Why would I want to use a high quality $1,500 a pair speaker cables then degrade the sound with a spade or a banana plug if I didn't have to? New ends can be put on in about 20 minutes. And if you already have the ends...  A pretty significant tweak that cost nothing but a little bit of time, you bet!

Nick77

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #226 on: 30 Sep 2012, 10:58 pm »
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jtwrace

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Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #227 on: 30 Sep 2012, 11:14 pm »
My thinking is the complete opposite. Why would I want to use a high quality $1,500 a pair speaker cables then degrade the sound with a spade or a banana plug if I didn't have to? New ends can be put on in about 20 minutes. And if you already have the ends...  A pretty significant tweak that cost nothing but a little bit of time, you bet!
The problem that you have is that it completely devalues the cables.  Until you convince all the "high end" cables guys that Tube Connectors are the new standard, you will have an issue if you are really going to be selling these speakers for $20k. I highly doubt that most will chop them up for Tube Connectors.   :dunno:

persisting1

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #228 on: 30 Sep 2012, 11:17 pm »
The problem that you have is that it completely devalues the cables.  Until you convince all the "high end" cables guys that Tube Connectors are the new standard, you will have an issue if you are really going to be selling these speakers for $20k. I highly doubt that most will chop them up for Tube Connectors.   :dunno:

You can always send your cables in to get re-terminated by the factory. Not convenient, but much cheaper than new cables.

jtwrace

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Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #229 on: 30 Sep 2012, 11:19 pm »
You can always send your cables in to get re-terminated by the factory. Not convenient, but much cheaper than new cables.
Yes, I know that.   :duh:  For instance, I'm not so sure that Cardas would even put them on though.

persisting1

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #230 on: 30 Sep 2012, 11:25 pm »
Yes, I know that.   :duh:  For instance, I'm not so sure that Cardas would even put them on though.

I was under the impression that the tube connectors accepted banana plugs. You can have Cardas add those if you have spades or bare wire.

persisting1

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #231 on: 30 Sep 2012, 11:33 pm »
jtwrace, you're right.

I feel your pain. If this hobby "allowed" me to be happy with my purchase and never needed to upgrade, then this wouldn't be a problem.

Milehighguy

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Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #232 on: 30 Sep 2012, 11:39 pm »
I was thinking about this issue recently as I was contemplating puting together a N3S kit. Actually, I'm hoping to have the Skiing ninja do the work as soon as I get some spare change. Anyway, it occured to me that it doesn't have to be an either/or decision. You can have tube connectors on the back of the speaker attached to the crossover net work by a pair of wires,  and also have conventional connectors also mounted on the back of the cabinet and attached to the same points of the crossover network with a different pair of wires. You might have to put a little sign on the back saying "use only one pair of connectors at a time".
You could also have a sliding cover over the connectors. Slide the door to the right and the tube connectors are uncovered, but the conventional connectors are covered. Slide the cover to the left and the tube connectors are covered, but the conventional connectors are uncovered.
I ran this by Danny and the Skiing ninja, and they both said it would work.

Danny Richie

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #233 on: 1 Oct 2012, 01:13 am »
I was under the impression that the tube connectors accepted banana plugs. You can have Cardas add those if you have spades or bare wire.

They do. The tube connectors accept standard banana plugs.

And I don't see it as de-valuing a cable by upgrading the ends. Another 20 minutes later and a new set of spades can be put on if that is what someone wants. No big deal.

jtwrace

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Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #234 on: 1 Oct 2012, 01:16 am »
Another 20 minutes later and a new set of spades can be put on if that is what someone wants. No big deal.
That's not true if you have any cable that has printed shrink tube on them from the factory.  Any decent cable guy does this so they know they haven't be touched. 

There's a bit more to it then hack-n-cut. 

Danny Richie

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #235 on: 1 Oct 2012, 01:25 am »
That's not true if you have any cable that has printed shrink tube on them from the factory.  Any decent cable guy does this so they know they haven't be touched. 

There's a bit more to it then hack-n-cut.

Jason, there is nothing to terminating a cable. Cut, strip, crimp, solder, heat shrink....  And you're done.

jtwrace

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Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #236 on: 1 Oct 2012, 01:29 am »
there is nothing to terminating a cable. Cut, strip, crimp, solder, heat shrink....  And you're done.
Really?  I had no idea.  Sorry, you just don't get it I guess.

Danny Richie

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #237 on: 1 Oct 2012, 01:39 am »
Really?  I had no idea.  Sorry, you just don't get it I guess.

Oh yeah, fancy labeled heat shrink. It would be a shame to loose that. That might de-value the cable hundreds of dollars.  :roll:

Funny thing is that I sell quite a few of those tube connectors to my customers. And I have had a few note a considerable improvement in the sound when swapping them into their speakers from various top level binding posts. They then order more tube connectors for all of their other speakers and extra male studs to put on all of their other extra speaker cables.

I think I get it, and my customers seem to get it as well.

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #238 on: 1 Oct 2012, 02:46 am »
 :o
 :slap:
 :(

I am VERY sorry!  It seems like every time I try to type something into this thread, it just ends up going bad.  I'm going to do what I probably should have done from the start - I'm going to as graciously as I can bow out of this thread and hopefully let it get back to positive energy looking forward to hearing the new Super-7.

See y'all in Denver.

SoCalWJS

Re: RMAF new stuff, new stuff.... (pics on page 2)
« Reply #239 on: 1 Oct 2012, 03:01 am »
Oh yeah, fancy labeled heat shrink. It would be a shame to loose that. That might de-value the cable hundreds of dollars.  :roll:

Funny thing is that I sell quite a few of those tube connectors to my customers. And I have had a few note a considerable improvement in the sound when swapping them into their speakers from various top level binding posts. They then order more tube connectors for all of their other speakers and extra male studs to put on all of their other extra speaker cables.

I think I get it, and my customers seem to get it as well.
:nono:
Danny

Never forget the puurty factor  :green:

There is something to be said for it - especially for those that have resale value in mind (at least in the back of their minds) when they purchase something.  :peek:

 :green: :green: