[wushuliu]

budget yes, compete with a digital front end of equal value....... probably not, oh and you forgot the needed cleaning items, 1-200 buckaroos !

There's no basis for comparing a vinyl setup vs digital of equal value. They are completely different mediums, with too many variables to consider as has been said already. If anything they are complimentary.

And what cleaning supplies have to cost $200. It doesn't cost $100-200+ to clean records unless you *want* to spend that much to clean records. Part of the pitfall of the turntable market since the 90s is the idea that it's an ecosystem that requires all these specialized accessories that *have* to be purchased in order to listen to records. Accessories that no one cared about when turntables were ubiquitous.

[twitch54]

There's no basis for comparing a vinyl setup vs digital of equal value. They are completely different mediums, with too many variables to consider as has been said already. If anything they are complimentary.

agreed and that has been my point all along, perhaps I wasn't clear enough .........

And what cleaning supplies have to cost $200. It doesn't cost $100-200+ to clean records unless you *want* to spend that much to clean records. Part of the pitfall of the turntable market since the 90s is the idea that it's an ecosystem that requires all these specialized accessories that *have* to be purchased in order to listen to records. Accessories that no one cared about when turntables were ubiquitous.

one does not 'have to' spend that much but IMO when you look at a min RCM, 'spin clean' for example plus brushes and solutions you're over a hundred bucks. But to think that cleanliness and record playing don't go hand in hand is ridiculous !

[mix4fix]

My digital front end
Marantz SA-10

On a side note, that's an expensive CD player I want for a few hundred bucks. Or, at least the prior silver one from Marantz Reference

[S Clark]

And you can clean as well as a Spin Clean with a $1 Harbor Freight trimmed boar brush, dish soap water, a healthy de ionized water rinse, and dry with some microfiber towels. Not as good as a vacuum, and not nearly as good as a vacuum and an ultrasonic... but acceptable and cheap.   

[mix4fix]

And you can clean as well as a Spin Clean with a $1 Harbor Freight trimmed boar brush, dish soap water, a healthy de ionized water rinse, and dry with some microfiber towels. Not as good as a vacuum, and not nearly as good as a vacuum and an ultrasonic... but acceptable and cheap.

Record cleaning equipment and supplies is a necessity but not be included in turntable pricing. You need to detail your car but you don't anguish over a buffer when I decide between a car (pretty much needed) or motorcycle (pretty much not needed).

[S Clark]

Record cleaning equipment and supplies is a necessity but not be included in turntable pricing. You need to detail your car but you don't anguish over a buffer when I decide between a car (pretty much needed) or motorcycle (pretty much not needed).

Good point. The whole reason for my input on this tread is to say that a very nice vinyl rig can be had for well under $1000, perhaps as low as $600.

[wushuliu]

Something to remember: new audiophile turntables ('affordable', not cost-no-object) don't necessarily reflect an improvement over older tables, other than warranty coverage. Belt drives are ubiquitous now not because they are definitively better, but because they are the only cost effective option. Direct drive, idler drives, etc. are too expensive to make nowadays and the people who knew how to make them or either dead or pretty darn old. Same with suspended drives. To implement that now would drive costs up. This is why IMO the part to brag about now is the tonearm. Because all most manufacturers can afford to do otherwise is do variation on plinth material and make platters bigger.

Also: U-turn Orbit is direct order, no middleman. So their tables may cost say $260 or $460, but in retail terms that's easily $500-900 with markups.

Personally for mid-fi I'd rather buy an old Pioneer PL-51X and have someone service it. Even better, buy an old Acoustic Research AR XB and have Marc Morin mod it. Both options should come in under $600 and punch way above their weight.

[dB Cooper]

Part of the pitfall of the turntable market since the 90s is the idea that it's an ecosystem that requires all these specialized accessories that *have* to be purchased in order to listen to records. Accessories that no one cared about when turntables were ubiquitous.

Actually, I think that is true for the audio world, and many accessories/tweaks etc., in general.

[rollo]

Has anyone here directly compared an LP to a CD in their system ?  Result ?

charles

[OzarkTom]

Has anyone here directly compared an LP to a CD in their system ?  Result ?

charles

Back in the 80's I did with many of my audio customers. Everyone was shocked when I told them they preferred the CD. I was in a company's room at CES show with several TAS reviewers. Again, they were shocked when they preferred the CD.