AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: Tyson on 11 Jan 2022, 04:16 am
-
Background
I am an inveterate upgrader of gear. I tend to buy the very best basic design I can find and then upgrade it with premium parts throughout in order to really let that particular design shine. I do it with DAC’s, Preamps, Amps, Music Servers and Speakers. Nothing escapes my soldering iron! :thumb: :lol:
In that light, I thought I would take apart my X3’s and get some upgrades done. Obviously at this point in my life, I’ve taken apart (and built from scratch) a lot of speakers. So taking them apart should be no problem, right? WRONG! Man, these speakers are tricky as hell. I tried and tried but never could get them apart. So I called Clayton to see what could be done.
During the call, it became clear that the best way to go about upgrading the crossover parts and the wiring was to simply create an external crossover with the new parts and unhook the existing wiring from the exposed backs of the midrange and tweeter. Ah, that I can do! Now I just need a schematic so I know the value of the parts to order. Which Clayton was kind enough to provide.
Warnings and Caveats
I’ve done upgrades like this a LOT, so I am very comfortable doing this type of work. If you are not, then I recommend NOT doing any of this as there is definitely risk that you can screw something up and cause damage. And if you cause damage, well you already voided your warranty, so caveat emptor!
The midrange driver is very easy to disconnect and re-wire because it’s just a clip on connection. But the tweeter is a different story. The wires are direct soldered. And not only that they are encased in plastic, so if you use too much heat for too long, they will turn loose and float because the plastic will melt. YOU’VE BEEN WARNED.
I should also note that the parts Clayton uses in the original crossover in the speaker are already excellent. No need for anyone to upgrade them, unless they are crazy. I, of course, am crazy.
Reasons for Doing the Upgrade
If you read my review of the X3’s, you know they are world class speakers, one of the top 10 speakers I’ve ever heard. The problem is that the speakers that I have in the #2 spot actually sit in my basement in my downstairs system, the GR Research Super 7’s. The X3’s get compared to them in my mind, pretty much every time I listen to them. Which is not fair because the Super 7’s are in a better room and they already have super-premium crossover parts and wiring.
Thus, the crossover upgrades and re-wiring of the X3’s are my way of leveling the playing field so I can actually get a fair comparison between the 2 speakers.
Upgrade Strategy
I will be doing the upgrade in 3 stages.
First, I will make both caps for the midrange and the tweeter Vcap ODAMs. In the original crossover, only the tweeter has an ODAM. And I’ll be changing out the existing Dueland hookup wire for the VH Audio OCC pure copper hookup wire. I’ll be upgrading the existing air core inductor to a UPOCC foil/wax inductor by Jantzen. And last but not least I’ll be updating the Mills resistor with a pure copper Path Audio resistor.
I’ll listen to it like that for a while and get a feel for the speaker before making any other changes.
Second, I will bypass the midrange cap with a Duelund copper film capacitor and bypass the tweeter cap with a Duelund copper film capacitor.
I’ll listen to this for a while to get an idea of the overall sound quality.
Third, I’ll remove the Duelund copper bypass caps and replace them with Duelund silver film bypass caps. And I’ll also remove the VH Audio UPOCC copper hookup wire and replace it with Nimak pure silver dead annealed wire hand-polished with beeswax.
I’ll let this run for a while and then decide if I like the all copper or the all-silver with the X3’s. Should be fun!!
-
Detailed Instructions for Those That Want to do This
I'd recommend calling Clayton to discuss it before making any of these changes. He can provide you with a schematic so you know specifically what parts to order and how to wire them up. What that said, here's what I bought (below).
Here's a link to the UPOCC wire from VH Audio that I used:
https://www.vhaudio.com/unicrystal-occ-copper-wire.html
Here's a link to the Jantzen pure copper foil wax/paper inductors:
https://www.parts-express.com/Jantzen-8375-1.2mH-14-AWG-Copper-Foil-Wax-Coil-255-565
Here's a link to the Vcap ODAM capacitors:
https://www.vhaudio.com/v-cap.html#vcap-odam
Here's a link to the Path Audio pure copper resistors:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/PATH-77846.html
Here's a link to the Duelund copper foil bypass caps:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-86921.html
And for later on, here's the silver wire and bypass caps I'll be using after I get done experimenting with the copper stuff above. First is the Duelund Silver foil bypass capacitor:
https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-87178.html
Here's the Nimak dead annealed pure silver wire with beeswax polish hookup wire:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123738204587
Initial Setup
Here's the initial setup, I've not done a neat job with it because I'll be rewiring a bunch of stuff and swapping out several parts before I tidy up the work and make it look nice:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235234)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=235233)
-
Initial Listening Impressions
So I got all the parts wired up about a week ago, along with the new copper hookup wire. Well there was good news and bad news. The good news is that overall clarity, detail, microdynamics and macrodynamics all improved by a fair bit. The bad news is that the Vcap ODAMs sounded weird. Like almost 'out of phase' type of weird. So when a piano note was struck, it would get propelled from the speaker in to the room with a very weird 'bloom'. I can't really describe it better than that. But if you heard it in real life you'd recognize it. This is actually not the first time I've noticed this behavior with these caps. I ran them in a DAC and in one of my amps and they also sounded weird, until I put a bypass cap in parallel. After a few days of burn in on my X3's, I did just that.
Adding Duelund Copper Bypass caps
I added the Duelund copper bypass caps for the mid and the tweeter ODAMs and wow, that really elevates the sound of those caps. Don't get me wrong, the ODAMs have some great attributes on their own like really great dynamics, ultra clarity and incredible neutrality. But what they don't have is great tone or amazing soundstaging. Adding the Duelunds brings those qualities, in spades.
So this is where I am right now. Everything is still burning in. But even now I can tell that the upgrades have taken the basic, core sound of the X3's (which I love) and elevated it. Especially in 2 areas I felt that they really fell short of my Super 7 speakers, namely dynamic liveliness and mid/tweeter integration. Don't get me wrong, the X3's are excellent in those areas even with the stock crossovers. But now they are world class. Can't wait to see how it all sounds when I move everything over to silver in the next week or 2.
-
You are pretty crazy but I do enjoy seeing your adventures. I have had the honor of hearing Tyson's systems and can confirm the quality and wonderful listening experience.
-
You are pretty crazy but I do enjoy seeing your adventures.
+1
-
People may think you're crazy, but the bottom line is if it sounds better, then it sounds better! To me it makes perfect sense--you never really know what a speaker sounds like until you've upgraded it's parts--I did that with my M3Turbo S', not at the same level but HUGE improvement. I also ended up with some Duelund Silver for the tweeter.
Just don't get into tweeks, like I did, that's a whole other can of worms! Let us know what happens!
-
Tyson, love the thread. I have my own pair of Super 7s so I am curious how the upgraded X3 will compare.
-
Tyson, I am sure you know this but give the caps 150 to 500 hours to burn in. I replaced all 12 of the PIO Jensen super pak caps in my BAT preamp with the same caps and I thought I ruined the preamp. They finally broke in at about 150 hours.
-
Really Interesting this upgrade. I am sure many will follow it closely.
Thank you for sharing your Journey
-
Initial Listening Impressions
So I got all the parts wired up about a week ago, along with the new copper hookup wire....
Thanks for doing this. Keep the info coming.
-
You are pretty crazy but I do enjoy seeing your adventures. I have had the honor of hearing Tyson's systems and can confirm the quality and wonderful listening experience.
You'll have to come by again once the burn in is all done. Of course, I am about to complicate things because I just bought a new piece of gear (a DHT Type 31 preamp) to go into my upstairs system. Currently my iFi iDSD Pro tubed DAC is driving my amp directly. It's a great DAC, but driving an amp directly is not really its strength. It sounds much better as a plain DAC and feeding a quality preamp. We'll see how it goes...
(https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/3635587-159e1fd8-type-31-dht-preamplifier.jpg)
People may think you're crazy, but the bottom line is if it sounds better, then it sounds better! To me it makes perfect sense--you never really know what a speaker sounds like until you've upgraded it's parts--I did that with my M3Turbo S', not at the same level but HUGE improvement. I also ended up with some Duelund Silver for the tweeter.
Just don't get into tweeks, like I did, that's a whole other can of worms! Let us know what happens!
So far so good :thumb:
Tyson, love the thread. I have my own pair of Super 7s so I am curious how the upgraded X3 will compare.
Certainly much closer now.
Tyson, I am sure you know this but give the caps 150 to 500 hours to burn in. I replaced all 12 of the PIO Jensen super pak caps in my BAT preamp with the same caps and I thought I ruined the preamp. They finally broke in at about 150 hours.
It's crazy. Some days the system sounds amazing other days it sounds distressingly bad. Guess I just have to ride out the burn in process.
Really Interesting this upgrade. I am sure many will follow it closely.
Thank you for sharing your Journey
Thanks for doing this. Keep the info coming.
You are both very welcome!
-
Okay Tyson, it's been 10 days. Either your are busy soldering everything like crazy or you are chill, drinking wine, and listening to fabulous music.
Marcus
-
Haha, you're right - time for an update. Man, these ODAM caps take for ever to burn in. I feel like the new crossovers have only really come in to their own over the last day or 2. And I generally play them about 14 to 16 hours per day. So probably 150 hours on the new crossover right now. I'm running everything through the VH Audio OCC copper hookup wire and using copper foil Duelund film caps to bypass the ODAMs on the tweeter and midrange both.
What I can say is that the overall sound of the X3's is not fundamentally changed in any way. The new crossover sounds pretty similar to the old crossover. But, there have been improvements. The slight lack of integration between the mids and highs is now fully resolved. The slightly curtailed dynamics are now fully in the 'jackhammer' level now. In addition, things like detail and soundstage have improved nicely. Where before the stock crossover was a very clear window into the original recording, now it's like the window has been removed completely.
-
No need for anyone to upgrade them, unless they are crazy. I, of course, am crazy.
This being the case, what would be interesting is to compare the upgraded passive x-over to high-quality active crossover including room measurement and DSP correction. :thumb:
-
Sounds a bit like, with apologies to Pete Townsend, meet the new crossover, same as the old crossover.
-
This being the case, what would be interesting is to compare the upgraded passive x-over to high-quality active crossover including room measurement and DSP correction. :thumb:
I ran a fully active setup (with room, speaker and implulse/phase correction) and realized after living with that approach for a long time, that a well done passive approach is better. At least for me.
-
I ran a fully active setup (with room, speaker and implulse/phase correction) and realized after living with that approach for a long time, that a well done passive approach is better. At least for me.
+1 for a passive approach to room treatment.
-
I respectfully disagree, recently heard an active 2 way that blew my mind!! DSP technology is advancing every month ie. look at the capabilities on the new Minidsp Flex which has the ability to really help the tweakers move thing forward. Not trying too lick a beehive, just pointing out the fact that DSP today is not like DSP of yesterday.
Cheers,
Don
-
Where before the stock crossover was a very clear window into the original recording, now it's like the window has been removed completely.
This is pretty much the same thing I experienced with the ODAM/Duelund combo on my NX-Oticas and NX-Studios. I found that the Duelund bypass caps took even longer than the ODAMS to break in. Probably 300hrs.
-
I respectfully disagree, recently heard an active 2 way that blew my mind!! DSP technology is advancing every month ie. look at the capabilities on the new Minidsp Flex which has the ability to really help the tweakers move thing forward. Not trying too lick a beehive, just pointing out the fact that DSP today is not like DSP of yesterday.
Cheers,
Don
What do you mean by "yesterday?" How fast is DSP technology advancing in relation to cost?
-
Background
I am an inveterate upgrader of gear. I tend to buy the very best basic design I can find and then upgrade it with premium parts throughout in order to really let that particular design shine. I do it with DAC’s, Preamps, Amps, Music Servers and Speakers. Nothing escapes my soldering iron! :thumb: :lol:
....
Hey!
Yeah, the curse of being audio DIYer :lol: I totally understand that. The hard part is know when to stop before you take it too far :icon_lol:
Buddy
-
Time for some more changes. Over the past weekend I created a crossover box using this box:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253045671485
And these connectors:
https://gr-research.com/product/electra-cable-tube-connectors/
A friend of mine punched out some holes in his machine shop so everything looks nice and clean.
Here's what my living space looked like on Saturday, haha:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236404)
Closeup of the boxes with just the holes punched:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236405)
Some of the Electra Tube connectors in place. Yes, hammering was necessary:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236406)
All assembled (with crossover now in place):
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236407)
And here's the back of the speakers, with the crossover box in place. I also changed out the VH Audio OCC copper wire with Nimak audio 16ga pure silver, hand polished with beeswax wire, you can see it here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123738204587
And installed on the speaker:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236408)
-
Have you used that Nimak pure silver wire before on other speakers or amps? Curious how it compares to the VH Audio wire as I like it very much.
-
Tyson:
You just can't seem to leave well enough alone can ya?
Some of us (well ok, just me) think that an expensive piece of equipment wouldn't need
monkey f%#king with. But not you, no you have to take it to the next extreme. I almost
feel bad for you with your condition but on the other hand am way jealous of you abilities
and the knowledge to do the things you are doing. So I guess I'll just say "carry on my good man"
Signed
One Jealous Bastard
-
Have you used that Nimak pure silver wire before on other speakers or amps? Curious how it compares to the VH Audio wire as I like it very much.
Yes, I've used the Nimak silver speaker cable in my downstairs system, replacing the VH Audio Chela speaker cable. I liked it so much, I eventually re-wired my downstairs speakers with the Nimak silver hookup wire I linked above. Normally I am a person that hates silver wire because I'm ultra-sensitive to brightness, but the Nimak silver wire is smoooooooooth. And, at the same time it reveals a metric ton more detail than any copper wire I've ever heard. It's kind of the bargain of the century, IMO.
Tyson:
You just can't seem to leave well enough alone can ya?
Some of us (well ok, just me) think that an expensive piece of equipment wouldn't need
monkey f%#king with. But not you, no you have to take it to the next extreme. I almost
feel bad for you with your condition but on the other hand am way jealous of you abilities
and the knowledge to do the things you are doing. So I guess I'll just say "carry on my good man"
Signed
One Jealous Bastard
Haha, in some ways I feel it might actually be better for my mental health if I could just leave well enough alone. But I can't :lol:
-
Haha, in some ways I feel it might actually be better for my mental health if I could just leave well enough alone. But I can't :lol:
I dont think I've ever not found the need to crack open a piece of audio equipment, car, motorcycle,.....you name it. Always something that can be improved on. I know the Cornwall IV's I modded with the guidance of some very knowledgeable folks out there was a good 20% increase in performance over what is already a very fine speaker. As for mental health? For me I would be more fugged up if I didnt try to mod something. Keep on tinkering Tyson.
: :lol:
-
Well, dang Tyson. You left out the best part: How does it sound with the new crossovers?
-
I sure hope that was an audiophile rated mallet.
-
I wish I didn't see this post.
I know how I am. Mr. upgrade everything till its broken or I'm having to serve alcoholic beverages to the musicians in my room.
-
Well, dang Tyson. You left out the best part: How does it sound with the new crossovers?
I'd actually typed up a long answer to this question a week ago but it got lost when I got banned from AC. Now that my ban from AC has been lifted, I can finally answer this question! And it's probably for the best as it gave me an extra week for the changes to fully cook and for me to acclimate to the changes.
Here's what I'd say, overall. The speakers were already world class before I made any changes. Even bone-stock, they had very few weaknesses. And the weaknesses they had were all rather minor. So any changes I've made have been built upon that very solid foundation that Clayton created in the first place.
Having said that, I'd also note that the bass and lower mids didn't change much, before and after. It was amazing before the upgrades and is about the same level now. Upper mids are better now, as is the mids/highs integration. They were good before but phenomenal now. Ah, there is one area that DID improve across the board - detail and resolution.
Was it worth the time/money/effort? For me, absolutely. Even though in absolute terms the speakers are only moderately better than before, when you take such a great speaker and elevate it, even a little bit, the results are stunning. As for my own level of satisfaction, it took these speakers from the level of "I'm happy with them" to "I'll probably own these speakers for life".
If I could only keep 1 set of speakers, it'd still be the Super 7's in my downstairs system, but the last round of changes to the X3's closed that gap, a LOT. If my Super 7's got destroyed in a flood or something, I'd actually be able to live with the X3's in that system now.
And again, kudos to Clayton for making such a great speaker and for not charging $30k for them. Because the stock X3's spank most $30k speakers I've heard.
-
Tyson, this is great news. Thank you for updating us.
Me? No way I would attempt a crossover change (although you found a simple solution). Before I purchased the X3s, I did the SVS Ultra Bookshelf and Center channel crossover upgrade offered by Danny at GR Research. It was an adventure but I learned my limitations. Build, twist & solder wire, no-rez and manipulate the dang thing into the speaker box caused my 70 year old hands to endure cramps, bad cramps. I'm no good at carpentry either. So, the experience ruled out buying a speaker kit from Danny. Luckily, my search brought me to Spatial Audio. This was the perfect choice for me and I couldn't be more satisfied.
Marcus
-
Thanks Tyson for your detailed upgrade path to push the envelope on an already great speaker.
Guess I'll be doing the same although with some hesitation. I built a pair of GR- Research Studio Monitors and while it was fun I also had issues. A driver stopped driving :o It was replaced by GR but was uncomfortable with that whole process.
Like Marcus I'm no good at carpentry but very good at soldering and have a OK understanding of electronics. I put $2K of upgrades in my Usher Towers!
I did build a pair of Super V's that came out fantastic.
Having an open baffle speaker makes upgrading FAR easier than a box speaker so.. here we go.
-
Oh yummy, look what just showed up in the mail today, the Duelund silver foil bypass caps for my X3's:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236944)
Time to open up the crossover and replace my Duelund copper foil caps with the silver foil caps:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=236948)
-
(https://cdn.quotesgram.com/small/15/55/1983397468-53222801.jpg)
-
First impressions - well there's WAY more detail now. But also a shift in tone toward brightness. Honestly not unexpected. If past experience is anything to go by, the caps will smooth out over time but will never be slightly warm like the copper caps were. We'll see.
-
First impressions - well there's WAY more detail now. But also a shift in tone toward brightness. Honestly not unexpected. If past experience is anything to go by, the caps will smooth out over time but will never be slightly warm like the copper caps were. We'll see.
For years I either built equipment, both tube and SS, or did a lot of parts upgrades, especially with signal path parts. I have two thoughts. I have always found silver to be overly "bright", especially in cables. Second. Bypass caps usually being low value(.1 or .01)and high quality caps tend to promote high frequencies, often causing them to be more forward and to seem brighter, with more apparent detail. Sometimes it can be just what was needed but for me more often not.
-
For years I either built equipment, both tube and SS, or did a lot of parts upgrades, especially with signal path parts. I have two thoughts. I have always found silver to be overly "bright", especially in cables. Second. Bypass caps usually being low value(.1 or .01)and high quality caps tend to promote high frequencies, often causing them to be more forward and to seem brighter, with more apparent detail. Sometimes it can be just what was needed but for me more often not.
Hey!
That's pretty much how I feel about silver cables also. Tried some silver hookup wires sometime ago, after a short while I went back to copper wire. I prefer high purity 6N long/single crystal copper wire. Good thing when I bought my tube amp I didn't go for silver output transformer option... luckily I couldn't afford that back then :icon_lol:
Buddy
-
Did you make or by your power cords?
-
If I could only keep 1 set of speakers, it'd still be the Super 7's in my downstairs system, but the last round of changes to the X3's closed that gap, a LOT. If my Super 7's got destroyed in a flood or something, I'd actually be able to live with the X3's in that system now.
And again, kudos to Clayton for making such a great speaker and for not charging $30k for them. Because the stock X3's spank most $30k speakers I've heard.
Hey Tyson, have you ever auditioned your X3s in the same room that houses your Super 7s? I was curious if you conducted the speaker shootout in the same room before you concluded the Super 7s sound quality edged out the X3s?
Thanks for sharing your X3 upgrade adventure!
-
First impressions - well there's WAY more detail now. But also a shift in tone toward brightness. Honestly not unexpected. If past experience is anything to go by, the caps will smooth out over time but will never be slightly warm like the copper caps were. We'll see.
They will smooth out a lot. Mine took several hundred hours to get there.
-
Did you make or by your power cords?
I did. I used this raw cable:
https://gr-research.com/product/24-strand-diy-audiophile-speaker-cable/
And these connectors:
http://www.viborgaudio.com/en/Product/a/chanpin/jianzhusheji/2019/1231/313.html
-
Hey Tyson, have you ever auditioned your X3s in the same room that houses your Super 7s? I was curious if you conducted the speaker shootout in the same room before you concluded the Super 7s sound quality edged out the X3s?
Thanks for sharing your X3 upgrade adventure!
I haven't, and probably won't, because getting the X3's into the basement involves wrestling them down (and then back up!) a set of narrow stairs. I might have done it when I was younger but I'm too old for that nowadays.
Some people might not agree with me re: the Super 7's being better. The thing they do better is specifically the mid/tweeter integration and the overall level of detail and transparency. On the other hand, the X3's are better at lower midrange power, upper bass rhythmic capabilities and overall dynamic punch. So, based on the music ones listens to, I can easily see someone preferring the X3's overall.
They will smooth out a lot. Mine took several hundred hours to get there.
Yep, that's already started to happen.
-
I haven't, and probably won't, because getting the X3's into the basement involves wrestling them down (and then back up!) a set of narrow stairs. I might have done it when I was younger but I'm too old for that nowadays.
Some people might not agree with me re: the Super 7's being better. The thing they do better is specifically the mid/tweeter integration and the overall level of detail and transparency. On the other hand, the X3's are better at lower midrange power, upper bass rhythmic capabilities and overall dynamic punch. So, based on the music ones listens to, I can easily see someone preferring the X3's overall.
Yep, that's already started to happen.
I got'cha... Thanks
-
Some people might not agree with me re: the Super 7's being better. The thing they do better is specifically the mid/tweeter integration and the overall level of detail and transparency. On the other hand, the X3's are better at lower midrange power, upper bass rhythmic capabilities and overall dynamic punch. So, based on the music ones listens to, I can easily see someone preferring the X3's overall.
This was my prediction:
Here's my best guess at what Tyson's impressions will be: X3's highs are better than the Super 7's (more reserved and definitely more resolving), mids are close (not-so-subtlely different, with a preference for the Super 7's due to his musical tastes), and the bass is better overall on the Super 7's (no surprise there). Then he'll say the perfect speaker would be the Super 7's with the X3 tweeter while extolling the benefits of a horn.
How far off was I? :lol:
-
This was my prediction:
Here's my best guess at what Tyson's impressions will be: X3's highs are better than the Super 7's (more reserved and definitely more resolving), mids are close (not-so-subtlely different, with a preference for the Super 7's due to his musical tastes), and the bass is better overall on the Super 7's (no surprise there). Then he'll say the perfect speaker would be the Super 7's with the X3 tweeter while extolling the benefits of a horn.
How far off was I? :lol:
Not too far off! I’d say I prefer the top part of the Super 7’s, tweeter and midrange together. But the drivers in the X3’s are no slouches, and they certainly have more dynamic punch. Low bass is better on the Super 7’s but upper bass is better on the X3’s.
-
I should also note that the reason it’s so critical for me to get the X3’s fully maxed out, performance wise, is because about 90% of my music listening happens upstairs nowadays. And I don’t want to feel like there’s something missing in any way vs. the downstairs system. And now I feel that I am not.
-
Update time. After burning in the silver Duelund bypass caps for 2 weeks straight, I have a pretty good idea of the sound of this bypass cap. Also, remember that I swapped over to the Duelund silver from a Duelund copper bypass cap.
Things I liked about the silver - far more resolution and better transparency and soundstage layering
Things I didn't like about the silver - loss of tonal beauty vs. the Duelund copper cap
So, what to do? Quite the dilemma. I love the extra resolution of silver but I cannot live without the tonal accuracy that copper brings. Well, here's a pic of what I decided to do:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=237784)
Yes, I decided to use BOTH. So far the sound is VERY good. All of the copper tone plus most of the silver resolution. Me happy.
-
Yes, I decided to use BOTH. So far the sound is VERY good.
Haha, you would... It's like the guy who wanted waffles for breakfast but fried chicken also sounded good and refused to choose. Perhaps you are going to start a trend. Interesting concept though, getting a musical mash-up in design.
-
It's definitely cheaper than my other option of buying copper foil caps to replace the main caps. 15uf copper foil caps are very expensive!
-
Yes, I decided to use BOTH. So far the sound is VERY good. All of the copper tone plus most of the silver resolution. Me happy.
nice!
-
While reading your message I thought "combine them" and that's what you did. Again, if it sounds good it IS good! Now I don't feel so bad about using two types of EL34's on my VAC int. amp! Enjoy!
-
Yes, I decided to use BOTH. So far the sound is VERY good. All of the copper tone plus most of the silver resolution. Me happy.
Lol that’s awesome! I guess it’s time for me to add some coppers to my Silvers.
-
Yesterday was my birthday (hello 50!) so I bought a nice present for myself. Miflex copper caps to use in my X3 crossovers. The size difference between the ODAM and the (ridiculously large) Miflex is quite funny:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238720)
The new caps don't even fit in my external crossover box so I have to have them comically sit on top of all the other parts with the lid off:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238721)
Right off the bat, I'd say that the Miflex is a step up on tonal quality but a step down in detail and resolution vs the ODAM/Duelund combo. We'll see how things go as I get through the next 500 hours of burn in.....
-
Happy birthday! Great job on a present for yourself!
-
Yesterday was my birthday (hello 50!) so I bought a nice present for myself. Miflex copper caps to use in my X3 crossovers. The size difference between the ODAM and the (ridiculously large) Miflex is quite funny:
Happy Birthday and it’s nice to be able to treat yourself with new upgrades for your fun filled hobby!
-
Yesterday was my birthday (hello 50!) so I bought a nice present for myself. Miflex copper caps to use in my X3 crossovers. The size difference between the ODAM and the (ridiculously large) Miflex is quite funny:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238720)
The new caps don't even fit in my external crossover box so I have to have them comically sit on top of all the other parts with the lid off:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238721)
Right off the bat, I'd say that the Miflex is a step up on tonal quality but a step down in detail and resolution vs the ODAM/Duelund combo. We'll see how things go as I get through the next 500 hours of burn in.....
Happy Birthday Tyson and welcome to the 50 club!
George
-
Thanks all! The funny thing is I don't really feel any different than when I was younger. Hope that keeps up for a while longer :)
-
Right off the bat, I'd say that the Miflex is a step up on tonal quality but a step down in detail and resolution vs the ODAM/Duelund combo. We'll see how things go as I get through the next 500 hours of burn in.....
Having compared Miflex and ODAM on my preamp outputs, I’m not surprised at this initial impression and suspect it won’t dramatically change, though am sure Miflex will get more refined with time. But it makes me wonder whether you will prefer just the silver Duelund bypass caps with it, and whether they bring the detail back closer to the ODAM with copper+silver bypass. I have Duelund copper bypass caps on my preamp Odams and Miflex (separate outputs). Have always been curious what silver bypass caps would do on those Miflex.
-
Thanks all! The funny thing is I don't really feel any different than when I was younger. Hope that keeps up for a while longer :)
Yeah, the inability to discern differences is a symptom of impending old age. Soon you'll begin to imagine that you can still hear overtones and spaciousness. It's sad. Inevitable, but sad. I remember that period of transition well.... I think.
-
Yeah, the inability to discern differences is a symptom of impending old age. Soon you'll begin to imagine that you can still hear overtones and spaciousness. It's sad. Inevitable, but sad. I remember that period of transition well.... I think.
What did you say? I can't hear you! :dunno:
-
Hi Tyson,
I've also replaced the series cap bypass for my mids, and highs from Sonicap gen 1, to myflex kpcu.
Initially i felt it as quite a step down, because the resolution was much worse compared to the Sonicaps. The tonal balance was better, because my speakers did need a bit more warmth in the highs. The Myflex did just that.
After two and a half months of use, the resolution has shown great improvements, but i still think the Sonicaps give just a little more detail.
But the myflex sound so incredible realistic. I will not change them back for the Sonicaps bypass. I feel like the music is even more natural, and played live in my room. Like you can almost feel the musicians playing in your room. The burnin time is also ridiculously long for these caps. In my case they are still improving after 2,5 months of use. They are worth it.
My highs did need just a hair more warmth, the myflex took care of that.
Al other caps are bypassed with sonicap gen 1's. Also a great sounding cap.
Good luck with your project, have fun!
-
Thanks all! The funny thing is I don't really feel any different than when I was younger. Hope that keeps up for a while longer :)
Same here…when I turned 50 last year it was basically a non-event.
George
-
...Right off the bat, I'd say that the Miflex is a step up on tonal quality but a step down in detail and resolution vs the ODAM/Duelund combo. We'll see how things go as I get through the next 500 hours of burn in.....
It appears you didn't bypass the Myflex (yet?) with the Silver Duelunds? That would surely return much of the detail you lost with this change.
Happy Birthday. I remember 50 like it was yesterday.
-
Hi Tyson,
I've also replaced the series cap bypass for my mids, and highs from Sonicap gen 1, to myflex kpcu.
Initially i felt it as quite a step down, because the resolution was much worse compared to the Sonicaps. The tonal balance was better, because my speakers did need a bit more warmth in the highs. The Myflex did just that.
After two and a half months of use, the resolution has shown great improvements, but i still think the Sonicaps give just a little more detail.
But the myflex sound so incredible realistic. I will not change them back for the Sonicaps bypass. I feel like the music is even more natural, and played live in my room. Like you can almost feel the musicians playing in your room. The burnin time is also ridiculously long for these caps. In my case they are still improving after 2,5 months of use. They are worth it.
My highs did need just a hair more warmth, the myflex took care of that.
Al other caps are bypassed with sonicap gen 1's. Also a great sounding cap.
Good luck with your project, have fun!
Thanks, yes I agree completely.
Same here…when I turned 50 last year it was basically a non-event.
George
The only thing I notice is sometimes bruises will just show up on some at random place on my body and I have no idea how the hell they got there, haha.
It appears you didn't bypass the Myflex (yet?) with the Silver Duelunds? That would surely return much of the detail you lost with this change.
Happy Birthday. I remember 50 like it was yesterday.
That's not a bad idea! I'll give it a try once the big Miflex caps are fully burned in.
-
Happy 5th decade, Tyson. I'm slightly ahead of you on this planet :D
I look forward to your trifecta bypass cap juggenaught! :thumb:
-
(https://static1.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/mini-ls-engine.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=750&h=393&dpr=1.5)
If Tyson were to build a car, this would be his style... :lol: Take something great and sensible and go full tilt fun modding it to make them truely one of a kind. The fact that your paint can sized copper caps sit on top is hilarious. I love seeing the progress on this as it really is a textbook lesson on experimenting with crossover voicing to get YOUR perfect sound. Just remember not to throw your back out lifting those big caps around. Lol.
-
Happy 5th decade, Tyson. I'm slightly ahead of you on this planet :D
I look forward to your trifecta bypass cap juggenaught! :thumb:
Thanks Ron! And yes you know that's eventually going to happen.
If Tyson were to build a car, this would be his style... :lol: Take something great and sensible and go full tilt fun modding it to make them truely one of a kind. The fact that your paint can sized copper caps sit on top is hilarious. I love seeing the progress on this as it really is a textbook lesson on experimenting with crossover voicing to get YOUR perfect sound. Just remember not to throw your back out lifting those big caps around. Lol.
Funny thing is I ordered 4 of the 15uF caps because I wanted to swap out the Miflex for the Jupiter copper caps in my Super 7's downstairs. The box with all the caps was so heavy, my arm was sore the next day from carrying it around, haha.
-
It appears you didn't bypass the Myflex (yet?) with the Silver Duelunds? That would surely return much of the detail you lost with this change.
Yeah I'd be interested in knowing what the outcome here is as well... All in due time of course.
-
I couldn't stand my crossovers in that tiny metal box, so I ended up mounting them to some bamboo boards instead. Here's the final state of my X3 crossovers:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241479)
-
What happened to all the bypass caps?!
-
What happened to all the bypass caps?!
I might play around with them again in the future. But the Miflex are very nice without them.
-
That's the prettiest crossover wiring I've ever seen. You should see my embarrassing work on Danny's SVS Ultra upgrades. But, hey, it works and no one can see it inside the speaker box.
Marcus
-
I might play around with them again in the future. But the Miflex are very nice without them.
Great to hear! Very nice crossover - I’d find comfort in both being able to look at those big Miflex’s on occasion and having easy access for any other tweaking.
-
That's the prettiest crossover wiring I've ever seen. You should see my embarrassing work on Danny's SVS Ultra upgrades. But, hey, it works and no one can see it inside the speaker box.
Marcus
Thanks, it's all hand polished, dead annealed pure silver wire in teflon. Great wire, easy too use, easy to route and sounds amazing. I actually rewired the entire X3's with that wire (tweeter, midrange and bass driver).
Great to hear! Very nice crossover - I’d find comfort in both being able to look at those big Miflex’s on occasion and having easy access for any other tweaking.
Yep, if I do want to make changes, it's now super easy, barely an inconvenience!
-
Tyson, where did you get that wire? I’m looking at an upgrade of my second speakers Focal Aria 906’s
-
Tyson, where did you get that wire? I’m looking at an upgrade of my second speakers Focal Aria 906’s
Here's the Nimak dead annealed pure silver wire with beeswax polish hookup wire:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123738204587
-
I couldn't stand my crossovers in that tiny metal box, so I ended up mounting them to some bamboo boards instead. Here's the final state of my X3 crossovers:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=241479)
Do you feel like the tube connectors to the internal wires sacrifice anything? I was lightly considering getting a small flotilla of tube connectors to do that on my NX-tremes...
... because clearly encouraging myself to make multiple swappable crossovers is a good idea...
-
Do you feel like the tube connectors to the internal wires sacrifice anything? I was lightly considering getting a small flotilla of tube connectors to do that on my NX-tremes...
... because clearly encouraging myself to make multiple swappable crossovers is a good idea...
Tube connectors are definitely transparent. Very little insertion loss. Although direct wiring to the drivers is best, of course.
-
Here's the Nimak dead annealed pure silver wire with beeswax polish hookup wire:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/123738204587
I forget, are you also using this as your speaker cable?
thanks
Ron
-
I forget, are you also using this as your speaker cable?
thanks
Ron
I use the Nimak speaker cable on my Super 7's downstairs. For the X3's I'm a beta-tester for the new Hapa Audio speaker cable, which is phenomenal.
-
I couldn't stand my crossovers in that tiny metal box, so I ended up mounting them to some bamboo boards instead. Here's the final state of my X3 crossovers:
No more adventures? I guess, it is the best crossover for you.
-
No more adventures? I guess, it is the best crossover for you.
I actually changed the Path Audio resistors to Duelund silver CAST resistors. In fact, I noticed that in my setup the tweeters were a bit subdued, so I changed the value from 8ohms to 7ohms and now the sound is much more balanced the way I like it.
But yes, overall you're absolutely right - I arrived at the best crossover for me, I'm super happy with it and done tinkering with the speakers.
Am I done doing upgrades period? No, I'm now messing about with my ethernet switches and CAT8 cables, upgrading them all to audiophile parts. It's nice that the speakers are resolving enough that even minor things like that can be heard pretty clearly.