[ecramer]

For me a lot of the fun with Cd's or lps is gong to rack and finding something that i haven't heard for a while the covers see who played on ect. That's why you will see me post a couple of PJ harvey cd on the what are you listening to thread as i got the urge from an other thread. I never do a play list its always the whole cd or at worst one side of an lp I have my entire cd collection 31953 tracks  burned to mp3 to use for on my portable player that i use for work but i still copy whole albums over never just a bunch of tracks. For me i take each album as it comes, because that's what and in that order the artiest presented the material We were basically talking about  the difference between sirloin and porterhouses with computer based systems and cdp  and analog  THey all work its just what sounds good to you

ED    

I thought I would miss the ritual of grabbing the LP or CD, but I honestly don't.  It has been replaced by the simplicity of having access to my entire collection with a few clicks of a remote or mouse.

While at times I might cruise from album to album a little quickly, the reality is that I listen to a SUBSTANTIALLY larger portion of my collection now, which is a very good thing.

George

Whats really funny is that a lot of times i will fill my mp3 player from the computer take it to work and listen then hear a  album thinking to my self dang this is good haven't heard that for a while and end up digging it out and putting it on the player latter on that night so the easy access to all my music does the same for me i just have an extra step or two in the process

Ed,

[nicksgem10s]

I have owned several high end turntables, phono preamps, cartridges, and the required record cleaning machines, fluids, & brushes.

Vinyl can sound utterly amazing when the system is dialed in and when using great quality vinyl.  I have had vinyl that sounds better than most or possibly even all cds.  I have to say that only applies to a small percentage of albums/records I have own.  I have some DCC pressings that seem pretty magical.

I also have gone through a ton of digital gear for cd playback and have reached some conclusions.  While I love vinyl, digital rules in my system.

I have been using my computer based playback system and now have the best sounding digital source I have experienced.  It is a custom built USB dac made by ASi Teknologies called BUSB.  It is battery powered and provides the best digital playback I have enjoyed in my system as well as dealer systems, other audiophiles I know, and audio shows that I have been to (AK Fest 05, 06, 07, 08).

I am not selling my vinyl collection as I do love records.  I just realize I finally have a digital playback system in my home that for the very first time does not leave me wondering about upgrading my digital source or getting a new turntable/cartridge/phono preamp.

I honestly feel that using a computer/hard drive/right dac properly optimized will surpass any cd player on the market.  I think we have just now reached this point in two channel audio.

This is not to say I don't appreciate vinyl and the people who swear by the format.  I need both formats to get music from all the artists I am interested in.

I own more cds than vinyl and I believe that will continue until they stop selling cds.  Then it will probably be downloads that surpass the physical copies of music I own.  I hope this doesn't happen for a long time as I really enjoy shopping at music stores for new/used cds & vinyl.

-Nick

[Mathew_M]

All of this is very subjective.  The majority of my most memorable "audiophile" experiences have come while listening to vinyl.  Vinyl is what can make my jaw drop with an excellent recording.  Vinyl more easily "transports" me than digital.  Certain music such as Jazz I can only really enjoy with vinyl.  Jazz just sounds more real, organic and most of all "musical".  I've heard digital sound sonically as good or better than vinyl (detail and dynamics) but it still lacks the organic texturing.  With that said, my vinyl rig is pretty average right now.  I need a better phono amp.   Finding good condition vinyl is difficult as hell when even brand new pressings have the potential to sound like crap.  And when I do find a good pressing eventually a few annoying pops and ticks will surface 

Getting rid of the transport helps digital a lot and with the combination of tubes I can listen to my Squeezebox for hours...but I still wind up returning to vinyl.

[marknoir]

John,

Try this free high definition download.http://www.hdtracks.com/

Perhaps you should audition cutting edge digital audio such as the Modwright Transporter, the various offerings by Empirical Audio or a modded Squeezebox and power supply.

As you can see here lots of very experienced audiophiles with $$$$ are excited about the Modwright Transporter. I suspect that many of these 'phools have high end vinyl rigs.http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56360.0

CD players will soon be obsolete.

-Roy

Thx for the link. I'm not the original poster, but I though I'd try it as well...

I tried the download. I laso downloaded MediaMonkey to play FLAC files... I don't know whether my computer's sound card is not up to par, or there is something else, but quality is not what I expected. It is better than MP3 for sure, but it has a weird "plasticky" feel to it. And on "Big Bad Girl" there is a distinctive raspy distortion whenever voice gets loud, akin to MP3 artifacts. So far, both my lowly regular CD player and LPs sound better... I will try to burn these HDs on a CD and play them thru my main system, but so far I'm not convinced.

[TheChairGuy]

Browntrout,

I think your personality may be on the carefree and easy side - but, if you could dispense with some of the harsher verbiage such as 'It is you that knows very little you pompous ass. ' many of us would appreciate it.

I thought the post was informative...but, a lot of folks won't get past that last line and take it all in as you wish them to.

Thanks, John / co-Facilitator

LOL.   You tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and that the tunes don't 'go through' the computer. I spent the last five years fixing computers and all the component parts that make up a PC as that was my job as an electronics technician. I built the PC I write this on which uses a compresor and refrigerant to cool the CPU to minus 56 degrees centigrade to enable an overclock to just below 4ghz from my Pentium D dual core.
    The tunes do go through the computer, from the hard drive to northbridge to ram to northbridge to CPU to northbridge to ram to soundcard and through southbridge to USB/firewire/wireless card to the air to the 'squeezebox' and through the same junk then to your speakers then the air then your poor ears. Thats why it sounds so good.......not.
    Silly statement finished.
  It is you that knows very little you pompous ass.

[Browntrout]

I wont have someone tell me I know nothing about computers, infer I'm an idiot, or insult me in any other way whether on the net, face to face or on the phone. Too many people think they can put thinly veiled derogatory comments on places like this and just because they don't insult someone directly they get away with it.
  At least I have the decency to insult the man plainly and clearly so he understands were he stands with me. If ZYBAR thinks he can just write something insulting my intelligence and I'm supposed to let it ride then he has another thing coming.
  I spend my working days as a prison officer dealing with the worst kind of people and I don't tolerate being insulted by them so why the hell should I let some coward on the internet insult me and not be addressed for it?
  However I do understand your concern for what I write and thankyou for being a good admin.  I shall write no more.

[TheChairGuy]

However I do understand your concern for what I write and thankyou for being a good admin.  I shall write no more.

Thanks - if Zybar/George had actually called you an idiot, I'd understand the escalation in anger up to 'pompous ass'

But, he didn't - what you inferred from his comment(s) may be right on the money or off base - so your response needn't be quite as stinging.

Anyhow, I think you understand the whole shebang just fine - feel free to post here in Vinyl Circle as you want/need to - juuuuuuust remember most of us aren't prison inmates and cussing ain't the norm in talking with one another (and can be wildly misunderstood if you do)

Peace , John

[doug s.]

...if Zybar/George had actually called you an idiot, I'd understand the escalation in anger up to 'pompous ass'

But, he didn't - what you inferred from his comment(s) may be right on the money or off base - so your response needn't be quite as stinging...

hey tcg, i understand your reaction to browntrout's response to george's comments.  but...  re-read george's comments again:

A post like this just shows you don't understand what computer based audio is.

I personally don't care if you like it or not, but I really wish people who say they don't like something, at least understand what they don't like.

would you care to wager whether what browntrout inferred is off base or not?  name your amount.   

now, i don't have any dogs in this fight; what i have heard from well-done computer-based digital is yust as good as well-done cdp-based digital.  and, i have heard it done damn well.  while i believe, as others have mentioned, that recording quality is now pretty-much determinant of whether digital is or is not better than winyl, to my ears, if recording quality is equal, winyl will sound better.  but i don't really sweat it; like rim said, if it's music i like, (and the recording isn't completely butchered), i can get immersed in cd playback easily enough.  there was a time, as late as the mid 1990's, when i could not say that, and i wondered if it ever would be able to say it.  i am glad i can say it, as there is a lot of music i like that ain't on winyl.

another thing that has been mentioned here - listening in a big room, well i have to totally disagree that winyl won't shine in a big room.  the one thing i miss in my system, more than any other component, is the 28x36 room, which opened to other spaces w/total area about twice that size.  in that room, my rig had dynamics in spades, and my main speakers were conwentional stand-mount 2-way monitors w/focal tweet and 7" eton midwoofer, back then.  about 90db-efficient, nothing to indicate fantastic dynamics, unlike some coincident victory's i owne since, or my present horns...



doug s.

[zybar]

I wont have someone tell me I know nothing about computers, infer I'm an idiot, or insult me in any other way whether on the net, face to face or on the phone. Too many people think they can put thinly veiled derogatory comments on places like this and just because they don't insult someone directly they get away with it.
  At least I have the decency to insult the man plainly and clearly so he understands were he stands with me. If ZYBAR thinks he can just write something insulting my intelligence and I'm supposed to let it ride then he has another thing coming.
  I spend my working days as a prison officer dealing with the worst kind of people and I don't tolerate being insulted by them so why the hell should I let some coward on the internet insult me and not be addressed for it?
  However I do understand your concern for what I write and thankyou for being a good admin.  I shall write no more.

Please come off your high horse.  What I wrote in my post to you is no different than what I would say to you face to face.  I don't appreciate being called a coward simply because I wrote something on the internet vs. having the opportunity to say it to your face. 

Based on your comments, I still stand by mine. 

I have too have been building computers for the last 20 years, that doesn't make me knowledgeable about computer based audio.  What makes me knowledgeable, is the last 5+ years I have been heavily involved in the area.  I have learned from practice and by interacting with people who share their experiences and knowledge.

BTW, if you want to know how good the Transporter measures from technical standpoint, just look at the review on Stereophile.  The person who measured it called it state of the art and as good as it gets.  That is with it receiving its files/music from the computer, not some standalone bench test.

George

[Bob in St. Louis]

Wow. This is a rough joint. Is it worth explaining or does it matter at this point?

Bob

[TheChairGuy]

Okay gents - let's just call computer audio a much misunderstood sub-section of high fidelity - due to whatever reason.

Bob, please don't explain it further   I got me a handful with the current explanation(s) at hand.

John

[Bob in St. Louis]

 

The Vinyl Circle...... The NEW Roughest Place in Town.

Bob

Edit; It's a size thing isn't it? Your disks are bigger. It all boils down to the size.
I just got that.  aa

[zybar]

Okay gents - let's just call computer audio a much misunderstood sub-section of high fidelity - due to whatever reason.

Bob, please don't explain it further   I got me a handful with the current explanation(s) at hand.

John

Sorry John.

I will not engage with BrownTrout any further.

George

[Derockster]

Well done John.

[Kirk57]

If I may weigh in here...I've been a die-hard vinyl addict for years, and did a lot of collecting in the 80's and '90s so now have ~3000 lps (nowhere near as many here, but still...)

Also have about 10 turntables, have done the RB300 rewire thing and the AR mod thing and acrylic platters and Lenco plinth, etc, etc....

I never really liked CDs; seemed like something was just not quite right.

But recently got a Squeezebox duet and a Valab DAC.  Using I-tunes and Apple lossless files, the sound is very good and this is not high end by any means, $550 total. I've A/B'ed the music streaming from the SB with the LP (cartridge is AT150mlx, Sumiko BPS EVOIII) and there are plusses and minuses for each, LP has the slightest edge on a good recording. The lossless files are ripped from redbook CD, steaming at 48k (the limit for the Squeezebox) or converted from my turntable.

The thing that is going to cinch it is the ability to play randomly your entire collection via a remote control....I don't know how many times something is playing and I'll say "cool, what is that?" and it's a song that I've had for years and never listened to because it was the 3rd on the B side of some album.

This random function gives equal time to ALL my music, allowing me to explore and connect with my
collection in a totally new way.

Also consider that a small percentage of new music, even going back to the 1990's, ever came out out vinyl at all.  My vinyl collection pretty much stops at aroung 1988 or so with few exceptions.
Playing vinyl pretty much means playing old music (yes I know *some* new stuff is being released on vinyl).

I'm really enjoying my newly replinthed Lenco, but for me, the Hard Drive based system looks like the future and it sounds really good.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Excellent post Kirk! Very well said Sir. 
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Bob

p.s. I LOVE your signature line. That's classic. 

[Big Red Machine]

But don't the clicks and pops ruin the mood?

[TheChairGuy]

But don't the clicks and pops ruin the mood?

Unless they are outright skips, or really persistant and loud clicks and or pops.....they don't spoil my mood.

Zealously cleaning the discs you listen to really does a lot to scrub away the potential mood-ruining issue of clicks and pops.

John

[Niteshade]

I have transferred various sources over to CD (including records) and could not find any recording errors.

Something else tried: Before I had a CD recorder, my HiFi VCR was used for archiving. The HiFi track is recorded in FM, is extremely quiet (FAR better than a REEL to REEL) and has a response of 20-20K.  Some of my VHS tapes are 10+ years old and they still play like new!  These audio VHS tapes do not have video on them.

[Brown]

My take. Good music is good music. Any format capable of giving me goosebumps is fine. Wether its Cd, LP or usb DAC delivering the music.
  Lately have been intrigued by a HRC Musicstreamer + USB DAC. Running J. River Media center for playback with ASIO#4 as drive. Rip with EAC using FLAC. Man this little baby is suprising me every day. If I listen to the same music on each format its getting harder to determine which is best. They all have their differences small but noticeable. The USB DACs bass and sheer ultra quiet background allows more music to emerge from the source. The LP has more weight to the sound and a bit better decay of notes. The CD falls somewhere in between. In the end with a good recording the LP still is my favorite by a nose. Finishing second is NOW [ using a one meter silver USB instead of generic 4 meters, huge difference ] the USB DAC and computer.