AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: sumoking on 25 Dec 2018, 09:02 pm
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I got this passive and it blew me away for the buck.
Please share if you agree or if you know of a better deal.
Cheers!
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It would be a good deal if that is a genuine Alps pot. Lot of fake ones coming out of China. But hey, if it sounds great, it's a bargain!
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For my buddy Rex, it replaced a $1400 and a $600 passive, for me, it replaced an $1800 tube pre. If nothing else, buy one for a back-up pre in case your present one goes defective.
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I got this passive and it blew me away for the buck.
Please share if you agree or if you know of a better deal.
Cheers!
You get your source output and power amp input impedance right and you'll get a clear window, grain free sound from a passive pre.
I've built a passive pre with a case once, cost me a lot more than $55
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If it’s a genuine Alps pot I’d throw it in the trash.
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Folks need to be more specific or provide links. There are multiple versions of these things out there. Is this the passive with relays and power cord or this the one without either?
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Folks need to be more specific or provide links. There are multiple versions of these things out there. Is this the passive with relays and power cord or this the one without either?
The $56 one.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Pre-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B01MXC9HHW/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1545785805&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=%2456+Nobsound+Passive+Preamp
Mine is never going in the trash. :nono:
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The $56 one.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Pre-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B01MXC9HHW/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1545785805&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=%2456+Nobsound+Passive+Preamp
Mine is never going in the trash. :nono:
Ok. On Ebay they go from $40 to $70, some under the Little Bear label. Looks like just an alps pot and a nice straightforward pcb. I think the lesson here is how overpriced some passives can be.
FYI - the same preamp is only $40 on Amazon as the Little Bear MC2.
EDIT: the MC2 has 20k input impedance vs. 10k for the Nobsound.
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(https://auroramills.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/old-school-trash-can-add-1.png)
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Anyone compared it against the one with stepped attenuator?
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Potentiometer-Preamplifier-Attenuator-Preamplifiers/dp/B076BP2QM6
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Ok. On Ebay they go from $40 to $70, some under the Little Bear label. Looks like just an alps pot and a nice straightforward pcb. I think the lesson here is how overpriced some passives can be.
FYI - the same preamp is only $40 on Amazon as the Little Bear MC2.
EDIT: the MC2 has 20k input impedance vs. 10k for the Nobsound.
The $40 one is made out of plastic. It almost sounds as good as the $56 one on Amazon. I have both, but the $56 one on Amazon is the latest updated one and the build quality is well worth the extra $16. Some of the metal ones on Ebay is not the latest models. I would never pay more than the Amazon one for $56. I know it is the latest model.
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(https://auroramills.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/old-school-trash-can-add-1.png)
There you go Folsom, another Hot Rod project. Yank those bad Alps pots out and put much better ones in.We would all buy one from you.
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I agree, Alps pots are mediocre. However, when I built a Pass B1 buffer, I tried a motorized Alps Blue and an expensive TKD motorized 2511 pot. The TKD had much more detail but it was unbearably bright. A waste of money.
I always laugh when I see companies claim that they use an expensive blue alps pot. The non motorized version cost $15 vs $45 for the motorized for remote control.
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Just ordered the $56 Nobsound . Will be here Saturday . Lets see how it compares to the SMPro Nanopatch I have used for years . The smpro uses a pot I could not identify from research ? Looking for a improvement with the ALPS /nobsound
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The $40 one is made out of plastic. It almost sounds as good as the $56 one on Amazon. I have both, but the $56 one on Amazon is the latest updated one and the build quality is well worth the extra $16. Some of the metal ones on Ebay is not the latest models. I would never pay more than the Amazon one for $56. I know it is the latest model.
Wonder how much of that sound quality difference is due to the lower impedance of the newer pot. One of the things I found building different passives and actives (like the B1) is that there's a sweet spot when it comes to the output impedance to an amp, with preference for lower.
A nice well made basic passive is always handy.
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Yes. I've enjoyed my Nobsound passive preamp but be careful as the RCA inputs are fragile and tight cables can pull them out. I know from experience.
As much as I like the Nobsound a better and cheaper choice is the $31 FX Audio 6j1 preamp ( not a buffer ) paired with a switch box ( if more inputs are needed ).
I started a thread on the FX on another forum where it's getting great reviews.
https://www.amazon.com/FX-Audio-TUBE-01-Preamplifier-Black/dp/B01HEQJGPC
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Yes. I've enjoyed my Nobsound passive preamp but be careful as the RCA inputs are fragile and tight cables can pull them out. I know from experience.
As much as I like the Nobsound a better and cheaper choice is the $31 FX Audio 6j1 preamp ( not a buffer ) paired with a switch box ( if more inputs are needed ).
I started a thread on the FX on another forum where it's getting great reviews.
https://www.amazon.com/FX-Audio-TUBE-01-Preamplifier-Black/dp/B01HEQJGPC
Are you using the stock tubes?
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I swapped the Chinese stock tubes for a pair of WE 403B's which I already had. Also using a linear regulated psu.
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Ordered, it will be here Friday. I will compare the two. I also have 403B WE tubes and 12v PSU lying around here somewhere. Now to find those. :scratch:
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Gee, $56 for the linked Nobsound unit is a great deal for a balanced stereo level control. I'm temped to get one just to see if it's wired correctly.
It's easy to mis-wire a balanced level control and when you add XLR to RCA switches at both ends, why it's even easier.
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Gee, $56 for the linked Nobsound unit is a great deal for a balanced stereo level control. I'm temped to get one just to see if it's wired correctly.
It's easy to mis-wire a balanced level control and when you add XLR to RCA switches at both ends, why it's even easier.
I can assure you that mine is wired correctly. A balanced passive preamp that sounds fantastic for $56 is amazing. I can't wait to read the comparison reports. I love the passive cause its clean. To put tubes in the mix defeats the purpose of the passive and the resulting transparency you get in my opinion. I haven't had an issue with the RCA inputs.
Question: Since this is so inexpensive, does it make any sense to get two and use them in a dual mono fashion? I know you have to adjust two volume controls, but would it sound any better?
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Question: Since this is so inexpensive, does it make any sense to get two and use them in a dual mono fashion? I know you have to adjust two volume controls, but would it sound any better?
As good as it sounds now, why buy another? But you can always return it to Amazon if it does not work.
My only complaint is the very sensitive volume control. But at $56, why complain? Maybe they will someday make a remote control version. But that might take away from the SQ like Rex's $1400 passive.
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Not sure if I understand how a passive pre that doesn’t have power works... ......can I hook a phono stage to it and control volume just like a regular Preamp?
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This is the Nobsound I have. Hard to figure out which Nobsound passive was the subject of this thread. This one requires power for the switch only and has three inputs and two outputs. One output is volume controlled while the other is straight through. For whatever reason this site won't ( at the moment ) allow my pictures to load. Here's a link.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Selector-Pre-Amplifier-Adjustable-Controller/dp/B01M18QM62/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1545850090&sr=8-9&keywords=Nobsound+passive+preamp
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Not sure if I understand how a passive pre that doesn’t have power works... ......can I hook a phono stage to it and control volume just like a regular Preamp?
it's only work with solid state phono ,not tubes phono stage.
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I can assure you that mine is wired correctly. A balanced passive preamp that sounds fantastic for $56 is amazing. I can't wait to read the comparison reports. I love the passive cause its clean. To put tubes in the mix defeats the purpose of the passive and the resulting transparency you get in my opinion. I haven't had an issue with the RCA inputs.
Question: Since this is so inexpensive, does it make any sense to get two and use them in a dual mono fashion? I know you have to adjust two volume controls, but would it sound any better?
Like that idea of two for dual mono. Yes two volume controls but adds benefit of balancing both channels if needed. For me personally dual mono everything has been much better than anything else.
charles
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Not sure if I understand how a passive pre that doesn’t have power works... ......can I hook a phono stage to it and control volume just like a regular Preamp?
It's just a volume pot with inputs and outputs. That's what a 'regular' preamp is ultimately, without bells and whistles. You can hook up whatever you like as long as you remember that a passive doesn't add gain. It attenuates what comes in, it doesn't increase it.
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This is the Nobsound I have. Hard to figure out which Nobsound passive was the subject of this thread. This one requires power for the switch and has three inputs and two outputs. One output is volume controlled while the other is straight through. For whatever reason this site won't ( at the moment ) allow my pictures to load. Here's a link.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Selector-Pre-Amplifier-Adjustable-Controller/dp/B01M18QM62/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1545850090&sr=8-9&keywords=Nobsound+passive+preamp
As Tom mentioned, the subject of this thread is the one that uses no power and has a 10k volume pot.
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Why I don't make one is because I'd have to order from China. I'm going to want to much $ if I make it. There just isn't a way to compete, and people will probably be disappointing that they don't get something real fancy once they start paying more $. I recommend just building your own. It can't get much easier.
Here's one you can build. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockappella-Passive-Pre-Amp-Preamplifier-DIY-Project-gold-knob-23-point/163087445753?hash=item25f8c4eef9:g:lFIAAOSwmoxZqMmm:rk:40:pf:0)
Here's an assembled one. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tisbury-Audio-Mini-Passive-Preamp-II-Pre-Amplifier-Switch-Box-Attenuator/171062829201?epid=2271710534&hash=item27d423a091:g:jWoAAOSwBahVaePS:rk:2:pf:0)
Their volume devices is so superior. It's why I'd throw anything Alps in the trash.
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Why I don't make one is because I'd have to order from China. I'm going to want to much $ if I make it. There just isn't a way to compete, and people will probably be disappointing that they don't get something real fancy once they start paying more $. I recommend just building your own. It can't get much easier.
Here's one you can build. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockappella-Passive-Pre-Amp-Preamplifier-DIY-Project-gold-knob-23-point/163087445753?hash=item25f8c4eef9:g:lFIAAOSwmoxZqMmm:rk:40:pf:0)
Here's an assembled one. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tisbury-Audio-Mini-Passive-Preamp-II-Pre-Amplifier-Switch-Box-Attenuator/171062829201?epid=2271710534&hash=item27d423a091:g:jWoAAOSwBahVaePS:rk:2:pf:0)
Their volume devices is so superior. It's why I'd throw anything Alps in the trash.
The cheap SMD DACT-copy pots in the Tisbury are only $12 and yes, they are *excellent*, but the Nobsound is cheap and cheerful set it and forget it. Hopefully Nobsound will make a DACT version like Tisbury.
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If they did I might have one just for circumstances that come up.
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The cheap SMD DACT-copy pots in the Tisbury are only $12 and yes, they are *excellent*, but the Nobsound is cheap and cheerful set it and forget it. Hopefully Nobsound will make a DACT version like Tisbury.
Looks like nobsound does have a stepped attenuator version
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Potentiometer-Preamplifier-Attenuator-Preamplifiers/dp/B076BP2QM6
Just doesn't seem to have as much feedback anywhere.
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At these prices one can try a dozen different ones and still be way under what a low priced "midfi" preamp sells for
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Looks like nobsound does have a stepped attenuator version
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Potentiometer-Preamplifier-Attenuator-Preamplifiers/dp/B076BP2QM6
Just doesn't seem to have as much feedback anywhere.
That's the kind with the switching resistors:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188359)
So many preamps/pots out there. Glad they're finally getting packaged though, for a long time these options were just diy.
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Low noise switches (relays) are not that cheap.
It would be nice to know what stepped attenuator is used. The blue ones with a white cap sound terrible.
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If they did I might have one just for circumstances that come up.
I used to have Reference Line Pre Emenience Dual Mono Preamp which was very transparent.
Folsom-
Do you make passive preamp's. If it was a lot better sounding than my nobsound, I would consider purchasing a top notch passive with two single ended RCA and one XLR input; two XLR and one single ended outputs.
How much would you charge to make it?
Curious, Many thanks.
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This thread is timely as it encourages me to finally put this together. I have had the board, and parts for awhile. I will be using a stepped attenuator in place of the Alps pot.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291429-gb-salas-select-mesmerize-type-input-selector-volume-control.html (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291429-gb-salas-select-mesmerize-type-input-selector-volume-control.html)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188366)
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Ordered one to use for burn in purposes. Of course I will give it a go in main rig out of curiosity. For $56 no need to use my preamp to burn in cables.
Please remember passive preamps do not fit all systems. For optimum performance the source [ CD/DAC ] requires a minimum of 2V output. The more the merrier. Then ones Amp should have a low input sensitivity. They will work without these requirements however not their best.
I have owned several passive designs. Promithius, Stevens & Billington which are transformer based. As well as several other resistor based ones. I prefer the transformer based.
For $56 again well worth a spin. Let ya know what I hear. Will be comparing to a Lamm LL2.1 preamp. Yes unfair but informing.
charles
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For $56 again well worth a spin. Let ya know what I hear. Will be comparing to a Lamm LL2.1 preamp. Yes unfair but informing.
charles
That will be interesting Charles. Probably one of the most unfair comparisons anyone can make.
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Ordered one to use for burn in purposes. Of course I will give it a go in main rig out of curiosity. For $56 no need to use my preamp to burn in cables.
Please remember passive preamps do not fit all systems. For optimum performance the source [ CD/DAC ] requires a minimum of 2V output. The more the merrier. Then ones Amp should have a low input sensitivity. They will work without these requirements however not their best.
I have owned several passive designs. Promithius, Stevens & Billington which are transformer based. As well as several other resistor based ones. I prefer the transformer based.
For $56 again well worth a spin. Let ya know what I hear. Will be comparing to a Lamm LL2.1 preamp. Yes unfair but informing.
charles
Will be interesting to hear your comparison results. It would be even more interesting to hear how it compares to a Tortuga (or similar) if anyone has one.
Sumo
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Will be interesting to hear your comparison results. It would be even more interesting to hear how it compares to a Tortuga (or similar) if anyone has one.
Sumo
My friend Rex says it beats his Tortuga.
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My friend Rex says it beats his Tortuga.
Wow! I had the Reference Line Passive for a good long time and it really reminded me of it. $56 with XLRs... amazing deal! I think I will get another and go dual mono just to see if it makes a difference.
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That will be interesting Charles. Probably one of the most unfair comparisons anyone can make.
True. Do not expect to be close but what the heck.
charles
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True. Do not expect to be close but what the heck.
charles
Will be very interesting to hear how they sound different. :popcorn:
Is it your LAMM preamp?
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True. Do not expect to be close but what the heck.
charles
Rollo-
Looking forward to hearing your comparison review!
Did you get it yet?
Thanks.
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The preamp I replaced was the $1800 IFI Itube Pro Ican. Rex has both the Warp Speed and the Tortuga. I am thinking about trying the $59 3 input, 2 output. I could use more inputs. I have a couple of subs I could hook up to it also.
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The preamp I replaced was the $1800 IFI Itube Pro Ican. Rex has both the Warp Speed and the Tortuga. I am thinking about trying the $59 3 input, 2 output. I could use more inputs. I have a couple of subs I could hook up to it also.
Can someone venture a guess as to how a $56.00 preamp displaces ones costing 30 times as much?? not 3 times as much .... 30 times!
I understand that both labor and materials are cheaper in China… but 30 times less??
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I preferred a SMpro Nano patch ($60) over a $7000 Marantz sc7s2 . Go figure
I received the nobsound yesterday . It sounds great . Bass is the biggest improvement over the SMpro used in comparison . All frequencies sound more vibrant . Excellent product . Thanks for sharing the info guys !
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Can someone venture a guess as to how a $56.00 preamp displaces ones costing 30 times as much?? not 3 times as much .... 30 times!
I understand that both labor and materials are cheaper in China… but 30 times less??
Ever see the Primaluna ad that talks about how the preamp is the biggest con in audio . The costs to build a preamp are small . The amounts manufacturers charge is ridiculous
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Can someone venture a guess as to how a $56.00 preamp displaces ones costing 30 times as much?? not 3 times as much .... 30 times!
I understand that both labor and materials are cheaper in China… but 30 times less??
What do you call a "preamp"? Alps in a box is not a "preamp", it's just alps in a box. Before you fall over congratulating yourselves on bargain of the decade please get familiar with source impedance matching concepts.
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That was already discussed on page one of the thread. As well as understanding matching impedance levels correctly I'm pretty sure most members here are aware of the differences between active and passive preamps. But if somebody does ask we know who to go to.
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What do you call a "preamp"? Alps in a box is not a "preamp", it's just alps in a box. Before you fall over congratulating yourselves on bargain of the decade please get familiar with source impedance matching concepts.
My buddy Rex owns an impedence matching Tortuga. But he likes this Nobsound better. For $56, buy one and if you do not like it, return it in 30 days to get your $56 back.
Rex has used passives for over 30 years now. I doubt if anyone else here has had that many.
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Can someone venture a guess as to how a $56.00 preamp displaces ones costing 30 times as much?? not 3 times as much .... 30 times!
I understand that both labor and materials are cheaper in China… but 30 times less??
It's just a potentiometer and a switch. Less circuitry can sometimes be better, it's very system-dependent. Balanced ones are not very common though, perhaps that's a reason for the good reports...
Assuming I have the right one that is, it's cheaper on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Passive-Preamp-Pre-Amplifier-XLR-RCA-Volume-Control-/272866696241 [Edit] Hm, well the one I linked says it has an Alps 09 whereas this one on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Pre-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B01M4I9EOK) says Alps 27. In fact there seems to be several different versions of it...
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It's just a potentiometer and a switch. Less circuitry can sometimes be better, it's very system-dependent. Balanced ones are not very common though, perhaps that's a reason for the good reports...
Assuming I have the right one that is, it's cheaper on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Passive-Preamp-Pre-Amplifier-XLR-RCA-Volume-Control-/272866696241
That's the one with the 20K pot. OzarkTom is talking about a newer one (that looks the same) with a 10K pot...
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Yes, I've now realized there are several versions.
Did someone post a link earlier? [Edit] Yes OzarkTom did. Sorry for the confusion :) :duh:
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Yes, I've now realized there are several versions. Did someone post a link earlier? [Edit] Yes OzarkTom did. Sorry for the confusion :) :duh:
No worries mate!
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What do you call a "preamp"? Alps in a box is not a "preamp", it's just alps in a box. Before you fall over congratulating yourselves on bargain of the decade please get familiar with source impedance matching concepts.
One thing I'm quite familiar with is tone, and I'm not sure I like yours :lol: :lol: :lol:
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In answer to the OP's question, I think the Schiit Sys is quite good for $49.
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About the green ALPS 09: at low volume channels are often unbalanced, that is, the volume differs a bit. Only at the beginning of the turn. It is a common complaint.
Off topic or not:
I have an iFi iCan class A headphone amp and it has this small problem with the ALPS 09.
(https://img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1586602-ifi-audio-ican-headphone-amp-400mw-class-a-output-3-gain-settings.jpg)
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About the green ALPS 09: at low volume channels are often unbalanced, that is, the volume differs a bit. Only at the beginning of the turn. It is a common complaint.
Off topic or not:
I have an iFi iCan class A headphone amp and it has this small problem with the ALPS 09.
(https://img.ukaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1586602-ifi-audio-ican-headphone-amp-400mw-class-a-output-3-gain-settings.jpg)
You are right, both the IFInPro Ican and the Nobsound is off balance at very low listening levels. If you listen at very low levels, buy two Nobsounds. Then ylu have two balance controls for $112. Or think dual mono.
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As someone here mentioned the Schitt Sys, it is only $49 And this OL Switcher is $45.
https://www.jdslabs.com/products/177/ol-switcher/
It will be interesting to compare all three, these American versions are RCA only. If RCA is the only format you are using, these might be even better buys than the Nobsound. One owner of both the Schitt and OL Switcher said they sound the same, but liked the build of the OL switcher better. I imagine they sound as good as the Nobsound. I like the looks of the OL Switcher the best. Now for more purchases. This hobby is getting a lot more fun with these C&C passive preamps. You can buy several for less than $200.
I have compared both RCA and XLR out on the Nobsound and they are very close in SQ.
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Anyone try A Mackie Big nob ? or any others geared as studio monitor controls ?
Is there a better Alps pot model out there , than the Nobsound ?
Might try the stepped model Nobsound if people think it will be a improvement over the alps Nobsound .
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Anyone else notice when using a passive pre that all recordings are playable without distortion ?
Recordings that would provoke brightness when using a pre with gain , no longer are so offensive . I find myself listening to recordings I won't with many regular preamps .
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As someone here mentioned the Schitt Sys, it is only $49 And this OL Switcher is $45.
https://www.jdslabs.com/products/177/ol-switcher/
It will be interesting to compare all three, these American versions are RCA only. If RCA is the only format you are using, these might be even better buys than the Nobsound. One owner of both the Schitt and OL Switcher said they sound the same, but liked the build of the OL switcher better. I imagine they sound as good as the Nobsound. I like the looks of the OL Switcher the best. Now for more purchases. This hobby is getting a lot more fun with these C&C passive preamps. You can buy several for less than $200.
I have compared both RCA and XLR out on the Nobsound and they are very close in SQ.
The OL Switcher would be a good choice to compare against the NObsound since it also just has a 10k pot.
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Anyone else notice when using a passive pre that all recordings are playable without distortion ?
Recordings that would provoke brightness when using a pre with gain , no longer are so offensive . I find myself listening to recordings I won't with many regular preamps .
Thank you for sharing this. I have had a hunch that preamps were the harshness problem, not the sound of digital.
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Anyone else notice when using a passive pre that all recordings are playable without distortion ?
Recordings that would provoke brightness when using a pre with gain , no longer are so offensive . I find myself listening to recordings I won't with many regular preamps .
Since going to HE horns, it became apparent that gain is the enemy. Of course, amplifier choice plays into that as well. My preamp had switchable gain and the lowest setting, supposedly 0 gain, was the best sounding. With HE, differences in cables etc. is very apparent. I bought a Nobsound 3 input 2 out put, one volume controlled, to run a sub with my tube amp. For S&G I tried it as a volume control with my SS amp and was amazed at the improved transparency and with less stridency than my preamp. So, I'm happy.
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Oh my. Well, you guys have convinced me to try out the OL Switcher.
Though, I won't be able to do so until March.
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Anyone try A Mackie Big nob ? or any others geared as studio monitor controls ?
Is there a better Alps pot model out there , than the Nobsound ?
Might try the stepped model Nobsound if people think it will be a improvement over the alps Nobsound .
Stepped attenuators (resistor ladders) are FAR more precise than any type of smooth pot, including Alps. You don't get "infinite" volume settings with stepped attenuators, but that's actually part of the problem with smooth pots especially when used in their lower range. Channel to channel separation and level matching is near impossible up to a certain threshold. It's like a faucet with a single knob. Try to make the water trickle at a consistent warm temperature and rate ; Really can't be done. But open the valve up a bit to allow water to flow more freely and voila!, consistent temperature and rate. So, if you have ideal gain in your setup, a variable pot can work great...if you can "open up" the pot beyond the threshold where channel separation and volume balance can be trouble.
Stepped resistors provide fixed resistance at each setting for both channels separately. This is much more controlled and precise (especially when high quality resistors are used). This is where these types of pots can get pricey. But, you don't have to deal with quite the variables that smooth pots have.
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It will be interesting on what price a preamp that beats these cheap passives will cost.
:popcorn:
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Stepped attenuators (resistor ladders) are FAR more precise than any type of smooth pot, including Alps. You don't get "infinite" volume settings with stepped attenuators, but that's actually part of the problem with smooth pots especially when used in their lower range. Channel to channel separation and level matching is near impossible up to a certain threshold. It's like a faucet with a single knob. Try to make the water trickle at a consistent warm temperature and rate ; Really can't be done. But open the valve up a bit to allow water to flow more freely and voila!, consistent temperature and rate. So, if you have ideal gain in your setup, a variable pot can work great...if you can "open up" the pot beyond the threshold where channel separation and volume balance can be trouble.
Stepped resistors provide fixed resistance at each setting for both channels separately. This is much more controlled and precise (especially when high quality resistors are used). This is where these types of pots can get pricey. But, you don't have to deal with quite the variables that smooth pots have.
That's why my go to for years has been one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-volume-control-/190844814249
I've compared against Alps, Bourns, Nobles, Panasonic, the Dale stepped pots etc etc and these DACT knock offs beat them all. That's why I'm hoping Nobsound has a version using these pots, and not just Tilsbury. 21 steps is not quite enough sometimes though is the problem. The jump in volume between positions could be smaller.
I am all about simplicity and the minimizing of elements in the chain as an important factor in sound quality (with exceptions). A high quality pot just by itself can do wonders.
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That's why my go to for years has been one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-volume-control-/190844814249
I've compared against Alps, Bourns, Nobles, Panasonic, the Dale stepped pots etc etc and these DACT knock offs beat them all. That's why I'm hoping Nobsound has a version using these pots, and not just Tilsbury. 21 steps is not quite enough sometimes though is the problem. The jump in volume between positions could be smaller.
Hdre is one on Ebay flor $99.99. Four inputs and two outputs. Sounds like a very good deal if tou want a Dact passive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?hash=item2cbc002bab:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON:rk:1:pf:0
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That's why my go to for years has been one of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-volume-control-/190844814249
I've compared against Alps, Bourns, Nobles, Panasonic, the Dale stepped pots etc etc and these DACT knock offs beat them all. That's why I'm hoping Nobsound has a version using these pots, and not just Tilsbury. 21 steps is not quite enough sometimes though is the problem. The jump in volume between positions could be smaller.
I am all about simplicity and the minimizing of elements in the chain as an important factor in sound quality (with exceptions). A high quality pot just by itself can do wonders.
^
Blows me away that garbage like Alps can still get attention a decade or two later than the craze.
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^
Blows me away that garbage like Alps can still get attention a decade or two later than the craze.
:o Wow, I must get one of these if they blow away the Alps. Maybe IFI should use them also instead of Alps. No preamp would ever beat this at any cost.
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Do you have a soldering iron, a drill, punch, and wire stripper? That's all it takes. And maybe a box from eBay.
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Do you have a soldering iron, a drill, punch, and wire stripper? That's all it takes. And maybe a box from eBay.
The one on Ebay for $99.99 will work. Not a DIy'er. I could use several inputs and and Two outputs.
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For those that prefer a remote passive, check these out. Not cheap, but cheaper than most remote preamps.
https://www.khozmo.com/
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If you guys have the parts selected, I would be happy to assemble them for you.
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Blows me away that garbage like Alps can still get attention a decade or two later than the craze.
But this is assuming the Nobsound is even using genuine Alps. For all we know it's a knock-off, and like the fake DACT, they perform better than they should.
Hdre is one on Ebay flor $99.99. Four inputs and two outputs. Sounds like a very good deal if tou want a Dact passive.
Looks like a good option. Hopefully more vendors offer some.
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I talked to Rex last night. He wants me to help sell his Tortuga for him. So if anyone here needs one, I will be listing it soon n the Trading Post.
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It sounds like everyone here can improve their amp/preamp with a Dact volume control.
Rebview: http://dact.com/html/ct2_at_review33_com.html
For a DIY'er passive.
http://kotiweb.kotiportti.fi/audiovideo/DIY/preamp1/
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Stepped attenuators (resistor ladders) are FAR more precise than any type of smooth pot, including Alps. You don't get "infinite" volume settings with stepped attenuators, but that's actually part of the problem with smooth pots especially when used in their lower range. Channel to channel separation and level matching is near impossible up to a certain threshold. It's like a faucet with a single knob. Try to make the water trickle at a consistent warm temperature and rate ; Really can't be done. But open the valve up a bit to allow water to flow more freely and voila!, consistent temperature and rate. So, if you have ideal gain in your setup, a variable pot can work great...if you can "open up" the pot beyond the threshold where channel separation and volume balance can be trouble.
Stepped resistors provide fixed resistance at each setting for both channels separately. This is much more controlled and precise (especially when high quality resistors are used). This is where these types of pots can get pricey. But, you don't have to deal with quite the variables that smooth pots have.
Well, OK - I won't get the OL Switcher then!
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Well, OK - I won't get the OL Switcher then!
I have no audible imbalance with mine, at any level. It simply sounds better than my preamp (with the stepped attenuator). :wink:
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I have no audible imbalance with mine, at any level. It simply sounds better than my preamp (with the stepped attenuator). ;)
Well, won't a passive with a stepped pot be better still?
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Well, won't a passive with a stepped pot be better still?
2 OL Switchers, if 1 seems to have any problems.
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Well, won't a passive with a stepped pot be better still?
Not necessarily. Control range is limited, depending on the gain structure of your system you might not have much range left at all. Also, the switches tend to get clicky, I've had a couple do that (one was a DACT).
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Not necessarily. Control range is limited, depending on the gain structure of your system you might not have much range left at all. Also, the switches tend to get clicky, I've had a couple do that (one was a DACT).
Just when I was going to go on the Dact bandwagon. So how was the sound in comparison to others?
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Mine have yet to get clickly or anything like that.
Yes the range is limited so choose your settings wisely. That one I posted that's like $200 has settings.
But I'll take a slightly more limited range of superb fidelity to crap fidelity with more range.
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I've been happy with my Adcom GFP 750 for many years, partly because it has a switchable active/passive switch. I always run on passive, but it is interesting to be able to switch back and forth to sample quickly the degradation the active mode incurs.
Now I am intrigued by the gains possible with LDR type of preamp, so I googled it and came up with this kit device from Australia:
https://stereocoffee.wixsite.com/ldrpreamp/the-ldr-kit-details
I am impressed with the designer Chris Daly's apparent honesty, and the price seems reasonable at $240 Australian or $169 USD.
Is this old news?
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I've been happy with my Adcom GFP 750 for many years, partly because it has a switchable active/passive switch. I always run on passive, but it is interesting to be able to switch back and forth to sample quickly the degradation the active mode incurs.
Now I am intrigued by the gains possible with LDR type of preamp, so I googled it and came up with this kit device from Australia:
https://stereocoffee.wixsite.com/ldrpreamp/the-ldr-kit-details
I am impressed with the designer Chris Daly's apparent honesty, and the price seems reasonable at $240 Australian or $169 USD.
Is this old news?
The Warp Speed is a LDR passive. Rex likes his Nobsound over the Warp Speed. Just too many passives out there to hear them all.
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Maybe it curbs a little fatigue for him by smearing slightly?
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Maybe it curbs a little fatigue for him by smearing slightly?
What is the beef now Folsom? Rex now owns a much better sounding amp than yours. Is anyone trashing your amp thread? I am going to buy a Dact passive, and I have sent Rex the info to read. I am sure he will also buy one. He likes to do DIY, he will probably build one. He just sold some audio gear, so he will get his before I do.
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I am not trying to trash anything. There is nothing unusual about people choosing gear that offsets some attribute. People buy phase destroying stuff all day long for tens to hundreds of thousands, because they like it.
You also have no idea what I have at home. And I couldn’t care less what you think about an amp you’ve probably never heard. For what it costs to build it is overly competitive - there are hundreds of them out there.
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Well, won't a passive with a stepped pot be better still?
Maybe.
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LDR?
https://www.neurochrome.com/tortuga-audio-ldr3/
Conclusion
I considered not publishing these results as I generally avoid speaking negatively about my competitors. However, I have received quite a few questions about LDR based volume controls and rather than having to repeat myself, I would rather point people to this page so they can draw their own conclusions from the data.
I approached the measurements of the Tortuga Audio LDR3 with an open mind. I did my absolute best to make the LDR3 shine and I was more than willing to have my skepticism of LDR based volume controls proven wrong. Fortunately measurements tell the truth and the measurements of the LDR3 are not impressive.
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I am not trying to trash anything. There is nothing unusual about people choosing gear that offsets some attribute. People buy phase destroying stuff all day long for tens to hundreds of thousands, because they like it.
You also have no idea what I have at home. And I couldn’t care less what you think about an amp you’ve probably never heard. For what it costs to build it is overly competitive - there are hundreds of them out there.
And you have never heard these new amps that Rex and I now own. There are also others here that owns better amps. But I am sure you believe yours are the best like all amp designers do.
You said you would send me one of your amps to try long time ago, but never did.
Back to the original thread of Nobound and the value it is.
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Btw, something that very few comment in the net is that if we vary the gain the sound profile also changes.
The problem with the cheap chinese DACT (*), like many others, is the only 21 steps. Amps with low watts is OK.
(*) which for years it is spoken very well in the diyaudio forums first and later for its implementation in the Tisbury.
[Big IMG, inside] http://wallofsound.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/tis1.png
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More btw, neither is it much commented that the usual aluminum boxes used in DAC and preamp are usually thin-walled, which is a mistake. Off course, wood is worse.
Low/very low signals are more sensitive to RF/EMI atmospheric.
Better a case with 1 mm steel or 4mm or more aluminum.
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https://www.thomann.de/gb/studio_monitor_controllers.html?oa=pra
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And you have never heard these new amps that Rex and I now own. There are also others here that owns better amps. But I am sure you believe yours are the best like all amp designers do.
You said you would send me one of your amps to try long time ago, but never did.
Back to the original thread of Nobound and the value it is.
I have no idea what amps you are using. And while I think my 7297 amp is great, it’s just a very well done chipamp (a unique chip). It’s still relatively small potatoes compared to our discrete stuff that costs a fortune, and still behind the next DIY amps. All of it is up for subjective review that will vary. The only thing weird here is that you decided to get personal. I had wanted to send you the demo but it just didn’t work out that way, and then it evolved some past being able to ship.
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I have no idea what amps you are using. And while I think my 7297 amp is great, it’s just a very well done chipamp (a unique chip). It’s still relatively small potatoes compared to our discrete stuff that costs a fortune, and still behind the next DIY amps. All of it is up for subjective review that will vary. The only thing weird here is that you decided to get personal. I had wanted to send you the demo but it just didn’t work out that way, and then it evolved some past being able to ship.
I and maybe others got very tired of all the BS of Ncore fanboys several years ago. They said all other amps was trash or junk. Just because you know what is best, let others here slowly learn what is better. It is called trading up. Many are very skeptic that passives can beat their multi thousand dollar tube preamps. The Nobsound and other cheap pasives can be a learning curve for others here. In my sysytem and others here, the Nobsound is not harsh or trashy sounding. Maybe your amp makes then nobsound sound harsh? Or maybe we have all gone deaf?
Because of the Nobsound, I sold my tube preamp for $1275, I can probably now sell my power cord for $50. That makes the Nobsound as extra good value, like this thread is called. Do any Dact sellers give a 30 day money back guarantee? If so, who? There is an original Danish Dact on Ebay for around $700. Not everyone in the world does DIY.
As one person asked, how much would you charge to make these? People are still spending $3-5K+ for preamps that is inferior to the passives.
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What is the beef now Folsom? Rex now owns a much better sounding amp than yours. Is anyone trashing your amp thread? I am going to buy a Dact passive, and I have sent Rex the info to read. I am sure he will also buy one. He likes to do DIY, he will probably build one. He just sold some audio gear, so he will get his before I do.
Rex, is that you?
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And Folsom, it is not personal. In fact I even said your chip amps were probably the best if you go back far enough in your long thread. I had chip amps in the past, but I figured you had the best.
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I and maybe others got very tired of all the BS of Ncore fanboys several years ago. They said all other amps was trash or junk. Just because you know what is best, let others here slowly learn what is better. It is called trading up. Many are very skeptic that passives can beat their multi thousand dollar tube preamps. The Nobsound and other cheap pasives can be a learning curve for others here. In my sysytem and others here, the Nobsound is not harsh or trashy sounding. Maybe your amp makes then nobsound sound harsh? Or maybe we have all gone deaf?
Because of the Nobsound, I sold my tube preamp for $1275, I can probably now sell my power cord for $50. That makes the Nobsound as extra good value, like this thread is called. Do any Dact sellers give a 30 day money back guarantee? If so, who? There is an original Danish Dact on Ebay for around $700. Not everyone in the world does DIY.
As one person asked, how much would you charge to make these? People are still spending $3-5K+ for preamps that is inferior to the passives.
I can't compete with China. I would never be able to sell anything for $50 that anyone would buy. If people want a high end volume there is a lot of stuff available for passive. The only way for me to offer a preamp is to make it powered, so I'm not dealing with the choice between it and Chinese things on eBay.
There are things out there that allow people to "downgrade" and save $. I know a guy who had Devialet $10k amp, and decided mine was good enough that he didn't need it anymore. You can imagine the savings since he's good at DIY.
What I would suggest is to not see passive in competition per se with active. My suggestion would be if you have a nice preamp that's active, swap the pot in it for an eBay DACT, Goldpoint, Kuzman, or DACT (danish). Dynaco had offered the upgrade for the Chinese DACT for awhile because it's the only substantial upgrade they've had in, I dunno? Decades? But they recently just redid themselves so now the amps are just as-is, no retro stuff.
Sometimes we got hooked on actives just because they sounded different, and we don't recall attributes that may have been better without. Sometimes some stereos flat out need gain.
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I can't compete with China. I would never be able to sell anything for $50 that anyone would buy. If people want a high end volume there is a lot of stuff available for passive. The only way for me to offer a preamp is to make it powered, so I'm not dealing with the choice between it and Chinese things on eBay.
There are things out there that allow people to "downgrade" and save $. I know a guy who had Devialet $10k amp, and decided mine was good enough that he didn't need it anymore. You can imagine the savings since he's good at DIY.
What I would suggest is to not see passive in competition per se with active. My suggestion would be if you have a nice preamp that's active, swap the pot in it for an eBay DACT, Goldpoint, Kuzman, or DACT (danish). Dynaco had offered the upgrade for the Chinese DACT for awhile because it's the only substantial upgrade they've had in, I dunno? Decades? But they recently just redid themselves so now the amps are just as-is, no retro stuff.
Sometimes we got hooked on actives just because they sounded different, and we don't recall attributes that may have been better without. Sometimes some stereos flat out need gain.
When I had my Reference Line preeminence passive preamp- everything in it was point to point wiring w/o circuit boards. I'm quite sure this gave it more transparency. I see a lot written about the pot which is critical for sure, but also think the point to point wiring (with good wire) is also a big contributor to the sound.
What I think I need is:
- Two XLR outputs
- one single ended input
- one xlr input
- high quality pot
-point to point wiring
wondering if this can be had for $250 or less... what do you think?
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So you cannot match the $200 Dact passive that you showed us on Ebay? $700 for an Original Dact passive? You could offer special orders or sell them one at a time on Ebay. I sell more used audio gear on Ebay than anywhere else.
The TBI chip amp with improved PSU will beat a Devialet IMO. It is more musical.
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Sumoking, Maybe? It would take a minimum order. And point to point raises the price over a PCB and PCB mounted stuff. Making it work with balanced is an extra step for sure, because you need a double eBay DACT.
You realize you if you have single ended input then you would have single ended output, right? I'm not sure I follow your reasoning behind input/output. To me it seems like the nob got that right.
To me the $200 unit is a great buy. It uses a PCB.
The DACT (danish) unit alone is $410 before an enclosure etc, if you want balanced.
You guys might be confusing whether or not something can be made, and whether or not I have any desire to make $20 a sale while taking on emails and shipping... To someone in China that's a sweet pay, here it's kind of a burden. I don't mind taking on some burden for people that want to DIY, but for finished products I feel very differently.
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Just asking. The guy in england the sells Tisbury for $200+ including shipping has sold 768 of them. He sold two yesterday.
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One more question on the China dact like. Do I need 1 or two volume controls? How is the balance at very low levels?
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1 for SE
I found balanced to be pretty good, but I've never used the lower level of it because my speakers are not sensitive enough for that. Matching the impedance helps with that.
That's cool for the Tisbury guy. That's pretty good. His is a little more advanced with selection options to tune it. Maybe I'll look into making one, more so.
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Just when I was going to go on the Dact bandwagon. So how was the sound in comparison to others?
Other passive preamps? I don't know, I didn't build any others.
BTW with regard to the gain thing, someone DIYing can always put a series resistor and wire the attenuator in shunt.
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Tisbury preamp, below:
[Big IMG] https://www.tisburyaudio.co.uk/images/products/mini-passive-preamp-4.jpg
Years ago I exchanged emails, shortly after the first version came out, without the attenuators and when the headphone amp (out).
In my house, with "tons" of RF/EMI in electrical grid and in the atmosphere too I need case with steel walls or thick aluminum walls.
Well, or the audio furniture, wood shelf with 1mm galvanized steel sheet glued below (and hidden) with silicone or equivalent. It is what I did in my first audio system, the most expensive but kidnapped for other purposes and the family -> I have a cheap second audio system, with PC, only to me (connected to the first via WiFi, up to 24/192).
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The problem with the below attenuators will be if you often alternate recordings with high DR and low DR (modern/commercial music).
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Sumoking, Maybe? It would take a minimum order. And point to point raises the price over a PCB and PCB mounted stuff. Making it work with balanced is an extra step for sure, because you need a double eBay DACT.
You realize you if you have single ended input then you would have single ended output, right? I'm not sure I follow your reasoning behind input/output. To me it seems like the nob got that right.
To me the $200 unit is a great buy. It uses a PCB.
The DACT (danish) unit alone is $410 before an enclosure etc, if you want balanced.
You guys might be confusing whether or not something can be made, and whether or not I have any desire to make $20 a sale while taking on emails and shipping... To someone in China that's a sweet pay, here it's kind of a burden. I don't mind taking on some burden for people that want to DIY, but for finished products I feel very differently.
Folsom-
I saw a unit that was around $150, not $200. Did I miss it?
The Nob works fantastic for the buck, but I need two XLR outputs, one for amp and one for sub. Now my signal is going through the sub and back to my amp. This isn't the cleanest path, plus I know point to point will also clean things up again. With a better pot, now I have three improvements that will add up to a significant upgrade IMO.
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Folsom-
I saw a unit that was around $150, not $200. Did I miss it?
The Nob works fantastic for the buck, but I need two XLR outputs, one for amp and one for sub. Now my signal is going through the sub and back to my amp. This isn't the cleanest path, plus I know point to point will also clean things up again. With a better pot, now I have three improvements that will add up to a significant upgrade IMO.
Nobsound also makes this XLR splitter.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7P7366/ref=twister_B07G525RS7?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
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BTW with regard to the gain thing, someone DIYing can always put a series resistor and wire the attenuator in shunt.
That is good to know. I always thought speakers like Magnepan or Acoustat needed the extra gain of a preamp.
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I would offer some technical details regarding "passive" preamps.
The major function of a preamp is to even out output impedance and to drive interconnect cables between preamp and your amplifier. Believe it or not, those interconnects act as a sort of capacitor which, coupled with output and input impedance, forms a variable RC filter that may affect frequency response in extreme cases of impedance mismatch.
A volume pot with no driving buffer followed by a shielded interconnect of significant length may impact sound quality, especially if source output impedance is high enough and amp input impedance is low enough, such as in most solid state gear.
Tortuga offers "constant impedance" volume control of around 8-10k that requires output impedance of around 600ohm-1kOhm to drive a typical 26k input stage. 50k pot requires 47k input impedance at minimum, 100k pot is only suitable for tube amplifiers.
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Tortuga offers "constant impedance" volume control of around 8-10k that requires output impedance of around 600ohm-1kOhm to drive a typical 26k input stage. 50k pot requires 47k input impedance at minimum, 100k pot is only suitable for tube amplifiers.
This sounds a little confusing since you mention output impedance numbers then jump to input impedance, I assume for an amp. So to clarify, an 8-10K pot (or equivalent with Tortuga) is good for, but not limited to, 600-1k output impedance for low input impedance amps like say a 26k Class D. A 50k pot or equivalent is good for an amp that has ~47k input impedance, and a 100k pot for amps with even higher input impedances, typically tube amps.
Is this what you're saying?
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I would offer some technical details regarding "passive" preamps.
The major function of a preamp is to even out output impedance and to drive interconnect cables between preamp and your amplifier. Believe it or not, those interconnects act as a sort of capacitor which, coupled with output and input impedance, forms a variable RC filter that may affect frequency response in extreme cases of impedance mismatch.
A volume pot with no driving buffer followed by a shielded interconnect of significant length may impact sound quality, especially if source output impedance is high enough and amp input impedance is low enough, such as in most solid state gear.
Tortuga offers "constant impedance" volume control of around 8-10k that requires output impedance of around 600ohm-1kOhm to drive a typical 26k input stage. 50k pot requires 47k input impedance at minimum, 100k pot is only suitable for tube amplifiers.
Rex will sell you his Totuga if you need one.
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Rex will sell you his Totuga if you need one.
Who da *** is Rex?
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My buddy Norm says that's a good question.
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This sounds a little confusing since you mention output impedance numbers then jump to input impedance, I assume for an amp. So to clarify, an 8-10K pot (or equivalent with Tortuga) is good for, but not limited to, 600-1k output impedance for low input impedance amps like say a 26k Class D. A 50k pot or equivalent is good for an amp that has ~47k input impedance, and a 100k pot for amps with even higher input impedances, typically tube amps.
Is this what you're saying?
In general terms, yes.
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Who da *** is Rex?
A friend I have known for 45 years. I first met him when I was in the audio business. He bought a pair of Futterman amps to run his Quad 63's. At one time, Rex owned stacked quads, Magnepans, Rethms, actually too many to remember. Rex has probably owned more audio equipment than anyone here. Or close to it. Rex loves remote control, but SQ always comes first. He said he could tape a long pole to the Nobsound volume control for his remote. Rex has owned passive preamps for at least the last 35 years. More than anyone else here?
Audio has been Rex's fiirst love and also a straight shooter. Any advice he has given me, I always take it to the bank. He has never been wrong.
The Nobound also beats his LDR Warp speed if anyone wants one. Are you interested in Rex's Tortuga?
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Are you interested in Rex's Tortuga?
Nope. I built dozens of Tortugas over the years. It is excellent with tube amplifiers, none of which I own at the time.
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My buddy Norm says that's a good question.
Ok, that made me laugh for a good minute.
(sorry Tom!)
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Nobsound also makes this XLR splitter.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7P7366/ref=twister_B07G525RS7?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
Yes, but I need two XLR outputs in parallel. I believe
That the device you sent me has a switch and one xlr works or the other xlr
Works... correct?
Thank you.
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Ok, that made me laugh for a good minute.
(sorry Tom!)
LOL
Sorry, no more Rex stories.
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I would offer some technical details regarding "passive" preamps.
The major function of a preamp is to even out output impedance and to drive interconnect cables between preamp and your amplifier. Believe it or not, those interconnects act as a sort of capacitor which, coupled with output and input impedance, forms a variable RC filter that may affect frequency response in extreme cases of impedance mismatch.
A volume pot with no driving buffer followed by a shielded interconnect of significant length may impact sound quality, especially if source output impedance is high enough and amp input impedance is low enough, such as in most solid state gear.
Tortuga offers "constant impedance" volume control of around 8-10k that requires output impedance of around 600ohm-1kOhm to drive a typical 26k input stage. 50k pot requires 47k input impedance at minimum, 100k pot is only suitable for tube amplifiers.
Skeptical? So was Rex a friend. It took him three months before he bought a Nobsound.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188593)
A better bargain? Who's to say. But at $3.97, it performs the same function and might be worth a shot. You could also put a DACT attenuator into it for $20 and still be ahead.
LINK (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Home-Audio-Amplifier-Bass-RCA-Gain-Level-Volume-Control-Knob-LC-1-Black-LW/172339259547?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3Dc702dae867a14f9fa7f5f1c263dbc288%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D172339259547%26itm%3D172339259547&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507)
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Skeptical? So was Rex a friend. It took him three months before he bought a Nobsound.
And may happiness be upon you both
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Just iin case $56 is too cheap for people to buy, this looks like a must have for me that I just now found. A custom made remote passive for $248. Best deal I have found on the internet so far.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9997h-idiom-sspp-1-solid-state
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Thank you!
What is the significance/value of a shunt ?
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It's a way of wiring an attenuator, done from scratch it's cheaper than a ladder but still has just two resistors in the signal path - see http://www.goldpt.com/attenuator_types.html
You can wire a series attenuator as the shunt element, some claim it sounds better. See Figure 4 here: http://www.moxtone.com/O_stupnjevitom_atenuatoru_2.htm (sorry, that schematic is somewhat complicated, haven't yet found a diagram for the basic connection)
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An interesting review and measurements of the $49 Schitt Sys.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-sys-passive-pre-amp-switcher.2335/
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It's a way of wiring an attenuator, done from scratch it's cheaper than a ladder but still has just two resistors in the signal path - see http://www.goldpt.com/attenuator_types.html
You can wire a series attenuator as the shunt element, some claim it sounds better. See Figure 4 here: http://www.moxtone.com/O_stupnjevitom_atenuatoru_2.htm
What you're describing is essentially what Luminous Audio has been doing for a few years now, right? I haven't heard one of these Axiom preamps, but it makes sense it would work well...especially since they match the resistor value to work with the customer's system, on an individual basis (ie the right way).
https://luminousaudio.com/collections/axiom-ii-passive-preamp
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It's been around for ages. Although what I was really trying to describe is doing it with a stepped series attenuator, not with a potentiometer. A manufacturer wouldn't (I hope) do it (with a stepped series attenuator) but it's useful for a DIYer because you can use off-the-shelf stepped attenuators.
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it's useful for a DIYer because you can use off-the-shelf stepped attenuators.
I should add "cheap" there, as these days if you are more upmarket in your attenuator selection you can buy shunt attenuators off the shelf eg khozmo.
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Just iin case $56 is too cheap for people to buy, this looks like a must have for me that I just now found. A custom made remote passive for $248. Best deal I have found on the internet so far.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9997h-idiom-sspp-1-solid-state
Looks nice but if wanting a remote I'd be more inclined to skip the motorized alps and go for one of the PGA2310/11 preamps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/hifi-PGA2311-Stero-Remote-Volume-Controller-audio-Preamp-pre-amplifier-with-MUTE-/142620463324
They eliminate a physical pot altogether and I was impressed with mine (granted, I modded it of course). I compared with the chinese DACT and the DACT was only a little better. Lot of cheap preamp options out there!
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Looks nice but if wanting a remote I'd be more inclined to skip the motorized alps and go for one of the PGA2310/11 preamps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/hifi-PGA2311-Stero-Remote-Volume-Controller-audio-Preamp-pre-amplifier-with-MUTE-/142620463324
They eliminate a physical pot altogether and I was impressed with mine (granted, I modded it of course). I compared with the chinese DACT and the DACT was only a little better. Lot of cheap preamp options out there!
Thanks for sharing this. It sure beats the Axiom II price, but that will probably be my last passive. Thanks RDavidson for sharing the Axiom II link.
If everyone could hear a CD player direct into their amp, they would be shocked. I will never understand why people buy an expensive DAC with remote volume, and run it through a preamp.
So how much would your mod cost?
When I was running my CD player straight in to the Berning amp, another dealer friend from Iowa stopped in for a visit. He was surprised at the sound I was getting out of my system.
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Thanks for sharing this. It sure beats the Axiom II price, but that will probably be my last passive. If everyone could hear a CD player direct into their amp, they would be shocked. I will never understand why people buy an expensive DAC with remote volume, and run it through a preamp.
So how much would your mod cost?
When I was running my CD player straight in to the Berning amp, another dealer friend from Iowa stopped in for a visit. He was surprised at the sound I was getting out of my system.
I've run a phono pre amp into a active near field with gain adjustment in the back. it didn't go down low enough but it was the best sound i have heard from the turntable/phono pre.
Yes to bypass all the cables and components makes a difference.
RE: Chinese DACT attenuator copies: I have tried a 10K version and while it is good it still didn't beat the slagle/intact audio autoformer it did sound just as good as an active pre.
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Always, always , get a second opinion. :thumb:
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/12/30/mini-review-luminous-audio-axiom-ii-walker-mod/
And another.
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/luminous-audio-technology-axiom-ii-passive-preamplifier/
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You'll often hear people say that although they loved the transparency they missed the 'drive' or 'punch' of an active pre. Usually that's because of impedance mismatch, depending upon their gear. For those folks an autoformer or transformer based passive usually sounds better than just a switcher be it stepped or not. That's when the price starts going up.
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OK plugged the sucker in. To my surprise out of box VG sound. If one uses an SET amp with low input sensitivity and a DAC with a 3V output or more this baby is for you. Big open sound. Transparent to source and DEAD quite.
Compared to my Lamm bass MIA, harmonics lacking at extremes, less decay of harmonic and a bit hard and lean. The Lamm gives ya 1 thru 10 the passive 3 thru 8. For $56 a no brainer.
charles
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Always, always , get a second opinion. :thumb:
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/12/30/mini-review-luminous-audio-axiom-ii-walker-mod/
And another.
https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/luminous-audio-technology-axiom-ii-passive-preamplifier/
I like what The Part Time Audio dude has to say. The only thing incorrect in his review is that he says the Wyred 4 Sound STP SE is passive. It is not. It uses active SS buffers at both its input and output stages as a means of alleviating possible gain and impedance mismatches. So...it is really a unity gain active until one gets into the upper registers of the volume control where it applies a smidge more output gain.
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You'll often hear people say that although they loved the transparency they missed the 'drive' or 'punch' of an active pre. Usually that's because of impedance mismatch, depending upon their gear. For those folks an autoformer or transformer based passive usually sounds better than just a switcher be it stepped or not. That's when the price starts going up.
Agree with that.
charles
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I have been intrigued for some time with cermet pot, which some recommend but others deny.
What do you think about them? Best company?
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output-post5652078.html
It was Hugh's FAQ's that originally put me onto the Cermet pots (search the page for "cermet"). I meant to use this model pot (https://za.rs-online.com/web/p/potentiometers/7899434/) from RS, but it was out of stock and then I got a slightly different version - with plastic shaft, but still Bourns.
(https://media.rs-online.com/t_large/R7899422-01.jpg)
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OK plugged the sucker in. To my surprise out of box VG sound. If one uses an SET amp with low input sensitivity and a DAC with a 3V output or more this baby is for you. Big open sound. Transparent to source and DEAD quite.
Compared to my Lamm bass MIA, harmonics lacking at extremes, less decay of harmonic and a bit hard and lean. The Lamm gives ya 1 thru 10 the passive 3 thru 8. For $56 a no brainer.
charles
I was really surprised myself.
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Anyone open the nobsound and verify the Alps pot ?
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If everyone could hear a CD player direct into their amp, they would be shocked. I will never understand why people buy an expensive DAC with remote volume, and run it through a preamp.
I have a DAC with a very nice volume control that also allows you to run fixed gain into a preamp. The system sounds great just running the DAC into the amp, but alas I also have a turntable so I need the preamp for phono pre and switching facilities. It can run active or passive and I generally run it passive, occasionally switching to active for cheap thrills. But you're right, the most direct path sounds best.
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I nominate Rollo as the most honest dealer in the world award. I doubt if you will ever find another that will compare a $20K plus preamp to a $56 passive and give an honest review like he did. I wondered how much it would cost to beat this passive. Now I know.
If Charles sells any equipment you want to buy, buy it from him. You cannot go wrong. :thumb:
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You'll often hear people say that although they loved the transparency they missed the 'drive' or 'punch' of an active pre. Usually that's because of impedance mismatch, depending upon their gear. For those folks an autoformer or transformer based passive usually sounds better than just a switcher be it stepped or not. That's when the price starts going up.
I looked up the transformer based units. 30K for the Vivaldi? :o
How does this one look to you?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AM-Audio-Music-passive-preamp-TVC-Type-transformers-Volume-control/192229314729?hash=item2cc1c290a9:g:A~UAAOSwyZ5UoGzF:rk:1:pf:0
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Looks great, but out of pricing guidelines. That doesn't mean someone can't try it.
I've met Charles (rollo) a couple times at audio shows, everyone instantly likes him.
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I nominate Rollo as the most honest dealer in the world award. I doubt if you will ever find another that will compare a $20K plus preamp to a $56 passive and give an honest review like he did. I wondered how much it would cost to beat this passive. Now I know.
If Charles sells any equipment you want to buy, buy it from him. You cannot go wrong. :thumb:
Exactly the purpose of my post. You have to spend significant money
To beat this little baby. $56. FANTASTIC BARGAIN.
To many folks, you should sell your name brand preamp and use
your money on speakers, DAC or a better amp.
Cheers .
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Thanks for the kind words Guys. I am an Audiophile before I'm a dealer. Buying another passive to try a dual mono configuration. The passive is changing as it breaks in. I would suggest 100 hours to burn in path of least resistance and the connectors. Some weight on top helps as well.
With 50 hours in the hardness is lessened and beginning to open up more sound stage wise and the bass is no longer MIA. If this passive thing catches you search out Stevens and Billington [ copper trannies ] and Slagleformers.
charles
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I looked up the transformer based units. 30K for the Vivaldi? :o
How does this one look to you?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AM-Audio-Music-passive-preamp-TVC-Type-transformers-Volume-control/192229314729?hash=item2cc1c290a9:g:A~UAAOSwyZ5UoGzF:rk:1:pf:0
I remember Promethius used to have a circle here selling TVC models for about $300. I was thinking then about trying one but he shut down for awhile.
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It seems like the Promitheus web site is still up. I wonder if they are still taking orders.
http://promitheusaudio.com/
David
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Used to sell Promithius as I was his partner for a short time. Still a fine product colored warm.
charles
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OK guys it takes 200 hours for this little guy to sound its best. Bought another to try dual mono as my main rig is such all the way. It was a bit hard and bright later on then at 200 stopped changing.
Set up another system using a Dennis Had Inspire amp [4W], Omega speakers [ Fostex driver], Sony CDP as transport and tubed DAC. Pretty darn good guys.
charles
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Also try reversing phase at both speakers. This should give even a bigger soundstage. Anthony Gallo said years ago that most amps inverts phase.
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This is what the Nobsoind looks like inside.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188746)
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Also try reversing phase at both speakers. This should give even a bigger soundstage. Anthony Gallo said years ago that most amps inverts phase.
I don't think what Mr. Gallo says is really true (at least not anymore), BUT worth trying. Shouldn't hurt anything. I think older amps, particularly tube amps were somewhat notorious for this. Some preamps invert phase too. I've experienced this myself with a tube preamp.
You'll know your amp (or possibly other upstream components) do not invert phase if the soundstage is diffused and completely lacks focus / image lock when you invert your speaker cables. If the sound stage is focused via "normal" cable setup, then the amp does not invert phase.
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Installed the second one yesterday. Bigger stage, more open and better focused. Buy two for dual mono cheap enough.
charles
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Installed the second one yesterday. Bigger stage, more open and better focused. Buy two for dual mono cheap enough.
charles
How do you ‘balance’ the left and right channel? (Level match the two) By ear?
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Independent measurements of the Nobsound vs. Goldpoint SA2X passive.
https://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/goldpoint-sa2x-nobsound-ns-05p-passive-attenuator-comparison-technical-measurements.7324/
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:scratch: :scratch:
That's a very strange test, as one is 10k and the other is 50k.
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:scratch: :scratch:
That's a very strange test, as one is 10k and the other is 50k.
Yeah. It's interesting info but without discussing impact of output impedance between the two it's not that helpful.
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Yeah. It's interesting info but without discussing impact of output impedance between the two it's not that helpful.
Actually some of the info is very helpful even in a general sense. The issue of channel imbalance is a biggie that can occur regardless of 10k or 50k smooth pots. But as the author states, all this is very YMMV. The Nobsound is inexpensive enough to experiment with, which is always the best way to go especially if you don't fully understand the electrical parameters of your gear and how they interact. Then you factor in cables and man...things get really complex. It's easy to understand why this is a rather misunderstood topic even for veterans in this hobby.
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Actually some of the info is very helpful even in a general sense. The issue of channel imbalance is a biggie that can occur regardless of 10k or 50k smooth pots. But as the author states, all this is very YMMV. The Nobsound is inexpensive enough to experiment with, which is always the best way to go especially if you don't fully understand the electrical parameters of your gear and how they interact. Then you factor in cables and man...things get really complex. It's easy to understand why this is a rather misunderstood topic even for veterans in this hobby.
It's good to see concrete assessment of channel imbalance on those kinds of pots. I used to think I was crazy when I first made my own passives and the channels weren't uniform at lower levels. Then I figured it out and thankfully the Chinese dact knock offs were just hitting the market and I never looked back.
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This is what the Nobsoind looks like inside.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188746)
Wait... is that the actual unit you have? Because that's not an RK27 :scratch: (as in the review linked)
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Actually some of the info is very helpful even in a general sense.
Yes but one must be extra careful to identify what is caused by the nature of the attenuator and what is simply caused by the different impedance. However agree with you and wushuliu, the plot of imbalance is interesting. Alps spec up to 3dB mismatch 0 to 60 dB for the RK27. https://www.alps.com/prod/info/E/PDF/Potentiometer/MetalShaft/RK271/RK271.PDF
But that is not an RK27... I'm not able to find a spec for the RK09. At any rate, it's within the RK27 spec, although I wonder if the balanced configuration tends to even things out.
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Wait... is that the actual unit you have? Because that's not an RK27 :scratch: (as in the review linked)
I'll ask my buddy Rex
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I'll ask my buddy Rex
There is a jokester in every crowd. :lol:
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Wait... is that the actual unit you have? Because that's not an RK27 :scratch: (as in the review linked)
That probably is not the one I have, I am not sure.
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How do you ‘balance’ the left and right channel? (Level match the two) By ear?
I have two options. If using music server I run them full gain and adjust volume of server though ipad [ iPeng] or if using TT or CD transport adjust by ear easy enough. Actually a benefit if any balancing of channels is required.
If using two separate from each other sounds better [ no stacking]
charles
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I gabbed a used Tisbury off of Ebay and have been listening for a week, these are very hard to find used. And I like this vey much. Top to bottom it beats the Nobsound, more air, ambiance, bass, and naturalness. This passive has more detail, but at the same time, more tube like. I switched back to the Nobsound for just a few minutes, the Tisbury is it. For the asking price, it is highly recommended.
Thank you Folsom and Wushulu for the advice.
I am still waiting for the $99 Dact type from Hong Kong, I will see if it sounds the same. I imagine it will.
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I gabbed a used Tisbury off of Ebay and have been listening for a week, these are very hard to find used. And I like this vey much. Top to bottom it beats the Nobsound, more air, ambiance, bass, and naturalness. This passive has more detail, but at the same time, more tube like. I switched back to the Nobsound for just a few minutes, the Tisbury is it. For the asking price, it is highly recommended.
Thank you Folsom and Wushulu for the advice.
I am still waiting for the $99 Dact type from Hong Kong, I will see if it sounds the same. I imagine it will.
Did you get this one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tisbury-Audio-Mini-Passive-Preamp-II-Pre-Amplifier-Switch-Box-Attenuator/171062829201?epid=2271710534&hash=item27d423a091:g:jWoAAOSwBahVaePS:rk:1:pf:1
Thank you.
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Did you get this one?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tisbury-Audio-Mini-Passive-Preamp-II-Pre-Amplifier-Switch-Box-Attenuator/171062829201?epid=2271710534&hash=item27d423a091:g:jWoAAOSwBahVaePS:rk:1:pf:1
Thank you.
Yes.
This is the one I am waiting on.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?hash=item2cbc002bab:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON:rk:1:pf:1
The Tisbury has -10db and -20db settings. The Tisbury is also well balanced at very low volume settings which I like very much.
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Yes.
This is the one I am waiting on.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?hash=item2cbc002bab:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON:rk:1:pf:1
The Tisbury has -10db and -20db settings. The Tisbury is also well balanced at very low volume settings which I like very much.
Thanks for posting!
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Yes.
This is the one I am waiting on.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?hash=item2cbc002bab:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON:rk:1:pf:1
The Tisbury has -10db and -20db settings. The Tisbury is also well balanced at very low volume settings which I like very much.
Please let us know how they compare.
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I've been enjoying a passive attenuator in front of my TPA3116
I got some "inspiration" from here...
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=3917.0
Its got nudes. Lots of nudes.
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I got the Hong Kong passive in and how very nice. I will call it the HKP for short.
Build quality, much better than the NBobsound and Tisbury. It is about 3-4 times larger than the Nobsound and 2-3 times larger than the Tisbury. If you hook a lot of cables up, much less likely to move around. Out of the box, the HKP sounded equal to the Tisbury. While breaking in, it has surpassed the Tisbury. The HKP has audiophile grade wiring, the Tisbury does not.
Instead of buying one Tisbury for $200, get two HKP for $200 and run them dual mono. This passive is a huge steal at only $99.
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I got the Hong Kong passive in and how very nice. I will call it the HKP for short.
Build quality, much better than the NBobsound and Tisbury. It is about 3-4 times larger than the Nobsound and 2-3 times larger than the Tisbury. If you hook a lot of cables up, much less likely to move around. Out of the box, the HKP sounded equal to the Tisbury. While breaking in, it has surpassed the Tisbury. The HKP has audiophile grade wiring, the Tisbury does not.
Instead of buying one Tisbury for $200, get two HKP for $200 and run them dual mono. This passive is a huge steal at only $99.
Yes two is better than one. I'm a dual mono kind of Guy.
charles
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Is the HKP the unit you linked to on Ebay?
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Is the HKP the unit you linked to on Ebay?
Yes
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Does a passive pre like you are linking add gain or can only cut gain from the source?
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No gain added. that is why passives are so great in SQ.
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I'm running a passive pre (shunt) with a takman rex as the series element.
Tried a few other resistors, but this one (to my ears) comes up top. Most of the time.
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by maf_au
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analog-line-level/314563-aksas-lender-preamp-40vpp-output-post5681698.html
The cheap DACT type attenuator finally arrived today. Sounds a bit better than the ALPS [green RK9] Potentiometer. Have them set so can swap them easy to test them.
Still waiting for the Mundorf Caps. Might add some caps (10u0, C1022,C1032) while waiting. If I run the volume up, the sound is crackling!!!
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/AKSA-Lender-cheap-chinese-DACT.jpg)
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Can someone help with getting more volume from the knob sound . I can max out the volume on softer recordings . Would the resistor being replaced with a different value help ? If so what value ? Thanks,mike.
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I have always wanted to try the cheap DACT type attenuator that seems to get good reviews, so I added one to an input selector box I built awhile ago. My new cheap and cheerful 3 input passive preamp sounds really good with the DACT type attenuator.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190277)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190278)
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I listened to behringer monitor2usb monitor controller with emotiva stealth 8, and i thought it sounded fantastic for ~$150. Not sure what type of volume control is used inside, but it moves in discrete steps like stepped attenuator.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MONITOR2USB--behringer-monitor2usb
Description says that that it uses voltage controlled amplifier which to me means that it is similar to the gain knob on some of the amplifiers. I thought that sound was clean devoid of any hiss, and very dynamic with tons of details and bass. Pair it with a nice balanced dac (massdrop sells one for $150), and you've an absolutely cheap and very cheerful unit.
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I've been listening to the HKP for a few weeks now and it's everything I hoped it would be. It's quite large for a passive but exudes quality. The pot is velvety smooth with nice detent. No need for me to ever look at other passives.
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I think that the HKP passive sounds so good because it uses the DACT type attenuator It's the exact same attenuator I used for the one I built which came from the same E-bay seller. It's a pretty easy build for about $50 to build one with 3 inputs using the Glassware Audio selector switch which has it's own PCB to facilitate wiring.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-volume-control/190844814249?epid=1131603722&hash=item2c6f3cc3a9:g:sCIAAOxyg6BR3Eaj&frcectupt=true
https://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/inseswandpcb.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-76-35mm-Aluminum-PCB-Instrument-Box-Enclosure-Electronic-Project-Case-Black/323357474036?
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/neutrik/nys367-2/70549464/?
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I think that the HKP passive sounds so good because it uses the DACT type attenuator It's the exact same attenuator I used for the one I built which came from the same E-bay seller. It's a pretty easy build for about $50 to build one with 3 inputs using the Glassware Audio selector switch which has it's own PCB to facilitate wiring.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-volume-control/190844814249?epid=1131603722&hash=item2c6f3cc3a9:g:sCIAAOxyg6BR3Eaj&frcectupt=true
https://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/inseswandpcb.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-76-35mm-Aluminum-PCB-Instrument-Box-Enclosure-Electronic-Project-Case-Black/323357474036?
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/neutrik/nys367-2/70549464/?
How difficult would it be to make one with remote capability?
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How difficult would it be to make one with remote capability?
Very. That is to say, not possible.
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Very. That is to say, not possible.
Thanks. Going back to the channel imbalance issue with certain passives, is it just a lack of synergy with some systems or is it the quality of the passive itself? I’ve had a Schiit Saga that has always had some amount of channel imbalance and recently it’s pretty bad where the left channel is around 3 db’s louder than the right at any volume level. I sent it to Schiit recently because the tube output was not working and told them about the left channel and when I got it back it still registers the 3 dB difference.
When I use a cheap Little Bear passive I get the right channel louder at around 1.5 dB. Same amp and dac and cables used for both the Saga and LB. Is this more of a system matching thing you think? When I use the same dac and cables with my Melody integrated it’s perfectly balanced.
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No imbalance on the HKP that I found.
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Thanks. Going back to the channel imbalance issue with certain passives, is it just a lack of synergy with some systems or is it the quality of the passive itself? I’ve had a Schiit Saga that has always had some amount of channel imbalance and recently it’s pretty bad where the left channel is around 3 db’s louder than the right at any volume level. I sent it to Schiit recently because the tube output was not working and told them about the left channel and when I got it back it still registers the 3 dB difference.
When I use a cheap Little Bear passive I get the right channel louder at around 1.5 dB. Same amp and dac and cables used for both the Saga and LB. Is this more of a system matching thing you think? When I use the same dac and cables with my Melody integrated it’s perfectly balanced.
Hopefully someone will chime in with the technical explanation but it's not synergy or quality so much as inherent limitation in typical volume pots, which usually use wipers. Getting the resistance to match on left and right especially at low volumes becomes difficult. Whereas Dact and stepped pots have closely matched resistor values at each step.
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Hopefully someone will chime in with the technical explanation but it's not synergy or quality so much as inherent limitation in typical volume pots, which usually use wipers. Getting the resistance to match on left and right especially at low volumes becomes difficult. Whereas Dact and stepped pots have closely matched resistor values at each step.
Not technical, maybe the alps pot? My $1800 IFI Pro Ican preamp had an imbalance and it had an Alps Pot. But that was at very low volume settings.
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Not technical, maybe the alps pot? My $1800 IFI Pro Ican preamp had an imbalance and it had an Alps Pot.
Alps is a carbon wiper pot like most others. Every such pot I've used had some degree of imbalance. Some are better than others, and quality control can mitigate I presume but it's an issue regardless of brand, hence the popularity of DACT or chip based like pga2310 etc.
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I keep going back and forth on this. I'm currently using a Tortuga passive but am impressed by the fact that the Nobsound, Tisbury and especially the HKP beat it in listening tests. But like Tomy2Tone, I want a remote and was leaning towards a Saga, until Tomy2Tone mentioned the channel imbalance issue his has - so does my Tortuga. The one passive that I've read nothing but praise for, and that includes a remote for under a grand is the Luminous Audio Axiom II with the Walker mod, mentioned earlier in this thread. It seems to be really strong in all of the areas tat are important to me. I'm thinking that will be my next purchase, although it won't be until after a 3 month home remodel that starts in 2 weeks.
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I have been using my DIY shunt type passive preamp with an Alps pot for quite awhile. This is the same design type used in the Lumious Axiom. Just recently I built the HKP passive preamp clone using the DACT type pot from HKP. I am currently doing a comparison swapping the two passives back and forth.
Here's how Lumnious describes theirs:
The AXIOM II passive preamplifier is in a class by itself. This is a fixed series/variable shunt device. In layman's terms this means the audio signal does not actually flow through the volume control. The signal flows through one high quality resistor and the amplifier's inputs are shunted to ground via the AXIOM II'S ALPS potentiometer. The variable shunt technology allows control over the volume without the signal flowing through the actual volume pot that most audiophiles know is the weakest link in most preamp circuits. The degree in which the pot "allows" signal into the amplifier is simply what allows the customer control over his/her volume.[/]
(https://i.imgur.com/benq3tg.jpg?1)
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I have been using my DIY shunt type passive preamp with an Alps pot for quite awhile. This is the same design type used in the Lumious Axiom. Just recently I built the HKP passive preamp clone using the DACT type pot from HKP. I am currently doing a comparison swapping the two passives back and forth.
Here's how Lumnious describes theirs:
The AXIOM II passive preamplifier is in a class by itself. This is a fixed series/variable shunt device. In layman's terms this means the audio signal does not actually flow through the volume control. The signal flows through one high quality resistor and the amplifier's inputs are shunted to ground via the AXIOM II'S ALPS potentiometer. The variable shunt technology allows control over the volume without the signal flowing through the actual volume pot that most audiophiles know is the weakest link in most preamp circuits. The degree in which the pot "allows" signal into the amplifier is simply what allows the customer control over his/her volume.[/]
(https://i.imgur.com/benq3tg.jpg?1)
:popcorn:
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These things are so cheap that if you want to get rid of the channel imbalance situation that some exhibit, just buy a second unit and run them dual mono. I've done that with my Schiit SYS and not only does it allow me to precisely balance the channels by getting the vocalists really centered, but the dual mono set up opens up the soundstage too.
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These things are so cheap that if you want to get rid of the channel imbalance situation that some exhibit, just buy a second unit and run them dual mono. I've done that with my Schiit SYS and not only does it allow me to precisely balance the channels by getting the vocalists really centered, but the dual mono set up opens up the soundstage too.
I'm thinking of doing just that to try.
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Hello,
Does the HKP have a websie?
Thanks,
drmike
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Hello,
Does the HKP have a websie?
Thanks,
drmike
On Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
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On the remote front... theres something like this. :lol:
(http://www.chronosmith.com/images/Audio/creek.jpg)
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Genius!
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BRILLIANT ^^^^
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Now I will try two nobsounds with that method
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Here ya go gang. Just add a rubber band.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Creek-OBH-12-Passive-Preamp-Volume-Control-with-Power-Supply-Remote/323723553660?hash=item4b5f6d6b7c:g:t5YAAOSwmxVcfwcg
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Here is one on Mpls Mn Craigs if a second is needed
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/d/minneapolis-creek-obh-12-passive-preamp/6838318530.html
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I wonder how that Creek passive sounds?
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I am stepping up and trying a Shirt Freya . Should arrive Monday . Anyone have experience with it ?
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There's a thread about it here, please go there for this non-C&C non-passive preamp - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149928.0
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Would someone with the HKP post some photos of the innards?
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Would someone with the HKP post some photos of the innards?
I’ll post a pick when I get mine. I just ordered one a few days ago so it might be a while.
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Yes.
This is the one I am waiting on.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?hash=item2cbc002bab:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON:rk:1:pf:1 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?hash=item2cbc002bab:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON:rk:1:pf:1)
I just got mine in. Quickly hooked it up cold (still a bit chilly metal). Impressions? In a day or two or three....
Left from Hong Kong only 9 days ago. Impressive.
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I just got mine in. Quickly hooked it up cold (still a bit chilly metal). Impressions? In a day or two or three....
Left from Hong Kong only 9 days ago. Impressive.
That didn’t take long! Hope mine gets here just as fast.
What other passives if any have you tried before?
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That didn’t long! Hope mine gets here just as fast.
What other passives if any have you tried before?
I live in Utah, so there's that to consider for delivery time.
None. I've generally follow the advice of Frank Van Alstine and he's not really into passives - the possibility of garbage/distortions being dumped into amps, i.e. active pre-amps filter out the "garbage."
Also, forgot to mention. This passive used to have one XLR input and output and a RCA input and output, now it only has 4 RCA inputs and 2 outputs. Plus it's bigger, i.e. much longer than I thought based on the photo.
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The fourth ebay photo has an OzarkTom quote from reply #179 on p.9.
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lacro;
Thanks for posting your pictures and links re: your input switch and DACT attenuator .
I wondered if you preferred your DACT over the ALPS 27 pot ?
Several people have posted positive experiences online with the DACT: and a couple of others have posted about returning to the ALPS after a period of use.
I can't help but noticing that I don't see any mention of the use of the DACT in the build guides at diy audios Pass Lab. Just the ALPS .
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lacro;
Thanks for posting your pictures and links re: your input switch and DACT attenuator .
I wondered if you preferred your DACT over the ALPS 27 pot ?
Several people have posted positive experiences online with the DACT: and a couple of others have posted about returning to the ALPS after a period of use.
I can't help but noticing that I don't see any mention of the use of the DACT in the build guides at diy audios Pass Lab. Just the ALPS .
Nelson isn't fussy about non critical parts and recommends what's easily accessible to most people. The Chinese dacts are based on real DACT pots so I doubt he would recommend them for IP reasons and the real ones are very expensive. These Chinese dacts have been around for years now and used widely in diy. Diyaudio was where they were first discussed IIRC.
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lacro;
Thanks for posting your pictures and links re: your input switch and DACT attenuator .
I wondered if you preferred your DACT over the ALPS 27 pot ?
Several people have posted positive experiences online with the DACT: and a couple of others have posted about returning to the ALPS after a period of use.
I can't help but noticing that I don't see any mention of the use of the DACT in the build guides at diy audios Pass Lab. Just the ALPS .
KR500,
I keep swapping the two in and out, and to be honest, I like them both. They do have a different sound, but I can't really say one is better, just different. Sorry, I am not very good at describing the sound difference.
The Alps 27 in this implementation is not really a good comparison as it's being used in a shunt passive preamp. I don't fully understand the concept of the shunt. It's something I learned about from Hifix, and have been playing with it for a couple years, trying different resistors which do offer different sound. The design as I understand it is based on the Harry Haller circuit where the signal never passes through the attenuator. It only passes through one resistor. I don't know how the Alps 27 pot sounds when wired the conventional way.
They are cheap enough that it's not going to break the bank to try them both.
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Thanks for your comments macro and wushuliu.
I have a Chinese DACT on my Folsom amp and also my Pass B 1 buffer , and then the ALPS 27 on my WHAMMY headphone amp
Both types work well .
I just wanted your thoughts on the two pots I guess .
My next project is a Charlize 2 PCB I bought from someone on Diy audio and I'm deciding which pot , (or pots ) to order for the amp.
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The SMD Dact passive is.... well, it's OK. On my system, the high end/frequencies are more forward with more clarity but ever so slightly harsher (at louder levels) than my Odyssey Tempest. But soundstage isn't as good. They make my system sound more like the music is coming from two speakers without as much depth or layers. I think (though I could be wrong?) it doesn't go as low. The overall bass is much less full across the lower frequencies though tighter (quicker/more "snap") with less wooliness than the Tempest. I think that the Odyssey also sounds smoother overall. I prefer the Odyssey with it's trade-off than with this passive.
I guess this is one of those system dependent pieces.
I also wanted to recommend it with the $30+ Signstek DAC that Wishilu recommended here - except they don't seem to be making that DAC anymore. Regardless, paired with the SMD Passive and the JBL305P MkII - it just doesn't get very loud at all - otherwise I would have recommended this in the Sub $1K systems unless you use it as a desktop computer system - to listen at your desk only!
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My SMD DACT sounds like nothing and that's the highest compliment any passive can receive.
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I believe Charmerci is not referring to a DACT but the "DACT clone" from China. Basically, it seems a stepped attenuator made with SMD resistors is now called a "DACT"....
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Yeah, this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier/192132688811?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
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And the Hong Kong DACT clone is what I have. This is the C&C forum.
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This one seems like a better built one for slightly more.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockappella-Passive-Pre-Amp-Stepped-Attenuator-Preamplifier-Gold-Knob-23-Point-/163009641745 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockappella-Passive-Pre-Amp-Stepped-Attenuator-Preamplifier-Gold-Knob-23-Point-/163009641745)
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Here is a Danish Dact for $350. I think still in the C&C range.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-preamplifier-with-DACT-CT2-attenuator-and-CMC-golden-plated-RCA/202167840390?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
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What the Chinese model offers that the others don't is two outputs, great for bi-amping, plus a third 'record' out that could be used to feed a subwoofer.
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Here is a Danish Dact for $350. I think still in the C&C range.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-preamplifier-with-DACT-CT2-attenuator-and-CMC-golden-plated-RCA/202167840390?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
I thoroughly enjoyed this part of the description:
"Box is made from exotic well sounding wood with wooden legs."
You might not be wrong that this could be a quality unit for the cost, but I would probably recommend something like a Schiit Saga which has a remote for the same price. It's possible the stepped attenuators could be higher quality, but we don't really know.
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What the Chinese model offers that the others don't is two outputs, great for bi-amping, plus a third 'record' out that could be used to feed a subwoofer.
Generally, "Record Out" are fixed level outputs that bypass the volume control, and would not be suitable to feed a subwoofer which would require variable line out.
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I thoroughly enjoyed this part of the description:
"Box is made from exotic well sounding wood with wooden legs."
You might not be wrong that this could be a quality unit for the cost, but I would probably recommend something like a Schiit Saga which has a remote for the same price. It's possible the stepped attenuators could be higher quality, but we don't really know.
For SQ, this will beat the Saga. But with no remote, the Saga will be more popular.
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The seller of the Hong Kong dact actually has several version, click on 'See other items':
regular rca jacks: $99
higher quality cmc rca jacks: $120
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier-with-CMC-RCA-socket/271394425956?hash=item3f305e4c64:g:3W8AAOxyDgRQ9g0e
higher quality stepped attenuator: $150
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-Preamplifier-Stepped-attenuator-passive-preamp/271424718624?hash=item3f322c8720:g:6YcAAMXQ9rVQ6nB9
alps volume pot with xlr: $165
https://www.ebay.com/itm/passive-preamp-XLR-Balance-version-Alps-Volume-pot/272602310760?hash=item3f785d2868:g:emcAAOSwDKtY1FqP
dale resistor attenuator: $199
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-Preamplifier-Dale-Resistor-Stepped-attenuator/271214681553?hash=item3f25a79dd1:g:FI8AAOxySE9Q50ON
David
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The Dale Resistor unit sounds tempting. Here is one you can build.
http://www.hi-fi-insight.com/custom-passive-pre-amp.html
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Generally, "Record Out" are fixed level outputs that bypass the volume control, and would not be suitable to feed a subwoofer which would require variable line out.
Wouldn't a sub's own volume control and crossover work with the bypassed volume control from the dac?
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Wouldn't a sub's own volume control and crossover work with the bypassed volume control from the dac?
Yes, but each and every time you adjusted the preamp's volume control, the subwoofer's volume would remain constant and you would also have to adjust the volume control on the sub.
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Yes, but each and every time you adjusted the preamp's volume control, the subwoofer's volume would remain constant and you would also have to adjust the volume control on the sub.
Yes, that is less than ideal and in fact, that's what I'm doing now. Fortunately I usually just use the same volume so it's not too annoying. :D
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While I love my $56 Nobsound preamp, I will give this other option a try and will report back on how it sounds when it comes in.
I wanted the option on of a 2nd XLR output and wanted to try the better pot. Also, the dual mono configuration should also improve
transparency.
We will see.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-Pre-Amplifiers-RCA-and-XLR-Balance-input-and-output/191443244291?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3Dacf9d4248da44cccaea92521845340e8%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D192229314729%26itm%3D191443244291&_trksid=p2045573.c100667.m2042
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While I love my $56 Nobsound preamp, I will give this other option a try and will report back on how it sounds when it comes in.
I wanted the option on of a 2nd XLR output and wanted to try the better pot. Also, the dual mono configuration should also improve
transparency.
We will see.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-Pre-Amplifiers-RCA-and-XLR-Balance-input-and-output/191443244291?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3Dacf9d4248da44cccaea92521845340e8%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D192229314729%26itm%3D191443244291&_trksid=p2045573.c100667.m2042
Nice find! That looks to be from the same seller as the other smd stepped attenuator mentioned here.
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Thanks TTT-
I figure at $200 its a no brainer. I can also use two preamps anyways and I have a feeling this one is going to improve the system for very little capital.
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And just an FYI, I had originally ordered the other attenuator from that eBay seller but things came up so I ended up cancelling it. The seller was very responsive with their communication and refunded me.
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Nice to hear.
I asked him a lot of questions and received answers right away, so I am encouraged between my experience thus far and yours...
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These passives are so cheap, nice to have a second preamp if yours need service. Right tomy2tone?
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Nelson isn't fussy about non critical parts and recommends what's easily accessible to most people. The Chinese dacts are based on real DACT pots so I doubt he would recommend them for IP reasons and the real ones are very expensive. These Chinese dacts have been around for years now and used widely in diy. Diyaudio was where they were first discussed IIRC.
How is using a Vishay resistor considered IP? I don't think so. :roll: The only "IP" that could be had is the name itself.
The SMD Dact passive is.... well, it's OK. On my system, the high end/frequencies are more forward with more clarity but ever so slightly harsher (at louder levels) than my Odyssey Tempest. But soundstage isn't as good. They make my system sound more like the music is coming from two speakers without as much depth or layers. I think (though I could be wrong?) it doesn't go as low. The overall bass is much less full across the lower frequencies though tighter (quicker/more "snap") with less wooliness than the Tempest. I think that the Odyssey also sounds smoother overall. I prefer the Odyssey with it's trade-off than with this passive.
To me this reads that there's something off in your stereo, not the volume control device. While it may not be perfect, it's better than pots you'll find in the most expensive stereos in the world. But I don't know the details of everything in your stereo so I can't comment for sure as to what's up.
The Dale Resistor unit sounds tempting. Here is one you can build.
http://www.hi-fi-insight.com/custom-passive-pre-amp.html
Be careful, a lot of those switches that you can buy as attenuators with RN's on them are trash. The blue bodied ones on eBay should be tossed in the garbage bin. They make the music sound AWFUL.
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I agree w/ Folsom that the chinese dale resistor attenuators should be approached with caution. The resistors may be fake and the attenuators are clunky and potentially make a large popping sound when switching (I forget the term for it and too lazy to try and remember) IIRC. Some of them anyway.
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To me this reads that there's something off in your stereo, not the volume control device. While it may not be perfect, it's better than pots you'll find in the most expensive stereos in the world. But I don't know the details of everything in your stereo so I can't comment for sure as to what's up.
You can see my system by clicking on my System link to the side. It's been a while, I could try another comparison using the digital out on my CD player/transport directly into the UltraDac - I don't remember if I compared them that way. I know I've done it with my computer>SPDiF converter> Ultra Dac>....
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You can see my system by clicking on my System link to the side. It's been a while, I could try another comparison using the digital out on my CD player/transport directly into the UltraDac - I don't remember if I compared them that way. I know I've done it with my computer>SPDiF converter> Ultra Dac>....
Sent a message on my thoughts.
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Has anyone compared the Chinese passive to a Tisbury passive?
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Has anyone compared the Chinese passive to a Tisbury passive?
I have. Much nicer build, slightly more deatil, and about half the price than the Tisbury.
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They use the same volume device but the Tisbury has a small circuit with some resistors and stuff.
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I received a short message last week from the designer of the HK passive
saying this unit sounds the best on tape out.
And it truly does. If you can control the volume with your Ipad or cell phone,
use it this way. It sure makes ny echo dot and Amazon music sound better.
Not as good as Tidal or Qobuz, but not too shabby.
And I am just using a cheap $5 cable on this Echo Dot.
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I'm wondering how the Nobsound or the SMD DACT would sound with the iTube2 buffer. I think, based on my memory of when the iTube2 came to me on the tour, that it would be really nice. Anyone?
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While I love my $56 Nobsound preamp, I will give this other option a try and will report back on how it sounds when it comes in.
I wanted the option on of a 2nd XLR output and wanted to try the better pot. Also, the dual mono configuration should also improve
transparency.
We will see.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Passive-Pre-Amplifiers-RCA-and-XLR-Balance-input-and-output/191443244291?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3Dacf9d4248da44cccaea92521845340e8%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D192229314729%26itm%3D191443244291&_trksid=p2045573.c100667.m2042
Well i hooked it up last night and the xlrs output did not work.
The left volume control was not working and the sound was
Always on. I used the single ended outputs and things work just fine. Still want the xlrs to work, but from a sound perspective it was much better than the nobsound.
Space around the instruments, detail, attack. More musical. A bargain for sure.
I’ll work with the guy and see if I can get the problem corrected.
Huge improvement in my system. A little spooky actually, didn’t expect this much improvement.
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A lot of good information was in this thread.
At the end of the day what is the best pot available
with a focus of sound regardless of the cost?
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Well i hooked it up last night and the xlrs output did not work.
The left volume control was not working and the sound was
Always on. I used the single ended outputs and things work just fine. Still want the xlrs to work, but from a sound perspective it was much better than the nobsound.
Space around the instruments, detail, attack. More musical. A bargain for sure.
I’ll work with the guy and see if I can get the problem corrected.
Huge improvement in my system. A little spooky actually, didn’t expect this much improvement.
I wonder if there’s some type of jumper to be moved inside to allow the xlr’s to be used. Nice to hear the single ended portion is sounding great. How are the volume knobs as you turn them? Smooth or is there a click or hitch as you move them up and down?
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A lot of good information was in this thread.
At the end of the day what is the best pot available
with a focus of sound regardless of the cost?
No pot is the best. That is why the HK passive sounds it's best on tape out. But so far, the Chinese Dact pot sounds the best I have tried. I would get more expensive, but the Dact pot sounds good enough for my ears.
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I wonder if there’s some type of jumper to be moved inside to allow the xlr’s to be used. Nice to hear the single ended portion is sounding great. How are the volume knobs as you turn them? Smooth or is there a click or hitch as you move them up and down?
Let’s see what Chris who sells these passives has to say... I’ll
Let you know.
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I wonder if there’s some type of jumper to be moved inside to allow the xlr’s to be used. Nice to hear the single ended portion is sounding great. How are the volume knobs as you turn them? Smooth or is there a click or hitch as you move them up and down?
It’s feels fine. Good enough. The steps are deliberate but they don’t click and stop on a button.
I find my normal listening level and move each one up or down
A couple notches and I’m set.
It sounds really good for $200. I had gone with passives
For years and got into integrated preamps and then a $2000
Custom made tube preamp with an outboard power supply.
After listening to this I’m so glad I converted back to passive.
I think I got influenced by those that said passives didn’t have any bass.
This sounds glorious and has beautiful punchy bass.
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Awesome, thanks for the feedback!
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FWIW my $99 HK passive has four inputs, two outputs and one record out.
Best of all is what it does with my Dennis Had amp.
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Well, after lurking on this thread for who knows how long, I finally ordered an SMD DACT on eBay. I want to try it with my dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC and one of my amps. I'll eventually get round to posting my impressions.
Thanks to all for their thoughts and impressions.
Michael
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It’s feels fine. Good enough. The steps are deliberate but they don’t click and stop on a button.
I find my normal listening level and move each one up or down
A couple notches and I’m set.
It sounds really good for $200. I had gone with passives
For years and got into integrated preamps and then a $2000
Custom made tube preamp with an outboard power supply.
After listening to this I’m so glad I converted back to passive.
I think I got influenced by those that said passives didn’t have any bass.
This sounds glorious and has beautiful punchy bass.
Thanks for the input. Price is now $250, but still a bargain over preamps.
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.
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Looks like a cheaper simpler Chinese-DACT preamp is now available. I don't know why it took them so many years to do this. No-brainer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-21-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier-preamp-amp-HIFI-audio/123759141302?hash=item1cd09ea1b6:m:mlzYW3SUt5FnBGfXlsyO-ww (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-21-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier-preamp-amp-HIFI-audio/123759141302?hash=item1cd09ea1b6:m:mlzYW3SUt5FnBGfXlsyO-ww)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197949)
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Looks just like mine. :D
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For a passive preamp I use the Schiit Sys. For $50 and made in the USA.
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For that price try two. Use as dual mono. I do for a second system with Dennis Hadd Amp. Sounds better to me.
charles
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For a passive preamp I use the Schiit Sys. For $50 and made in the USA.
Unfortunately the Sys uses a cheap alps pot. The DACT-type pots are *much* better, that's why they are popular.
If Schiit made the Sys with the Alps Blue Velvet, which IMO is what they should have done, then it would be a better alternative.
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Unfortunately the Sys uses a cheap alps pot. The DACT-type pots are *much* better, that's why they are popular.
If Schiit made the Sys with the Alps Blue Velvet, which IMO is what they should have done, then it would be a better alternative.
A reviewer on a site Superaudiobestfriends.org https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/passive-schiit-shootout-saga-vs-freya-vs-sys.7611/ found that the $50 Schiit Sys sounded much more transparent and dynamic than either of the more expensive Schiit preamps, the Saga or the Freya, which themselves come highly rated. If it's true, even with its cheap alps pot, I would think that using one Sys for each channel would be pretty tough to beat for $100 or maybe for even 10 times as much, as long as you don't mind getting up from the chair to adjust the volume.
Although I would love to hear and compare all of these I will likely spend a little more to get a Luminous Audio Axiom II with the Walker mod, which replaces a Alps blue pot with a hi-end 23 step silver-plated switched network volume control using 1% metal film resistors. AND you can get it with a remote for under a grand. They claim that this passive can go toe to toe with any preamp regardless of price, and several reviewers have agreed. Not necessarily Cheap and Cheerful but - based on what I've read - probably one of the best passive preamp deals to be had.
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A reviewer on a site Superaudiobestfriends.org https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/passive-schiit-shootout-saga-vs-freya-vs-sys.7611/ found that the $50 Schiit Sys sounded much more transparent and dynamic than either of the more expensive Schiit preamps, the Saga or the Freya, which themselves come highly rated. If it's true, even with its cheap alps pot, I would think that using one Sys for each channel would be pretty tough to beat for $100 or maybe for even 10 times as much, as long as you don't mind getting up from the chair to adjust the volume.
Although I would love to hear and compare all of these I will likely spend a little more to get a Luminous Audio Axiom II with the Walker mod, which replaces a Alps blue pot with a hi-end 23 step silver-plated switched network volume control using 1% metal film resistors. AND you can get it with a remote for under a grand. They claim that this passive can go toe to toe with any preamp regardless of price, and several reviewers have agreed. Not necessarily Cheap and Cheerful but - based on what I've read - probably one of the best passive preamp deals to be had.
I've got a Saga and a Sys. As much as I "wanted" the Saga to sound better than the Sys in my system, it didn't. The Sys is just really transparent. I've since bought another one so I'm now running two Sys'. It really was an improvement over one.
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Looks like a cheaper simpler Chinese-DACT preamp is now available. I don't know why it took them so many years to do this. No-brainer.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-21-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier-preamp-amp-HIFI-audio/123759141302?hash=item1cd09ea1b6:m:mlzYW3SUt5FnBGfXlsyO-ww (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMD-Dact-type-21-Stepped-attenuator-Passive-Preamplifier-preamp-amp-HIFI-audio/123759141302?hash=item1cd09ea1b6:m:mlzYW3SUt5FnBGfXlsyO-ww)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197949)
Two of those in mono would be a killer deal. And free shipping.
Rollo said it would be better as monos.
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A reviewer on a site Superaudiobestfriends.org https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/passive-schiit-shootout-saga-vs-freya-vs-sys.7611/ found that the $50 Schiit Sys sounded much more transparent and dynamic than either of the more expensive Schiit preamps, the Saga or the Freya, which themselves come highly rated. If it's true, even with its cheap alps pot, I would think that using one Sys for each channel would be pretty tough to beat for $100 or maybe for even 10 times as much, as long as you don't mind getting up from the chair to adjust the volume.
I think there continues to be some misunderstanding about preamps - it may help to read the whole thread: the Sys sounds better because there is *nothing* but the pot and inputs/outputs. That's it. THAT is why some people will prefer it. Hence you will want to use better pots AND pay attention to the value because it affects impedance. The DACT-type pre I linked to before and others have mentioned is the exact same concept as the Sys, just better quality pots. You can just easily make your own Sys with that cheap alps pot, a small plastic enclosure, and 4 RCAs.
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Hello all,
After reading a few comments and other information about passive preamps, I am still at a loss. There is no gain, as with an active pre ... I get that. But what happens when a passive is connected to a low output component - like a phono preamp? For example, when I switch from DAC or Oppo disc player to turntable/phono pre, I need to adjust volume higher (on active pre) by about 20% in order to maintain same dB level. Wouldn't this situation be made worse without any front-end gain?
Thanks in advance for your response.
Lewis
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Hello all,
After reading a few comments and other information about passive preamps, I am still at a loss. There is no gain, as with an active pre ... I get that. But what happens when a passive is connected to a low output component - like a phono preamp? For example, when I switch from DAC or Oppo disc player to turntable/phono pre, I need to adjust volume higher (on active pre) by about 20% in order to maintain same dB level. Wouldn't this situation be made worse without any front-end gain?
Thanks in advance for your response.
Lewis
A passive preamp doesn't work for every setup. If you have a phono pre with low output then a passive may not be an option. Furthermore a passive is not necessarily better than active - it's all system/taste dependent. You just have to experiment and decide for yourself. But I'll repeat for the nth time that it's important to know the output impedance of the source and the impedance of the volume pot. Once you get a handle on those numbers, you can figure out what values give you the sonics you prefer - as opposed to just plopping in a random passive. A passive with a 50k pot is not going to sound the same as a passive with a 20k pot.
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To answer the original question, based on one day's audition, there isn't. So far i can't hear a difference between it and my homebrew passive comprising an expensive TKD potentiometer, coupled with a Mapletree Audio balanced line router. There is no channel imbalance at any volume level. The build quality is excellent.
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I see Impedance: 50KΩ on Amazon ... i guess it is the input impedance ? is not too high ? i remember an old classic the Placette having a 9kohm of input impedance.
Another interesting piece is this one ... more than double the price anyway (the resistors used do not look very high end but could the concept be valid ?)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-Potentiometer-Preamplifier-Attenuator-Preamplifiers/dp/B076D55XSK
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71T7J5FuReL._SL1200_.jpg)
from the specs down in the page i see
Balanced input; Balanced output
Balanced input; Unbalanced output
Unbalanced input; Unbalanced output
Input impedance 2K+; Output near 300Ω
i would not underestimate the impedance matching issue ... i did some test between a solid state preamp and a SS power amp ... the higher the Zinput of the pot the flatter the sound
imho i see 10K as a maximun ... if the source is robust i could go even lower to 5k or 2.5k ...
I am very interested in this thread and i thank the Opener ... i am always struggling with line preamps of which i like overall the sound but the gain is not selectable and usually too high. The option of selectable gain in line preamp should be made mandatory by law ... :thumb:
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One major problem I have with the Schiit preamps ( and all Schiit gear ) is their board mounted RCA's unlike the DACT which use chassis mounted RCA's. Tight cables can yank those Schiit RCA's right off the board. Ask me how I know. :(
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One major problem I have with the Schiit preamps ( and all Schiit gear ) is their board mounted RCA's unlike the DACT which use chassis mounted RCA's. Tight cables can yank those Schiit RCA's right off the board. Ask me how I know. :(
if you are really convinced about their quality i would think at re-casing them in a nice new enclosure with new panel RCAs
I have the Magni 2 that i love and i am thinking about a new cabinet for it. The boards from Schiit are pieces of electronic art to my eyes ... very very nice. They would deserve a transparent cover.
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I see Impedance: 50KΩ on Amazon ... i guess it is the input impedance ? is not too high ? i remember an old classic the Placette having a 9kohm of input impedance.
Another interesting piece is this one ... more than double the price anyway (the resistors used do not look very high end but could the concept be valid ?)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-Potentiometer-Preamplifier-Attenuator-Preamplifiers/dp/B076D55XSK
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71T7J5FuReL._SL1200_.jpg)
from the specs down in the page i see
i would not underestimate the impedance matching issue ... i did some test between a solid state preamp and a SS power amp ... the higher the Zinput of the pot the flatter the sound
imho i see 10K as a maximun ... if the source is robust i could go even lower to 5k or 2.5k ...
I am very interested in this thread and i thank the Opener ... i am always struggling with line preamps of which i like overall the sound but the gain is not selectable and usually too high. The option of selectable gain in line preamp should be made mandatory by law ... :thumb:
I bought one of those from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997802910.html
I am using it in a biamp setup to attenuate the ICEpower amp driving the woofer module on my Von Schweikert VR-4 Gen III HSE to balance with the 300b PSET amps driving the M/T module.
I am very happy with the unit.
Martin
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I bought one of those from here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32997802910.html
I am using it in a biamp setup to attenuate the ICEpower amp driving the woofer module on my Von Schweikert VR-4 Gen III HSE to balance with the 300b PSET amps driving the M/T module.
I am very happy with the unit.
Martin
Very interesting. Could you confirm on the input impedance of the unit being 2 kohm as per specs ? Thanks a lot, gino
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Very interesting. Could you confirm on the input impedance of the unit being 2 kohm as per specs ? Thanks a lot, gino
I have no way to confirm the input impedance.
Martin
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https://www.amazon.com/JZK-Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ammeter/dp/B01B41KMEW/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2MIPIKEUJAF37&keywords=multimeter&qid=1573629987&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&sprefix=multim%2Caps%2C247&sr=8-5
Zin should be the hot to ground input resistance with the unit on and the power amp off.
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To bring this one back to life: Did anyone try the Nobsound with multiple inputs?
If it sounds equally good that would work perfect for a future project. I would fit the whole box into the enclosure with cheap lm1875-boards and a fairly nice but not yet conceived PSU to build an inexpensive "integrated" amp for my dad.
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Did anyone try the Nobsound with multiple inputs?
Which one are you referring to? The $57 unit has two inputs...
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Which one are you referring to? The $57 unit has two inputs...
https://www.doukaudio.com/mini-stereo-4-in-1-out-rca-signal-input-audio-splitter-switcher-volume-controler-p0081.html
I wonder if it uses the same pot and if the multiple outputs introduces any noise. :)
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I haven’t seen that one until now, but I’m sure it will suffice.
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Which one are you referring to? The $57 unit has two inputs...
Last year, I ordered the what I thought was a 2 output/XLR-RCA one but they sent me a 4 RCA output one. They've had many versions of this thing.
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Last year, I ordered the what I thought was a 2 output/XLR-RCA one but they sent me a 4 RCA output one. They've had many versions of this thing.
:P It is kinda confusing with all those interchangeable models and mutations....
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:P It is kinda confusing with all those interchangeable models and mutations....
Apparently, it became so popular with so many audiophiles wanted differing layouts that they (and other companies) gave them what they want. I imagine you could get any layout or combination that you could ever think of! :o
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.Xnobsound+preamp.TRS0&_nkw=nobsound+preamp&_sacat=0
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Ok and now my head is spinning.... :? I guess I'll close my eyes and point...
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Ok and now my head is spinning.... :? I guess I'll close my eyes and point...
:lol: And that's not even all the choices.
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Hehe I'll just go with the one I linked to. Should do the job! And if it doesn't do what I want, I'll just get a few potentiometers to try out, I guess.
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Unfortunately the Sys uses a cheap alps pot. The DACT-type pots are *much* better, that's why they are popular.
If Schiit made the Sys with the Alps Blue Velvet, which IMO is what they should have done, then it would be a better alternative.
+1
I have had three with the alps pot and the Dact-type sounds much better.
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I’m ready to give one of these Dact-type pots a try as a passive volume control between my dac and amplifier. However, I still can’t wrap my head around the correct pot to order (10K, 20K, or 50K).
If I understand it correctly, the higher value potentiometers can introduce more noise into the system. Would this mean the 10K has the best potential of working with my system? My Dac has an output impedance of 1k ohm, and the amplifier has an input impedance of 47k ohms.
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Welll.... It showed up after a few months after even forgetting about ordering it... And the pot is incredibly noisy. Not very nice att all. On for the scrap pile. Maybe I'll order one of those chinese dacts and put in. It is a nice and functional little box, after all.
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I wonder how that Creek passive sounds?
My second-hand Creek OBH-22 sounds fine although it's (a bit) on the expensive side.
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One update to share that I really didn't mention for some odd reason.
The $56 or $59 passive has a ridiculously deep and wide sound stage. I compared it against high end preamps and it smoked them on the sound stage. Maybe not quite in the tone area, but amazing for the price. I haven't stacked them (buy two one for each channel) but it has to improve. That's a $120 dual mono experiment that is sure to pay off dividends.
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Well, after lurking on this thread for who knows how long, I finally ordered an SMD DACT on eBay. I want to try it with my dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC and one of my amps. I'll eventually get round to posting my impressions.
Thanks to all for their thoughts and impressions.
Michael
[A quick thank you to sumoking for posting a reply to this thread. It reminded me that I never posted my impressions of the SMD Dact that I purchased.]
I tried the SMD DACT passive pre with two different amps - an IceEdge 1200as2, and my KT88. The volume control was scratchy, and the soundstage was flat. I never used it after that. It was 'garbage' in my system. I may still try the Nobsound or Schiit someday, but it's not a high priority right now.