[RRW]

Well thank guys for all the input. I will go down the suggestion list  this weekend.
The 2” melamine is put up there to help with absorption and to cover the highly reflective ceiling. I will spin the tube traps. And try to experiment. Behind the fabric cityscape on the front wall is 1” melamine foam. To help with unwanted reflections..
I agree the speakers are large, but music does sound very satisfying in every way but when female vocals such as opera and pop where they are hitting the stratosphere with higher notes. 
Maybe too much compression on the recordings.

[JLM]

Why do you blame room acoustics?  What changes have you made in the room/system that timing wise coincides with what you're hearing?

Do you have any acoustical test results for melamine foam?  Acoustic properties cannot be determined based on intuition or appearance.

[Early B.]

Why do you blame room acoustics?  What changes have you made in the room/system that timing wise coincides with what you're hearing?

Yeah, I had the same questions, especially if it's a new concern. You have good gear, but bright interconnects could be the culprit.

[twitch54]

Well thank guys for all the input. I will go down the suggestion list  this weekend.
The 2” melamine is put up there to help with absorption and to cover the highly reflective ceiling. I will spin the tube traps. And try to experiment. Behind the fabric cityscape on the front wall is 1” melamine foam. To help with unwanted reflections..
I agree the speakers are large, but music does sound very satisfying in every way but when female vocals such as opera and pop where they are hitting the stratosphere with higher notes. 
Maybe too much compression on the recordings.

one other thing to remember, your Logans impedance curve drops as freq increases, so depending on you amplification and it's ability to satisfy loads @ 4 ohms and lower, that could be part of the problem.

[dflee]

Not being in the same league as some of the guys here but will throw out a thought.
Might it be a tube that's causing the problem. I would try a set of headphones and see
if it still persists. If so then it is probably coming from the equipment. Have you tried
moving the speakers at all? Toe in or toe out may make for sound change.

Don

[Stercom]

one other thing to remember, your Logans impedance curve drops as freq increases, so depending on you amplification and it's ability to satisfy loads @ 4 ohms and lower, that could be part of the problem.

He has Odyssey Kismet monos. I've owned those amps. He has plenty of current to satisfy 4 ohm loads. He needs to get those amps off the hard footers they come with and use copper cables.

[twitch54]

He has Odyssey Kismet monos. I've owned those amps. He has plenty of current to satisfy 4 ohm loads. He needs to get those amps off the hard footers they come with and use copper cables.

 

[Tyson]

Try reversing phase on your speakers.  Some gear inverts phase, some does not.  Inverted phase can account for the type of harshness you're hearing.

Otherwise with electrostatic speakers, try to get them as close to your listening spot and as far away from the rear wall as possible.  And use thicker/heavier absorption on the rear wall.

[DaveC113]

I know it's tough to hear, but those are one of the worst speakers for that room you could have possibly chosen. And the setup, while I understand it is dictated by the room, is horrific for a dipole speaker.

Lol @ advise to change cables, footers, etc.  IMO, don't spend ANY effort on this, just get new speakers and go from there. I'd love to sell you some cables and I do have some nice ones, but my best advise is to NOT to buy anything except for new speakers right now.

Or, if you have a larger room move into a larger room where you can have at least 4-6ft behind the speakers and are willing to add diffraction and absorption to the front wall.

However, I do agree with doing some basic checks to make sure you don't have one channel with inverted phase, a bad tube, etc, but I think you'd notice it on everything and it doesn't change the fact those speakers are less than ideal for your room.

[Stercom]

Lol @ advise to change cables, footers, etc.  IMO, don't spend ANY effort on this, just get new speakers and go from there. I'd love to sell you some cables and I do have some nice ones, but my best advise is to NOT to buy anything except for new speakers right now.

Dave, you know I like your products (you've made a number of cables for me over the years) but it's a lot easier to try different footers/cables than getting a whole new set of speakers especially since he is satisfied and only has a problem on female vocals. Hell, cut some tennis balls in half and put them under those amps and then find some cheap copper cables. If there is nothing you can do to solve the problem you are hearing on female vocals - then start over with different speakers. IMO

[DaveC113]

Dave, you know I like your products (you've made a number of cables for me over the years) but it's a lot easier to try different footers/cables than getting a whole new set of speakers especially since he is satisfied and only has a problem on female vocals. Hell, cut some tennis balls in half and put them under those amps and then find some cheap copper cables. If there is nothing you can do to solve the problem you are hearing on female vocals - then start over with different speakers. IMO

Obviously, I disagree. IMO there is no reason to get anything but new speakers because the current speakers will have issues that cannot be solved in that room.

[AZWINK]

I’ve owned large ML stats since ‘96 and I’ve dealt with this issue in many systems including my own. My suggestion is to try different amplification with a higher current output. Sanders Sound Systems ESL or Magtech amps is a suggestion. Your Odyessy amps only output 45 amps of current. In the high frequencies ML’s dip to 2ohms or below and current demands are tremendous. I would try this first and then start tuning and changing interconnects and sound absorption.

https://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/esl-monoblock-amp

Hope this helps!

Dan

[WGH]

Before lockdown our audiophile club compared my Van Alstine SET 400 to an Odyssey Kismet on a pair of Zu Dirty Weekends. I was a close call and we had to switch back and forth. The AVA amp had a deeper soundfield with a defined, well rounded center image, closer to a tubed amp. The Kismet was more exciting with more prominent highs which one member initially preferred but we eventually all agreed this Kismet's sound was tuned a hair too bright for these speakers.

The Kismet sound can be adjusted by changing the bias, I don't know how much that changes the presentation and Klaus has so many options that can fine tune the sound to compliment your preference, electronics and speakers.

"On a scale running from -10 for very cold to +10 for very warm, my observation—and Klaus confirms it—is that the Kismets are set at the factory to be slightly on the warm side of neutral and that’s a good place to start for most listeners. The initial voicing of the amps is around +0.5, half a unit to the warm side. If you describe your speakers and cabling beforehand, Klaus can dial in an appropriate setting for you at the factory."

"Higher bias makes the Kismets warmer; lower bias cooler. A couple of millivolts make a noticeable difference."
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/odyssey2/4.html

[RRW]

Hi guys. These are some acoustical readings for my melamine foam.                                                           
SOUND ABSORPTION (HZ)
SABINS PER (ASTM C423-90A)
125   250   500   1000   2000   4000   
1.0   5.4   10.8   16.3   18.7   24.0   12.7

I turned my diy  traps 180 degrees which are located behind both sides of my chair on the back wall with the reflective side facing forward. Put 1’x4’x2” melamine panel on the first reflection points on side wall. I seemed to help. I bought them at Acousticsolutions.com.
I think part of the issue was the volume i was using last week. 86db’s.
There is a lot of reverb used on this recording.

I forgot to mention I had Batpro II supertweeter hooked up also.(feel free to comment on that☺️).
I realize the speakers are large however they do produce very nice sound in this room.
Maybe you guys also gave certain song selections that sound awful.?



I did use EQ Wizard and took a couple of measurements if anybody is interested?

[Early B.]

I forgot to mention I had Batpro II supertweeter hooked up also.(feel free to comment on that☺️).

I realize the speakers are large however they do produce very nice sound in this room.

Well, the supertweeter thing -- you should have led with that. Search the forum and see what advice Danny at GR Research provides about supertweeters.

Hey -- if you like the speakers, that's good.

You got a helluva lot going on in that tiny room. Old audiophiles have a saying: "Keep it simple."

[Tyson]

Why do you have a super tweeter hooked up?

[Letitroll98]

The use of a super tweeter kinda answers all the questions here.

[thunderbrick]

The use of a super tweeter kinda answers all the questions here.

+1!   Maybe add a resistor to tame them, Maggie-style?

[rollo]

Hi guys.
I am having an issue with the way female jazz vocals and piano sound in my room.
The vocals are harsh and ringing while piano sounds like a wood block with no air surrounding the notes.
Cd quality or hi Rez gives the same presentation.
The the lower frequencies sound great, acoustic guitar drums male vocals are very nice.
Any guidance out there?

  Is this an all of a sudden experience ? If so not your room . It is your set up. Anything new put in ? Change anything ?


charles

[mick wolfe]

I'll "assume" the supertweeter is also driven by the main amplifiers. If that's the case, it may be creating an unfriendly impedance curve for the amps.