AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Omega Speaker Systems => Topic started by: Canada Rob on 20 Jan 2016, 05:27 am
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Wolf Ear Audio is the name of this new company, and Andrew Rintoul is the owner/designer/builder, and web dude. The amplifier is an EL84/6P15P-EV SET.
Check out the website for description and specs. http://www.wolfearaudio.ca/ (http://www.wolfearaudio.ca/)
As you can see from the picture I now have one and love it. The pictures don't do the custom built chassis justice - it's beautifully made. Anodized and powder coated heavy gauge aluminum. The chassis is well vented and the amp runs quite cool, especially when one sees how much heavy duty North American iron is under the deck.
What I love the most is the sound. Coupled with a Schiit Modi 2 DAC, Klipsch RPW10 sub, and Super 3i's, the sound is...is...is....
Resolution: clear, transparent, and very detailed. Fingers on strings, vibrating double bass strings, breathing, tongue movement, space, air, etc.
Speed: As fast as anything I've heard.
Tone: Warm, sweet, and organic. Typical of a great single driver/SET system.
Soundstage: Deep, wide, layered, highly focused with air around the performers.
Frequency extension: With a my sub, a clean, "non room gain" 35 - 20,000Hz yet with that magic midrange.
This is a very affordable system that will run with gear costing many times more.
The amp is only $1600 CAD (about $1100 USD). Should be $3500 USD
The speakers in EKO finish are only $595 a pair. Should be $3000 USD
The Sub was a giveaway at $400 USD, and I'm sure there's other budget giant killers out there. HSU Research is one that comes to mind.
The $99 DAC, well it's a Schiit - compare at $500+.
This system is a fine example of what can be had in the "Audio Underground" Total price of the main pieces is $2194 USD. A person could spend $20,000 on a system in the mass market "above ground" and not match this system for sound quality...and in many cases, build quality.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135504)
I hope Andrew doesn't mind me using images from his website.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135505)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135506)
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Full range drivers with a sub sounds cheap,can you reduce the price so i order one... :lol:
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Cool. As a Canadian ex pat, it would be nice to have a little piece of Canada. I suspect we'll see more products like this as the dollar slides.
I'd be interested to hear how this stacks up against a Decware Rachael, for example. This is cheaper, but not as good looking.
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Thank you Rob for the lovely review!
Cool. As a Canadian ex pat, it would be nice to have a little piece of Canada. I suspect we'll see more products like this as the dollar slides.
I'd be interested to hear how this stacks up against a Decware Rachael, for example. This is cheaper, but not as good looking.
It's what is on the inside that counts ;)
Though I personally love minimalist designs myself (which is why I designed it that way, since I don't like the look of transformers sticking outside the chassis).
Most manufacturers don't use choke filtered power supplies (because of cost) and I don't know of any that use entirely film caps for the power supply as this one does because they usually cost over 10x as much per capacitor and are about 20x the size (other than the size and cost, film caps perform considerably better than any electrolytic, plus they never dry out!). I intend to implement these in any of my designs because it does nothing but increase performance. If you are more interested in the design, you can always message me.
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It would be interesting to see the interior of this amp.
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It would be interesting to see the interior of this amp.
Yep, I'll upload a picture tonight or tomorrow.
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For those of us old-tech timers who still use a CD player and a tuner, the single set of inputs is a deal killer :(
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where are you located?
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For those of us old-tech timers who still use a CD player and a tuner, the single set of inputs is a deal killer :(
I'll keep that in mind when I do a revision later on. Would three inputs be enough?
where are you located?
I am located in Siksika, Alberta, Canada
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As I've been looking at affordable SETs, and the limited number of inputs is pretty widespread. Two inputs would be good, three even better (could then add turntable to cd player and tuner).
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Nice to see!
On our SE EL84 journey from Decware Zen copy to what we ended up with, we figured using poly caps in the power supply made a huge difference. We also found that moving from Triode wired to Schade wiring we went from 1.5 w to 3.9 w with no net loss in fidelity. How easy is it to go under the hood and tweak things? Or, i expect you are making these on a small scale, so are you willing to do custom builds?
How are you using the front end tube? Looks like you have 2 more triode sections than you need.
dave
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Nice to see!
On our SE EL84 journey from Decware Zen copy to what we ended up with, we figured using poly caps in the power supply made a huge difference. We also found that moving from Triode wired to Schade wiring we went from 1.5 w to 3.9 w with no net loss in fidelity. How easy is it to go under the hood and tweak things? Or, i expect you are making these on a small scale, so are you willing to do custom builds?
How are you using the front end tube? Looks like you have 2 more triode sections than you need.
dave
It would relatively easy to mod the amp if you so desired, however it would be dangerous unless you knew what you were doing and it would void the warranty.
The second triode section is a cathode follower driver stage (it provides no gain) for low distortion and output impedance. There are no unused triode sections and no feedback is used (I assume what you mean by Schade wiring is a pentode using anode feedback?).
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It would relatively easy to mod the amp if you so desired, however I wouldn't warranty any custom work (if I did do it, which we could discuss in e-mail).
cool.
The second triode section is a cathode follower driver stage (it provides no gain) for low distortion and output impedance. There are no unused triode sections and no feedback is used (which I assume is what you mean by Schade wiring, a pentode using anode feedback?).
Is the CF sitting on top of a CCS? How much difference do you figure the CF makes? EL84 is a pretty easy tube to drive.
Yes schade is anode to anode feeback, EL84 wired as a pentode.
dave
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cool.
Is the CF sitting on top of a CCS? How much difference do you figure the CF makes? EL84 is a pretty easy tube to drive.
Yes schade is anode to anode feeback, EL84 wired as a pentode.
dave
I pm'd you since I do not want to derail the thread here.
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Thanx.
dave
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Congratulations on the new amplifier. Is this a true amp or an integrated? Not sure what the front center knob is for :scratch:.
NB
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It's a true amp with a volume pot or optional stepped attenuator. It has no preamp section, but runs direct from source. It would work fine with a separate preamp though.
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......The second triode section is a cathode follower driver stage (it provides no gain) for low distortion and output impedance. There are no unused triode sections and no feedback is used....
What is the output impedance at each of the taps?
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Deleted
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What is the output impedance at each of the taps?
The output impedance is around 2.5 at the 8 ohm tap and 1.25 at the 4 ohm tap.
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The output impedance is around 1.5 at the 8 ohm tap and 0.75 at the 4 ohm tap.
Thanks. That's lower than expected for not having any global or local feedback. How do you get it so low?
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Thanks. That's lower than expected for not having any global or local feedback. How do you get it so low?
Sorry, I actually gave the wrong numbers there. 2.5 at the 8 ohm tap and 1.25 at the 4 ohm tap. I was looking at my notes for a different amp I am working on, but that amps a secret for now ;)
Keep in mind those figures above are worst case scenario, and in practice it is usually a bit lower than that.
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This is cheaper, but not as good looking.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I love the minimalist look of this amp and the logo is so cool. I agree the Decware amps look great, but the Kitoki has all it's connections in the back making for a really clean installation. The Decware can look like a patient on life support with it's top mounted connections depending on the cabling being used. Another advantage of the Kitoki design is ease of packaging, like a solid state amp.
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Thanks. That's lower than expected for not having any global or local feedback. How do you get it so low?
I run the output tubes at about their max specs, which causes the plate resistance to be a bit lower than usual, lowering the overall output impedance. The 6P15P-EV tubes can really take a beating (and they're cheap), so it just made sense to me :)
Hope that helps
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Congrats on your new venture from one Albertan to another.
I have a local (Edmontonian) designed SET amp, but you never know.....
Good luck! :thumb:
Perry
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It would be interesting to see the interior of this amp.
Here's the pic of its guts as promised (don't mind the bad image quality. I'm a terrible photographer). There are many components you can't see as well because they are covered (and the capacitors kind of blend in with the chassis).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135655)
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That is a well-packed chassis sir, and I applaud your entry into the SET amp industry. It can never have too many marques. The mainstream hifi world needs more affordably-priced class A SET amps around to challenge its collective assumption that solid state amps are the last word in musicality.
I would love to have a Kitoki of my own someday but that would have to wait as one of my 3 SET amps is an EL84, still a youngish eight months old. Nevertheless I will be keeping tabs on the Wolf Ear Audio site from now on. :)
ps: very cool logo. :thumb:
LOL at your Decware 'patient on life support' quip, Rob. I do find the Kitoki's hidden transformers make for a nice clean minimalist look. My EL84 already has its power transformers sticking out on top, so if I needed a second EL84 amp I would pick the Kitoki over the Decware.
cheerSS
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The venting of the Kitoki chassis is very good, along with being black heavy gauge aluminum makes for a pretty cool running amp considering it's class A SET. Also it's very quiet, both physically and over the speakers.
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Another interested participant ..looking good
Welcome to Audio Circle
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I run the output tubes at about their max specs, which causes the plate resistance to be a bit lower than usual, lowering the overall output impedance. The 6P15P-EV tubes can really take a beating (and they're cheap), so it just made sense to me :)
Hope that helps
Thanks. If one gets to the DC area, I'd like to audition it. Capfest? Are you making the stepped attenuator?
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Thanks. If one gets to the DC area, I'd like to audition it. Capfest? Are you making the stepped attenuator?
Yep, I make all my attenuators from scratch.
I don't get to visit the States often, but maybe someone near there will buy one .
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Any chance of a tour like is happening with the FleaWatt? I'd love to participate. I'm more of a tube guy, have a Dennis Had SEP, but have never listened to a SET in my system.
........Peter
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Any chance of a tour like is happening with the FleaWatt? I'd love to participate. I'm more of a tube guy, have a Dennis Had SEP, but have never listened to a SET in my system.
........Peter
That isn't really something I am willing to do at the moment, but if I change my mind, I'll let everyone know.
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Heck yes. We need more sanely priced tube gear in the audio world. :)
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One thing I forgot to mention, Andrew used Alnico Monitors when voicing the Kitoki.
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Any chance of a tour like is happening with the FleaWatt? I'd love to participate. I'm more of a tube guy, have a Dennis Had SEP, but have never listened to a SET in my system.
........Peter
I thought about this a bit more and decided that I would like to do this. I started registration for anyone interested in joining a small product tour here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140086.0
Users with Omega speakers get first priority. I highly recommend this for the Alnico and Desktop Monitors.
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I highly recommend this for the Alnico and Desktop Monitors.
I don't recall my Super 3i's sounding any better on any amp since hooking them up to the Kitoki. If the Kitoki works well with the Super 3 Desktop, it will also work well with any RS5 based speaker, including 4 ohm OutLaw 1.5 speakers. Also, the wonderful results I got from the Super 7 Monitor MK2's when hooked up to my Decware with the same power, it should be a no brainer Super 7's would be a great match with the Kitoki.
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I thought about this a bit more and decided that I would like to do this. I started registration for anyone interested in joining a small product tour here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=140086.0
Users with Omega speakers get first priority. I highly recommend this for the Alnico and Desktop Monitors.
Thanks very much Andrew! I posted in that thread to get in line. Looking forward to experiencing your work.
........Peter
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Quick update:
The amp is on its way to me. Since it came from Canada into the US, it takes a bit longer due to customs clearance. Tracking says it should arrive tomorrow. I will have a couple of days to give it some hours. Andrew tells me the amp has 48 hours so far but all tubes are brand new. So my review will probably be towards the end of this coming weekend.
Andrew, if you are reading here, a question..... I won't get into extensive tube rolling and will mostly listen to the amp with your tube selections. My tube amp is SE pentode and I don't have any tubes compatible with the rectifier or output tubes in the Kitoki (probably a good thing for this tour!). I do have 6922/6DJ8 drivers though. The only driver I would really be interested in trying is the Russian 6N23P. I just want to make sure that is safe in your amp. I've been running it in my Inspire for a year or more (Dennis supplied a 6N1P originally).
Thanks! ........Peter
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Quick update:
The amp is on its way to me. Since it came from Canada into the US, it takes a bit longer due to customs clearance. Tracking says it should arrive tomorrow. I will have a couple of days to give it some hours. Andrew tells me the amp has 48 hours so far but all tubes are brand new. So my review will probably be towards the end of this coming weekend.
Andrew, if you are reading here, a question..... I won't get into extensive tube rolling and will mostly listen to the amp with your tube selections. My tube amp is SE pentode and I don't have any tubes compatible with the rectifier or output tubes in the Kitoki (probably a good thing for this tour!). I do have 6922/6DJ8 drivers though. The only driver I would really be interested in trying is the Russian 6N23P. I just want to make sure that is safe in your amp. I've been running it in my Inspire for a year or more (Dennis supplied a 6N1P originally).
Thanks! ........Peter
All of those drivers you mentioned are compatable (the 6N23P is pretty much a copy of the 6DJ8).
Also, feel free to keep for more than just a couple days (at least a week), since it took so long in transit to get to you.
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Thanks Andrew!
According to the tracking, the mail carrier has it for delivery today. :)
......Peter
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AND..... A Couple Pics would be great too :green:
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(Sorry for the duplication in posts for those reading both here and on the Wolf Ear thread in the Industry section.)
I've been letting the amp and tubes break in. Did some listening last night. Initial indications are that we have a very special little amp here! I'll write more in some days.
In the first photo, you can see the Kitoki sitting where my Inspire was. The Inspire is observing from the shelf on the right, looking worried! And, of course, my beloved new Omega "speaker system." :beer:
Initially, I have the Kitoki taking the place of the Inspire without other changes except for gain levels. This means I have the Inspire LP-2 pre in the chain. Volume is all the way up on the solid feeling stepped attenuator in the Kitoki. Volume is controlled by my Cambridge Audio Azur 851N streamer/DAC (middle shelf on the left). I will later give it a try with the DAC in full output mode, no pre, controlling the volume with the Kitoki (no remote though).
I also have the signal split before the amp by the Marchand XM66 active xover at 110Hz (behind the tray of tubes). So the Kitoki is getting a line level signal from 110Hz up. The self-powered woofer modules cover 50-110 and the subs 50 and lower. I will later also try running the SAM's full range bypassing the woofer modules to see how the amp does on its own.
The Omegas are being fed from the 8ohm output. I'll also try the 4ohm output along the way.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137484)
In this second photo, more of a close up. You can see the second set of output tubes that Andrew provided behind. The EL84's are warmer/smoother. The 6P15P-EV's are more forward. Good contrast and covers those of us that prefer each of the primary presentations.
Note the multi-colored interconnects to the amp. These are provided by Andrew to try as well. He has them at custom lengths at reasonable prices on his site. Very well made and attractive looking, IMO. He also provided a matching power cord, though I do not have that implemented. The speaker cables are DIY made from the currently trendy vintage WE11GA (heavier gauge version of the WE16GA).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137485)
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My Kitoki shipped with NOS 6N15N-EB power tubes (the same tube type that came with my Super Zen) that had PAANO on the cold war era box. They sound very good. Today I bought from a music store up the valley a matched set of Mesa Boogie branded EL84 power tubes.
Definitely an improvement across the board, especially in the soundstage depth department. Very holographic, focused, and 3D (the other tube is too, but this one refines it). Nothing lost from the other tube, but thus far on first impression, everything gained. :thumb:
Peter,
It looks like you've got a set of Psvane or Shuguang gold pin EL84's sitting on a box. If so, I'm sure anxious to get your impressions on those.
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Rob,
Do mean the two EL84's sitting on the black project box behind the amp? If so, those were provided with the amp. I don't recall which is which in the photo - one pair in the amp, one pair on that black box. One is the 6P15P-EV (6N15N-EB or 6P15N-EV?), the other Tung-Sol EL-84. I don't have any of my own EL-84's as my Inspire is SEP rather than SET.
Turnabout: I'm curious, if you are able, about comparison between the Kitoki and the Super Zen. Thnks
.....Peter
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I'm curious, if you are able, about comparison between the Kitoki and the Super Zen. Thnks
.....Peter
I'm on the list for the Kitoki and I've got the Zen UFO as my main reference amp. I'll definitely be able to do a comparison.
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I'm on the list for the Kitoki and I've got the Zen UFO as my main reference amp. I'll definitely be able to do a comparison.
Good to hear! I'll look forward to that.
.......Peter
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I had a very enjoyable weekend! Here is the first formal review from the tour. :thumb: I look forward to reading others'. The amp is packed up and ready for instructions from the mother ship for its next destination.
Andrew, let me know if there is a particular place you would like this review. I am also posting it over on the Industry circle thread. ..........Peter
Oh, an amp tour. What a fun opportunity to hear a different amp and compare to my current favorite. The difficulty is that this favorite is one I thought would be my last amp ever! These tours sure can be disruptive!
Mine is a hand crafted single ended pentode designed and built by the famous Dennis Had, an Inspire KT-150. The amp on tour, Wolf Ear Audio "Kitoki" is a single ended triode designed and built by Andrew Rintoul in Alberta Canada. Shouldn't be that different! Source is the Cambridge Audio Azur 851N, their flagship streamer and DAC. Speakers are Omega Super Alnico Monitors at 93db sensitivity.
As some Omega Circle participants may know, I have a complex system with the Inspire preamp, a Marchand line level 2-way crossover, active woofer modules, active subs, and powered supertweeters. Testing was with all different combos and is described mostly in comparison to what I am familiar with. I did also test with source directly input into the amp run full range to Omegas run full range with no woofers/sub/tweeters and compared to the Inspire with the same configuration.
Well... At the very least, the Kitoki matches the Inspire. In one primary way, the Kitoki shines, in one the Inspire. Both amps are to die for.
The Kitoki added "sparkle" to my system that wasn't there prior. I don't know if it is simply higher extension or something different, but the knock of a drum stick on a rim, the soft cymbal strike, etc., are more prominent and without adding the slightest bit of irritation. It may be that the Kitoki does a bit better in imaging/realism, but too close to be confident in that conclusion. The Inspire has a bit more body or fullness. Perhaps this is the inverse of the sparkle and imaging advantage the Kitoki seems to have.
The Inspire is currently set up to run at 10 wpc with vintage British KT-77 output tubes (it can be as little as 5 wpc depending on the choice of output tubes). The Kitoki is a modest 1.5 wpc. The gain difference was negligible and I never felt the amp strain. I am not a metal or trance fan, so did not push its capabilities in that way. Volume was easy with a nominal level of 80db (peaks higher) in my fairly large room (4600 cf) and listening distance of 11 ft.
I have largely given up the describing fine audio like fine wine. All of those descriptions have started to run together and sound largely meaningless. It all comes down to that sense of "just right"; that feeling that there is nothing in particular that needs to change, sounds not quite good enough or is distracting. The primary variables for me, other than that most important one, are general smoothness, warm vs. cool, evenness throughout the frequency range, extension up and down, imaging definition, size of soundstage and musicality (technically, probably PRaT).
So, the primary criteria is met! This amp sounds right. When I listen and relax, it is transporting. There isn't anything that calls my attention to a need for change. When I listen more critically, I find:
General Smoothness - Excellent - no irritation whatsoever
Warm vs. Cool - Pretty balanced really - I wouldn't categorize it as either warm or cool. However, changing the output tubes from the supplied Tung-Sol EL-84's to the vintage Russian 6N15P-EV demonstrated that the tonal quality can be altered with tube choice. I found the EL-84's slightly warmer and my preference over the 6N15P's.
Evenness throughout the frequency range - Excellent
Extension up and down - Up - the nicest, smoothest, sparkliest top end I have ever heard in a tube amp. Down - bottom end is pleasing, though not quite as full as the Inspire I compared with.
Imaging definition - Excellent
Size of soundstage - Slightly smaller and more focused than the Inspire, though makes up for it in the sense of immediacy and intimacy.
Musicality - Excellent
Andrew told me that these tubes are the basic tubes supplied when purchasing the amp (along with the vintage Russian 6N1P-EV drivers and EZ81 rectifier). Since my existing amp is a SEP, I didn't have any alternative power tubes to roll in. I imagine some improvement could be found with carefully chosen EL-84's or equivalents. I also do not have any alternative rectifiers that would be compatible. I did, however, try alternative drivers: Russian 1975 Voskhod "Rocket" 6N23P - (single wire, gray shields). These were an improvement over the 6N1P's just as they were in the Inspire and my opinions are based on using the 6N23P/TS-EL84/EZ81 combo.
Other miscellaneous things...... The volume control is a stepped attenuator which is very solid with prominent clicks. I believe this is an upgrade over the stock Alps Blue Velvet. Fit and finish is excellent. Overall aesthetics are subjective. Andrew prefers a cleaner, more modern look than is traditional with tube amps. Transformers are contained within the chassis. The tubes are distributed in a logical manner on the top surface and take prominent visual attention without anything around or behind them. The resulting tube glow is very nice.
Supplied with the amp were Wolf Ear Audio made power cable and interconnects. The interconnects can be purchased on the website in various lengths and at reasonable prices. They are solidly made and very pretty (again subjective).
Bottom line opinion is that this is an amp that anyone not needing more power would likely love! I don't know how it would do with multi-driver speakers, but it is a match made in heaven with the Omega Super Alnico Monitors - single drivers at 93db. At $1600 CAD (currently $1170 US), it's a great buy.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137484)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137485)
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(http://smiley.nowdararpour.ir/other2/15.gif)
Andrew,
I've got a question for you. My Inspire has a single driver (6922/6DJ8, etc.). The Kitoki has two. Are there particular advantages to the two driver design in a SET? Is the single driver design done using half of the tube for each channel?
Thanks........... Peter
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(http://smiley.nowdararpour.ir/other2/15.gif)
Andrew,
I've got a question for you. My Inspire has a single driver (6922/6DJ8, etc.). The Kitoki has two. Are there particular advantages to the two driver design in a SET? Is the single driver design done using half of the tube for each channel?
Thanks........... Peter
Yeah, I'll explain without trying to be too technical.
Basically, the typical way of making the driver stages in amps is to have one triode section of the tube do both the gain and driving of the output tube (a typical driver tube such as the 6DJ8 has two triode sections per tube). Mine has one triode section for the gain, and another that provides no gain, but delivers all the current/drive and a very low output impedance to the output tube. The advantages of this are lower distortion and better damping between stages. The disadvantage is slightly more power consumption and more tubes required.
Hope that helps!
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Yeah, I'll explain without trying to be too technical.
Basically, the typical way of making the driver stages in amps is to have one triode section of the tube do both the gain and driving of the output tube (a typical driver tube such as the 6DJ8 has two triode sections per tube). Mine has one triode section for the gain, and another that provides no gain, but delivers all the current/drive and a very low output impedance to the output tube. The advantages of this are lower distortion and better damping between stages. The disadvantage is slightly more power consumption and more tubes required.
Hope that helps!
Very clear, thanks. It does sound like two drivers would make for a cleaner sound with more isolation between circuits. Very likely that was some of what I was hearing that was different than the Inspire, I imagine.
.......Peter
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Duplicate post for those who are not following the Kitoki thread in the Industry Introductions area:
I’ve a had a great time with this Kitoki amp, and have been fortunate to be able to spend quite a bit of time with it since the next person on the list is on vacation until the end of April. For a few years now, my reference amp has been the little 2 Watt Decware Zen powering Omega Alnico and RS5 monitors. It’s been a match made in heaven with a lot of synergy, and even though I’ve had numerous amps pass through my listening room the last couple of years, at the end of the day, the Zen always seemed to stay on top.
First some notes, my listening room is small at 10*12. Having a small room, I quickly learned that I’m never going to be able to have any sort of visceral bass in this space, which is fine because I’m not a bass head anyways. My priorities are midrange purity, imaging and transparency and these are what I focused on in this writeup.
The Kitoki is the first amp I’ve had that competes with the Zen. The differences are so slight that there is no way I could pick one over the other. Both are transparent, fast, dynamic, detailed and image like crazy. For a first product, Wolf Ear Audio is showing an awful lot of promise.
When I unpacked the amp and set it on the shelf, I instantly got an “oh no” it’s broken experience. Before turning it on, I wanted to turn the volume all the way down and as I grabbed the nob to gently turn it, nothing happened. It felt like it was locked in place. Nope, it was just that the clicks on this volume control are so tight, with such solid and positive steps that you really did need to grip it and turn it. I liked it!
For the first time ever, when putting an amp in my system, I couldn’t tell within a minute what the differences between it and the Zen were. After some hours of play, I did start to get a handle on where they differed, which for me, was primarily in the upper midrange. On some female vocals, the little Zen can exhibit the tiniest amount of glare. Is it a fault of the Zen or the recording? I don’t know. However with the Kitoki in the system, I soon noticed that when this glare was present, the Kitoki took it away; all of the sudden, some recordings with the slightest bit of glare, now sounded smooth and perfect. No hint of any glare at all was present. However, the flip side was that occasionally, with for instance some male vocals, I’d lose just the slightest bit of raspiness that would really make a vocalist come alive; things were smoother, but ever so slight. I’d compare it with sitting a couple of rows back from a live acoustical (non miked) performance when you were already near the front.
I’ve got a Decware Mini Torii using 6V6/6L6 tubes that does a wonderful job on female vocals, making them seem even smoother than the Kitoki, but there are times with the male vocals that it just sucks the life out of them too much making some recordings unenjoyable. The Kitoki never did that; I never had the desire to switch it out.
Another area which the Kitoki shined was its quietness. No question, solid state or tubed, this is the quietest amp I’ve had in my listening room. With an amp connected and plugged in, I’ve always been able to hear (with my ear next to the driver) either the slightest bit hum or a slight hiss. It’s the nature of dealing with high efficiency single driver speakers. The first time I tried this with the Kitoki, I was shocked. I didn’t hear a sound. I actually looked over to see if the amp was on. That was a first in my experience. Later I tried the same experiment in ultra-quiet early hours of the morning, and I could just barely sense the slightest bit of hum.
During my listening hours with the Kitoki, on more than a few times, I said to myself. “I think this amp might be giving me a little more of the “blacks” between both the notes and the spaces within the soundstage.” Perhaps this was an artifact of its quietness.
All of the above were my impressions with the SV83 tubes. I have spent a few hours now auditioning it with the EL84’s. Just as with the Decware, EL84’s are interchangeable in the Kitoki. In the past, I’d rolled some TAD EL84’s with the Decware and wasn’t super impressed. The sound became less dynamic, lost volume and just became too polite. When I threw in the Tung Sol supplied EL84’s into the Kitoki, I smiled. Yes, the EL84’s seemed less powerful but they were still very dynamic and not soft sounding like they were with the Decware. “Ahhh”, I thought….”now here is something really tangible that I can write about explaining how the Kitoki differentiates itself!” But then I on a whim I figured, I better try these Tung Sols in the Zen as well and sure enough, they showed that it was the tubes, not the amp that had initially turned me off to EL84’s. Overall, the EL84’s retained much of the SV83 sound just sort of relaxing every thing across the spectrum. They were nice and very listenable.
So it looks like I have another week before I have to think about shipping this amp out to the next on the list. As I said, I don’t have much listening on it with the EL84’s so I’ll try to get more time with those tubes and I have yet to touch the beautiful Power Cord and Interconnects that Andrew included. I’ll follow up with some impressions when I’m done.
Really all I want to do now is just turn on the amp and enjoy it. Sometimes when you have a nice amp, it’s not so much fun to “review” it, you’d rather just turn it on and appreciate it which is what you want to do with this Kitoki.
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Hi Rob, love reading your reviews. I am running 3xrs (super) and Primaluna Prolog2. From all of your comparisons Decware Zen to wolf and fleawatt what do you think brings out the best? I love my omegas! Have a larger system with spica angelus but nothing like mr Omegas in a small room.
Brian
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Hi Seikosha , what do you think of the wolf vs the decware. I'm looking to replace my primaluna prolog 2 with another tube gearwith my 3xrs.
Would love to hear your thoughts and what you are running now.
Brian
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I'd be happy with the Zen or the Kitoki. With the SV83 tubes, which I prefer, the two amps are very close. The Zen has just a tiny bit more of a "direct" sound while the Kitoki is smoother. If your room is lively, I'd recommend the Kitoki, if it's not, consider the Zen. Again they are close.
With the el84 tubes,the Kitoki works better for me than with the Zen. In my system, the The el84's push the Zen too far towards a darker sound robbing it of the transparency it does so well in its standard configuration. However when you run the el84's with the Kitoki it doesn't sway too far in that direction, simply giving you a slightly warmer distant sound. It's quite nice.
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Hi Rob, love reading your reviews. I am running 3xrs (super) and Primaluna Prolog2. From all of your comparisons Decware Zen to wolf and fleawatt what do you think brings out the best? I love my omegas! Have a larger system with spica angelus but nothing like mr Omegas in a small room.
Brian
Thank you Brian,
The only speaker I've done a direct comparison of the two amps on are Super 3i's. My Zen isn't the UFO version, yet my findings between the two amps are similar to seikosha's. I run the stock 6N15N-EB in my Decware and love it.
The Kitoki shipped with Paano branded NOS 6N15N and sounds great with them. I now run Mesa Boogie branded (gray band) EL-84 (don't know who actually makes them - be nice to know). They do everything the 6N15N do but add depth to the soundstage. I have no plans to switch back to the Paano tubes.
Tough call between the two amps. They're both an utter delight. You wouldn't go wrong with either.
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Thankyou both for the comments! Sounds like a tough call.
Brian
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Well after a near four year hiatus. I am bringing this thread back to life. My Super 3 HO’s are now complete and getting shipped soon. I have been researching and talking to multiple tube amp builders and tube amp owners. After much debate and and much thought, along with a lot of emails back and forth to and from Andrew, I have decided to take the plunge on the Wolf Ear. He is wiring it a little different than his current 5 watt per channel offering. Lower noise, better Sonics at the expense of some power. A little over 2 watts per channel instead of 5. No big deal. 10x12 room and I’ll be sitting about 6 feet away. I’m sure that will be plenty. So tomorrow, I am going to place an order with Andrew. Unless anyone here has anything else to say or tell me. Speak now. :D
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Pentode to SE?
In our series of SE EL84 amps we went theother way ending up with a Schade feedback pentode SE amp (RH-84 is the classic example) with 3.9w.
Easy enuff to change in the field if you feel like it. I am preety sure the Wolf’s Ear amps ar point-to-point.
dave
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Yes, both the Kitoki v1 and v2 are point to point wired.
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Yes, both the Kitoki v1 and v2 are point to point wired.
I am still trying to find synergy for my Omega HO Super 3 dual RS5's.
I have really contemplated Kitoki.
Main concerns I have, is there is not a lot of information nor activity here on this forum. I would love to see this area more active.
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Andrew is coming out with V3 of the Kitoki. I am considering getting one.
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I have one on order, it will take a few months to build because I’m the first one to order the V3.
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I have one on order, it will take a few months to build because I’m the first one to order the V3.
What is changing?
The thread title is referencing the first version, the second version is ultralinear?
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What is changing?
The thread title is referencing the first version, the second version is ultralinear?
No they are all SETs.
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No they are all SETs.
EL84 based set does not = 5 watts.
Find a picture of the V2 amp (one here on AC), looks like a UL tap on the opt.
Edit: Old ad from Wolf Ear: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649386211-the-new-wolf-ear-kitoki-v2-is-here-we-eat-the-shipping/
"The new Wolf Ear Kitoki v2 is now shipping. It is a single ended EL84 Ultralinear with 5w/ch so it will play a wider variety of speakers than a 2w/ch SET.
That said, the Kitoki v2 can be ordered as a 2w/ch SET at no extra cost for those with more efficient speakers."
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They have some really interesting gear..
Everything looks well thought out and prices aren't out of this world...
:thumb:
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EL84 based set does not = 5 watts.
Find a picture of the V2 amp (one here on AC), looks like a UL tap on the opt.
Edit: Old ad from Wolf Ear: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649386211-the-new-wolf-ear-kitoki-v2-is-here-we-eat-the-shipping/
"The new Wolf Ear Kitoki v2 is now shipping. It is a single ended EL84 Ultralinear with 5w/ch so it will play a wider variety of speakers than a 2w/ch SET.
That said, the Kitoki v2 can be ordered as a 2w/ch SET at no extra cost for those with more efficient speakers."
I stand corrected. oops
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They have some really interesting gear..
Everything looks well thought out and prices aren't out of this world...
:thumb:
The V3 is a 6V6 based SET making 2.5 watts. It is now $1600
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the 6v6 can be wired as a SET; it’d have to be a SEP (Pentode)
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A 6V6 can be used in a triode circuit.
You don't see very many triode builds :scratch: , I'll leave it at that.
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6V6 is an underused valve. I put it in the same class as the EL84. Maybe better.
dave
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A 6V6 can be used in a triode circuit.
You don't see very many triode builds :scratch: , I'll leave it at that.
Thanks! I had no idea.
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hello
currently have an amp using adapters to get 6aq5 - if i get other adapters can use 6v6 also, is very nice after mods - would love a triode switch *so curious*
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Should be getting my Kitoki v3 in a couple of weeks. I’ll see if it is any good or not.
Due to supply chain issues I did not get a metal chassis, I got a Hammond walnut wooden chassis.
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6V6 is an underused valve. I put it in the same class as the EL84. Maybe better.
dave
Yep, more balls, less excess detail. The 6V6, 6L6, 5881, KT88, 6550 family are wonderful sounding tubes.
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Due date is Friday the 18th. Woo hoo. If some don’t know this it will be V3.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238803)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238804)