AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => VMPS Speakers => Topic started by: shauk786 on 12 Apr 2020, 08:52 pm
-
Since we are in a pandemic lockdown and staying home, it is time for me to start on a project to build a new pair of V60s. I have the cabinets, bases and all drivers needed to start the build. and that since 2015, sitting in my garage.
First I want to thank John Casler and Dave Housteau for providing me with a lot of valuable information on the V60s, however, we are not sure how the neopanels are wired.
Dave thinks that the top pair, middle pair and bottom pair are wired in parallel but not sure how the pair is wired.
Greatly appreciated if any vmps v60 owner can confirm.
Shaukat
-
Hello Shaukat, what finish are your RM V60? Here is how the bass module is wired, 14ga. Analysis Plus was used. Good luck with assembling Ken
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207195)
-
Zakski288
Thank you for the base connection. Any idea about the Midrange Neopanels?
-
Not really sure, wires are all twisted together, you might have to assemble the mid panels with temporary wires until you think it’s right. Mid section at binding post 4.7 ohms , Bass section 4.1 ohms. Also the tweeter is Aurum Cantus G3si.
-
Thank you again.
I already have all the necessary drivers including the Aurum Cantus G3si. I will advise how the project progresses. :D
Regards.
-
I sent a PM to AC Member, and RM V60 owner, Housteau. Hopefully, he can help with these questions.
-
Stimpy,
Thank you. I have already been in contact with Housteau and received very valuable information already.
Regards,
-
Today, I opened 3 crates. 2 for the wings and 1 for the two bases . some pictures attached.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207333)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207334)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207335)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207336)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207337)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207339)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207340)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207341)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207342)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207343)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207344).
Now the fun starts.
1,) Good to see that the bases come the grills on.
2.) Screw holes already pre-drilled for the neos.
3.) Not provided: Dowels needed to attach wings to bases and will need to be purchased. what type and size did Brian used?
My next step is to install the 12 Neos and the 6 woofers. I need to order some 14 AWG analysis plus wire for the bases.
More to come...
-
Beautiful cabinets...! I'll watch this thread, most definitely.
Now, passive or active crossovers? Do you have the crossovers? A schematic, and if so, could you share it?
Thanks. :D
Oh, my apologies about Housteau. I got so excited about what you were doing, I overlooked what you had already done. Still, I truly hope the proper wiring method can be determined.
Good luck.
-
You've probably already seen these.....
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207346)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207347)
-
It's a big project in several ways, but the end result will be worth it.
-
Stimpy,
I plan the V60s to operate both Active and Passive:
1.) Passive by developing the crossovers for the bass, mid and High
2.) Active on the bass and Mid using the Xilica D4080 and passive on tweeter per Brian Recommendation.
3.) Fully active on all bass, Mid and High using the Xilica. For that I will develop a "digilog cable" with a protection cap and attach to the + treble binding post. (We will see how that will work)
Dave - thanks for chiming in.
While I wait for the ordered parts to arrive, here is a diagram of how I envisage hooking up the Neopanels:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207406)
-
Here is how binding post are on top of base cabinets 1 1/2” holes, 3/4” apart , 1” deep. I think they were done with a hole saw. Ken
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207429)
-
Mine are flush.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207430)
-
Yes,
Ken's is quite elaborate :lol:. For simplicity, I will drill 4 holes similar to Dave's.
I have also noticed while experimenting, there is quite a gap above the neopanel. See picture. Looks like I will need to have some gaskets underneath each neo for a flush look with the cabinet.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207431)
How does yours look?
Also how thick is the damping foam glued to the wings?
-
Mine are flush.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207434)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207435)
-
The foam is 1" x 4".
The wooden wave guides look awesome on this speaker, but really harm the balance in sound. If you are a 2 channel person who sits in the sweet spot, then don't use them. On the other hand if you care about more of a uniform high frequency balance throughout the room, then give them a try.
-
My friend Dave (who has the first pair of RM V-60s and I the second) is absolutely correct. The wave guides really look cool but the speakers sound far, far better without them
-
Hello Shaukat, the top of base cabinet is 1 1/2” thick, you will still have to recess either the top or from the inside, most speaker binding post are only 1 1/2” long. Maybe you can find some longer ones. Ken
-
Ken,
You are correct. It is hard to find any binding posts longer than 1.5 inches. Will need to recess the top inside the base cabinet around the posts location.
-
A small router may do the trick.
-
Dave is right I would use a router. That my choice. Make sure you apply masking tape, maybe two layers to protect your finish. Measure twice , maybe three times, cut once. Shaukat if you lived close I would route for you Ken :popcorn:
-
While I am waiting for my ordered parts to arrive, in the meantime, I have unpacked my neopanels about 26 of them. All of them had the blue insulation on the solder tab at the back of the panel. So I decided to remove all of them. Slow process as not to damage the neopanel as the tab where they are located in pretty fragile. This was successfully done with no damage.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207594)
I measured the resistance of each one of the neos, and wrote then on the back of each panel. Some were 2.6 ohms, some were 2.8 Ohms and a few were 3.0 and 3.3 ohm, .
I selected 12 in matched pairs for the left and right speakers and arranged them in such as way that the left six and right six measure approximately 4.7 ohms for each side. here is the layout for the left side and did same for the right side.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207596)
I marked each Neo from L1 to L6 and similarly R1 to R6 so they can be installed in the right order. Hopefully tomorrow.
More to come
-
Completed installing midrange and treble binding posts on the top of the bases.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207901)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207902)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207903)
2nd base:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207904)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207905)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207906)
More to come.
-
Also how thick is the damping foam glued to the wings?
This is how thick it is on a RM-30. It appears like RM-30 is less recessed than RM-60, but it will give you an idea of material used.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207956)
-
Thank you GeorgeAb.
I had ordered the 1/8in by 3/8in gasket from Parts express along with the 1 inch by 48 in. sonic barrier among other stuffs. Waiting for delivery.
-
I have now completed the back part of the bases.
Base 1
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208160)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208161)
Base 2
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208162)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208163)
Following some delays, I finally got shipment confirmation from Part Express. I am expecting the foam, woofer gaskets and additional binding posts. According to UPS. should arrive on Monday May 4th. So plan is to complete both bases early next week.
How much fiber approximately does each base needs?
I also plan to put some sonic barrier on the walls, and top/bottom in the base cabinets.
More to come.
-
A thing of beauty is a joy forever.
-
Sure looking as if you are doing a GREAT job!
-
Thank you OldScott.
So far so good :D
Hopefully, by tomorrow I will prep the OXO boxes.
-
I worked on the OXO boxes this weekend and glad I made some substantial progress. Here are some picts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208327)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208328)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208329)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208330)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208331)
I believe most of the hard parts are completed now with no damage to the enclosures. Now I am ready to start assembling and installing the drivers into the wings and bases as my needed parts are being delivered tomorrow. :D :D :D.
More to come...
-
Currently working on assembling the drivers in the bases.
Ken or Dave - Are the round grills completely flushed with the cabinet or does it protrude a bit in the hole once the drivers are installed. I have added a 1/8th inch gasket on each woofer and now the grill stick out by 1/8th inch. Just wondering if the woofers are installed without any gasket.
Appreciate it for a quick response.
Shaukat
-
My grills are all flush and can even recess in a bit if pushed in.
-
Yes, It might of been 1/16” but now after being screwed down to base cabinet (compressed), it’s real thin now. I just looked at a roll of speaker gasket I have from Part Express, it’s double the thickness. Ken
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208511)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208512)
-
Thank you both Dave and Ken.
Darn - looks like the 1/8in thickness won't work well. Parts express only had the 1/8in. I just ordered the 1/16 in version from amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBPSF1R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The sad part I have to wait until saturday :(
In the meantime I am starting to assemble the Neos.
Regards,
-
Thank you both Dave and Ken.
Darn - looks like the 3/8in thickness won't work well. Parts express only had the 3/8in. I just ordered the 1/16 in version from amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GBPSF1R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The sad part I have to wait until saturday :(
In the meantime I am starting to assemble the Neos.
Regards,
If you are looking at gaskets on previously installed woofers they will have been compressed.
When I did the RM 30 series 2 upgrade I used a 3m automotive product that are really sticky strings. Non hardening, don’t act like glue. I found out about it in the subwoofer builder forums.
Look for a pic of it in my Series 2 update thread. It might be just the ticket.
BTW, I am very impressed , and maybe a bit envious, of your RM60 project. Super ambitious and no doubts you will be richly rewarded.
-
Thank you G E.
Yes, it is quite an undertaking. And getting there.
I will definitely have a look at your Series 2 update details on the 3 M.
Regards.
-
While we are still on the subject of the bases. Here are pictures of the cables I prepared for midrange, treble and base woofers. For the midrange and treble, I am using the same silver plated copper hookup wires used by Brian and they will be soldered directly to the binding posts.
These are:
Hook-Up Wire, UL 1213, 18 AWG, 19 Strands, Silver-Coated Copper, TFE, Red, Red/Green for midrange
Hook-Up Wire, UL 1213, 20 AWG, 19 Strands, Silver-Coated Copper, TFE, Green, Blue for treble.
For the woofers using analysis plus copper, there are 10 strips, 5 for each base, terminated with crimp terminators to each woofer. I crimped each and used silver solder for secure connection then covered with heat shrink tubing. Notice 4 of the wires have connectors on only one side. the bare ends will be soldered directly to the binding posts.
I have seen on some forums that these type of connectors might degrade the signal. However, I am using them only on the woofers. I can always solder the wires directly on the woofer terminals at a later time after listening sessions.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208550)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208551)
More to come.
-
Today's progress on the build.
The Midrange and Treble wires in the bases are now soldered in both bases.
I also started on installing the norez damping material inside one of the base cabinet. I have completed the top and bottom so far.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208629)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208630)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208631)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208632)
More to come.
-
The two bases are almost completed. I am now waiting on Amazon to deliver today the 1/16th thick gasket I had ordered before I can assemble the woofers. :D :D
All wires inside the cabinet are solded. The damping of the base cabinets is also complete.
Left cabinet
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208675)
Right cabinet
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208676)
Waiting for the woofers and the poly fill insulation to be installed:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208677)
More to come
-
I finally received the 1/16th in thick gasket from Amazon. And it was the perfect size for the woofers in the bases and the grills are nicely flushed with the cabinet.
I have now completed both base cabinets :banana piano: :bounce: as illustrated by the pictures below:
Base 1
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208706)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208707)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208708)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208710)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208712)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208712)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208713)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208714)
Base 2:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208715)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208716)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208717)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208718)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208719)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208720)
I have also measured the resistance at the base terminals and I am glad to report they are 4.1 ohms for both bases.
Now I am ready to tackle on the wings. I will update on progress.
Cheers.
-
Today I started to work on the wings and I have completed installing the neos and tweeter onto the v60. I also used the same 1/16th thick foam gasket on the Neos.
Here is a couple of pictures:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208956)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208958)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208957)
Next step is to complete the wiring and I will start on the crossover build during the week-end.
Ken or Dave, on your v60s, how are the wires secured behind the wings? from the drivers to the binding posts on the base. glue or stuck behind the 4 by 1 inch foam?
Regards,
Shaukat
-
Looks great. All the wires are ran through 3/8” holes in the thin section behind each panel, down the left side Two spots of hot glue.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=208962)
-
Thank you ken.
Will drill a few holes.
-
Today I was hoping to complete both wings but the Neos wiring for one wing took a lot longer than anticipated. Tomorrow will be more or less the same for the other wing. But I am glad I got some major progress going.
I decided not to drill any additional holes on the wings to secure the wires but instead got some heavy duty velcro and it worked perfectly.
Here are a few picts.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209057)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209058)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209059)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209060)
Taking measurement of the resistance, it seems dead on at around 4.5 - 4.6 Ohm
More to come ...
-
Today was as involved as yesterday tackling the other wing. Both are now fully wired for both Neos and tweeter. For simplicity's sake, I decided to run the treble wires on the right side while the mids are on the left.
The good news is that all the wires will be hidden from view when the 4 inches by 1 inch foam will be glued on the wings. I plan to do that last.
Here are the pictures:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209118)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209119)
The crossover build is next...
more to come
-
Wow, It's been 9 days since my last post here. Finally last week, my crossover parts arrived from Parts-express, Meniscus and Parts-connexion. I have decided not to go all out on crossover parts since I believe most of my listening will be through the active Xilica crossover. I was also taken by surprise when the parts came in, due to their sizes and was a bit concerned if they will all fit in the small v60 crossover box. After a few tries, I was able to fit them in.
This is how the crossover box is looking now:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209582)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209583)
As you can see from the pictures I decided to use all copper foil inductors (Goertz Alpha core and Jantzen ) for the midrange and air coils for the tweeter and base. All I got from Meniscus.
Midrange Capacitor bank:
Two 25uf dayton (Precision audio) (Parts-express)
One 1.0 uf dayton (Precision audio) (Parts express)
One 1.5 uf Mundorf Supreme (Parts Connexion)
One 1.0 uf Audyn True Copper Max (Parts Connexion)
One 1.0 uf Duelund RS (Parts Connexion)
Treble Capacitor bank:
Two 0.68 uf Audyn True Copper Max (Parts Connexion)
One 0.01 uf Duelund bypass
Ken or Dave,
Please let me know if I am missing anything here. Hopefully not.
Tomorrow I will start building the other crossover box.
Cheers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209586)
-
Looks Good.
-
The locations of the inductors and orientation can lead to cross-coupling between stages.
Here is an inductor layout guideline that might help.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209633)
-
Hal,
Thank you for your feedback and diagram on the inductors. I have made some slight changes and hotglued all the components. Fortunately the center of the two top inductors are 20.25 cm apart which seems to be ok based on the diagram. I changed the orientation of the bottom right inductor to be on its side. The bottom left inductor was already on its side. Hopefully that would take care of any potential interference issues on the coils.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209687)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209688)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209689)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209690)
Will work on the 2nd crossover tomorrow.
Regards,
-
Finally, the passive crossovers are complete.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209760)
I am almost done with my rmv60 build. I need to cut some 3 inch dowels for the bases to hold the wings, install the end connectors to the wires, glue the foam on the back of the wings, then test.
Hopefully I will be done in a couple of days.
Cheers.
-
Wanted to share how much I have enjoyed following this build. The crossover really came out nice. Nice choice of components; some financial commitment, Deuland, Audyn. The to-do list is quite small in comparison with what you have accomplished.
-
Thank you georgeAb. The encouragement is greatly appreciated.
Today I connected BFA banana connectors to all of the wires, six per each crossover box. I also did the dowels.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209882)
Question to rmv60 owners: What is the best method to use to connect the wings to the base. I believe it is a challenge to align the dowels to the holes. The dowels could easily be broken if not aligned perfectly. How did you get yours on. Your suggestions will be helpful.
Regards,
Shaukat
-
I did mine with them laying down. Once connected I carefully raised them up.
At THE Show we did them vertical with two people lifting and a third positioning the base underneath.
-
Thanks Dave,
I did exactly what you did by laying them down. It worked like a charm.
Guys,
Today, June 3rd. marks the completion of my RM-V60 project. While just looking at the finished speakers, I can only marvel how impressive they look. Like Dave Housteau once said, this is a thing of beauty.
My home theater room is a dark room. So I apologize that the quality of the pictures are not ideal and that they do not represent how nice these speakers actually look.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209914)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209915)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209916)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=209917)
I thank everyone who has read through all my posts since I started the build. Special thanks to everyone who have given me valuable information and advice here on audiocircle and on the phone. Lastly I want to dedicate this build to the maestro himself, Mr. Brian Cheney, May he continue to rest in peace. VMPS still lives on long after his passing.
Long live VMPS.
After the burning period, I will provide some of my impressions and I hope that John Casler can come by for a listen at some point.
Cheers,
Shaukat
-
They look splendid!
I followed this thread through your build and was cheering you on at every milestone.
And now they are finished.
I always feel a little sad when I come to the end of the parts bag and a build is complete. But in this case I’d be ecstatic and very impatient during burn in time.
BTW, if you have a cable cooker with variable settings, run it through your system. I use one of Jim Hagerman’s designs to warm up my system every weekend. This will cut burn in time. An FM tuner tuned between stations will also help.
Can’t wait to get your listening impressions!
-
They look quite majestic. Do you have all the settings needed for your crossover?
-
G. E.
Thank you very much for your nice comments. Unfortunately I do not own a cable cooker. But will look into it.
But I will look into the tuner process. Definitely, I will share my impressions.
Dave,
Regarding the electronic crossover settings, Yes I do have them in one of your email you shared with me a few years back :lol: :lol:. I have 6 of the 25db attenuators on order from parts express. I have 3 vmps largers, two of which will be dedicated to the V60 system and one for home theater duties.
Cheers.
Regards,
Shaukat
-
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/do-audio-speakers-break-in.11898/ (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/do-audio-speakers-break-in.11898/)
-
RSorak,
Very interesting read.
-
Last Monday (June 8th), I decided to start listening to a few of my favorite songs. My system in the meantime was left on for a few days with low volume music playing for about 4 days.
My system is comprised of a Yamaha pre-pro CX-A5100 (ESS 9018 dacs all channels), 2 pairs of Nuforce Ref9 SEs, one pair of which has the TDSS Mods and a Nuprime Dac10H. My source is a ROON based Network server with a Sonore Microrendu with ROON endpoint. My songs library are mainly FLAC, WAVE and DSF files stored on WD Mycloud Network Drives.
So Monday I cranked up the volume, The song "la vie en rose" by Andrea Bocelli was playing. Wow, I could not believe my ears. The vocal clarity was unbelievable as if Andrea was right in the room. The sound stage was huge both in width and depth. With excitement, I cranked songs after songs. I played all of my favorite songs and ended up listening to my music for 4 continuous hours. I must have done something right.
That afternoon, I called John Casler and asked him if he could come and listen to the V60s. He agreed, so I invited him for lunch Wednesday.
Wednesday 10th, John and his lovely and beautiful girlfriend came over. While lunch was being prepared, John and I went to my home theater room and start the listening session. John has a set of cuts he likes to listen by which he can evaluate. He directed me to put on the following songs below:
All listening was done with the passive crossovers and powered full range by a pair of nuforce ref9s.
1.) Roger Waters: The Ballad of Bill Hubbard (Per John, this cut will verify the right phase)
2.) Tears for fears: Sowing the Seeds of Love
3.) Tears for fears: Woman in Chain
4.) Celine Dion: My Heart will go on.
5.) Josh Groban: To Where you are
6.) Black Light Syndrome: Duende
7.) Bela Fleck: Amazing Grace
8.) Infected Mushrooms: I shine
9.) Arthur Fiedler: Fugue in G Minor
10.) Diana Krall: Stop this World
11.) Tchaikovsky: 1812 - Overture
I will let John provide his own opinions on the listening experience. Overall we had a great time and I learnt a few tips from him on what to listen for. The V60s are now here to stay in my system and probably my last pair of speakers for my remaining years.
Cheers
Shaukat
-
Excellent report!
And I'm not surprised you experienced such a wonderful performance. I remember when the V60's were unveiled. Cheney considered it to be his pinnacle achievement.
Yes, they will be long term keepers. That's the way I feel about my RM 30 Series 2. I would like to add the VMPS Larger subwoofer. Although if I had a chance to get a good pair of V60's I'd consider letting go of my RM 30's... or maybe not!
Are you using a subwoofer with them?
-
Hello Shaukat, I warned you were going to love them. Great build! You will enjoy them for a long time to come.
Ken
-
That afternoon, I called John Casler and asked him if he could come and listen to the V60s. He agreed, so I invited him for lunch Wednesday.
Wednesday 10th, John and his lovely and beautiful girlfriend came over. While lunch was being prepared, John and I went to my home theater room and start the listening session. John has a set of cuts he likes to listen by which he can evaluate. He directed me to put on the following songs below:
All listening was done with the passive crossovers and powered full range by a pair of nuforce ref9s.
1.) Roger Waters: The Ballad of Bill Hubbard (Per John, this cut will verify the right phase)
2.) Tears for fears: Sowing the Seeds of Love
3.) Tears for fears: Woman in Chain
4.) Celine Dion: My Heart will go on.
5.) Josh Groban: To Where you are
6.) Black Light Syndrome: Duende
7.) Bela Fleck: Amazing Grace
8.) Infected Mushrooms: I shine
9.) Arthur Fiedler: Fugue in G Minor
10.) Diana Krall: Stop this World
11.) Tchaikovsky: 1812 - Overture
I will let John provide his own opinions on the listening experience. Overall we had a great time and I learnt a few tips from him on what to listen for. The V60s are now here to stay in my system and probably my last pair of speakers for my remaining years.
Cheers
Shaukat
Hi Shaukat,
Yes you have the best RM v60 I have personally heard.
I am sure it is because of your exhaustive attention to detail in their construction, and your research and understanding over the years of Brian's crossovers, and designs.
Not too many people could have accomplished this without your experience and knowledge.
Yes, while I haven't listened recently to some of those reference cuts, they DO display certain qualities and performance of a speaker and yours set new standards.
I know you like them so well, that you will be shipping them to your new home on the Mediterranean.
They are a tribute to one of Brian's GENIUS designs. He never let the moss grow under his feet, always looking for new SONIC DRAGONS to Slay.
I have missed that Sonic Signature and am happy that I recently acquired a pair of RM-40's with the Dorne Dibble Cabinets so I can hear it again.
While some speakers have come close, there just really isn't ANYTHING that does it all.
We also listened to Nils Lofgren "Keith don't go" which sound great on all speakers, but BEYOND great on VMPS Planar Ribbons.
-
It has only just begun. So many times I have been where you are now only to find that over time it kept getting better and better. Just wait until you start playing with and dialing in the active crossover.
-
Hi Shaukat,
Yes you have the best RM v60 I have personally heard.
John you will need to get out more :). Just kidding of course. I have no doubt that they sound absoloutely wonderful. They certainly look stunning.
-
Excellent report!
And I'm not surprised you experienced such a wonderful performance. I remember when the V60's were unveiled. Cheney considered it to be his pinnacle achievement.
Yes, they will be long term keepers. That's the way I feel about my RM 30 Series 2. I would like to add the VMPS Larger subwoofer. Although if I had a chance to get a good pair of V60's I'd consider letting go of my RM 30's... or maybe not!
Are you using a subwoofer with them?
Even though, I have 3 larger subs, I did not have them connected. However, the base output from the v60s were very clean and textured and we could feel it sitting at the sweet spot. Once connected and dialed in, I am sure the improvement will be substantial.
Hello Shaukat, I warned you were going to love them. Great build! You will enjoy them for a long time to come.
Ken
Ken,
Thanks, I definitely will.
It has only just begun. So many times I have been where you are now only to find that over time it kept getting better and better. Just wait until you start playing with and dialing in the active crossover.
Absolutely, Next step is to go active.
In my room, since 2003, I had thoroughly enjoyed my RM-40s. I went through several iterations. My RM40s were from the first batch of MLS cabinets finished on all sides. In 2008, I removed the inside crossovers and added a third pair of binding post for use with OXO. I re-did the crossovers in the external crossover box using better components such as mundorf supreme and copper foil inductors. And added SR-71 soundproofing to the cabinets. Finally in 2012, I move to active using a stock Behringer DCX2496. With each iteration, there were major improvements. My RM40s in my room were at such a level that I was skeptical that the RM-V60s would even match the performance.
Following this week's intense listening sessions to the RMV60s, in my opinion, the resolution and music I am listening to, using passive components easily outperform my RM40s/active Behringer unit combination. There are too many variables. It could be the choice of the passive components, the extra Neopanels of the V60s or the open baffle characteristics. I am not sure.
Now I am sad about two things:
1.) I should have built the RM-V60s a long time ago. I have missed out on years of enjoyment.
2.) I need to think what to do with my RM40s, my companions of 17 years. Up till now, I never thought, they could be replaced. There is always a bigger fish.
-
shauk786,
A beautiful, beautiful build, and a fantastic accomplishment...! Well done. Plus, once you get some playing time on those new crossovers, the sound should continue to improve even further.
Also, any chance of posting the crossover schematic and values? That would be great, if possible? Help future VMPS owners too. Maybe me, as I'd love to build a DIY pair of VMPS Frankenspeakers.
Take care and stay safe,
Stimpy
-
I don't think Shaukat mentioned it, but he did have an additional pair or two of RM v60 cabinets.
Not sure how anyone would build such a speaker, without having all the drivers, but competent DIY's might be able to improvise.
-
John you will need to get out more :). Just kidding of course. I have no doubt that they sound absoloutely wonderful. They certainly look stunning.
:lol:
True that, especially now during this craziness.
Interesting thing, we did not sell a boatload of RM-v60. I think the final list price on the BASIC Model was around $9800, and when you went premium caps, silver wiring, SR-71 damping etc, they went even higher.
You and Paul got some of the first builds, and I placed a Macassar Ebony pair out here in CA to a great aficionado. I am not sure how many Brian sold direct, but it was NOT in RM40 territory (which was too bad since I don't think you could find anything with the sonic virtues, and majesty of these incredible speaker, and their presentation.
-
shauk786,
A beautiful, beautiful build, and a fantastic accomplishment...! Well done. Plus, once you get some playing time on those new crossovers, the sound should continue to improve even further.
Also, any chance of posting the crossover schematic and values? That would be great, if possible? Help future VMPS owners too. Maybe me, as I'd love to build a DIY pair of VMPS Frankenspeakers.
Take care and stay safe,
Stimpy
Thank you.
Here you go.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210368)
-
Interesting thing, we did not sell a boatload of RM-v60. I think the final list price on the BASIC Model was around $9800, and when you went premium caps, silver wiring, SR-71 damping etc, they went even higher.
You and Paul got some of the first builds, and I placed a Macassar Ebony pair out here in CA to a great aficionado. I am not sure how many Brian sold direct, but it was NOT in RM40 territory (which was too bad since I don't think you could find anything with the sonic virtues, and majesty of these incredible speaker, and their presentation.
John, How many of the VLA Subwoofer Towers were sold? Just curious Thanks Jim
-
John, How many of the VLA Subwoofer Towers were sold? Just curious Thanks Jim
Not many. I know I placed about 3-4 pair. Don't know how many Brian sold direct.
Awesome Sub, but just the weight and dimensions alone took them off a lot of lists.
-
Yes John. list price of RM V-60s was $9,800 and as I recall $10,00 for the bass towers. So, in my book, at that time you got the best speaker system on planet Earth for under $20K . I think Brian was one of those rare people who really wasn't interested in making money. He certainly passed up making a fortune by passing up charging "the going price" for his products. He just seemed to want to great build speakers and charge what he felt was a fair price for is work. He once said to Dave and I that "sure you can probably find a better speaker than yours -- for a $100K and up". Later when he elected to issue an additional midbass unit to make up his signature edition, they added $3K a pair. When I found he had just one pair in rosewood which matched mine, I didn't feel I could afford them at the time, but didn't dare pass them up either. Good move 'eh?
-
I know you like them so well, that you will be shipping them to your new home on the Mediterranean.
Definitely John.
My new pair of V60s, LRC, the VMPS dipole surrounds and 2 of my 3 Largers are going to be part of my shipment to Alanya, Turkey.
Unfortunately like many of us, I got an early layoff from work during the Pandemic. But luckily, I had been planning for this eventuality for quite some time now. We bought a beachfront retirement home three years ago in Alanya, turkey right on the mediterranean sea. And NO, I am not turkish. :D. My wife and I decided to take an earlier than usual retirement at 58. We plan to relocate in August.
Yes John. list price of RM V-60s was $9,800 and as I recall $10,00 for the bass towers. So, in my book, at that time you got the best speaker system on planet Earth for under $20K . I think Brian was one of those rare people who really wasn't interested in making money. He certainly passed up making a fortune by passing up charging "the going price" for his products. He just seemed to want to great build speakers and charge what he felt was a fair price for is work. He once said to Dave and I that "sure you can probably find a better speaker than yours -- for a $100K and up". Later when he elected to issue an additional midbass unit to make up his signature edition, they added $3K a pair. When I found he had just one pair in rosewood which matched mine, I didn't feel I could afford them at the time, but didn't dare pass them up either. Good move 'eh?
Oldscott, I believe you are Paul, Right?
As John mentioned above, I have 2 pairs of V60s in their crates remaining. So I will probably bite the bullet and do the "double decker" mid base like yours. I believe what I would need are 6 more woofers wired same as the single base cabinet. And that both cabinets are wired in parallel. if that is the case, then at the binding posts of each base cabinet, negative to negative and positive to positive. Can you confirm? If this is the case, then the only change required to the crossover is to add a 2ohm resistor in series to the woofers and we are in business.
The crossover layout will look like this:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210414)
-
Yes Shauk, I am Paul. I moved a couple of years ago and somehow my old username of pmonroe got lost and I had reset things. Naturally the system would nor let me reset the old username. Go figure. As you know my good friend Dave and I have the first two sets. I ordered mine first but Dave got his first. I think mine got delayed because Brian was doing something different to my OXO. Dave's oxo has three wires coming out whereas mine has six. three of which are not hooked to anything. So I must have asked Brian to do something different. I don't remember as it has been too long ago. I am afraid I can't be too much help on the oxo for the second midbass unit but since you are going to be using an Xilica like Dave it won't be too much of a problem. The midbass units start rolling off at about 65Hz. Brian preferred first order crossovers so the roll off is gentle. He said it was OK to run the unit full range up to 255Hz. So you can just take the fourth output of the Xilica, set it to put out 16 to 255Hz, and hook that to an amp running direct to the second midbass. This is what I do with my dsp 4in and 8out crossover. I am sure you can avoid the extra amplifier and hook both units to one amplifier, but I am not sure how. Dave is far, far more knowledgeable than I so he may be able to help. It should not be difficult. I just used the second amplifier as it was a quick hookup and I am knee deep in amps (should start my own HiFi store). Sorry not to be of more help. I envy your residence in Turkey. I found it to be a fascinating country.
-
So I will probably bite the bullet and do the "double decker" mid base like yours.
Hello Shaukat, don’t wait to bite the bullet. I just added my second bases to verify the size. In my room the sound is another step up, and that was with no woofers installed yet. Ken
-
Since the bass module measures approx. 4.1 ohms each, I would connect two in series for just over an 8 ohm load
-
Paul,
Thank you for your input. You have answered my question on the OXO. :lol:. The probable reason why you have six outputs instead of three is that Brian built the flexibility for you to use either one base unit or both base units from a passive perspective.
I have no issues for programming the Xilica to use with either one base unit or 2 base units. Using one amp to run both base units should not be an issue as well. However, that will have to wait until I am in Turkey.
My contractor confirmed today, he will start work at my California home this Friday (Painting, Renovating and Preparing the house for renting out) so I need to tear down my home theater room and re-crate my rmv60s for shipment.
Paul, keep enjoying your system. I am sure it is one of the best in the world: RMV60s with VLAs, double-decked mid base and all active. Few of us can only dream of owning such speaker systems.
Hello Shaukat, don’t wait bite the bullet sooner than later, I just tried my second bases on to verify the size. In my room the sound is a other step up, and that was not with the woofers installed. Ken
Wonderful Ken. Looking like my shipping cost is going to increase with the additional bases. :lol:. My mind is made up. I will do it.
Since the bass module measures approx. 4.1 ohms each, I would connect two in series for just over an 8 ohm load
Dave, that will work as well.
Ken, how are you planning to do yours (Series or Parallel)? I do not believe it matters if you are using the active crossover and separate amps for each base unit.
Regards,
Shaukat
-
Ken, how are you planning to do yours (Series or Parallel)? I do not believe it matters if you are using the active crossover and separate amps for each base unit.
Regards,
Shaukat
Not sure, once the woofers are in I will wire them ( Series and/or Parallel ) ? Ken
-
I have put my RM40s for sale.
Refer to:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170877.0
However, I have been thinking:
This would be a deal of a lifetime for a VMPSer who would like to upgrade to the RM-V60. I have an extra set of RMv60 cabinets in Macassar Ebony (Brand New, not opened) in their crates. The only issue is the availability of neopanels. I am willing to sell the Neos in my RM40s (8 of them) together with the V60 cabinets for $2250.00. So someone who has extra neos, or rm30 or rm40 would be able to get the 12 neos needed and upgrade to a brand new V60. The 6 woofers, I believe can be sourced as special order from Misco. I have a feeling that once you factor other expenses such as shipping cost, the woofers, etc, the total would be about or less than $4500.00 (Anyway food for thought - If anyone interested and want to talk about it, let me know.
Regards,
Shaukat
-
I wondered what you were going to do with the extra pair.
Your RM40’s are beautiful. You shouldn’t cannibalize them even for RM60.
PM sent with question
-
I have modified my ad on audiocircle for my RM40s with the addition of one of my VMPS Larger Sub at no extra cost.
Regards,
Shaukat
-
I have started to disassemble the home theater room yesterday as our painter guy is starting work tomorrow.
Here is a picture but it does show how majestic the V60s are.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=210573)
-
.
-
I had some questions to V60 owners concerning the acoustic foam dampening material on the back of the wings. From a 2007 post from Brian, “The V 60 is an open-back, damped reverse horn which I set for about 50% dipole operation, i.e. 10" deep foam damper flush with the back edge of the wings.”
Based on this information I assume the foam is 5” wide on each side of the wing and it looks like ¾” or 1” thick and I’m guessing 60 pores per inch (ppi) foam based on Ken’s pic at post 12. Can someone confirm thickness? Also is it glued or Velcro tape to affix to wing, so it can be removed? Any insight would be appreciated.
-
George,
Sonic barrier from Parts express: thickness 1 inch. width 4 inches and runs down from top panel to bottom panel velcro'ed on each wing. Also if you want a damper to fine tune in your room, you can create one using some acoustic foam in a semi circle shape and placed between the sonic barrier on each wing. In my case I use some velcro for both to secure them in place.
Shaukat
-
I no longer have mine. My V-60's are used as a full dipole. However, from what I remember this foam was wedge shaped at 10 inches thick. It would fit pushed up against the backs of those foams you saw the pictures of, or pulled back to be flush with the backs of the wings. When pulled back it had gaps on the sides. They were free standing on the tops of the V-60 base.
-
George, I have some pictures of the wedge somewhere. Ken
-
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211507)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211507)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211507)
-
Here are more pictures of mine
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=211508)
-
George. from my pictures in the two posts above you can see these are wedge "W" shaped units of foam. I do not know what type foam was used. Perhaps John Casler or even Jim Romayn may have some idea. The two sections are 30 inches tall with a hard board reinforcement section between. The wide, or back section is 9 3/8 inches, the length running to the tip the "W" is 8 1/2 inches. The ^ shaped indentation is 4 1/4 inches.
This speaker is an enigma being part reverse horn, part line array, part dipole, and part who knows what. Legend has it that it was conceived over dinner at CES/T.H.E.Show one evening by Brian and James Bongormio (sp) on a paper napkin. Knowing James's knack for innovation. I would wager that the basic concept was mostly his and that the final design completion was Brains.
-
The more I think on it the more I feel that the hardwood section was on the bottom.
Paul
-
Paul,
That is a very beautiful setup. Once in Turkey, i will need to incorporate some of that aesthetic display.
Awesome.
-
I am so glad I asked the question as Paul provided a picture of his system. Since I am far from a poet, I will just say “wow”. Concur an interesting speaker design for sure.
Thanks for the responses, I have my answer.
Lots of progress on the V60. On bases, used a Dremel with router bit to remove the necessary material for the binding posts, difficult due to lack of clearance. Built up the Analysis plus wires, cut and painted the crossover and base binding post back plates. All fingers intact, the Dremel did eat my shirt sleeve :). Most of the supplies arrived today. Binding posts are back-ordered, but I have my hands full.
-
The more I think on it the more I feel that the hardwood section was on the bottom.
Paul
That sounds about right. Not sure where Brian sourced that foam, but the initial foam was full length and not in two sections. I think he glued them together.
The wood base on Paul's, was due to the instability of the column. Also the prototype actually had a long pin/wire attached at the top to push into the foam and hold it in place. At the first show, we found it was needed to keep the column from falling back.
As Shaukat mentioned Brian also placed blackhole five at various places in the inside of the height of the horn, so that when you pushed it all the way in for MONO operation the column compressed into the BH5 to hold it.
At the shows in the smaller rooms, we went Monopole. When we used it in the large rooms we went full Dipole.
However the FUNCTION of the Horn and the DAMPING Column were (as far as I know) unique, and basically an innovation specific to Brian's unusual designs.
The whole idea was to have the ability to have either a MONOPOLE and a DIPOLE and depending on how much you opened the side openings of the column, everything in between. This was accomplished by moving the damping column forwards or backwards allowing varying degrees/levels of the back wave to the front wall. (behind the speaker)
While this was not likely discussed enough, or explained as well as it should have been (my fault for not posting extensively) it is a phenomenal design feature adding INCREDIBLE flexibility to the speaker in all applications and rooms.
While few realized the GENIUS that was Brian Cheney, he employed several adjustable means in his designs.
Such as:
1) adjustable L-pads to allow tailoring the balance between drivers
2) putty adjustments to tune the bass drivers with the passive radiators
3) and in the RM v60 the adjust ability between Monopole to Dipole
-
Just to verify I am on the right track from V60 owners, there is 1” thick foam 4” wide that comes to the inner edge of the inner V the length of the neos, like this?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212073)
Should have last of parts this week as binding posts and banana plugs were back-ordered. Everything else is done.
-
The foam even went behind the tweeter.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212076)
-
The foam even went behind the tweeter.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212076)
This photo shows the skewer pin I mentioned earlier at the top, that allowed you to skewer the tall foam column to be more stable.
-
The foam even went behind the tweeter.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212076)
Perfect, exactly what I wanted to see. From the picture I can see the distance between foam, a tad narrower then what I have. Probably over thinking this, but good to have a baseline.
-
Getting close, should be able to listen to my RM-V60's tomorrow.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212260)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212261)