Crossover’s for Bi-amping

WireNut · « **on:** 6 Mar 2013, 01:38 pm »

What electronic crossover are you using to bi-amp your home audio system and what are your opinions of using Pro crossover's for home audio reproduction. All my associated equipment will be using balanced XLR connections.

Russtafarian · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Mar 2013, 06:10 pm »

I use an old Outlaw ICBM since it blends C, SL, SR, and LFE into the sub signal. The mono RCA output of the ICBM goes to an analog pro parametric EQ and then to an amp.

The RCA to XLR cable is wired RCA center pin to XLR pin 2 and RCA collar to XLR pin 3. XLR pin 1 is either connected to XLR pin 3 or floated, whichever results in less hum.

For just stereo you can look at inexpensive 2 way and 3 way analog crossovers from Behringer, DBX, etc. Fullcompass.com or Sweetwater.com will have them.

Russ

WireNut · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Mar 2013, 06:27 pm »

I did pick up a Rane AC22S xover but I can't use it until may wires come in on Friday so I can make balanced XLR cables for it. It will be interesting to find out if it sounds better then my Audio Research EC22 xover that I'm using which uses all unbalanced RCA cables. The Rane is more flexible then the audio research xover which cost almost 10 times more when it was new 15-20 years ago.

underdawg · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Mar 2013, 06:27 pm »

I have used the Behringers with success, they even have a vaccum tube crossover.

edwyun · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 04:20 am »

I use a First Watt B4.

I prefer using discrete electronics and no op-amps for XOs to minimize any sonic signature. The dbx's and behringers are good and getting better but many make DIY improvements due to their sonic signature.

WireNut · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 04:57 am »

Quote from: edwyun on 7 Mar 2013, 04:20 am

I use a First Watt B4.
I prefer using discrete electronics and no op-amps for XOs to minimize any sonic signature. The dbx's and behringers are good and getting better but many make DIY improvements due to their sonic signature.

I hear ya about the discrete electronics. That's my concern with the Rane Xover. I'll no how it sounds in a couple days and report back.

edwyun · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:06 am »

Some other companies that make discrete XO's with modules to change the crossover points and slopes are Marchand and Bryston. I've heard good things about both.

But the B4 is perhaps the easiest to adjust crossover points and slopes with DIP switches. Another is the Pass Labs XVR1 which is essentially the same as the B4 but with adjustable Q and XLRs. Very pricey though.

edwyun · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:10 am »

The First Watt stuff isn't too costly relatively speaking. The Pass Labs stuff is of course but prolly worth it. Only thing with First Watt is that they are sometimes hard to find due to limited production runs.

edwyun · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:11 am »

You may be surprised by the Rane and other pro units. They've gotten better recently.

WireNut · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:23 am »

Quote from: edwyun on 7 Mar 2013, 05:11 am

You may be surprised by the Rane and other pro units. They've gotten better recently.

I scenery hope so.
I'm just waiting for my Neotech solid core wires to come in on Friday so I can make the balance interconnects I need to hook everything up. The plan is to make balanced interconnects using a 3 wire braid with the Neotech solid core wires and using XLR connectors. Hopefully the 3 wire braid is a good choice and won't be a problem without a full braided sheild. The cables will only be 3 feet long maximum.

WireNut · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:31 am »

Since I'm going to be comparing the Rane AC22S pro xover to an Audio Research EC22 Xover from the past, I think this will be good info for me and other people that are using crossover's in there home audio system.

WireNut · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:45 am »

Quote from: edwyun on 7 Mar 2013, 04:20 am

I use a First Watt B4.

I prefer using discrete electronics and no op-amps for XOs to minimize any sonic signature. The dbx's and behringers are good and getting better but many make DIY improvements due to their sonic signature.

edwyun,

Curious, what's the approx price for a First Watt B4 new or used?

edwyun · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:48 am »

Quote from: WireNut on 7 Mar 2013, 05:31 am

I think this will be good info for me and other people that are using crossover's in there home audio system.

Definitely. There's a great deal to learn with active XO's and bi-amping and I'm still learning and testing things out. It sure leads to a lot of listening and is a lot of fun.

edwyun · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:49 am »

Quote from: WireNut on 7 Mar 2013, 05:45 am

Curious, what's the approx price for a First Watt B4 new or used?

I think MSRP was $1500 new. I don't know what they would be used as they came out in the middle of last year.

WireNut · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 05:58 am »

Quote from: edwyun on 7 Mar 2013, 05:49 am

I think MSRP was $1500 new. I don't know what they would be used as they came out in the middle of last year.

I can deal with that price. I'll look into it, thanks, great info. I've only had bi-amped systems since the 80's. I've used crossovers by Joe Curcio, Audio Research ,and now I am just branching out to the Rane since I now have all balanced gear.

My only concern is clarity to the main amp. Well the Rane deliver. I'll know by this coming Sunday.

edwyun · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 06:01 am »

You may want to contact RenoHiFi or LowtherAmerica as they are authorized dealers for First Watt.

WireNut · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Mar 2013, 06:02 am »

Quote from: edwyun on 7 Mar 2013, 06:01 am

You may want to contact RenoHiFi or LowtherAmerica as they are authorized dealers for First Watt.

Well do.

Still, I'm hoping the Rane will give the audio research's a run for it's money.
I was hopeful when I purchased the Rane, but now I'm having second thoughts about it.
I'll report back in a few day's after the A/B test.

mjosef · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Mar 2013, 02:53 am »

I have tried a Rane AC23 and an Audio ART310, both were trumped by the cheapest Marchand XM1 modules
with upgraded opamps.
Most notable was the lower noise floor of the Marchand.

WireNut · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Mar 2013, 04:22 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 8 Mar 2013, 02:53 am

I have tried a Rane AC23 and an Audio ART310, both were trumped by the cheapest Marchand XM1 modules
with upgraded opamps.
Most notable was the lower noise floor of the Marchand.

Was your XM1 a DIY build?
Rca's or XLR's?

abernardi · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Mar 2013, 06:36 am »

I also use Marchand. I have the XM9. It uses discreet electronics, so you have to get the right crossover modules. The modules are cheap though. And I picked up the unit itself used for around $400 if I remember correctly. Check out their website, or HIS actually, I think he's a one man show, but his crossovers are very highly regarded and you'll find just about any crossover solution you need. I'm rca, but I'm pretty sure they're balanced versions. I also think he sells these as kits. As far as I can tell it's great. I don't have anything to compare it to, except that since I've gone active, my speakers are sounding much better. But I couldn't single out the Marchand for all the credit, too many variables. If I had the cash though, I'd opt for the XM26 which is the tube version with the same filter slope. The best system I've ever heard used an XM26.