AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Danny Richie on 17 Jan 2018, 07:33 pm
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Jay and Don have made some Wedgie flat packs. The front baffle is now 1" thick verses the older one that was 3/4" thick. The tweeter is also now recessed into the rear of the baffle instead on mounting on its surface. It is very nicely done now.
However slight changes easily change the response and the short side wing and crossover got a little adjustment to form a more ideal response. To show how little changes can have such an effect on the response I went back and took measurements with no short side wing, and with the old side wing, and compared them to the new side wing that I just designed.
Here is a picture of the Wedgie on the test stand for measurements and no short side wing.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/no%20wing%20pic.jpg)
And here is the response.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/no%20wing.jpg)
Here it is with the old side wing.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/short%20wing%20pic.jpg)
And the response.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/old%20wing.jpg)
And now the new side wing.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20wing%20pic.jpg)
Now check out the new response.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20wing.jpg)
That thing is +/- about 1db over a really wide range. I also left it a little strong in the 350Hz range as the first order filter that most guys use to roll off the bottom end tends to drop the output below 400Hz. So this area will likely be down a db or so depending on the filter.
Here is a shot of the long wing side. I think I will have the top of this wing angled down about 3 degrees so that it doesn't create a straight line. Rounding the back top corner off would be good too.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/long%20wing%20pic.jpg)
And the side view from the short wing side.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/side%20pic.jpg)
These open baffle designs really like the asymmetrical side wing shapes. They really like an asymmetrical short wing too. It really helped extend the bottom end a little too. Compare the response of the new one with the old one. The new one is using our new GR Neo 3 too. :green:
Here is the new response again. Note the gain in the bottom end. This will allow the lower crossover point to the servo subs to be a little lower.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/new%20wing.jpg)
And the old version.
(http://gr-research.com/pics/MMTMM%20crossover.jpg)
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Wow, that is a really flat response.
What process do you go through to create the side wing?
Do you cut different shapes from cardboard?
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Wow, that is a really flat response.
What process do you go through to create the side wing?
Do you cut different shapes from cardboard?
I start with cardboard, then a 3/4" sheet of foam, then MDF.
And yes, that is an extremely flat response. And the best part is that by really working with the side wing shapes to adjust the response means that I only have to use a minimal number of crossover parts because I am not having to electrically adjust for response anomalies caused by the baffle size and shape.
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I like this design a lot. what kinda price point are you aiming to hit for this design?
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I like this design a lot. what kinda price point are you aiming to hit for this design?
$899 for everything including the flat pack.
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I'll add a couple shots of the baffle rear side and showing how the tweeter mounts as well as the angled rabbets for the wings. With the new "short" wing, we'll have 3 dowels and 3 screws for each wing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174694)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174692)
Cabinets are CNC machined from 1" & .75" MEDEX
jay
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$899 for everything including the flat pack.
oh it is higher than i thought. my thinking is that an open baffle design like this will need to be complemented by subwoofers, right? im saying this because the few OB designs that I have heard have much much larger woofers to be close to FR
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oh it is higher than i thought. my thinking is that an open baffle design like this will need to be complemented by subwoofers, right? im saying this because the few OB designs that I have heard have much much larger woofers to be close to FR
The Wedgie is just the top half.
It was originally built with our Servo 8's. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151056.msg1616048#msg1616048
But the servo 12's in a base similar to this might be a better solution and something we are going to be matching up with themin the future. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=135399.msg1448091#msg1448091
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I'll be the guy to ask the inevitable question that always gets asked when you do a new design.
How will these compare to the NX ottica monitors?
The neo 3 will be on right?
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Danny, what is the width of the front and the length of the side panel?
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I increased teh baffle width slightly over the stock, they are approx 5.25" wide now to accomadate the larger radius onthe edges
Wing length is approx 15" from front of rabbet.....
jay
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Jay.......do the flat packs ship from Canada?
Or maybe a better question is can they....
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Jay.......do the flat packs ship from Canada?
Or maybe a better question is can they....
yeah Perry, we can ship them from Canada if that works better ( for you, obviously it would). Or even better possibly ? I can probably arrange for you to pick up in Calgary if that works. don has some good contacts there, I'm sure we could work something out
jay
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Danny,
Are you using the Neo 3 open back or closed in this wedgie? I have always wondered how valuable an open baffle is for a tweeter.
Jac
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Danny,
Are you using the Neo 3 open back or closed in this wedgie? I have always wondered how valuable an open baffle is for a tweeter.
Jac
It is 100% open baffle. And that tweeter is really something special in an open baffle application. It is also offset by the depth of the wave guide so that it is physically aligned to the voice coils of the LGK drivers. This means that the tweeter is in phase in both directions.
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Danny,
That looks great! :D
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I'm sure this has been asked before so I apologize in advance. What kind of SPLs can these handle? It's for a small room but I'm used to my Super V's so I do like to turn it up sometimes.
I have an O.K. boxed sub that I would be using at first for budget reasons but these look like a really nice top end.
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From what I recall greg, these little guys will crank it out, don't think you'll have an SPL issue. And, being only 5" wide, they image like crazy !!
jay
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It is 100% open baffle. And that tweeter is really something special in an open baffle application. It is also offset by the depth of the wave guide so that it is physically aligned to the voice coils of the LGK drivers. This means that the tweeter is in phase in both directions.
Thanks. That's great news. I'm really starting to like this idea.
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I never had any problem hitting over 100 dB in my 11x13 room at home.
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Questions for Mike (mlundy):
How do you position your speakers in your 11 x 13 room?
How far do you sit from the front of the speakers?
How far behind you is the rear wall?
Is the room treated?
I ask because we’re in the market for a new home, and there’s an excellent chance I’ll finally have a home office that is also suitable for a small (cozy) audio system where my wife won’t complain about OB speakers.
Michael
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Questions for Mike (mlundy):
How do you position your speakers in your 11 x 13 room?
How far do you sit from the front of the speakers?
How far behind you is the rear wall?
Is the room treated?
I ask because we’re in the market for a new home, and there’s an excellent chance I’ll finally have a home office that is also suitable for a small (cozy) audio system where my wife won’t complain about OB speakers.
Michael
Michael,
I had them positioned along the short wall. 3ft into the room and about 6ft apart (The MTM Oticas are in their place right now). My recliner is at the rear of the room against the back wall when leaned back. There is a double window behind the chair. This puts me about 8ft from the speakers.
I have some treatments in the room. A combination of absorption and diffraction behind the speakers, diffraction at the first reflection points on the side wall and absorption behind the chair in the window well.
I put the room treatment in for the Otticas. The Wedgies were not as particular.
I have also had the Wedgies set up along the long wall (haven't tried the Oticas this way). With this setup the the Wedgies were 3ft off the wall and about 8ft apart. The recliner was against the back wall when leaned back which put me about 6ft from the speakers. I liked the overall presentation better with the speakers along the long wall since I could spread them farther apart. Both soundstage and imaging were better.
Since you will be looking for another house, get one with a bigger room than this, especially if you plan on using it for an office also. 13x16 at least.
When I get back from the Lone Star Audio Fest I will likely set the Oticas up along the long wall so I can spread them farther apart. This will put me closer to them than I would like but until I get the next remodel project done (making the room 13x15) I'll have to live with it.
Mike
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Mike,
Thank you.
My goal is to find a home with a dedicated audio room and another room to serve as my office/small audio room. The <hopefully> larger dedicated room would be for my Apollo speakers. If there’s no dedicated room, it’ll have to be a great room or family room in which WAF would play a major role (no OB in such a scenario).
I’ll eventually announce our new home.
Michael
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Mike,
Thank you.
My goal is to find a home with a dedicated audio room and another room to serve as my office/small audio room. The <hopefully> larger dedicated room would be for my Apollo speakers. If there’s no dedicated room, it’ll have to be a great room or family room in which WAF would play a major role (no OB in such a scenario).
I’ll eventually announce our new home.
Michael
You can never have too many man caves :lol: Good hunting
Mike
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Is it possible to change the setup from a mmtmm to a mtmww? Something similar to the ob7 plus but with servo subs?
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Is it possible to change the setup from a mmtmm to a mtmww? Something similar to the ob7 plus but with servo subs?
No, that would change the response, impedance, and SPL level. And the acoustic centers are so close together due to the small diameter of the 3" drivers that the MMTMM works out great.
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When you set them up complete with the subwoofers you get an MMTMM-SWSW on each side.
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Anyone have the images to share from the original post ,#1 here?
I don't see any images, just blank spaces and would like to compare the curves for the "old" (original) Wedgie and the "new"(as of the date of O.P.).
Thanks in advance for pix of these curves.
-Chas
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Danny's first post with graphs does not show up, and I used two browsers.
What drivers are used besides the planer?
Total height of the wedgie?
Thanks
Rocket Ronny
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The midrange drivers are no longer available so the design is not offered anymore.
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Danny's first post with graphs does not show up, and I used two browsers.
What drivers are used besides the planer?
Total height of the wedgie?
Thanks
Rocket Ronny
The Wedgie used the Original LGK 1.0 Drivers in an MMTMM array with a custom BG Neo 3 tweeter. it was designed to sit on top of triple 8" servo subs in a similar wedge-shaped baffle
Here was the final response of the original cabinet design.
About 14" deep and 21" tall
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261500)
Here's the original cabinet design:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261502)
The "newer" version tweaked the "short wing" side by making the lower section a little longer to tweak the bottom end response a little bit.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261501)
You can see the "new" version of the cabinet in the link below:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160413.0
We built a prototype "Wedgie 2.0" about a year ago with some tweaks to the waveguide, and got a pretty decent response, it needed steeper slopes and is only about 90dB efficient.
We've shelved the project for now though, but we may revisit it sometime in the future as a full tower design.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=261504)
I don't have any pictures of it though
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The midrange drivers are no longer available so the design is not offered anymore.
Total bummer too. Along with the Super Seven’s. 😢
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Total bummer too. Along with the Super Seven’s. 😢
I think there is still hope for a return of the super 7.
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Total bummer too. Along with the Super Seven’s. 😢
I think I might have the last pair of Super 7’s ever built. They are pretty awesome. Over the years, I did manage to source some more midrange panels (used but good condition). I’m in the process of possibly converting the Super 7’s to the Line Force speakers, which are truly god-tier. Also holy-shit expensive.