AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: Canada Rob on 25 Feb 2015, 07:23 pm

Title: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Canada Rob on 25 Feb 2015, 07:23 pm
It often comes up on the AC forum and in dealing with customers: "what are the differences between the 3, 7, and Alnico series speakers?"
My conclusions are based on having tube and SS amps in front of the Omegas, and the systems in various venues from quite live to quite dead acoustically. All will run well on a watt and a half. YMMV.

Concerning imaging: All Omegas image insanely good, often extending beyond the outside left and right of the speakers.  They play well with all types of music in all kinds of environments, not just intimate nearfield "girl with guitar" type situations.  All Omegas are also very fast.

3 Series: Electrostatic speed, huge presentation for such compact speakers with a single tiny driver, clear defined well focussed pinpoint imaging, very transparent and revealing with incredible detail.  Hearing what comes out of such a small driver will play with your head.

7 Series: Fast, dynamic, punchy, fuller sounding than the 3 series.  Top end closer to the 3 series than the Alnico.  Soundstage a little deeper than the 3 series, but not quite as defined.  Greater texture than the 3 series and can go louder than any of the Omegas I've heard. Aside from the new 8" coming out they are the most efficient.  Happy with all types of amplifier.

The Super 8: I haven't heard it yet, but Louis says it sounds like the RS5 on steroids, and with more dynamics.  Also very efficient at 98dB.  One of the prettiest drivers I've ever seen in some of the most beautiful towers Louis has ever produced.

Alnico Hemp Series: Really in a class by themselves.  Rich and lush, tonally very even and non-fatiguing, incredible tonal density layering and texture, deepest and most ethereal image of all the Omegas, the most refined, and the best rendering of bass I recall hearing.  Smooth without sounding rolled off on the top end. Complex music is a cinch.  The most addictive Omega I have ever heard.

The High Output (HO) Series: These take the sound of the single driver version to the next level in dynamics, and in their ability to play more complex music.  They still have all the excellent properties of a single driver.  Nothing is lost.  Everything is gained.

 :thumb:
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: pstrisik on 26 Feb 2015, 03:25 pm
Thanks Rob.....   I want Super Alnico Monitors!   (http://smiley.nowdararpour.ir/love/82.gif)

......Peter

Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: seikosha on 26 Feb 2015, 09:25 pm
Thanks for posting Canada Rob.  Very appreciated.
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: n2djazz on 17 Apr 2015, 12:16 am
Canada Rob et al,
Could you elaborate on the differences between the Super Alnico Monitors and the Super Alnico XRS? I know the monitors are rear-ported and the XRSs are ported at the bottom of the cabinet. My room is open-ended and measures 11 x 11 feet with a 9ft ceiling. Behind my sitting position is a two-story foyer. Beyond the foyer is a dining room with 9ft ceilings. Technically, the nearest wall behind my seating position is of no consequence. I am leaning towards the monitors because I think I heard them about 7yrs ago. If it were the Monitor I heard, I was very impressed. I would like to go with 14" stands. Your advice on that too? Thanks. Michael
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: FullRangeMan on 17 Apr 2015, 12:52 am
The Super 8: I haven't heard it yet, but Louis says it sounds like the 7 series, but with even more dynamics.  Also more efficient at 98dB.
Rob,
There is a new 8'' FR at Omega or you are referring to the old 8'' models?
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: Canada Rob on 17 Apr 2015, 01:08 am
Rob,
There is a new 8'' FR at Omega or you are referring to the old 8'' models?
Hi FRM,

It's the new model I'm referring to, which I haven't heard yet.  Its shown here near the bottom: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129159.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129159.0)
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: FullRangeMan on 17 Apr 2015, 01:20 am
Hi FRM,

It's the new model I'm referring to, which I haven't heard yet.  Its shown here near the bottom: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129159.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129159.0)
OK just see it, its Alnico too?
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: Canada Rob on 17 Apr 2015, 03:50 am
OK just see it, its Alnico too?
Ferrite, and not hemp.
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: FullRangeMan on 17 Apr 2015, 04:12 am
Ferrite, and not hemp.
Ferrite and paper it will be a option to persons that like that kind of sound, sensitivity 98dB is very good to a small amp.
A nice add to the lineup.
Title: Re: THE SOUND CHARACTORISTICS OF THE VARIOUS OMEGA SPEAKER SERIES
Post by: mresseguie on 28 Apr 2015, 09:58 pm
Thanks, Rob.

I'll check them out in a very few days.

See you then.

Michael
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: recarcar on 26 Mar 2016, 04:56 am
Anyone have any experience comparing the Alinco series with some DIY plans from commonsenseaudio? I'm trying to decide whether I should just bite the bullet on the Super Alinco monitor or go the route of maybe 10' or 12's from the classic line in the biggest of their monitor cabinet plans.   
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Seamaster on 22 Mar 2017, 03:18 am
Can someone describe what is the new SUPER 8 XRS' tonal signature?
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: pursuitofnow on 22 Mar 2017, 03:07 pm
Any comparisons of Super 3 HO XRS to the Super 8 XRS?
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: tdogzthmn on 25 Mar 2017, 03:21 pm
I'd also be interested in learning more about the RS8 vs RS5 drivers.  I listen to a wide array of music and worry the RS5 while speedy and accurate will not provide enough body to the music.  I've run 2.1 systems before but I'd prefer to keep it a simple 2 way setup for now.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Brianportugal on 26 Mar 2017, 06:10 pm
I have the 3xrs and I am so impressed with them. These with my Primaluna prologue 2 and Ressonance dac are wonderful sounding. I just heard Feastrex 12 cm on you tube but they are 10 times the cost. The clarity of both are unsurpassed. I have Spica Angelus and they sound vieled compared to my 3xrs. Louis is amazing!!
Brian
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: nature boy on 26 Mar 2017, 06:16 pm
I'd also be interested in learning more about the RS8 vs RS5 drivers.  I listen to a wide array of music and worry the RS5 while speedy and accurate will not provide enough body to the music.  I've run 2.1 systems before but I'd prefer to keep it a simple 2 way setup for now.

It's probably unlikely that someone, other than Louis, has compared the two drivers side by side.  The RS8 are so new.  You may have to wait a while.

NB
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: pursuitofnow on 26 Mar 2017, 06:58 pm
I was hoping Louis or Rob would chime in.  :wink:
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: roscoe65 on 26 Mar 2017, 07:42 pm
I have the 3xrs and I am so impressed with them. These with my Primaluna prologue 2 and Ressonance dac are wonderful sounding. I just heard Feastrex 12 cm on you tube but they are 10 times the cost. The clarity of both are unsurpassed. I have Spica Angelus and they sound vieled compared to my 3xrs. Louis is amazing!!
Brian

Did you listen to them using Youtube as a source or listen to a video of them on Youtube through your current system?
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: rfprice on 10 Jul 2017, 05:53 pm
Hello,

I have a Cary 300b integrated and I'm thinking about a pair of Omegas. I like what I'm reading about the Super 3 High Output but maybe the Alnico, Compact or Super, is the way to go. Silly question, I know, but can someone comment on the differences here? Are the Super 3's more fast, more dynamic, than the Alnico? What do you give up?
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: FullRangeMan on 11 Jul 2017, 10:58 am
A good Alnico driver is all about sweet harmonics and even the the FF is better than a Ferrite magnet imo.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: BrystonNut on 14 Aug 2017, 09:06 pm
Why not post tech data on the frequency response curves?  This is needed to determine how they're voiced...maybe I am missing something here.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: FullRangeMan on 14 Aug 2017, 09:44 pm
deleted
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Wind Chaser on 14 Aug 2017, 11:13 pm
Wild and crazy FR chart pulled!  :thumb:

Ouch!  :|
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: BrystonNut on 15 Aug 2017, 02:49 pm
Ouch indeed, that is a little nasty...I would expect music to have too much sizzle. 
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Wind Chaser on 15 Aug 2017, 04:32 pm
Even more troubling is the 11 db suck out between 4 and 5 KHz.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Aug 2017, 06:26 pm
I wouldn't assume that chart is accurate. Who made the measurements, using what equipment, etc...

I can take measurements of my reference speakers, the Pioneer S-1EX that are very close to the TAD Evo Towers at over $30k, and get absolutely horrible results that have nothing to do with the speaker and everything to do with the room the speakers are in. I know how the speakers measure when done properly (nearly perfect) and it's very difficult to recreate this! Getting truly accurate FR measurement results is not trivial or easy.

I also think, because of these reasons and the fact Louis doesn't post measurements that it's not appropriate to post this information. It's misleading at best, and taken at it's word, which is surely not the truth, is extremely unfair to Omega. So FRM, I think you should delete your post and I think Wind Chaser needs to delete the quote. This is absolutely inappropriate imo.
 
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: roscoe65 on 15 Aug 2017, 06:34 pm
I was about to say something along the same lines as Dave.  A couple of points:

1.  The Alnico 7A driver is no longer in production.  There are some Omega owners who have owned both this driver and the new 6.5" Alnico driver and indicate that the newer driver is far superior in both sound and sensitivity.

2.  The ragged behavior in the treble is suspicious to me.  I own a pair of SAM's and while the top end can be a bit finicky it is much smoother than an equivalent Fostex.  If you look at the published response of the Fostex driver, it appears far smoother than the plot above.  However my ears tell me that every Omewga OEM driver is smoother, more sensitive, and produces better bass than the equivalent Fostex.  However, unlike JLM I have not heard the Fostex alnico versions.

I would take the plot above with a grain of salt.  I find it difficult to believe that a good sounding driver would have a 18dB delta between 4khz and 10khz.  That being said, whizzer cones can demonstrate some odd behavior in the high frequencies.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: GT Audio Works on 15 Aug 2017, 06:37 pm
I wouldn't assume that chart is accurate. Who made the measurements, using what equipment, etc...

I can take measurements of my reference speakers, the Pioneer S-1EX that are very close to the TAD Evo Towers at over $30k, and get absolutely horrible results that have nothing to do with the speaker and everything to do with the room the speakers are in. I know how the speakers measure when done properly (nearly perfect) and it's very difficult to recreate this! Getting truly accurate FR measurement results is not trivial or easy.

I also think, because of these reasons and the fact Louis doesn't post measurements that it's not appropriate to post this information. It's misleading at best, and taken at it's word, which is surely not the truth, is extremely unfair to Omega. So FRM, I think you should delete your post and I think Wind Chaser needs to delete the quote. This is absolutely inappropriate imo.
Thanks for posting this Dave, I was very tempted to chime in with a similar response.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Aug 2017, 06:39 pm
I was about to say something along the same lines as Dave.  A couple of points:

1.  The Alnico 7A driver is no longer in production.  There are some Omega owners who have owned both this driver and the new 6.5" Alnico driver and indicate that the newer driver is far superior in both sound and sensitivity.

2.  The ragged behavior in the treble is suspicious to me.  I own a pair of SAM's and while the top end can be a bit finicky it is much smoother than an equivalent Fostex.  If you look at the published response of the Fostex driver, it appears far smoother than the plot above.  However my ears tell me that every Omewga OEM driver is smoother, more sensitive, and produces better bass than the equivalent Fostex.  However, unlike JLM I have not heard the Fostex alnico versions.

I would take the plot above with a grain of salt.  I find it difficult to believe that a good sounding driver would have a 18dB delta between 4khz and 10khz.  That being said, whizzer cones can demonstrate some odd behavior in the high frequencies.

You need a purpose-made transducer to get extremely clean highs above about 15 kHz. Many can't hear up that high anyways... ;)
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: roscoe65 on 15 Aug 2017, 06:57 pm
You need a purpose-made transducer to get extremely clean highs above about 15 kHz. Many can't hear up that high anyways... ;)

Just because our ears can't hear that high doesn't make it undetectable.  The "lack" of highs may be a blessing in disguise.  A number of people are using their dedicated HF drivers facing upward to add dispersion and "air".  It may not be as compact and elegant as an all-in-one speaker but arrangements with separate bass, midrange, and HF modules can sound better.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: GT Audio Works on 15 Aug 2017, 07:05 pm
 :|
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: FullRangeMan on 15 Aug 2017, 07:19 pm
Nope! That dip in the 3-4kHz area is a real bliss to the human ears, mainly woman, this range 3-4kHz is the most sensitive of the human ear and easily irritated by tweeters or any treble sound in this range.

Its not easy made this dip in a FR driver, in tweeters its impossible in the current technology stage, also its very rare find a FR driver with this feature, this dip made the Omega drivers sound like magic IMO.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Aug 2017, 07:27 pm
Just because our ears can't hear that high doesn't make it undetectable. The "lack" of highs may be a blessing in disguise.  A number of people are using their dedicated HF drivers facing upward to add dispersion and "air".  It may not be as compact and elegant as an all-in-one speaker but arrangements with separate bass, midrange, and HF modules can sound better.

I agree... just less important that the FR is flat vs the midrange.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: roscoe65 on 15 Aug 2017, 07:49 pm
Nope! That dip in the 3-4kHz area is a real bliss to the human ears, mainly woman, this range 3-4kHz is the most sensitive of the human ear and easily irritated by tweeters or any treble sound in this range.

Its not easy made this dip in a FR driver, in tweeters its impossible in the current technology stage, also its very rare find a FR driver with this feature, this dip made the Omega drivers sound like magic IMO.

That resembles the famous 2-3dB "BBC Dip".
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Wind Chaser on 15 Aug 2017, 10:25 pm
Nope! That dip in the 3-4kHz area is a real bliss to the human ears, mainly woman, this range 3-4kHz is the most sensitive of the human ear and easily irritated by tweeters or any treble sound in this range.

Its not easy made this dip in a FR driver, in tweeters its impossible in the current technology stage, also its very rare find a FR driver with this feature, this dip made the Omega drivers sound like magic IMO.

 :scratch: :duh:  :lol:
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Wind Chaser on 16 Aug 2017, 07:28 am
Nope! That dip in the 3-4kHz area is a real bliss to the human ears, mainly woman, this range 3-4kHz is the most sensitive of the human ear and easily irritated by tweeters or any treble sound in this range.

Its not easy made this dip in a FR driver, in tweeters its impossible in the current technology stage, also its very rare find a FR driver with this feature, this dip made the Omega drivers sound like magic IMO.

Okay, I still can't believe you wrote the above but I owe you a better response than a few Emojis.

As to the deleted FR chart, Dave was correct in saying… we don’t “who made the measurements, using what equipment etc....” therefore the “chart” is “misleading at best” and “extremely unfair to Omega.”  Yet you consider that wonky and erratic response as “real bliss” and “magic” .................??
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: DaveC113 on 16 Aug 2017, 02:49 pm
I wouldn't assume the "dip" is there in real life. Further illustration of the dangers of this, even when it's explained that the measurement is likely nowhere near accurate it's still discussed. Sigh...
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Wind Chaser on 16 Aug 2017, 05:59 pm
I wouldn't assume the "dip" is there in real life.

Didn't we all agreed that the measurement was highly questionable and thus remove it?
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: FullRangeMan on 16 Aug 2017, 11:42 pm
Okay, I still can't believe you wrote the above but I owe you a better response than a few Emojis.
I have listening much famous brand speaker as JBL, Wilson, Focal, AvantGarde etc over the years in the local audiophiles homes and the best was the Carver Amazing, so I have bought the Silver edition.
This is the Stereophile measurement:
(https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/Amazfig4.jpg)
A flat chart will sound hot to the human brain, main in the critical 3-5kHz area and listen fatigue will boring the listener in short time.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: Wind Chaser on 17 Aug 2017, 12:43 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167098)

This chart shows has an 11 - 12 db spike between 3 - 5 Khz.

The previous chart (which we have since removed) showed 11 db suck out between 4 - 5 Khz.

That is the exact opposite; a difference of at least 22 dbs within the same range.

Since you stated that "dip in the 3-4 kHz area is a real bliss to the human ears..." What effect does that upward swing have on the human ears?
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: FullRangeMan on 17 Aug 2017, 02:05 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=167098)

This chart shows has an 11 - 12 db spike between 3 - 5 Khz.

The previous chart (which we have since removed) showed 11 db suck out between 4 - 5 Khz.

That is the exact opposite; a difference of at least 22 dbs within the same range.

Since you stated that "dip in the 3-4 kHz area is a real bliss to the human ears..." What effect does that upward swing have on the human ears?
Its amazing how you want Carver Amazing 60 inches dipole ribbon have a dip in the same freq area than a few grams paper cone FR in a BR box.
Its amazing how you dont see the various depressions Amazing have.


Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: oskar on 17 Aug 2017, 02:03 pm
There is nothing in this discussion that is helpful to someone seeking an answer to how various Omega products compare to each other in sound.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: hibuckhobby on 17 Aug 2017, 02:15 pm
Anyone wanting to find such information can get many indicators simply by searching the Omega forum.
Frequency response graphs are next to useless unless more information about testing environment is
provided as well as the sensitivity of the graph gradiations are listed.
Hibuck..
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: mick wolfe on 17 Aug 2017, 03:54 pm
Couldn't agree more. The best "graph" is your ears used in your listening environment. Using this graph I've determined the Omega speakers in my listening room are excellent.
Title: Re: The sound charactoristics of the various Omega speaker series
Post by: roscoe65 on 17 Aug 2017, 06:09 pm
Couldn't agree more. The best "graph" is your ears used in your listening environment. Using this graph I've determined the Omega speakers in my listening room are excellent.

By extension, just because a speaker measures flat doesn't necessarily mean that it sounds good.  One interesting experiment would be to listen to a system that sound great to you and then measure the frequency response in the room.  You may find you like a little unevenness or emphasis in some frequency ranges.