Reference C-core TVC

F-100 · « **on:** 10 Feb 2008, 07:17 pm »

Has anyone tried the Reference C-core TVC yet?
Is there any significant difference between the C-core and EI core version?
Any comment is appreciated.

Thanks

ferenc_k · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 06:37 am »

I have a Signature C-Core, which I really like after the normal Ref 5 TVC.

audiodoc · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 03:22 pm »

Could you describe any major differences?My reference tvc is really souding great.I'm sure the c-core is better.How much is what I'm after.I'm leaning toward an apollo with all c-core-just to get one box and no interconnction between Active preamp and tvc- although it may be negligible .Mike

cookin'

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 03:50 pm »

Quote from: audiodoc on 11 Feb 2008, 03:22 pm

Could you describe any major differences?My reference tvc is really souding great.I'm sure the c-core is better.How much is what I'm after.I'm leaning toward an apollo with all c-core-just to get one box and no interconnction between Active preamp and tvc- although it may be negligible .Mike

cookin'

I own an Apollo preamp and it has double C-core trannies only for the tube buffer. It sounds extraordinary good after replacing some high quality components (I modified from 6N1Ps to 6922s version). I think you do not need another pair double C-cores on the TVC.

audiodoc · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 04:31 pm »

I have plenty of 6922's,Siemens,Amperex.Really good tubes.Not sure about the Russian tube Nic uses.I don't think they are as good as the NOS 6922's just easier to get your hands on.Did you get the buzz eliminated?I may just get the active preamp with c core and use my tvc as it is.I would like to do the mod for the 6922's.Does Nic provide this option on fabrication?

Mike

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 04:59 pm »

Quote from: audiodoc on 11 Feb 2008, 04:31 pm

I have plenty of 6922's,Siemens,Amperex.Really good tubes.Not sure about the Russian tube Nic uses.I don't think they are as good as the NOS 6922's just easier to get your hands on.Did you get the buzz eliminated?I may just get the active preamp with c core and use my tvc as it is.I would like to do the mod for the 6922's.Does Nic provide this option on fabrication?

Mike

Mike,

Since my Apollo preamp is able to work with 6922s I have tried every of from best to fine 6922s but the buzzing sound is still there. I think 6922's microphonic sound is the nature of them you would not definitely eliminate them. That is why manufacturers, DIYers and audiophiles are using 6N1Ps and 6H30s because they claim those Russian tubes have low noise (no microphonics or buzzing sounds) and sound excellent enough(?). I personally do not like the sound of either one of them too. However, I found another replacement of 6922 without or much less microphonic sound (as my friend's suggestion) but it also depends on your preamp or tube buffer condition. Let's have your C-cores then I can show you how to switch from 6N1Ps to 6922s. Nicholas Chua is very busy and I do not know if you can wait for his answer soon. Good luck.

Regards,
Tan

PS: I apologize to F100 about this little changing of your topic. Thanks for understanding.

PromitheusAudio · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 06:17 pm »

tan

Been busy rolling out our amps and the Chinese New Year holidays

things are settling down here. So going to spend some time to get the Apollo to work with 6922.
perhaps
which are the 6922 models that emit this buzz.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 08:05 pm »

Quote from: PromitheusAudio on 11 Feb 2008, 06:17 pm

tan

Been busy rolling out our amps and the Chinese New Year holidays

things are settling down here. So going to spend some time to get the Apollo to work with 6922.
perhaps
which are the 6922 models that emit this buzz.

Nicholas,

Happy New Year to you and your family.

I have tried to roll most of the best NOS 6922s and 5Y3 tube of PS after I have done (almost completly) replacing the step attenuator volume control, caps and resistors. The 6922's microphonic could not be eliminated because of the tube nature as you also know that. However, before I still do a research to find other replacement for 6922s. Have you tried the 5842/417A tubes yet? This is an excellent input tubes and cheaper than most of NOS 6922s.

Tan

ferenc_k · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 09:03 pm »

Quote from: audiodoc on 11 Feb 2008, 03:22 pm

Could you describe any major differences?My reference tvc is really souding great.I'm sure the c-core is better.How much is what I'm after.I'm leaning toward an apollo with all c-core-just to get one box and no interconnction between Active preamp and tvc- although it may be negligible .Mike

cookin'

It has more body, realistic dynamic contrasts, smoother and more drive. Better in every sense.

Few photos in my gallery.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1232

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 10:12 pm »

Quote

It has more body, realistic dynamic contrasts, smoother and more drive. Better in every sense.

Ferenc_k,

Do you get any unbelievable real vocals? Does the sound muddy or hangover (sometimes the sound has body but still a little hangover)? How about are there any black background?

ferenc_k · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 Feb 2008, 10:44 pm »

I am very satisfied with the really real vocals I got

It is definitely not muddy, extremely pure and fast, it lets the music flowing same way how the Altmann Attraction DAC does.
It drives an 1250W pro MC2 Audio amp and a Danley SH100B PA speaker from the Altmann perfectly well, the system just fills the room with a kind of unlimited energy, but never screams. This energy somehow more than a dynamics, in the sense of a traditional hifi description. The Danley SH100Bs have a coherency, which is quite rare in the world of multi way horn speakers, the Promi Signature TVC fits very well in this system, I did not find any weakness yet, I put some 350 hours in the units.

bhootnu · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Feb 2008, 04:49 am »

Hi Folks,

I got TVC C-core just a week ago...

and I must tell, that with C-core TVC Promitheus just stepped up to another level on his TVC line.

Having had Ref.4 , I can confirm, that TVC C-core sound is 3D bigger, deeper in bass, better resolution ...and fuller in body.

I feel more "energy" from these huge C-core transformers...most amazing is dynamic.

Thank you, Nicholas for nice product and congratulations!

Rgds,
Andrey Tiurpenko.

audiodoc · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Feb 2008, 04:06 pm »

I'm torn on which upgrade to change to Ref 5 to either an Apollo or Ref C-core.I'm leaning toward a Ref C-core.A little more drive appears to be produced by both with the Apollo allowing passive and active when needed.I don't think I can go wrong with either. :

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Feb 2008, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: audiodoc on 13 Feb 2008, 04:06 pm

I'm torn on which upgrade to change to Ref 5 to either an Apollo or Ref C-core.I'm leaning toward a Ref C-core.A little more drive appears to be produced by both with the Apollo allowing passive and active when needed.I don't think I can go wrong with either. :

In my system I have tried standard and reference TVCs (3 and 4) but I preferred a standard with more gain. However, an Apollo preamp with modification will give you more juice, details and sweetness. It also depends on how you tweak it.

I was padding underneath the output trannies of my Promitheus DAC with two piece of ebony wood (I think Nick did to the Reference C-cores TVC too) yesterday and noticed the addition of sweetness, punchy with body but no distorted sound and details to my music. I will do the same to my TVC trannies in the Apollo preamp this weekend.

kp93300 · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Feb 2008, 09:21 am »

Quote from: tanchiro58 on 13 Feb 2008, 07:09 pm

Quote from: audiodoc on 13 Feb 2008, 04:06 pm
I'm torn on which upgrade to change to Ref 5 to either an Apollo or Ref C-core.I'm leaning toward a Ref C-core.A little more drive appears to be produced by both with the Apollo allowing passive and active when needed.I don't think I can go wrong with either. :

In my system I have tried standard and reference TVCs (3 and 4) but I preferred a standard with more gain. However, an Apollo preamp with modification will give you more juice, details and sweetness. It also depends on how you tweak it.

I was padding underneath the output trannies of my Promitheus DAC with two piece of ebony wood (I think Nick did to the Reference C-cores TVC too) yesterday and noticed the addition of sweetness, punchy with body but no distorted sound and details to my music. I will do the same to my TVC trannies in the Apollo preamp this weekend.

Hi tanchiro58
Can you elaborate more on the difference in sound between Ref and C core TVC ?
Thanks
Kp

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Feb 2008, 09:38 am »

Quote

Hi tanchiro58
Can you elaborate more on the difference in sound between Ref and C core TVC ?
Thanks
Kp

Kp,

I do not own and have not heard a Ref C-core TVC yet and heard the Ref3 or Ref4 before. I prefer the sound of Apollo preamp (C-core at tube buffer stage not TVC) in my tube system since I need more juice with full sound but not lack of details and sweetness of the TVC. I have tried to ask Nick Chua about the upgrading to C-core of the TVC part but have not got his answer yet. If you have a solid state system you would have no doubt to purchase the Ref C-core TVC which will add an amazing musical warm sound to your system.

kp93300 · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Feb 2008, 02:58 pm »

Hi tanchiro,
Thanks for your reply
I have place an order for the Promitheus DAC.
My existing set up with a gainclone is already very warm . I need a transparent TVC with neutral sound characteristic.
The c core and apollo is about the same price and wonder which is more flexible and neutral.
KP

F-100 · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Mar 2008, 06:00 am »

My Reference C-core TVC arrived today and are up and running. With less than couple hours of playing time, the C-core sounds more alive with a broader sound stage and a bit more dynamics then the EI-core version. The new chassis is very cool looking with Ebony wood and thick copper plates on both top and bottom panel.

More updates later.

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Mar 2008, 07:04 am »

Quote from: F-100 on 7 Mar 2008, 06:00 am

My Reference C-core TVC arrived today and are up and running. With less than couple hours of playing time, the C-core sounds more alive with a broader sound stage and a bit more dynamics then the EI-core version. The new chassis is very cool looking with Ebony wood and thick copper plates on both top and bottom panel.

More updates later.

F100,

Congratulations you got a new toy. Excellent choice. :thumb:I will get one if my budget allows.

Tan

audiodoc · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Mar 2008, 05:45 pm »

Nick:Is it possible to make the C-cores tvc's with a 1:2 output for those needing more gain and maintain excellent sound quality?

Mike