AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: jsalk on 17 Sep 2006, 05:24 pm
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A question came up as to what we were going to be featuring at the upcoming Rocky Mountain Audiofest. Since the question came up in another thread, I thought it would be a good idea to start a separate thread on this topic.
We are currently in the process of building a couple of special pair of speakers for the RMAF. Among them is a special pair of Veracity HT3's.
I lived in Denver for a few months many years ago, and one thing I noticed about the area is a definite latino influence. So when thinking about it, I wanted this pair of HT3's to reflect that influence.
I found a spectacular exhibition-grade piece of Mexican cocobolo lumber that will serve as the focal point of this new pair of HT3's.
Here is a picture of the board:
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/rmaf06/cocobolo.jpg)
After finishing a pair of HT3's for Kirk (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=30343.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=30343.0)) which featured a full-length solid wood front baffle, I thought this would be perfect for the same treatment.
That problem was, the board was not quite wide enough since I wanted to lose the sapwood on the edges. Fortunately, the board was quite thick, so I was able to have it re-sawn into enough pieces to enable me to splice the pieces into two book-matched front baffles.
As we progress with this project, I will add additional details to this thread. So stay tuned...
- Jim
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I'm looking forward to seeing these Rocky Mountain Specials.
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Jim,
Will these be HT3's or HT3a's? By the way, looking forward to seeing you there.
Randy
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Randy -
Jim,
Will these be HT3's or HT3a's? By the way, looking forward to seeing you there.
Randy
They will be both. I am going to build outbaord crossover enclosures so I can use them either way.
Glad to hear you will be at RMAF. Perhaps we can have dinner again.
- Jim
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Sounds good to me!
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Jim....Nice piece of wood there. Not only do your speaker's always look good...having heard them....they sound great as well. :thumb:
That problem was, the board was not quite wide enough since I wanted to lose the sapwood on the edges. Fortunately, the board was quite thick, so I was able to have it re-sawn into enough pieces to enable me to splice the pieces into two book-matched front baffles.
I have one of those FYI questions....What size board is perfect for building an HT3 speaker....dimension wise ? I'm curious....thanks.
Chris
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Chris -
I have one of those FYI questions....What size board is perfect for building an HT3 speaker....dimension wise ? I'm curious....thanks.
Chris
Well, the ideal board would be just over 12" wide by 40" long and between 5/8" to 3/4" thick. This is very hard to come by with most woods. So I often look for much thicker boards that can be re-sawn and spliced. Sometimes that restults in some very nice looking book-matched splices.
- Jim
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Thank you Jim.... :thumb:
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Jim,
I'm sure you get plenty of wood out there, but if you're interested while you're in town (probably don't have time), there's a place down the road from me that basically does urban tree removal and has their own sawmill.
The part of interest for something like your speakers is that the boards are all kept together in flitches for bookmatched furniture. Of course, it's all domestic and not exotic, but there are some decent pieces. It's run by the seat of his pants and any discounts/generous math are likely related to whether he likes you, and I expect to see it catch fire someday, but in the mean time it's an interesting place to pick up some wood. :)
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Just a quick update...
After considering quite a few options for the rest of the cabinet, I decided to go with high-gloss, hand-rubbed piano black laquer for the rest of the cabinet. It should really set the cocobolo off.
It also looks like this pair will be a new model - the "HT3-N". If so, it will use the Seas Excel W18 Nextel driver rather than the W18EX magnesium-coned driver. Dennis Murphy just forwarded the preliminary crossover design and I thought it would be a good idea to introduce this HT3 model at RMAF.
More later...
- Jim
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Jim.
What is the motivation for the driver change and how will it effect the sound of the HT3?
Thanks Larry
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Larry -
Jim.
What is the motivation for the driver change and how will it effect the sound of the HT3?
Thanks Larry
This is NOT a driver change. We will still be primarily producing HT3's with the W18EX we have used from the start. We are very pleased with its performance.
But we are always evaluating promising new drivers and designs. Sometimes they work out. Sometimes they don't.
While we feel the magnesium-coned W18 is one of the finest drivers of its type on the world, some people simply do not like metal-coned drivers. While we don't hold that view (obviously), we wanted to accommodate those who do. So when Seas introduced the W18 Nextel (paper cone with Nextel coating), we thought we'd take a look.
Dennis found it to be very smooth and was able to integrate it very well with the G2 and the TC woofer.
Here is a preliminary frequency response graph for this design (ignore anything below about 200Hz as it is mostly floor bounce):
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/HT3-N/fr.gif)
The FR is so flat and smooth, we thought it might be nice to offer it as an alternative for those so inclined. And since we were building a pair for the Rocky Mountain Audiofest, we thought it would be nice to introduce it there.
As for how the sound might differ from the orignal HT3, it is a little too early to tell. We do not yet have a pair to A/B with the original design. Stay tuned...
- Jim
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Jim, is there any chance that you could overlay the FR plot of the Excel driver version on top of that from the Nextel version?
Thanks!
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As for how the sound might differ from the orignal HT3, it is a little too early to tell. We do not yet have a pair to A/B with the original design. Stay tuned...
Will you have one of each at the RMAF?
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I finally got around to setting up a serious listening environment in my new rec room, and spent the night checking out the prototype of the nextel HT3. Unfortunately, I only have one HT3, so I can't A-B it with the Magnesium. And I had to trash that crossover anyhow to find suitable parts for the new board. I did A-B it with my own CA0W1, which is a small 2-way using the 0W1 tweeter and a Seas midwoof. That was just to check for midrange and treble balance. Of course, there's no comparison in the bass department. Otherwise, the balance was similar, but the HT3 had a little more relaxed presentation with more open highs at the very top, thanks to the ribbon. Is the Nextel more relaxed than the Magnesium? I really don't know. I wish I could get a bunch of people who think metal = zingy or harsh into my rec room and let them hear the W18 magnesium playing alone with the HT3 mid crossover components in place. I think they would be amazed at howl dull and relaxed it sounds. The mid only handles 3 octaves, and the metal break-up mode is quashed by a trap circuit, and then depressed way down by the series inductor. If you bring in the tweeter above that, I just don't see how any remnants of the breakup would be audible. But as I told Jim, sometimes it's best not to argue and just provide a viable alternative, which I think we have done. Besides, the Nextel is a great driver with super smooth response.
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Dennis
Good info: Thanks.
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Will you have one of each at the RMAF?
For the first day and a half I will. I am currently finishing up a pair for a gentleman who lives in Littleton, CO. Since he is currently working in Utah and only home on some week-ends, we decided that I would bring them to RMAF and he would pick them up on Saturday afternoon. So I will have both his pair and the HT3-N's Friday and half of Saturday.
- Jim
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Although not super important, the Nextel midrange will aesthetically match the other speakers nicely. Do you think the HT3-N will be more forgiving?
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Although not super important, the Nextel midrange will aesthetically match the other speakers nicely. Do you think the HT3-N will be more forgiving?
I would hate to speculate at this point. Since it is a paper-coned driver (with Nextel coating), there is a chance it may be. But until we get a pair of speakers built, I would only be guessing. Stay tuned...
- Jim
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I thought I might mention that we are building two additional pairs of speakers for RMAF.
The first will be a pair of HT2's.
I happen to own a Tom Anderson guitar (one fabulous instrument!) that was done in a traditional sunburst color pattern over quilted maple. Tom builds a small number of guitars each year. Each is a work of art as well as a wonderful musical instrument. If you want an electric guitar, you simply can't do better.
I recently purchased a batch of Western Big Leaf quilted maple for another project and decided to try the sunburst technique on a pair of HT2's. It is turning out to be an interesting project and my hope is that the finish will be of the quality of my Tom Anderson. Since this will be my first attempt at this type of finish, the risk is rather high. But so far at least, I feel I can pull it off.
The other pair of speakers will be HT1's. I had some very nice fiddleback plum pudding mahogany wood lying around just looking for a project. Then, cleaning out my veneer storage, I came across some really nice crotch mahogany. So I thought I'd combine the two. It should be a very nice combination.
I'll keep you posted on our progress...
- Jim
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Sounds like a good setup. Maybe I'll try and hear one of the smaller speakers this time since I heard the HT3 last time.
It must be nice to have a shop where you can stumble across nice crotch mahogany while cleaning up. :)
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I thought I might mention that we are building two additional pairs of speakers for RMAF.
The first will be a pair of HT2's.
I happen to own a Tom Anderson guitar (one fabulous instrument!) that was done in a traditional sunburst color pattern over quilted maple. Tom builds a small number of guitars each year. Each is a work of art as well as a wonderful musical instrument. If you want an electric guitar, you simply can't do better.
I recently purchased a batch of Western Big Leaf quilted maple for another project and decided to try the sunburst technique on a pair of HT2's. It is turning out to be an interesting project and my hope is that the finish will be of the quality of my Tom Anderson. Since this will be my first attempt at this type of finish, the risk is rather high. But so far at least, I feel I can pull it off.
The other pair of speakers will be HT1's. I had some very nice fiddleback plum pudding mahogany wood lying around just looking for a project. Then, cleaning out my veneer storage, I came across some really nice crotch mahogany. So I thought I'd combine the two. It should be a very nice combination.
I'll keep you posted on our progress...
- Jim
Jim,
Would it look something like this:
(http://pic6.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1147546820.jpg)
George
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To drive all of Jim's speakers at the RMAF (we are sharing a display room) AVA will be bringing: Ultra 550 amplifier, Ultra 350 amplifier, Transcendence Eight, Ultra SL, and Ultra EC preamps (all with remote control), an Ultra DAC, and a couple of Ultimate 70 tube amplifiers (one in a Dyna chassis, one in our near ready to produce AVA chassis).
We will also introduce a new OmegaStar Control amplifier, done in the big SL chassis, with an active preamp section. First listening tests say it is dead quiet, got gobs of balls and dynamics, with a very likeable clear grain free sound, actually came out better than we were hoping for. Sounds great driving my HT3s. Six sets of inputs, tape outs, headphone outputs, plus preamp out and power amp in jacks, and lots more. Remote option possible, have not tried for a phono card in it yet, whether that will be possible is dependent upon how quiet it can work out, won't know for sure until we try it.
I am also hoping Jim can bring his set of AVA Ultra electronics as backups.
Most of the equipment we bring will be available for sale at the show so here is your chance to avoid our normal 4-6 week lead times.
Hope to see lots of friends there.
Frank Van Alstine
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Is there a distinction between a "control amplifier" and a "pre-amplifier," or are these meant to be synonyms?
Thanks!
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George, while the colors are the same, if Jim can do what was done to his guitar, than it will be WAY, WAY beyond what was done to those speakers you posted.
I got a chance to see the guitar this past Sunday, as well as some speakers he had finished.
I am sure they will look fantastic.
George
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Jim,
Would it look something like this:
George
That is the idea. But a classic guitar sunburst pattern starts with amber in the center, then fades to a rich red and finally to black or brown. It is now 9PM and I just got home from the shop. I was working on the dye job for these speakers. It was more difficult than I imagined, but I think I am very close to nailing it. I will check it again in the morning to see how I did.
- Jim
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HT2 Update...
Well, this morning I checked out the sunburst finish on the HT2's I was working on yesterday. Sometimes the best of ideas just don't work out very well. The dye job was good. But the speakers looked liked they belonged in a hippie commune back in the '70's (that was an actual comment by someone who saw them).
Even though the technique worked well, it just wasn't a speaker I felt like showing. So back in the veneer press they went for a complete re-do. This time I will try a more elegant finish.
- Jim
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Hey Jim,
It is better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all.
I somehow feel comforted that not every attempt by the experts turns out well, although you would never know it by the beautiful work shown here in the Salk circle. I am currently building Dave Ellis 1801s and frequent this site for inspiration.
Keep up the great work!
Tom
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Hey Jim,
It is better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all.
I somehow feel comforted that not every attempt by the experts turns out well, although you would never know it by the beautiful work shown here in the Salk circle. I am currently building Dave Ellis 1801s and frequent this site for inspiration.
Keep up the great work!
Tom
Tom -
The more missteps we take, the better we get. That is how you learn. We constantly try to push the envelope, so to speak. In the past two months I have tried two approaches I considered novel and both did not quite live up to expectations. But every once and a while something works out and all the extra work is well worth it. So don't be afraid to try and break new ground.
I have built quite a few pairs of Ellis 1801's over the years. In fact, I am just finishing up five of them and a subwoofer for a recording studio 5.1 channel setup. You will enjoy the fruits of your labor.
- Jim
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Over in this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32632.0 a gallery with this pic iis posted http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=852&pos=53 of the Salk/ AVA setup :drool:
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This was definitely a beautiful and striking pair of speakers. The cocobolo combined with piano gloss black and black drivers was a terrific combination. If you're looking into Salks and have the cash to spend, the full length baffle and gloss black body is a great combination (depending on the wood).
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I like the guitar looking HT2's...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7716)
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This was definitely a beautiful and striking pair of speakers. The cocobolo combined with piano gloss black and black drivers was a terrific combination. If you're looking into Salks and have the cash to spend, the full length baffle and gloss black body is a great combination (depending on the wood).
Agreed. I'm considering changing to black sides instead of waterfall bubinga but my wife thinks I'm crazy to not show off the wood finish.
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Hey Red, did you hear the Salk HT2s driven by our Ultra 70 tube amp at the RMAF? Think about how a pair of them bridged (100+ watts per channel) would sound on your HT3s. Cost you about $3000 for the amps and $900 for the Ultra bridge. Its a pretty awesome combination here at my shop on these speakers.
Frank Van Alstine