AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: sarora9 on 10 Feb 2020, 03:10 am
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I got my X3's about 10 days ago and have been enjoying a lot. I believe there were quite a few tips in other threads and I thought I would start this thread to collect all tips in one place about setup, bass settings, electronics, cables, acoustic treatments, etc.
My system: Roon -> Bricasti M5 streamer -> Bricasti M1SE Dac -> AVA Set 120 Amp --> X3. Cabling is Blue Jeans for now.
Set up in living room that is part of a large open-plan space. About 6 feet from front wall. No room treatment. Sound is a bit lively right now but still pretty good. Acoustic treatments may be acceptable if WAF is good.Any suggestions?
I understand there are three bass presets in X3 but the speakers seem to arrive with no manual?
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good idea for the thread.
btw, how do you like the bricasti pieces?
regards
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An open floor plan is the absolute worst environment for a high performance audio system. I'm sure you already know that.
If you don't have carpet, get some rugs on the floor between you and the speakers. Heavy drapes for all windows. Overstuffed furniture. That will help tame some of the lively sound you are experiencing. A lot of people use diffusion on the wall behind open baffle speakers.
The speaker comes with the default crossover setting for the sub amp. The other two are not to be used. It should be the #1 setting.
Shakey
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Shakey, yes I have heard about limitations of open floor spaces. However, when I moved my audio system from a small room to this open space (18 years ago) I found the open space distinctly better. It allowed the music more breathing space, kind of like a church or cathedral. (I had a Dennis Murphy speaker + sub back then.)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=204477)
The room does have a carpet, thick enough that I think I need longer spikes than the ones the X3s came with. I'd welcome suggestion, and also for unobtrusive acoustic treatment.
Heavy drapes and overstuffed furniture is not going to pass muster :( See a photo of the space (ignore the clutter from unpacking the X3s and the subs from the old speakers). There is a glass french door to the garden on the left and large glass solarium to the left at the back. Right above this space is an open study, also with glass doors.
Musicdre, the Bricasti DAC+streamer is fantastic and I like that it doesn't need a separate preamp. Bought it at an impulse when a good deal came along and haven't compared it to the recent raft of new dacs.
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I'm sorry but I can't be of much help to you. Whenever sound quality takes a back seat to aesthetics, you will never achieve what the system is capable of. The best you can hope for is a percentage of what could be achieved without those constraints.
You've got some good equipment there, hopefully you can at least obtain a level of sound quality that you can live with. But I don't envy your situation.
Good luck.
Shakey
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Shakey, as I mentioned this space actually sounds way better than any of the smaller rooms in my house. The soundstage is better than setups I have encountered in some NYC showrooms. I also routinely attend live concerts (classical and jazz) that I compare to. It is a lively sound but somehow works.
I suppose I could put the diffusers on the wall behind the X3s. Do you have suggestions for good diffuser panels?
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I am looking at GIK acoustic's absorbent/diffusor panels and am not sure what would be best. I was wondering if anybody has suggestions. https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/4a-alpha-panel-diffusor-acoustic-panel-bass-trap/
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I'm not an X3 owner but I do have some experience with OB speakers. I actually think your space is decent. Certainly not fundamentally flawed.
I'd recommend trying both absorption and diffusion, especially on the upper part of the left wall. There's an imbalance because there's a full wall on that side only. Sometimes absorbing the sound will get you the best balance, sometimes diffusion will.
One nice thing about OB speakers is they perform better in a lively space than standard box speakers can. The other thing I'd recommend - sit closer to the speakers - you'll get more direct sound and less reflected sound as you do. With OB speakers, this is a neat trick that really lets you dial in their sound.
IME you can generally get to within about 5 or 6 feet before things start to not integrate properly. Angle the speakers so they point slightly behind your head, instead of pointing them more straightforward.
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Yes I agree with Tyson, I have been playing around with moving the speakers ( M5's ) and toe in . At 4 to 5 feet, with toe in at my ears, the room is eliminated from the equation. The sound is perfect. It does play some tricks with the mind . So now I not only mark the speaker sweat spot , also the chair position. It is a bit self indulgent but the least expensive tweak you will find.
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Tyson and Jazzman, that was a great suggestion. Moved the speakers a foot closer to the front wall and placed myself at the third end of an equilateral triangle (after some trial and error). Soundstage is much improved. Wife tried it too and is impressed. A weird thing we noticed was that with well-recorded material ---we listen to classical most of the time--- we could crank up the volume and reach real-life spl levels (yes, I have used a dbl meter in the concert hall :)) and almost not notice the increase in volume.
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Yes Sarora, with great speakers and amp, I think we just hear more detail, presence, and dynamics not volume. Now , for a real treat push the speakers up a few feet from the end of the triangle! That is near field listening. It will take the room out of the equation. Fun, Fun, Fun. That is what makes these speakers so great, they are fun to live with.
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I would not go too crazy with any positioning or room treatments until they are broken in. And you likely have a long way to go until that's done. Mine showed improvement well into the mid 300 hour mark.
Shakey
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My hypex volume setting is 1 clock before max. I don't think it's room nodes but wondering what other people's settings are at? I don't really believe in burn in, probably more your ear is getting acclimated to the sound. Would ideally like at 50% for greater range of volume control. Not sure if it's possible to modify or change the eq settings
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Two things.
My sub amp volume control is around the same setting. Seems fine.
Break in is VERY real. Speakers and electronics. I just went through a break in process with a Lumin streamer. Big difference after a couple hundred hours. My ears didn't acclimate to the sound, putting my Node 2i back in the system told the story.
Shakey
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I have M5s at maybe 250 hrs. I’m a skeptic about break in too. But in speakers it makes sense, and I cannot deny the M5s sound a lot better now than out of box. A lot. Not just my ears acclimating, even if there is some of that. Near field, say 4-5 feet, they are really good.
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Yes Stockpit, I am about 200 hrs on my M5's and just this week I am notching vast improvement in everything about the speakers. I am just starting to listen to symphonic and rock music, with particular delight in how they handle symphonic. I am hearing all parts of all instruments. I am now also realizing just how good the Manley is, the speakers are releasing all it has. The detail and subtleness of this, made in the USA, pairing is truly a keeper. I did speak with Clayton at the Florida and he mentioned not to be afraid to play them loud to before a listening session to loosen up the bass.
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Getting the M5s as far as possible into a small room and then being close to them best eliminates the room.
This is wrong thread to continue on, but I’m auditing the LTA Z10 integrated now as well. Oh my. :D
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Getting the M5s as far as possible into a small room and then being close to them best eliminates the room.
This is wrong thread to continue on, but I’m auditing the LTA Z10 integrated now as well. Oh my. :D
Full report please on the Z10 and your M5 when you are ready please? Very interested in that one.
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Just got my notice from Clayton. My X3's are done and are being packed up today. Yipee!
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Congrats! I know you are anxious.......
Shakey
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Congrats! I know you are anxious.......
Shakey
That was 6 weeks ago...
Thanks Shakey
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Just got my X3's 10 days ago, got about 30 hours on them. Still fine tuning positioning and the speakers from what I understand will sound better after a couple hundred hours on them. pretty happy with them now tho.
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Although they will sound very good after a couple hundred hours, another 100 or so before you get all they got. Hang on, you got a ways to go.
Shakey
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Was the difference quite noticeable ?
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Yes, mostly in the lower midrange to lower bass.
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That is, no pun intended, music to my ears. That is exactly where I am hearing a bit of deficiency. These will be great when fully rounded out.
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thinking of next amp upgrade, thoughts on Pass xa25 vs First Watt SIT-3 who has heard both preferably?
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thinking of next amp upgrade, thoughts on Pass xa25 vs First Watt SIT-3 who has heard both preferably?
SIT 3 is a better sounding amp but you must have a speaker with very high efficiency as well as very flat impedance. The XA25 is a better match to Spatial speakers, as they benefit from the extra control and grip of the XA25 design.
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SIT 3 is a better sounding amp but you must have a speaker with very high efficiency as well as very flat impedance. The XA25 is a better match to Spatial speakers, as they benefit from the extra control and grip of the XA25 design.
Why would it benefit from extra grip? I thought x3 were 97db efficient.
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Yes the speakers are 97 db efficient but some efficient speakers still get a little more dynamic capability with a little more power. I would think the XA25 would have a little more ability to handle the dynamic swings of music.
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I would think that either amplifier would be overkill as far as power goes. I am feeding my M4 Triode Masters (93 db eff.) with about 8 watts and this powers the twelve inch bass speaker as well. If I listen to rock music very loud (to my ears), I am only hitting around 90 db at 1 m in front of the speakers, which means I am using less than 1 watt. The room is 10' by 20' by 8'. I don't sense any lack of dynamics but maybe a larger room would have an effect on dynamics. Seems to me that either amp would just be idling at a lot less than 1 watt for 97 db speakers.
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As I have said before, I am running my X5s with less than 2 watts using 45 tubes and I play it LOUD sometimes. I am much less concerned about dynamic swings than I am about hearing vocals that cause me to melt in place. We all are looking for something different, so unfortunately the only way to know if you will like a particular amp with your speakers is to try it out. I have gone through probably 10 amps in the last couple of years using different Spatial Audio speakers and for me, my 45s hit the sweet spot. YMMV
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My X3's arrived on Thursday, hooray! I had a friend help me put them in my media room and plug them in. They are now playing disc 2 from The Wall on repeat as I took my family and left for our summer home where it's much less populated. When I return in two weeks (guessing) they should be pretty close to broken in. As my wife said, "You've quarantined your new speakers".
I'll post impressions once I return. Everybody please stay safe. Best of luck during this trying time.
Jeff
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Somehow a pair of X-5's landed in my lap and I'll be hooking them up tomorrow with the following chain:
Aries Streamer-->MHDT Orchid-->LTA MZ2-->DAC King Cherry
And they are already broken in as is all the electronics so I should be getting great sound soon.
What do the rest of your systems look like? Have you found synergy with any particular components?
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Just got the Firstwatt SIT-3 sounds pretty amazing with the x3. No problem in dynamics.
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Somehow a pair of X-5's landed in my lap and I'll be hooking them up tomorrow with the following chain:
Aries Streamer-->MHDT Orchid-->LTA MZ2-->DAC King Cherry
And they are already broken in as is all the electronics so I should be getting great sound soon.
What do the rest of your systems look like? Have you found synergy with any particular components?
so you're the buyer.... :( Good for you though. Please post your impressions.
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Hahahaha. Yes. Please don't sick your dog on me :D
Absoltely will post my impressions.
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Somehow a pair of X-5's landed in my lap and I'll be hooking them up tomorrow with the following chain:
Aries Streamer-->MHDT Orchid-->LTA MZ2-->DAC King Cherry
And they are already broken in as is all the electronics so I should be getting great sound soon.
What do the rest of your systems look like? Have you found synergy with any particular components?
I have found the Carver Crimson 275 a great match with the X3.
Shakey
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Somehow a pair of X-5's landed in my lap and I'll be hooking them up tomorrow with the following chain:
Aries Streamer-->MHDT Orchid-->LTA MZ2-->DAC King Cherry
And they are already broken in as is all the electronics so I should be getting great sound soon.
What do the rest of your systems look like? Have you found synergy with any particular components?
did you pick up the Sonoma ones?!
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Question for X3/5 owners. Are the spikes 1/4 20? That's what I think I remember, but not sure.
Also, has anyone tried the Track Audio spikes? I am considering a set of these.
Shakey
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did you pick up the Sonoma ones?!
Yes, just got them today and just plopping them down and hooking them up with zero adjustments and woahhh. They are super impressive. Immediate and large improvement over the M3TM.
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I have found the Carver Crimson 275 a great match with the X3.
Shakey
Thanks Shakey.
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I've got a couple questions for you X3 owners (or Clayton if he's available).
Can you give me an idea of minimum and maximum room sizes the X3s perform well in? Assume an approximate 8 or 8.5 foot high ceiling.
Do they sound best on the short wall or long wall of a rectangular room?
What's the minimum distance to the front wall?
Thank you in advance.
Be well.
Michael
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My room is 26 x 15 x 8 and the X3 seems to be perfect for this size room. I have the speakers 52” from the back wall and 28” from the side walls. I have tried them further into the room and as close as 3.5 ft to the wall but this seems to be the location where they just gel with the room IMHO. I can’t say how they would work in smaller rooms, but since they load the room so differently than box speakers, I tend to think they would work in many spaces.
Shakey
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Shakey,
Thank you for replying.
My main listening room is similar to yours - 29' x 15' x 8' (15' wide in the front half; 13' wide in the back half behind the listening position). My Apollos are 5' from the front wall and about 8.5' apart.
I think I'll call Clayton to ask about different room sizes and how his speakers behave in each size.
Be well.
Michael
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OB's are WAY less fussy than box speakers when it comes to room placement. They will sound great just about anywhere, as long as you can get them at least 3 feet from the front wall. More is better. And side walls tend to be much less intrusive than with box speakers.
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Michael, I have no doubt the X3s will sound great in your main listening room. The max dimensions of my room are 20' x 15' with an 8' ceiling, and they sound amazing to me. The room is far from a regular rectangle, for instance the short wall behind the speakers has a jog in it such that the right side of the room is 20' long while the left side is 19'. Because of this the right speaker is 6' out from the wall behind and the right 5'. Speakers are 29" from the side walls.
I know you sometimes come through my area and you are welcome to hear my X3s when things get back to normal.
Here's a diagram of my room, if they can sound so good in here, they might be ever better in your room. The speakers are in the 15' wide part, chair is in the 13' 9" wide area, and behind the chair it's 10' 11" wide.
Speakers are 7 feet 8 inches apart inside edge to inside edge. Distance from each AMT driver to the sweet spot seat is 11 feet.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206451)
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Thanks for your comments.
I told myself that I would treat myself to another great pair of speakers, DAC, or amp/preamp/integrated amp if I manage to come out of this pandemic unscathed. Fear of my catching it has me triggered in a big way. :o
The X3's are in the running. Fingers are crossed for good health.
My other room - home office is 11' W x 14.5' L x 8' H. I'm not sure if it's a good fit. Two-way monitors may be a better fit(?).
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IMO I believe you would like a min of 3 feet in room placement along with 9-10 feet to the listening position. I have X-5's and at 8 feet or so at the listening position, I wish I was back a few more feet.
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Thanks for your comments.
I told myself that I would treat myself to another great pair of speakers, DAC, or amp/preamp/integrated amp if I manage to come out of this pandemic unscathed. Fear of my catching it has me triggered in a big way. :o
The X3's are in the running. Fingers are crossed for good health.
My other room - home office is 11' W x 14.5' L x 8' H. I'm not sure if it's a good fit. Two-way monitors may be a better fit(?).
MY ROOM (home office) IS EXACTLY THOSE DIMENSIONS. Clayton advised me to get the M5s and thought I might be too close to the AMT of the X models. Am liking the M5s. Do wonder how much better the Xs sound, but didn't want to overpower the room or be too close to the AMT. Always worth a call to him.
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Hi
I wanted to give an update on the issue of speaker feet for X3. My floor is suspended wood with thin carpet layer (with a basement/crawl space underneath.) I tried (a) Isoacoustic Gaia II (b) SVS subwoofer feet (c) Herbie's spike slider https://herbiesaudiolab.com/products/cone-spike-decoupling-glider?_pos=3&_sid=87cd22a38&_ss=r
The Gaia II was the best, but also pricy ($600). As soon as you put them in, instruments are better defined, sweeter/purer. Bass no longer seems to come from the speakers, and is properly located in the soundstage. Clearly the stock spikes were causing resonance in the wood structure of the house (not audible in itself, but audible in the sound change produce in the speakers). Once you hear the difference it is almost impossible to go back to the stock spikes; I find myself wincing.
Herbie's sliders seem 75% as effective as Gaia II, but at 1/4th of the price. I think many people could be quite happy with them. I am switching back and forth for a day or two to see if I will keep them.
The SVS subwoofer feet don't fit this application and left the speaker wobbly. Maybe one could use them by unscrewing part of the spike structure and using suitable washers/screws etc. from the hardware store. I didn't try that.
YMMV depending upon your floor structure.
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Can anyone comment on the importants of power cords for the subwoofer amps on the X3 or X5?
I'm quit aware that an upgraded power cord cord can make a huge difference on certain gear, especially source components, but how dramatic of an improvement does it make on subwoofer amps?
I'm contemplating the purchase of the Spatial Audio X5 and one other speaker brand, and calculating the associated costs for each speaker. With the X5 I'll need two additional power cords for the amps, which can get quite costly depending on how crazy you get. The other speaker is completely passive, so no additional power cords needed.
Thanks
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I'm using generic black cords into my X5's and they sound great to me.
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Can anyone comment on the importants of power cords for the subwoofer amps on the X3 or X5?
I'm quit aware that an upgraded power cord cord can make a huge difference on certain gear, especially source components, but how dramatic of an improvement does it make on subwoofer amps?
I'm contemplating the purchase of the Spatial Audio X5 and one other speaker brand, and calculating the associated costs for each speaker. With the X5 I'll need two additional power cords for the amps, which can get quite costly depending on how crazy you get. The other speaker is completely passive, so no additional power cords needed.
Thanks
Sumoking reported to me that he tried several power cords on his X3 bass amps and found the Audio Envy power cables noticeably improved the sound. Maybe he can expound on that here.
Clayton
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Just wondering if I were to move the speakers to open floor plan, living room with huge open areas, would the x3 sound bad due to no bass pressurization from smaller rooms?
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Just wondering if I were to move the speakers to open floor plan, living room with huge open areas, would the x3 sound bad due to no bass pressurization from smaller rooms?
The X3 usually produces very powerful bass in large open rooms.
Clayton
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Can anyone comment on the importants of power cords for the subwoofer amps on the X3 or X5?
I'm quit aware that an upgraded power cord cord can make a huge difference on certain gear, especially source components, but how dramatic of an improvement does it make on subwoofer amps?
I'm contemplating the purchase of the Spatial Audio X5 and one other speaker brand, and calculating the associated costs for each speaker. With the X5 I'll need two additional power cords for the amps, which can get quite costly depending on how crazy you get. The other speaker is completely passive, so no additional power cords needed.
Thanks
I have found that the audio envy power cable is a nice upgrade for low money. Worth it and recommended.
Message me with questions. Thanks.
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I purchased my X3s in satin red yesterday. Spoke with Clayton about the purchase. He was very gracious with his time.
The subwoofers are out of stock. He expects delivery next week. The good news is that he has a few Red Satin baffles in stock so they will begin building my speakers right away. Delivery estimate to me is a few weeks. He said he will contact me after delivery to help with set up. He said I should leave the GIK 6A diffusion panels on the front wall as they are well positioned for the mid range driver. Clayton recommends 3 feet out from the front wall. I can go 6 feet if needed and still maintain a 10 foot equilateral triangle.
Speakers will be on carpet which is on laminate flooring and over a concrete slab (typical Las Vegas home). My first upgrade will be the IsoAcoustics Gaia Series II Isolation Feet with spikes. These will mount on to highly polished (slippery) carpet sliders. I'm 70 years old and can't imagine picking up and moving the speakers constantly. Luckily, my hearing is good!
Anxious for delivery now that I made my decision.
Marcus
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Marcus - I also submitted my order for X3 a few days ago but need to be a little more patient for my build. Looking forward to pics of your red units to keep me going.
Ron
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Congratulations Ron. Aside from the subwoofer delay, Clayton said when they are finished with the build they plug the speakers in and test them for a day or two.
Marcus
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Speakers will be on carpet which is on laminate flooring and over a concrete slab (typical Las Vegas home). My first upgrade will be the IsoAcoustics Gaia Series II Isolation Feet with spikes. These will mount on to highly polished (slippery) carpet sliders. I'm 70 years old and can't imagine picking up and moving the speakers constantly. Luckily, my hearing is good!
Anxious for delivery now that I made my decision.
Marcus
Marcus,
Look into Herbies Audio Labs. They make a slider / isolator that sounds perfect for your set up. I use them on my X5's. I also had the GAIA's and I really couldn't tell the difference between the two. Both made a nice improvement but the Herbies pieces were lots less expensive. It will leave you some extra cash for other add ons.
Congrats on your purchase. Like you, I've been around the block a time or two, and I love my X5's.
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If the floor is not suspended (ie concrete) then I'd suggest trying the included spikes first.
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To help me with "instant gratification" anxiety, I thought I would stir up a conversation about the X3.
1. My seated ear height is 38 inches. The speakers are 49 inches. Does anyone tilt their speakers forward to position the AMT driver directly at the MLP?
2. Has anyone tried "extreme "toe-in" to provide three abreast (all seated in recliners) listeners with a solid center image?
Just curious.
Marcus
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To help me with "instant gratification" anxiety, I thought I would stir up a conversation about the X3.
1. My seated ear height is 38 inches. The speakers are 49 inches. Does anyone tilt their speakers forward to position the AMT driver directly at the MLP?
2. Has anyone tried "extreme "toe-in" to provide three abreast (all seated in recliners) listeners with a solid center image?
Just curious.
Marcus
I prefer to sit below the AMT with my X5s. Ear height at approx 30in when I'm slouching on the sofa with my feet up, which lines up with the mid driver. I tried extreme toe-in, and they sounded fine, but ultimately settled with them pointing maybe 6 inches or so to the outside of either shoulder.
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JTF, thanks. I suppose the wave guide helps. Good news for me as I was not looking forward to tilting the speakers! I most likely will give extreme toe-in a try. But, honestly, I am the only one who cares deeply about music. I'll probably end up pointing them a few inches to each side of my ears at the MLP.
Marcus
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I believe Clayton designed it so that your ear height should be that as the bottom on the waveguide
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Thanks Radarnyc! Good to hear. Clayton said he would talk with me after setup to help with fine tuning. I suspect I'll get a few tricks and tips from him.
Marcus
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Game Plan:
Placement: When the speakers arrive, I'll set them up about 4 feet from the front wall, about 3 feet from side wall, about 9 feet apart and 11 feet to MLP. Toed-in. I have room to move them around as needed.
Equipment:
- JRiver Media Center (version 27) will be set to Stereo (2.0) and convert DSD to PCM 24/192 (per normal).
- HDMI to Marantz AV8805. Audyssey OFF. Stereo mode. X3s set to large with measured distance to MLP. All other speakers and subwoofers physically disconnected. Marantz set to "Pure Direct" mode (eliminates all non-audio processing within the pre/pro).
- XLR to Parasound Halo A52+ amplifier. Supposedly, class A amplification up to 10 watts.
- 12 gauge "blue jeans" speaker wire to X3s.
Yes, I am looking at DACs to put between my computer and the Marantz. But, can't do it now. I want to try out the speakers and allow burn in.
Thanks! Marcus
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Hello DP and congrats on your new X-3's. I think your on the right track with your toe in approach although the room itself obviously plays a big factor.
You have probably seen my review, which shows you how I have set mine up.
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9VeZOdatao&t=194s&ab_channel=AudioTalk
Cheers...
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I found this very helpful for speaker placement. My box speakers sound better another 2' or so out into the vs what the GIK folks told me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyTkwkK8ON0
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@Desertpilot. How much lead time are you looking at for the X3 before shipping?
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Hello DP and congrats on your new X-3's. I think your on the right track with your toe in approach although the room itself obviously plays a big factor.
You have probably seen my review, which shows you how I have set mine up.
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9VeZOdatao&t=194s&ab_channel=AudioTalk
Cheers...
Yes! I've watched all your videos. Thank you. I especially liked your interview with Clayton. Very informative.
Marcus
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@Desertpilot. How much lead time are you looking at for the X3 before shipping?
Ordered April 21st. Spoke with Clayton, he said the subwoofers were on back order. He should get them tomorrow. He hopes to ship to me around May 7th. At the moment there are only a couple of orders ahead of me. In January, he said he had 45 orders in process. So, build and shipping is dependent on how many orders he has to fulfill. I am hopeful he gets the subwoofers in stock and can indeed ship May 7th.
Marcus
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I found this very helpful for speaker placement. My box speakers sound better another 2' or so out into the vs what the GIK folks told me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyTkwkK8ON0
Thanks! I've watched LOTS a few times. I am sure, at some point, I will use it to better position my speakers. I have some GIK panels. I think they are very good. But, their speaker position tutorial is not good.
Marcus
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Ordered April 21st. Spoke with Clayton, he said the subwoofers were on back order. He should get them tomorrow. He hopes to ship to me around May 7th. At the moment there are only a couple of orders ahead of me. In January, he said he had 45 orders in process. So, build and shipping is dependent on how many orders he has to fulfill. I am hopeful he gets the subwoofers in stock and can indeed ship May 7th.
Marcus
Thanks. I have a pair of X5's on order but the Hypex subwoofer amps are also backordered. Crossing my fingers!
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Quick update. There is no update. I emailed Clayton Friday and left a voicemail Monday but no reply. Maybe he's at an audio show or something. Meanwhile, I went ahead and bought a DAC. I want to run the speakers with DSD256 to analog. Can't wait but I guess I'll have to wait a while longer.
Marcus
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I contacted him on Monday and he had been out of town. He is probably doing email catch up now.
What DAC did you buy?
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I contacted him on Monday and he had been out of town. He is probably doing email catch up now.
What DAC did you buy?
Thanks! Did you get a build update from him on your X5s? Mine should be along the same time frame. If not, maybe I will call him again.
I purchased the Exasound S88 (multichannel DAC with streaming). Why? I've lusted for an Exasound every since Kal Rubinson (Stereophile) reviewed them many years ago. It is a chip not tube model. I can, of course, use it just for two channel but keep the multi channel capability. Build time is two weeks. There is a 30 day return policy. Pricey but at 70 years old, this is the time. I can't wait any longer.
I'm all solid state. NAS to PC, JRiver on PC to Exasound dac via USB (can be via LAN as well), analog out via XLR to Marantz AV8805, Marantz analog out via XLR to Parasound A52+ amplifier. I feel pretty confident about hookup. Exasound offers great help too.
Marcus
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Thanks! Did you get a build update from him on your X5s? Mine should be along the same time frame. If not, maybe I will call him again.
I got an email reply from him today. The parts are in and my speakers should ship out pretty close to the original time window.
I am really looking forward to this!
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Great news! Thank you so much for the update. Hopefully, mine will ship out soon as well.
Marcus
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Still no word on build progress and shipping for my X3s. I decided to have a little fun and list albums I want to play through them when they get here. I have both stereo and multichannel versions of most albums. I'll stick with stereo to test out the speakers.
Test Disc:
PS Audio's The Audiophile Reference Disc, Volume 1, DSD64
JAZZ:
McCoy Tyner with Stanley Clarke & Al Foster, DSD64
Marion Meadows: Players Club, DSD64
Aram Bedrosian: A Dark Light, PCM 24/96 (available on his website).
Classical:
Honeck: Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 in D minor, ‘Choral', DSD256, Soundmirror Mix/Master Team. Orchestra and choral.
Wilson: English Music for String Orchestra, PCM24/96, Ralph Couzens; Alex James Mix/Master Team. String Ensemble.
Fischer: Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky; Lieutenant Kijé Suite, DSD256, Soundmirror Mix/Master Team. Orchestra and choral.
Steinbacher: Fantasies, Rhapsodies & Daydreams, DSD64, Roger de Schot Mix/Master. Violin.
Rittner: Chopin: Complete Etudes, DSD64, Friedrich Wilhelm Rödding Mix/Master., Piano
Thompson: Schubert: String Quintet (with Double Bass), DSD64, Daan van Aalst; Jared Sacks Mix/Master Team. Double Bass.
Rattle: Berlioz: La Damnation de Faust, DSD64, Jonathan Stokes, Neil Hutchinson (Classic Sound) Mix/Master Team, Choral plus soloists.
These are the albums I will focus on for testing. Each with a specific instrument/vocal. This will be loads of fun.
Can't wait! Marcus
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Breakin period is 300 hours.
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Breakin period is 300 hours.
I agree. I'll "endless" loop music 24/7. But, they better sound exceptional right out of the box. 300 hours should make them sound better and better. My new DAC will need some burn in time too. I guess I'll be doing a lot of listening (LOL).
Marcus
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I just downloaded in DSD256, Rachmaninov: All Night Vigil by Gloriæ Dei Cantores. Recording Engineers: Brad Michel, Dan Pfeiffer. Yes, I have the Bruffy version as well. I am adding this to the list of albums to try with the new DAC and X3s. Check the YouTube link for a sample and reviews. Just breathtaking choral. Plenty of deep male voices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjFi_g_iOIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjFi_g_iOIY)
Marcus
Las Vegas
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I agree. I'll "endless" loop music 24/7. But, they better sound exceptional right out of the box. 300 hours should make them sound better and better. My new DAC will need some burn in time too. I guess I'll be doing a lot of listening (LOL).
Marcus
Mine were not exceptional for quite a few hours and I bought mine used! However the prior owner only used a low powered tube amp. These require lots of power over quite a few weeks to months to fully open up. They sounded good when I got them ,but now they sound exceptional. Also I tweaked components, cables, placement, etc.
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Mine were not exceptional for quite a few hours and I bought mine used! However the prior owner only used a low powered tube amp. These require lots of power over quite a few weeks to months to fully open up. They sounded good when I got them ,but now they sound exceptional. Also I tweaked components, cables, placement, etc.
Understood. I have heard this from everyone. I have the Parasound Halo A52+ amplifier. The first 10 watts is Class A power then A/B. Max power to 2 speakers, 8 Ohms, is 225 watts. I've used this amp with my current 4 Ohm SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers with no power issues. I am sure the X3s will be a substantial upgrade in sound over my bookshelves. But, as you said, burn in is important.
Marcus
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Mine were not exceptional for quite a few hours and I bought mine used! However the prior owner only used a low powered tube amp. These require lots of power over quite a few weeks to months to fully open up. They sounded good when I got them ,but now they sound exceptional. Also I tweaked components, cables, placement, etc.
So when I get mine setup, will you help me out with setup? I mean, we've done this before. And why do we almost always end up with the same speakers? :P
What's up Morgan! I ordered the X3's this past weekend from the "The Show". Now I sadly need to sell my Usher Tower XL's. Hope these speakers are as good as some say they are. Lena still regards the LS6's and the Gradient Evolutions her favorite speakers. Partly why I'm hopeful the Spatial X3's can get close to the Gradients in soundstage and give the speed and dynamics of the the line arrays. I know you've listened to the LS6's bu did you hear the Gradients in our room?
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Guess we both just have excellent taste :)
I never heard the gradients so can’t comment there.
The X Series are super fast and detailed with excellent staging.
I love mine paired with a tube pre for a tiny extra bit of warmth.
But as mentioned earlier....they need a long break in!
Sure hope your golden ears in the family loves them ! I think she will! What’s the current wait time?
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What’s the current wait time?
My X5's just got shipped after 10 weeks. Add up to one more week for freight delivery depending on your location.
I bought these after hearing the M5 Sapphire at Linear Tube Audio with their excellent Z10i amp.
I have no doubt that the wait will have been worth it.
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I'm not sure where people are coming up with the idea you need high watts for break in or even for normal playing. With the sensitivity of X5's or even X3's you will never get more than 20 watts out of your amp. And it won't be for long as you will be at ear splitting levels. X5's cruise along at "normal" listening levels of about 82 decibels at 4 or 5 watts. Now to get 10 more decibels you have to double the wattage. So you are at about 8 to 10 watts to get to 92 decibels which is getting up there. So 16 to 20 watts gets you about 102 decibels, and if your listening at over 100 decibels for very long well......good luck down the road with your hearing. So many guys are running things with small watt amps and loving them. One of Clayton's favorite amps with his speakers is the LTA10 that's maxes out at 12 watts. He played it at shows, and loud when asked, at about 6 watts. Guys that are running class A for the first 10 watts are lucky because they basically never have to leave class A during a listening session. The sensitivity of these speakers just don't use, nor need, more than a few watts.
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I read it takes twice the wattage to increase volume just 3 dB which is a very small increase See here: https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/217201737-Doubling-Power-vs-Doubling-Output?mobile_site=true
Al
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I read it takes twice the wattage to increase volume just 3 dB which is a very small increase See here: https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/217201737-Doubling-Power-vs-Doubling-Output?mobile_site=true
Al
You're forgetting to account for the sensitivity of the speakers. But....whatever you say. With what youve posted a flea watt amp, or even the LTA10 wouldn't be able to get Spatials above moderate listening levels. And I had an LTA at one time and had no problem getting to LOUD. music with a ton to spare on the volume dial. I've seen some guys here post that you need 200, 300, 400 watts per side to make sure they have enough "headroom" and it's just laughable when talking about 95 to 97 sensitivity ratings.
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...Guys that are running class A for the first 10 watts are lucky because they basically never have to leave class A during a listening session. The sensitivity of these speakers just don't use, nor need, more than a few watts.
This is good news for me. My Parasound Halo A52+ theoretically stays class A for the first 10 watts.
Marcus
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Guess we both just have excellent taste :)
I never heard the gradients so can’t comment there.
The X Series are super fast and detailed with excellent staging.
I love mine paired with a tube pre for a tiny extra bit of warmth.
But as mentioned earlier....they need a long break in!
Sure hope your golden ears in the family loves them ! I think she will! What’s the current wait time?
I think 4 weeks but that puts us at potentially moving out of state. Home is nearly ready but there is so much bad energy surrounding this home, lots of unknowns.
Well, if you love them, then we can't be far off. Lena is not a fan of bad bass, and most speakers have bad bass due to unfriendly rooms -generally. Our room will be dedicated to 2 channel and 1 wall will have rockwool...
Having some control on bass output turned me to the X series. Already liked the naturalness and stage considering it was a hotel room.
The Ushers are sensitive to source with bass. And I mean even with a brilliant Dac, the USB feed is critical. I don't have any low powered tube amps but liked what the LTA integrated was doing.
Gradients are amazing in staging. I swear I got up from my chair and walked around the musicians, and I was alcohol free! Lets see what the X3's will do in their own room.
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I spent some time rearranging my X3s and have managed to set them up better. I used a dayton usb mic. I wanted to note a few observations that may be useful to others.
(i) The subwoofer driver is really only crucial below 70 hz or so. You can check this by turning off the subwoofer power and measuring the output.
(ii) A consequence of (i) is that the subwoofer level cannot really be set by ear (at least for nonexperts). I realized I had set mine too high, by about 4-5 db. After fine tuning the level is set with the knob at around 4pm for me. Going by ear I had set it to 5:30 pm, which I now realize was fatiguing. Suddenly the music is more relaxing and clearer and it measures flatter.
(iii) I moved the X3s away from the half wall (see the picture in the opening posts of this thread) and in front of a full wall. (My awesome wife said she could live with that :) Then the bass is pretty flat down to about 31-32hz, falling rapidly beyond that.
(iv) I started with the two speakers almost 5 ft in front of the wall and moved them back 2in at a time. The sonic differences in sound from a 2-inch move were sometimes quite noticeable. The final placement is around 3.5ft from the wall. I'll still continue to fine tune it.
(v) I still have a little peak around 75hz and have a -3db cut in roon dsp.
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Tweeter Height: As a X2 owner, I believe the tweeter is very similar or exactly the same as the X3/5 tweeter. Any case, I can't emphasize enough the importance of having your ear height very close to the middle of the Beyma AMT tweeter. The vertical dispersion I found to be lacking so if you are sitting too high or too low your missing out big time IMHO.
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I'm not an X3 owner but I do have some experience with OB speakers. I actually think your space is decent. Certainly not fundamentally flawed....
I'd like to amend my initial statement. I AM NOW AN X3 OWNER!!!! Order placed today, 6 week wait time - can't wait! Woot!!!!!
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I'd like to amend my initial statement. I AM NOW AN X3 OWNER!!!! Order placed today, 6 week wait time - can't wait! Woot!!!!!
Congrats! Now the wait.
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Congrats! Now the wait.
Well, I do have a pair of Super 7's in my main system downstairs so I am hardly suffering in the meantime, haha. The X3's are for my 2nd system upstairs in the main living area. I have hotrodded Klipsch Forte III's there now, which I love very much, but I think OB sound has ruined me for life :D
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Well, I do have a pair of Super 7's in my main system downstairs so I am hardly suffering in the meantime, haha. The X3's are for my 2nd system upstairs in the main living area. I have hotrodded Klipsch Forte III's there now, which I love very much, but I think OB sound has ruined me for life :D
Speaker Lab or Serenity Acoustics?
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Speaker Lab or Serenity Acoustics?
Serenity Acoustics.
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Can’t wait to hear your comparison Tyson. I’ve wanted a pair of the Super 7’s since they came out!
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Can’t wait to hear your comparison Tyson. I’ve wanted a pair of the Super 7’s since they came out!
A friend of mine has a pair of diy box speakers that use the AMT tweeter that the X3 uses, and I also have been listening to the X2's with that same tweeter at Steven Stone's place and I can say that that tweeter is fully on par with what the OB/Waveguide Neo3 is capable of in the Super 7. That AMT tweeter is spectacularly good. I'm sure the rest of the X3 measures up, and I'm anticipating that the X3 will be an incredibly good speaker.
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I just sprung for the ISOacoustics feet as Spatial offered a discount.
Not even shipped and I'm already having mods performed :duh: :lol:
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After doing DIY then going to Herbie's products, IsoAcoustics products are great! I use them under everything--amplifier, dac, turntable and each time the sound improves. Highly recommended!
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I just sprung for the ISOacoustics feet as Spatial offered a discount.
Not even shipped and I'm already having mods performed :duh: :lol:
I installed the GAIA II (with spikes) on my X3s immediately on delivery. The speakers need feet. Decoupling from the floor is important. Given the positive reviews, why not? Between open baffle cancellations and the decoupling feet, I have removed lots of items to "worry" about.
Marcus
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A lot has been written about decoupling with spikes here. When you use spikes directly into the floor, you are actually coupling, not decoupling. You are using the floors greater mass to distribute the vibrations.
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I just sprung for the ISOacoustics feet as Spatial offered a discount.
Was this something that appeared on their website? I just ordered my M3s about two two weeks ago and didn't notice an option to upgrade to the IsoAcoustics feet.
Thanks.
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I just sprung for the ISOacoustics feet as Spatial offered a discount.
Not even shipped and I'm already having mods performed :duh: :lol:
Ha! I did the same thing! Hoping to get my X3's soon. So much hype and pent up excitement, I'm worried about confirmation bias taking over once I hear them. :D
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Ha! I did the same thing! Hoping to get my X3's soon. So much hype and pent up excitement, I'm worried about confirmation bias taking over once I hear them. :D
Lots of folks, including Clayton, try to lower expectations for the speakers "out of the box." But, in my situation, the speakers are so much more robust than my previous bookshelf speakers that I can never go back. I'm hopeful there is great sound improvement over time as some have noted. That would be a bonus. My speakers are 7 weeks old. I've pumped a lot of music through them. I am enjoying every moment listening to music with the X3s.
Marcus
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I was underwhelmed by my M5s for months. Brightness and lack of bass in a small room was the issue. I've since treated the room fully with help of GIK, swapped out some tubes, and continued to refine speaker placement. During this year and a half the speakers themselves have ripened. These last few days, I've been very impressed with the result, esp. on well recorded stuff.
I wonder if long break in for me wasn't longer because of small room and low listening volume. 35/100 on my LTA Z10i (with 12 quality watts) is plenty loud. In any case, I'm just reporting this to confirm what others have said: Don't expect magic out of the box, don't panic, be patient. In my case, 1.5 years patient.
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I was underwhelmed by my M5s for months. Brightness and lack of bass in a small room was the issue. I've since treated the room fully with help of GIK, swapped out some tubes, and continued to refine speaker placement. During this year and a half the speakers themselves have ripened. These last few days, I've been very impressed with the result, esp. on well recorded stuff.
I wonder if long break in for me wasn't longer because of small room and low listening volume. 35/100 on my LTA Z10i (with 12 quality watts) is plenty loud. In any case, I'm just reporting this to confirm what others have said: Don't expect magic out of the box, don't panic, be patient. In my case, 1.5 years patient.
IMHO you're spot on. I got so lucky and snagged my X-5s second hand just before Covid from a very nice gentlemen who has a great ear but was only using a 2 watt amp. The speakers would sound good and then horrible and then I bought a DAC amp and cranked the speakers up for a month straight, would leave home with the mms blaring for hours and then finally they broke in.
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Has anyone checked with Clayton about having them do some additional burn in before shipping the speakers?
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Has anyone checked with Clayton about having them do some additional burn in before shipping the speakers?
Hey guys - yes, we can run them in for around 1 week prior to shipment if you request that. So much for the idea that break-in is not real. You would think the naysayers would simply ask speaker manufacturers about whether break-in is a thing or not. I wish it weren't :) You have to wonder about anyone that says they can't hear any change in their speakers over time.
Happy listening
Clayton
spatialaudiolab.com
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Hey guys - yes, we can run them in for around 1 week prior to shipment if you request that. So much for the idea that break-in is not real. You would think the naysayers would simply ask speaker manufacturers about whether break-in is a thing or not. I wish it weren't :) You have to wonder about anyone that says they can't hear any change in their speakers over time.
Happy listening
Clayton
spatialaudiolab.com
Thank you
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Thought I would share my recent experience with the X3. I've owned the X3s for about a year and a half. While I've powered them with several different preamps and power amps (A, A/B, D, tubes), I have always been impressed and totally satisfied regardless of the electronics. However, I just moved the whole set-up to a larger room with vaulted ceilings. I have to admit that I was excited about the potential benefits a larger might provide, yet I was a bit reticent at the same time. I mean you never know........
Let me start out by saying that as a scientist I always try to be objective and avoid bias, although hardly realistic in our hobby. At any rate, even at lower volumes (65-75 SPL), I feel like I'm in the front row of an acoustically superb music hall. I'm hearing the reverb from standup bass strings; I mean, that's crazy! The grand and subtle sounds of acoustic and electric instruments and percussion, it just blows me away. At the present, I getting all this from an an XA25 and microzotl preamp, come-on man!
I was so impressed with the X3s I called Clayton the other day and expressed my appreciation for his work. He, as always, was humble yet interested in my impressions. We talked about amps as well and how SA speakers are really making their mark. Anyway, I hope you all are having as much fun as I am. Best,
Mike (aka onaclearday)
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Thank you to everyone who is contributing here. I know I have found your comments and advice invaluable as I work through my own X3 journey. In fact, I have gone through these threads several times and each time I get more "tricks & tips" to apply to my own situation. Several of you have recently purchased the X5/X3 speakers. Please let us know when they arrive and your thoughts.
I am in the process of making a few more changes. My speakers are pretty much set for location and toe-in. GIK acoustic panels are in place. But, I have recently come to the conclusion that running analog out from my DAC to analog in on my pre/pro is not acceptable. It is clear to me now that while the pre/pro says "pure" it is not pure. The analog signal is indeed "played with" and then sent to my amplifier. Users of my DAC at Audiophile Style (formerly computer audiophile) advocate running analog out from my DAC direct to my amplifier via XLR cables. So, today, to eliminate any possible noise and distortion from my pre/pro, I will run my DAC direct to my amplifier. I can input speaker distances in to JRiver and ROON. I can control channel volume on the DAC and master volume on either my JRiver or ROON remotes. The difference, I am sure will be subtle. But, while listening, it will be one less thing to distract my listening experience.
I recently made a couple of additional changes. I converted my home theater PC (which I had doing both video and audio) to video (movies) only using HDMI to my pre/pro. I had a spare laptop which I stripped and converted to audio only using USB to my DAC. This actually simplified my life since I was always making settings changes depending on video or audio.
As you know, I enjoy multichannel surround music (5.0 and 5.1). I learned that, for music, I should be using surround back left and surround back right speakers. Not side surround speakers. Yeah, I moved my surround speakers to the rear of my room. I guess you never stop learning.
Thanks for listening.
Marcus
Edit: Listening to music all afternoon. Yes, DAC direct to amplifier seems much "cleaner" to me. But, it could be the "placebo" effect. Doesn't matter. Now, I don't have to think about it.
Edit #2: Piano music seems the most improved.
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Just got my notice from Clayton. My X3's are done and are being packed up today. Yipee!
Deadhead, congrats! When did you order them?
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Does anyone know at what room size Clayton advises the X3 vs. the X5? My current room is 15' x 15'. I'm awaiting delivery on X5's. But (in the playground of my mind) I would someday perhaps like to expand the room by 9 feet making it 9' x 15' x 24' (H-W-L). Would the X3's be better in that size room?
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Does anyone know at what room size Clayton advises the X3 vs. the X5? My current room is 15' x 15'. I'm awaiting delivery on X5's. But (in the playground of my mind) I would someday perhaps like to expand the room by 9 feet making it 9' x 15' x 24' (H-W-L). Would the X3's be better in that size room?
The only differences is the size of the subwoofer (from 12 to 15 inches). This requires the X3 speaker to be larger. Sonically, I would expect the larger sub to be a better fit in larger rooms. But, depending on setup, the X5s should be fine. Call Clayton for his opinion. My space is 30 feet long which Clayton said was a good size for the X3s.
Marcus
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I had a little scare today. As you know, I purchased a third X3 for center channel duties. Today, I was playing a Jazz album (CHRIS BOTTI, NIGHT SESSIONS in 5.1 multichannel, DSD 64). Lots of bass. As I was listening, I thought the center channel was not producing enough bass. I felt the rear of the bass driver on all three speakers. The left and right speakers were pulsing away. But, the center channel sub was barely moving. My heart dropped. I thought I got a defective speaker. So, I swapped the left and center channel speaker wires. Whew! Center channel sub was rockin' and rollin'. Left channel sub was quiet. Must be the way the music was mixed.
Marcus
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I had a little scare today. As you know, I purchased a third X3 for center channel duties. Today, I was playing a Jazz album (CHRIS BOTTI, NIGHT SESSIONS in 5.1 multichannel, DSD 64). Lots of bass. As I was listening, I thought the center channel was not producing enough bass. I felt the rear of the bass driver on all three speakers. The left and right speakers were pulsing away. But, the center channel sub was barely moving. My heart dropped. I thought I got a defective speaker. So, I swapped the left and center channel speaker wires. Whew! Center channel sub was rockin' and rollin'. Left channel sub was quiet. Must be the way the music was mixed.
Marcus
Is it hooked to a receiver or an HT pre-pro? If so, check to make sure the center channel is set to "Full Range".
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Is it hooked to a receiver or an HT pre-pro? If so, check to make sure the center channel is set to "Full Range".
No pre/pro or receiver. Music from DAC direct to my amplifier. It is all good now that I checked and verified sub is working properly.
Marcus
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Just got notified, my X3's are being delivered on Monday - woot!!
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Just got notified, my X3's are being delivered on Monday - woot!!
Congrats!
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Just got notified, my X3's are being delivered on Monday - woot!!
Yes, congrats.
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Just got notified, my X3's are being delivered on Monday - woot!!
Tyson. Awesome news. You are going to love them!
Marcus