[playntheblues]

Dang Norman!  I am just going to call you Wik (short for Wikipedia) 

BTW, I just love the idea of these speakers, if they live up to the hype I will own a pair.!!  So often these things don't thou, will have to wait and see.

[macrojack]

Over here the bullshit-o-meter is not stirring. It all feels pretty genuine to this cynic.

If Devialet has achieved what they are claiming (or even come close) the backlash among fearful manufacturers in all quarters will be furious and the rumors will fly.

Nonetheless, I'm with Guy, in that I will own them too.

First I'm going to have to learn how to interface them with my system needs in order to function. I have an OPPO 83, an analog tuner, a turntable and a plasma TV. Does anyone understand how I would need to go about things to make all of that work with the Phantoms? What I would need besides the speakers?

[mr_bill]

Devialet has been working on this project for three years. They have built a worldwide reputation for their products, I am betting my money that they would never bring out a lemon.

Exactly - with the capital, resource and design abilities and proven result with the current Devialet products and there performance, I think it's ridiculous that the naysayers don't believe they can turn out a good speaker too with the Devialet innards.  They just hire all the expertise that they are lacking and get the job done.

The proof will be in the product and following products.  I know they hired some heavy hitters for this design and product.

[srb]

First I'm going to have to learn how to interface them with my system needs in order to function. I have an OPPO 83, an analog tuner, a turntable and a plasma TV. Does anyone understand how I would need to go about things to make all of that work with the Phantoms? What I would need besides the speakers?

It appears that the Phantom is a digital-only system with no analog inputs or ADC unlike the Devialet amplifiers.  The Phantom itself gets its input from a network connection (WiFi or Ethernet) or an optical Toslink input, or if using the Dialog router, USB as well.

To accommodate your analog tuner and turntable you are going to need a phono preamplifier and Analog to Digital conversion.  You will also need switchable digital inputs for your TV and Oppo (unless you prefer to use the Oppo DAC, in which case another analog input).

Without assembling a gaggle of boxes, something like the NAD M12 digital preamp/DAC would work, providing analog inputs, phono input with the DD AP-1 Analog Phono Module, digital inputs and digital outputs to the Phantom or Dialog.

However, that is at a pretty high cost ($3500 + phono module), especially considering you would also be paying a high-end DAC that you won't be using.

Not sure what other digital audio switchers with analog inputs and ADC might be available at a lower cost.

Steve

[Bear]

The way these are designed is a bit limiting, everything must be compatible with the internal DAC's.  With no way to connect analog such as a turntable, what about multichannel for HT or multichannel music/DSD, toslink connectivity?  Room correction? Some missing links.  As new codec's and technologies come on board one could end up with a set or gaggle of outdated over sized paperweights.  Does the "dialog" do all the audio processing.  I don't fully understand how these things work in a HT environment.  Are these just turbocharged WiFi speakers?

[Bear]

http://devialetchat.com/Forum-phantomrising

[playntheblues]

You know they probably would fit great in a Meridian system    as the 861 can feed a digital out to each speaker.  "just sayn"

[Russell Dawkins]

http://devialetchat.com/Forum-phantomrising

Thanks for this link. I saw a couple of comments regarding the sound in this thread on that forum:

http://devialetchat.com/Thread-Has-anyone-heard-the-phantom-yet

...which tend to confirm my earlier speculations, but my mind is not closed yet. I am still very interested to read an informed report on the sonic aspects.

[Russell Dawkins]

Quite a bit more information from a December article in Soundstage:
http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/product-debuts/devialet-phantom-and-silver-phantom-december-2014

[OzarkTom]

Thanks for all the links. Sounds like this is more of a lifestyle product by what those that heard it says. I definitely don't need one of those. I was hoping someone had finally found a way to duplicate the 1978 Acoustat Monitors driven by DD amps. Now those are still the best all-in-one speaker ever produced. The younger audiophiles here might find a pair someday, just keep watch for estate sales. You never see them on the used market ever.

[Russell Dawkins]

One more listening impression from the Editor-in-Chief of SoundStage:
http://tinyurl.com/kepjdzp

[Bemopti123]

I have been reading all sort of first hand impressions from different audio industry reviewers....and as far as that goes, there is nothing but gushing reverence to the quality of sound that the Phantom produces.  Nevertheless, what I am looking for is an actual jaded audiophile having a proper set reviewed at his own time, his own place and with his own music.  More than anything, I suspect that Devialet wants to invade and destroy another niche market, of the music centers and powered speakers a la Sonos and the like.  Of course the price points are entirely different.....But, if the sound quality and its hype is to be believed....then, I would begin to lose sleep if I was the head of engineering for Sonos and the like.  The biggest impediment for widespread Phantom adoption, the beginning cost.

In terms of vinyl and other analogue sources, I am hopeful that Devialet will introduce some sort of streaming analogue to digital converter that would digitize the source in real time.....and pardoning my ignorance, wouldn't a full uncompressed bandwith analogue track be very taxing in terms of immediate streaming?  But if Devialet engineering mettle is to be believed, the core of Devialet's expertise is that, very fast audio processing power. 

I am keeping my fingers crossed and impatiently waiting til May or June.  I smell the landing of a Phantom army.  jajajaj

[OzarkTom]

But come to think about it, if this was actually a state of the art 2-channel product, the price tag would be more like $10-20K per speaker. That seems to be the going price by the manufacturers in today's market.

[Bemopti123]

But come to think about it, if this was actually a state of the art 2-channel product, the price tag would be more like $10-20K per speaker. That seems to be the going price by the manufacturers in today's market.

Perhaps, finally, the masses will have the opportunity of experiencing the same audio riches as the very wealthy with this device.  I mean, I wonder if Devialet will be able to compensate the fact that some people might purchase one and then, later purchase a second one at a later time.  From a single unit to a stereo pair, there needs to be some correlation.  Maybe they will keep the Phantom model for a couple of years before switching to newer versions. 

[OzarkTom]

The company probably has other designs in progress, time will tell..

Just think, if you only listen to mono recordings, this purchase will be half price.

[JLM]

Can't tell, is the Phantom sealed or ported?  Either way can't be an efficient design to achieve those specifications from a small cabinet and I'm not convinced that brute force electronics (wattage/DSP) is the best solution.

And the microphonics must be huge for the electronics inside!

[ACHiPo]

More than anything, I suspect that Devialet wants to invade and destroy another niche market, of the music centers and powered speakers a la Sonos and the like.  Of course the price points are entirely different.....But, if the sound quality and its hype is to be believed....then, I would begin to lose sleep if I was the head of engineering for Sonos and the like.  The biggest impediment for widespread Phantom adoption, the beginning cost.

Bemopti,
My thoughts exactly.  I never thought I'd be happy with wireless active speakers, yet I'm (and more importantly SWMBO is) delighted with SONOS.  Yet after a year of having it set up throughout the house, I got the itch to set my 2-channel rig up again, and am really enjoying it.  Now if Phantom really is the best of both worlds (and they figure out a better way to stream vinyl, as I can't seem to get my SONOS Control to work as well as the rest of the system) they may have a winning combination.  I'd certainly give it a very close look.

[Bemopti123]

Can't tell, is the Phantom sealed or ported?  Either way can't be an efficient design to achieve those specifications from a small cabinet and I'm not convinced that brute force electronics (wattage/DSP) is the best solution.

And the microphonics must be huge for the electronics inside!

It Looks to me as a sealed design but then, it is hard to tell.  That explosive acoustics that they talk about makes me point at a sealed design.  Still...I wonder how is the bass slam.  As you well know large woofers move large volumes of frontal air that aid to the impact in there...from some reports there seems to be audible impact but whether that is physically satisfying in the traditional sense, it is hard for me to tell. 

In terms of parasitic vibrations, is it possible that they got rid of that through dsp compensation?  Also the woofers seem to be of an isobaric design, made to cancel each other.  All mystery to me.

[jhm731]

From www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-report-electronics-15k-and-less/

"Most Significant Product Introduction: Devialet Phantom—a uniquely gorgeous, spherical, self-powered $2500 loudspeaker that can perform on its own or synch to other Phantoms in pairs or in multiples throughout the house via WiFi and its Spark app. Stunning."

[Russell Dawkins]

Can't tell, is the Phantom sealed or ported?  Either way can't be an efficient design to achieve those specifications from a small cabinet and I'm not convinced that brute force electronics (wattage/DSP) is the best solution.

And the microphonics must be huge for the electronics inside!

If ever a cabinet had to be sealed, this would be it! That explains the 174dB quoted as occurring internally.

They haven't said, but it doesn't really need to be, that what they have done is applied massive equalization to the low frequencies in order to get essentially flat response down to 16Hz. Since the bass drivers are not so big (8"), they need to have long excursion capabilities with tough surrounds and very over-hung, high power handling voice coils which are inherently inefficient. They will also require a ton of power to overcome the internal pressures at high levels, which is why the lower powered version still has 750 watts - of which 600 goes to the bass drivers (300w each). Since this produces a maximum of 99dB, as someone correctly stated a while back this equates to a native efficiency of around 71dB/watt.

To elaborate a little, every 10 fold increase in power produces a 10dB increase in output, so 1w=71db,10w=81dB,100w=91dB,1000w=101dB. This explains the 99dB which is attained with 600 watts.

In this case brute force is the only way to achieve these bass performance numbers in that size cabinet! There is a precedent, though - Bag End does the same, and their subs are flat to 8Hz!
I thought the same about the effects those spls would have on the electronics internally. You would think that this would be a case where potting everything would pay dividends, so long as cooling was not compromised.