AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => P.I. audio group => Topic started by: dBe on 6 Oct 2010, 05:40 pm
-
I have been getting emails and calls all morning long about what some people THINK that I said in my post below. I'm trying to get ready for RMAF and my plate is too full to spend all of my time answering emails and talking on the phone. Mind you, I like all of you out there and talking to people, but I have to get things done before RMAF and will need to get some sleep, too.
For anyone that thinks that I belittled the MAC Mini or said that it is flawed, please reread what I posted. Without a doubt it is the best available computer from which to create a dedicated music server. Darrell and Kevin have come up with a set of modifications (hardware and software) that will render the modified unit basically unfit as a dual purpose machine. Their mods are not the kind of things that you want to do to a Mini that you want to listen to and surf the web at the same time. This is SERIOUS STUFF, folks. Their modifications are extensive and purposeful. Don't try these at home, even if you could!
Let me make my points very clear to answer questions and quell any concerns that people may have.
1. Before the 2010 Mini came out the older Mini had firmly established itself as the best choice as a music server/computer. This was especially true when the online tweaks were applied to it to turn off non-essential services, etc. Eric and Crew had figured this baby out and established the Tranquility/Mini as a benchmark in digital audio. Eric spent many hours of his valuable time helping his customers in setting up their systems to give the highest quality possible at that time. Then the Applecart was turned over with the release of the 2010 Mini. It sounded better out of the box than a tweaked earlier generation Mini.
2. The 2010 MAC Mini is simply the best option for a DEDICATED music server, as well as a dual purpose machine.
Enter Darrell and Kevin - a new paradigm.
3. The modifications that the Dynamic Duo make are ONLY for a single purpose music server. Period!
4. All commercial products, including the MAC Mini, are built to a pricepoint. It is unsurpassed as a multitasking machine. It sounds terriffic in its' stock form.
5. Like all things, the MAC Mini can be improved, especially IF you throw away its' functionality as a home computer. These improvements do come at that cost, however. It took a helluva lot of work by a couple of dedicated and well intentioned audionuts to do so. Their work takes the MAC Mini to new levels as a music server... not as a computer. Forget that idea.
6. The Tranquility DAC/Essential USB/MAC Mini is the best bang for the buck digital music combo I have heard. I find it more intellectually and emotionally satisfying than almost every "high end" DAC/player combo I have heard with the possibility of the dCS - and only possibly. I still hear the output of the dCS as 'digital', if you know what I mean. It never sounded like analog playback. I just hear music from the Tranquility/2010 Mini combo... especially considering the total investment.
Fear not. The MAC Mini is THE computer of choice for home use. It is my ONLY choice as a music server when modified the the boys here. It kicks butt.
Now, back to the Batcave to work on BUSSes and cables.
Dave
-
Great post, Dave. Lots of helpful information in there. Hope you knock them dead at RMAF. :)
-
Great post, Dave. Lots of helpful information in there. Hope you knock them dead at RMAF. :)
Thanks, Clayton. I hope so, too. :D
People never fail to amaze me. I never thought that anyone would read anything negative into my original post on the 2010 Mini mods. WRONG AGAIN!!! I was getting: "I thought that you said the MAC Mini is the greatest thing since sliced bread and now you are saying that it is a POS!". Sheesh! It just goes to show the mentality of some people. They are all ready to spin something positive into a 180 degree position. I guess that is why political pundits have jobs, eh? :lol:
You and I and a lot of other people know that the Mini IS the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now we can just have it with butter and jam. :D I like butter and jam on my bread... bread toasted, of course. :thumb:
Thanks for your support, my friend.
Dave
-
I think many people may want a one-off solution where they can just buy it and have it create the best sound without tinkering with it. And maybe this is where people get the wrong idea about the Mac Mini (even though it sounds great right out of the box).
A lot of products (especially computers) will work great out of the box, but with anything computer-based, there's always going to be tweaks, modifications and add-ons that will push it past that point into something better, faster or just really damn impressive. Digital audio is a really sensitive thing, as so many things can affect the quality of the sound. All these tweaks and mods and workarounds add up to something that just really sounds damn amazing, it's just knowing how far you want to take it. You can grab a stock Mac Mini and be done with it, and get really good sound out of it. Or you can grab a Mac Mini and tweak the hell out of it and have your jaw drop on the floor because you realize how damn good it sounds, especially for the price.
You'll always have my support Dave, as we have the great products like yours because you always get down to the last detail. Which IMO is invaluable in this industry where people can charge an arm and maybe even a leg for their products and they are still scratching their heads wondering how your products do it so well. I wish I could attend RMAF to see you and Eric turn your toys into pure music. I'm looking forward to people's reactions. :lol:
-
This sounds just like my old Toshiba laptop that I used for 24/96 field recording. It needed all sorts of things turned off and striped down for the bits to flow free in the field, without there being a risk of drop-outs.
I believe I paid the gentleman $200 plus parts to construct it for me... It was capable of running the net and what not while not recording though. You could boot it up for recording OR some simple normal usage.
-
Hello everyone, I am a newbie to this forum but a long time music lover. I live north of Denver and was at RMAF on Friday and thought the GR Research room was one of the three or four best sounding rooms. Actually, to put it differently, there were three or four good sounding rooms and the rest, well you know.
I have been looking for a simple but very musical computer based system and it looks like the db Audio Tranquility DAC and Mac Mini is a very good option. Since I do not know the players here, does it make sense to make another trip to RMAF on Sunday to discuss or will it be just as effective to talk to the players post RMAF. I am interested in understanding how I get a iPad front end (using Pure Music?) ==> Mac Mini (modified) ==> DAC up and running.
Your counsel is appreciated.
-
Whitebird,
I have a mac mini, currently feeding an EE dac (but am getting the Tranquility Sig). I use Pure Music also. Eric with dbAudio will walk you thru the Mac mini setup, and you can use the Remote app to control from your Ipad (everything except 'pause') while using Pure Music. Great and simple setup!
Best,
Randy
-
or just go here http://usbdacs.com/Macintosh/Macintosh.html
-
Buy the Tranquility, the Mac Mini and the iPad first. Worry about a modified Mac Mini and Pure Music after, as they're just tweaks to a working system.
Also, you need a wireless router too, which I assume you have.
If it seems very mysterious now, it won't be later. Once you get the three major components, you'll just set up one thing at a time and it will be easy.
-
Good advise -- get it, play with it, upgrade it. Thanks
-
Just don't forget a monitor or TV with HDMI cable with keyboard and mouse :lol:
Buy the Tranquility, the Mac Mini and the iPad first. Worry about a modified Mac Mini and Pure Music after, as they're just tweaks to a working system.
Also, you need a wireless router too, which I assume you have.
If it seems very mysterious now, it won't be later. Once you get the three major components, you'll just set up one thing at a time and it will be easy.
-
Lots of folks have been asking about our MacMini mod Services. Info can be found at Mach2Music.com
Darrell
-
Darrell, that link doesn't seem to work for me.
Thnx,
Randy
-
try this http://www.mach2music.com/ (http://www.mach2music.com/)
-
Lots of folks have been asking about our MacMini mod Services. Info can be found at Mach2Music.com
Darrell
What are the exact mods that are done though?
-
We won't be listing out an exact mod list (i.e. how-to list). I hope you can understand why.
Thanks,
Darrell
-
We won't be listing out an exact mod list (i.e. how-to list). I hope you can understand why.
Thanks,
Darrell
I'm not asking for a how to list...I"m just asking for a list of what is done on something that you ask "only" $1495 for. I hope you can understand why. :wink:
-
Darrell:
Couple of questions:
(1) what is the price if I already have a 2010 Mac Mini (already with SS hard drive, 8g ram, and music on Oyen FW external drive)?
(2) can the mini still function for other basic computer things post mod (such as internet access when necessary, running certain apps such as Sample Manager when necessary)?
Thanks!
Randy
-
Darrell:
Couple of questions:
(1) what is the price if I already have a 2010 Mac Mini (already with SS hard drive, 8g ram, and music on Oyen FW external drive)?
(2) can the mini still function for other basic computer things post mod (such as internet access when necessary, running certain apps such as Sample Manager when necessary)?
Thanks!
Randy
Randy,
Since you have all the hardware purchased and installed, the price for the software setup is $395. We would wipe your drive so we get the cleanest setup (and sound). The price includes return shipping (insured).
While we turn off lots of things that optimize non-audio apps, the computer still can run other programs, access the internet, surf the web, etc. We recommend that you don't install and run other apps though as they could have background process that could somewhat impact your sound quality. But, you can do it however no problem.
Darrell
-
The processes listed here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Mac-OS-X-tweaks-decrease-overhead-music-server seem to work really well. :thumb:
-
The processes listed here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Mac-OS-X-tweaks-decrease-overhead-music-server seem to work really well. :thumb:
Those are a great start for those wanting to research, test and make their own mods. The Amarra website also has a good list of tweaks (similar to the ones you linked to). Our service is for those that don't have the time or desire to spend their time this way. Our mods take things a lot further too.
Our Mach2 MacMini's replaced two MacMini's at RMAF. One was a 2010 model with the mods you linked to, and a few more. Those that heard the A/B tests all agreed it wasn't even close. In both instances we were asked if our Mach2 MacMini could be used for the rest of the show.
We ended being in the GR Research/dB Audio Labs/Dodd Audio/Pi audio group room, and the GIK Acoustics/BPT, Empirical Audio/Salk room.
Some people enjoy researching and learning about how to mod things. They enjoy the testing, and the work involved doesn't seem like work at all. It can be great fun and of course, its free.
Others prefer to buy something that sounds great from the beginning and just enjoying the music. For those people we provide our service. We are just providing an option for folks. :thumb:
Darrell
-
Those are a great start for those wanting to research, test and make their own mods. The Amarra website also has a good list of tweaks (similar to the ones you linked to). Our service is for those that don't have the time or desire to spend their time this way. Our mods take things a lot further too.
Our Mach2 MacMini's replaced two MacMini's at RMAF. One was a 2010 model with the mods you linked to, and a few more. Those that heard the A/B tests all agreed it wasn't even close. In both instances we were asked if our Mach2 MacMini could be used for the rest of the show.
We ended being in the GR Research/dB Audio Labs/Dodd Audio/Pi audio group room, and the GIK Acoustics/BPT, Empirical Audio/Salk room.
Some people enjoy researching and learning about how to mod things. They enjoy the testing, and the work involved doesn't seem like work at all. It can be great fun and of course, its free.
Others prefer to buy something that sounds great from the beginning and just enjoying the music. For those people we provide our service. We are just providing an option for folks. :thumb:
Darrell
That's all great but I still would like to know where $1495 goes. I would imagine that $1495 includes the price of a new mini. Right? You posted that if someone owns their own machine it costs $395. So where does the other $1100 go?
-
That's all great but I still would like to know where $1495 goes. I would imagine that $1495 includes the price of a new mini. Right? You posted that if someone owns their own machine it costs $395. So where does the other $1100 go?
from mach2music website:
"We provide a new 2010 Unibody Mac Mini with a 40-GB Solid State Hard Drive and 4-GB of system memory. For Music storage, a 320GB external hard drive will be provided. For an additional cost this can upgraded to 500GB or 1TB. "
-
from mach2music website:
"We provide a new 2010 Unibody Mac Mini with a 40-GB Solid State Hard Drive and 4-GB of system memory. For Music storage, a 320GB external hard drive will be provided. For an additional cost this can upgraded to 500GB or 1TB. "
$1100 is a lot of money if that's all that's done. I have a 120GB OCZ Vertex drive and 4GB and it was MUCH less then $1100. Oh well. It is what it is, guess I'll continue with what I have and stop asking questions that aren't going to be answered about why I should purchase this unit that PI Audio recommends.
-
A 2010 Mac Mini (2.4GHz) with 4GB RAM and 320GB hard drive is $800. I don't know which 40GB SSD is installed, but there are eight sold by Newegg from $100 to $125. After the replacement, the stock 320GB drive can be installed into the external USB hard drive case. I also don't know which external USB case is provided, but the total cost of parts could be ~ $1000. An extra $100 or so for physical hardware install/swapping, reinstallation of OS and testing labor is not outlandish.
Steve
-
$1100 is a lot of money if that's all that's done. I have a 120GB OCZ Vertex drive and 4GB and it was MUCH less then $1100. Oh well. It is what it is, guess I'll continue with what I have and stop asking questions that aren't going to be answered about why I should purchase this unit that PI Audio recommends.
it depends........ if you buy new Mac Mini ($699 + tax), add extra 2G memory ($100) add 40G SSD ($150) add external 350G HD = ?????? more or less the same.
It seems like their cost for Mac optimization (I wouldn't call it mods) is $395. To decide if it is worth it, will depend on your computer skills and understanding.
-
A 2010 Mac Mini (2.4GHz) with 4GB RAM and 320GB hard drive is $800. I don't know which 40GB SSD is installed, but there are eight sold by Newegg from $100 to $125. After the replacement, the stock 320GB drive can be installed into the external USB hard drive case. I also don't know which external USB case is provided, but the total cost of parts could be ~ $1000. An extra $100 or so for physical hardware install/swapping, reinstallation of OS and testing labor is not outlandish.
Steve
Ahh. I guess with the tittle of this thread and from the comments around this forum I thought there was more to it other then what I've been doing for the last couple of years. :dunno:
-
Hardware wise you may have our mods. The others nailed the $1100 cost question perfectly. In short we spend $1020 for the hardware, tax, shipping and $80 to install the Solid State Drive. I tried getting free hardware from the Hardware Fairy, but...
Our software mods far exceed the ones you linked to previously, and we make it so people don't have to spend the time hunting down tweaks, testing them, etc. Obviously you have a tweaked system and aren't interested in on of our systems. That's 100% fine, but I have several orders to fill for folks that heard the Mach2 MacMini, loved it, and want one. I will focus on that, and the questions of potential customers.
Mach2 Music wants to supply MacMinis to those that hear about what we are doing, like it, and want a system. I have no desire to try to convert folks or argue with folks for any reason. Audio is supposed to be FUN, not a PITA :duh:
-
Hardware wise you may have our mods. The others nailed the $1100 cost question perfectly. In short we spend $1020 for the hardware, tax, shipping and $80 to install the Solid State Drive. I tried getting free hardware from the Hardware Fairy, but...
Our software mods far exceed the ones you linked to previously, and we make it so people don't have to spend the time hunting down tweaks, testing them, etc. Obviously you have a tweaked system and aren't interested in on of our systems. That's 100% fine, but I have several orders to fill for folks that heard the Mach2 MacMini, loved it, and want one. I will focus on that, and the questions of potential customers.
Mach2 Music wants to supply MacMinis to those that hear about what we are doing, like it, and want a system. I have no desire to try to convert folks or argue with folks for any reason. Audio is supposed to be FUN, not a PITA :duh:
From someone who has spent thousands with PI Audio I'm surprised with your attitude. I've spent a bunch with Dave and have always recommended him to others on this forum. It's really a shame that you are tarnishing that...
This is not what I expected from someone who rolls with GR, Dodd and PI Audio. :scratch:
-
Here's something else for MacMini folks to try:
http://sbooth.org/AyreWave/
-
Here's something else for MacMini folks to try:
http://sbooth.org/AyreWave/
The current version of Play.app is terrific. This new 64-bit version looks promising. I can't wait to give this a test.
Thanks for posting the link.
-
Can it be controlled with ipod, iphone or ipad?
Can it run Amarra?
Do you guys stand behind your product - support/warranty/future upgrades?
Thanks :thumb:
-
Hardware wise you may have our mods. The others nailed the $1100 cost question perfectly. In short we spend $1020 for the hardware, tax, shipping and $80 to install the Solid State Drive. I tried getting free hardware from the Hardware Fairy, but...
Our software mods far exceed the ones you linked to previously, and we make it so people don't have to spend the time hunting down tweaks, testing them, etc. Obviously you have a tweaked system and aren't interested in on of our systems. That's 100% fine, but I have several orders to fill for folks that heard the Mach2 MacMini, loved it, and want one. I will focus on that, and the questions of potential customers.
Mach2 Music wants to supply MacMinis to those that hear about what we are doing, like it, and want a system. I have no desire to try to convert folks or argue with folks for any reason. Audio is supposed to be FUN, not a PITA :duh:
I for 1 fully understand both your company's position and the reason for your frustration here. I'm sure there are many AC members who will appreciate what you're doing for them. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
From someone who has spent thousands with PI Audio I'm surprised with your attitude. I've spent a bunch with Dave and have always recommended him to others on this forum. It's really a shame that you are tarnishing that...
This is not what I expected from someone who rolls with GR, Dodd and PI Audio. :scratch:
I really do think that distance and the inability to hear what Mach2 has done is somewhat coloring the conversation.
Darrell has written very specific software for the 2010 MAC Mini. It is not at all comparable with anything I have seen or heard in the mod department. The SQ far surpasses what I have heard on machines running all of the internet tweaks that I know of, hands down.
The price that they charge for their service and for full packages is quite reasonable in my estimation. $80.00 for installation of the SSD is less expensive than most computer specialists will charge a person here in Albuquerque.
I don't see any tarnishing going on here. Both of you guys are as direct as I am and that is a good thing, mostly. :D
Now, if Mach2 could only figure out how to not pay $699.00 for the Mini, THAT would be something.
Dave
-
Now, if Mach2 could only figure out how to not pay $699.00 for the Mini, THAT would be something.
Dave
:lol:
-
Can it be controlled with ipod, iphone or ipad?
Can it run Amarra?
Do you guys stand behind your product - support/warranty/future upgrades?
Thanks :thumb:
Yes, you can use a ipod, iphone, ipad, another mac, or even a PC to control the Mach2 MacMini. With these options, you don't even need a monitor, mouse , or keyboard at the music rack.
You can absolutely run Amarra. The GIK Acoustics/BPT, Empirical Audio/Salk room at RMAF, used our Mach2 MacMini with Amarra.
In fact, we are becoming Amarra and Pure Music resellers (deal made at RMAF). You will be able to buy the Amarra and/or PureMusic directly from us. We will install and configure it for you at no additional charge.
We already have optimization scripts for Play.app, iTunes, Amarra, Pure Music, and Pandora. They got a good field test at the show.
The Apple warranty is still intact. They are fine with memory and upgrades. For the software, we but a back-up image on the hard drive we return to you. If you have problems we will try to talk you through debugging it. If we can't figure it out quickly over the phone, the back up will restore you to our Original state. It take 12-15 minutes in total.
Of course if you keep an itunes Library, you should make your own backup periodically...
Apple updates will work fine on our setup. If/when release the sucessor to Snow Leopard, there will be a fee for upgrades, as it will be a major overhaul of everything. We don't expect that anytime soon.
Darrell
-
Here's something else for MacMini folks to try:
http://sbooth.org/AyreWave/
Yep. Steve Booth has written some great software that maximizes reproduction quality by minimizing CPU requirements. "Play" is still the best sounding of the bunch on one of the Mach2 modified machines. The equally popular Pure Music is less dynamic and a wee bit veiled in comparison. As AyreWave gets more exposure I think it might surpass the others. Who knows. This stuff is changing daily and is hard to keep a finger upon.
Always interesting to see and hear all of the new stuff, huh?
Dave
-
I for 1 fully understand both your company's position and the reason for your frustration here. I'm sure there are many AC members who will appreciate what you're doing for them. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
Robin,
Thanks for your understanding. We really think we have a great sounding product and have priced the services as low as possible. I appreciate getting audio at reasonable prices and we hope to provide the same for the good folks here at AC.
Darrell
-
As a complete computer dummy I greatly appreciate what mach2music offer.
While $3,300 for a SOTA full digital front end (optimized Mini, Tranquility DAC, cable, iPod, 1 TB HD) is amazing, unfortunately its just too rich for my blood.
And I can't imagine even getting close to this level of playback or features any other way.
-
As a complete computer dummy I greatly appreciate what mach2music offer.
While $3,300 for a SOTA full digital front end (optimized Mini, Tranquility DAC, cable, iPod, 1 TB HD) is amazing, unfortunately its just too rich for my blood.
And I can't imagine even getting close to this level of playback or features any other way.
JLM,
You could go with the stock MacMini without the Mach2 hardware and software upgrades. That would save you about $750, making the price closer to $2,500. It would be a very nice setup and the folks here on AC could provide you with some good tweaks. The stock MacMini / Tranquility DAC is excellent. :green:
Later, when you can save up the other funds Mach2 Music would be happy to take you to the next level.
Really, if you can swing the $2500, get the stock MAcMini and Tranquility DAC. Its ROCKS!!!
Darrell
-
Darrell,
Can you supply a RAID 1 FW 800 backup ? If not how do you recommend BU be done, i.e., to maintain optimum performance, since you have carefully selected all the hardware ?
-
Absolutly, a RAID backup is great. The enclosure we provide for music has two Firewire 800 ports so your backup can plug in via Firewire 800 for fast backups. :thumb:
-
Have you looked at the new appleTV? That could save most of the cost of the mac mini if it could made to work.
Can you use an optical dac with the mac mini, or only usb/firewire?
-
Have you looked at the new appleTV? That could save most of the cost of the mac mini if it could made to work.
Can you use an optical dac with the mac mini, or only usb/firewire?
We haven't thought seriously about the Apple TV. I dont think it has the connections we want.
Yes, we have used the HiFace to connect the Mach2 MacMini to DACs with an optical input. Kevin runs this way and it sounds terrific in his set up.
Darrell
-
Can you use an optical dac with the mac mini, or only usb/firewire?
The Mac Mini also has a combination headphone/Mini-Toslink optical output jack on the rear panel.
Steve
-
Darrell,
I also see the value in your product, but I also have roots in the software world :wink: You have to make some money somewhere there.
Are you considering a dual boot option like the Amarra Complete product they showed (since you're a dealer now)? It seems ideal if you already have a Mac.
Any thoughts on how yours would be different from their stripped down OS offering?
Tom
-
Tom,
I hear what you are saying. lol
Mamba suggested this also. We can do it. It would take more install time and a larger SSD drive so the cost would be a little higher. A lot of run headless, so this may make a dual-boot machine less useful. But for some, this may be a viable option.
I haven't seen their stripped OS version yet so I can't make any comparisons.
Darrell
-
I wanted to give the group here an update. We have been quite busy with orders since RMAF and we've gotten to meet some really cool people here. It's been hectic, but rewarding. :thumb:
We got our website updated with a shopping cart and more Questions/Answers. We included a lot of comments/suggestions we got from people here. Thanks for taking the time to provide the constructive feedback.
Feel free to check out the site, buy some stuff, give us some feedback, whatever. It's all good when you deal with such a fine group.
Thanks for your interest in our product.
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
Hi Dave,
Good to hear you're on the mend.
get by your local wall mart and stock up on "Align Digestive Care" in the vitamin section. You get 6 weeks worth for about $40.00 it will help save your system from all that nasty Antibiotic with out having to eat a million calories of yogurt. :nono:
I hooked up with Kevin and ordered a Mach2 mini with 8GB ram and the 1TB external wall powered hard drive. Keven told me he had been playing with Amarra and it was the real thing. So I ordered that too :o
my tranquility has been sitting for 4 weeks. If my Mach2 Mini shows up next week, I am going to have the best Thanksgiving weekend ever :dance: :dance:
-
Hi Dave,
Good to hear you're on the mend.
get by your local wall mart and stock up on "Align Digestive Care" in the vitamin section. You get 6 weeks worth for about $40.00 it will help save your system from all that nasty Antibiotic with out having to eat a million calories of yogurt. :nono:
I hooked up with Kevin and ordered a Mach2 mini with 8GB ram and the 1TB external wall powered hard drive. Keven told me he had been playing with Amarra and it was the real thing. So I ordered that too :o
my tranquility has been sitting for 4 weeks. If my Mach2 Mini shows up next week, I am going to have the best Thanksgiving weekend ever :dance: :dance:
Nick, thanks for the wishes and the advice. I'm gonna get that probiotic and give it a try. A man can only eat so much yogurt and kefir.
I was over at Darrells today and I saw the stack of Mini's. Yours was there and they are working on it. I think you are gonna have a great Thanksgiving.
Get ready to do the happy dance. :banana piano:
Dave
-
Have you looked at the new appleTV? That could save most of the cost of the mac mini if it could made to work.
Can you use an optical dac with the mac mini, or only usb/firewire?
You would perhaps want the old 40GB AppleTV. That one had a HD and a complete (Intel CPU) computer in it, which is hackable to boot an alternate OS. Newer units (that came stock with bigger HD's) are not so hackable; avoid them. The new AppleTV is more like an iPhone; same processor, similar architecture. It does what it's programmed to do, which is fine, but isn't extendable like the old one was.
Personally, I prefer a G4 Mini. The PPC Chip doesn't have the issues with overhead that a pipeline-driven Intel CPU does; it does all instructions Out-Of-Order by design. A cache flush only re-introduces the broken instruction, not a pipeline of instructions, which takes much longer.
[A similar, but illustrative issue can be replicated with video ... a PPC Mac with a processor speed of well under 500 Mhz and a 32MB video card can run 6 or 8 videos simultaneously on the screen, you can change size, move them, etc, on the fly and the video resizes or the window moves in real time while playing, with no audio or video dropouts or hiccups on any of the videos, active or otherwise.
You can alternately run all 8 full screen simultaneously, and command-tab to switch each to the frontmost window, and audio and video sync perfectly and switch instantly without any visible artifacts; if they were all the exact same length and content, and started simultaneously, they end at exactly the same time and you can't find one out of sync with the other. Even now my 2.8 GHz/4 GB Intel machine starts to stutter at 4, and my old 2.0 GHz Core Duo couldn't even do two properly. Those examples are a much greater CPU overhead than playing audio].
When I upgraded my G4 400 Mhz Mac Desktop (1.5GB RAM @ 128 GHz) to an Intel 2.0GHz Core Duo (2.0 GB RAM @ 667 GHz), that's when I began to have issues with dropouts unless stripped to bare functionality.
Multitasking while running audio was never a problem on the G4, although it's been my practice to always, as soon as I install any app, to turn off automatic checking for new versions. That's been my only compromise to reducing overhead in the past with G4 chip machines.
This is consistent with experiences of others I know who do home recording studio setups regarding how Intel machines needed to be very carefully dedicated to audio while PPC machines not so much, but a lot of that was with circa 2000 hardware ... I had assumed the newer 686 Intel-based units had mitigated that.
I found out I was a bit too optimistic on that front.
The PPC chips, which I had run for about five years previously, handled it fine; I never had a problem with continuity or dropout errors processing audio on the G4, even when recording 8-channel 24/96 live. If there was a bottleneck, it was hard drive I/O (I used 10K SCSI disks).
The G4 400 is long retired; I use a 2.8 GHz Intel machine for my daily work. But, for a music server, I bought a used G4/1.5 GHz Mini. Works perfectly with (the maxed out) 1 GB RAM and OS 10.4x. No need to move to 10.5; it actually slows the machine down due to lots of increased, but not useful for the task, feature set. Having said that, even 10.5 didn't produce issues with audio playback or audio file processing on the IBM CPU.
I'm not suggesting that a G4 Mini is the ultimate music server, or that the new Minis, with or without PI's mods, don't offer value to someone interested in a music server, or even that I wished Apple were still using PPC chips, but I have to say with audio and video specifically, it was a downgrade moving to Intel from the PPC chip architecture. Time heals all things, but to tell you the truth I'm surprised that Intel is just catching up, if it even is, with audio processing performance.
Apple had no choice at the time but to move to Intel, and it's arguable that it took the switch to Intel to get Windows users over the mental hump of going to what they didn't know from what they did. The Intel machines work great for all kinds of tasks, and the newest Mini might be great ... I have a 2.53 Mini but use it as a data server/video security system, and it seems to work fine. I haven't tried it for audio (haven't needed to) but it seemed to handle Netflix fine without problems on it's other jobs. In fact, if anything gets me to retire the G4 Mini, it will be net-based video integration with an A/V System.
But to be honest, if you're on a budget, (and why would you be asking about a single function, current version of the AppleTV if you weren't?) a G4 mini and a good USB or FW DAC is a great solution. Just install the OS and iTunes out of the box (10.4 is the typical OEM version), set it up for your DAC, and run her. No need to get into the Terminal and start lowering overhead; it will handle the overhead fine. You can use Firewire or USB (USB 1.1 can handle 24 bit @ <220 KHz sampling rate, based on the 12Mbps maximum data rate; 24/196 is a data rate of 9.216 Mbps. Be sure to have just the audio device on a single dedicated USB bus).
-
Johnny thanks for the post. There is a lot of good info in there pretaining to Apple TV and great audio on a budget.
A couple of things. First, the Mac Mini mods aren't mine by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just blessed to know Darrell and Kevin, they are then ones that have the Minis figured out. Second, when fully optimized for audio, none of the older Minis hold a candle to the 2010. This does not keep the older ones from being used for high quality music servers, they just don't sound as good as a fully optimized 2010.
Dave
-
The 2010 models do sound better than the previous models out of the box, but we have upgraded a few 2009 models, and they ROCKED!!!
If someone is buying a MacMini, I recommend a 2010 model, but a modded 2009 is a fantastic music server. I was shocked at how good the 2009 models we worked on sounded. :thumb:
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
Do you do the same mods to the 2009 models or something different?
-
We do the same software mods and hardware upgrades. Our software mods will work on Mac Minis that run Snow Leopard (OSX 10.6). :thumb:
I was thrilled with how well the Mach2 mods made the 2009 models sound.
Darrell
-
We do the same software mods and hardware upgrades. Our software mods will work on Mac Minis that run Snow Leopard (OSX 10.6). :thumb:
I was thrilled with how well the Mach2 mods made the 2009 models sound.
Darrell
Would I still have internet access? I need it for the artwork and track info. Cost?
-
Has anyone experimented with pulling the music files off of the home network as opposed to using a firewire drive? If so, what was the impact on the sound?
-
Would I still have internet access? I need it for the artwork and track info. Cost?
Jason,
Yes, Internet access works fine, wireless or wired. We use the internet to stream music with Pandora.
Price will depend on weather you already had a Solid State Drive, and 4GB or more or RAM.
If you already have the SSD and 4-8GB of RAM, the software only mods are $395.
If you don't have the SSD and RAM, please e-mail me at info@mach2music.com with info about your setup, and I will get you a quote.
Darrell
-
I am not good with a computer. If it dont have gears what good is it. Anyway I have spend as much as 6000.00 on a good "CD" player alone and I was floored when I heard what Darrel, Kevin and Dave where doing with the mac mini that cost less than my girlfriend on a saturday night. RMAF turned many heads of people who refused to believe that the MAC SANDWICH PACKAGE was sounding so $^#@((* delicious. And for us gear heads its easy to use and all I have to know is its magic.
By the way I have a cd player for sale cheap.
Igor
-
A guy, username Mintzar, who builds and sells linear PSUs, posted this on CA:
"If you haven't purchased a Mac Mini yet, then I'd look for a 2009 Mac Mini on Ebay. The '09 mac mini with my power supply is CONSIDERABLY better than the 2010 Mac Mini. I did a demo for a gentleman last weekend comparing the 2010 Mini to an '09 mini with my low-end power supply and it wasn't even a contest. He was using the Tranquility DAC, which I don't especially care for to begin with, but it was a night and day difference between the two.”
See:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Mac-Mini-power-supply?page=2
-
Johnny thanks for the post. There is a lot of good info in there pretaining to Apple TV and great audio on a budget.
A couple of things. First, the Mac Mini mods aren't mine by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just blessed to know Darrell and Kevin, they are then ones that have the Minis figured out. Second, when fully optimized for audio, none of the older Minis hold a candle to the 2010. This does not keep the older ones from being used for high quality music servers, they just don't sound as good as a fully optimized 2010.
Dave
You have to be willing to use an external USB DAC with the G4 Mini for best sound quality. Although my experience suggests the CPU works very well, the standard audio-out is not particularly remarkable in the G4 versions, although it's better than something like, say, a Creative Sound Blaster card, most of which resample everything, including 44.1 CDs, to 48 Khz.
Some people on a strict budget may start with the G4 and save for an appropriate DAC; you can, for example, get the full 16 bits of resolution from a CD in 24 bit analog out mode with a G4 Mini (a 16-bit sound card usually delivers perhaps 13 bits of resolution). That's really the only other situation where it would be most useful.
-
You have to be willing to use an external USB DAC with the G4 Mini for best sound quality.
That's exactly what Dave is talking about: the old G4 Mini vs. the current model using a high-quality USB DAC. He's saying the old G4 Mini does not sound as good. The processor is only a small part of the story, and if you're using the Mini as a dedicated music server the processor differences that you describe above are not going to govern the overall sound quality since the processor is only doing one thing.
-
That's exactly what Dave is talking about: the old G4 Mini vs. the current model using a high-quality USB DAC. He's saying the old G4 Mini does not sound as good. The processor is only a small part of the story, and if you're using the Mini as a dedicated music server the processor differences that you describe above are not going to govern the overall sound quality since the processor is only doing one thing.
The differences between the two units is not great, but there are differences. Kevin and Darrell work on all iterations of the Mini and they can all sound terriffic. The biggest difference is the 2010 responds very well to power cable tweaks. The older brick has limitations that the new integrated PS does not from the standpoint of tweaking power. Computers are just like every other piece of audio gear in that incoming power is what drives the audio quality. The efficiency of the new processor layout is another reason that the 2010 sounds so good. Dan's reference to the response of the G4 to a linear power supply is a very good recommendation. Bolder's supply is another way to improve the sound of an older Mini.
The whole computer based audio system revolution is a boon to quality audio whose time has come. It is awesome to hear the quality that is easily accessible and affordable that (gasp!) rivals vinyl in listenability. Now is a great time to be an audiophool.
Dave
-
Bolder's supply is another way to improve the sound of an older Mini.
Dave
So you're saying that the Bolder supply would be better than just plugging the '09 Mini into a Majik, Uber or MuthaBuss?
-
So you're saying that the Bolder supply would be better than just plugging the '09 Mini into a Majik, Uber or MuthaBuss?
I'm all about linear power supplies for computers, especially ones for audio. Some years ago a couple of us here in Albuquerque put our heads together and built a linear power supply for a MAC that was running a full blown ProTools Core 6. The difference in audio quality was amazing. The glassy, cold high frequencies and the bass were the areas of the greatest improvement, but everything was better and sounded less digital.
All of that to say: The best deal would be a linear power supply powered by a BUSS. Part of the problem with the brick is the power cable that comes out of the power supply to the Mini. It is a long antenna for the RF generated by the brick as well as the RF imprinted on the power from the brick.
I just snapped! THIS is the topic that started our friendship. It is a trip into the wayback machine for me. Cool. 8)
I'm still thinking that battery power for the older Minis is the way to go, though. I have been told that the only reason the older Mini needed 18.5V was for the screen display and the brians would run on 12V all day long. I have not been able to verify this. If so, it would be a no-brainer to hook up to a battery/charger combo like we have for our Dodd gear.
Are you thinking about Mach2 doing their mods on your Mini?
Dave
-
If a linear supply is the way to go with a buss then why not do that? I'm pretty sure I got the Buss part. :scratch:
Get to it! :whip:
Mini mods? **thinking**
-
Just a quick update from Mach2 Music... We have a new and improved website up.
We have been filling orders, listening to customers, and listening to various hardware and software options. As a result we learned some things and we have updated our website with some new options, and more information.
We want to provide the best sound possible at a reasonable price point. Thank you all for your support and feedback thusfar. It helps us put out a better Mach2 for all to enjoy.
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
Darrell,
The new website looks great. What is your opinion about differences in overall sound using the mini networked via a wireless router connection vs. wired?
Phil
-
Phil,
Thanks for the feedback on the website. I have been working to add more info as I get time between orders.
We hear a subtle difference with the wifi turned on. If you can easily run a wired Ethernet to your Mac, that would be best, but the difference is subtle enough that most of us just go ahead and use the wifi.
When I use Wifi, I turn off the Ethernet port. Either way you have to have a connection on, but the wired ethernet is quieter.
Having network access is really cool with the Mach2. I can control it via a Mac, PC, iPhone, iTouch, iPad, and my Driod Phone.
I am having the best time controlling Amarra from my driod phone. I thought it would be a pain from the little screen, but in fact, the Interface is easy and quick.
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
I just got a stock model Mac Mini a few days ago. Running it into a Wyred4Sound Dac-1 via USB. So far everything is working great. Running headless using 'Screen Sharing' from my MacBook. Currently using Fidelia as my software of choice.
Here's my question. I was planning on dropping some more memory in it relatively soon and take it up to 4g or 8g of RAM. Besides that expenditure, I have about $300 more I can put into it in the short term. What is the best place to start? Try and get a Mach2Mac software upgrade? PI Audio power cord? MacSandwich? SS internal drive? I can always do more down the line but trying to get the most bang for the buck in the near future.
BTW, I do have a Majik Buss in the chain and running my music library on an external HDD attached to Mini.
Thanks!
Mike
-
I just got a stock model Mac Mini a few days ago. Running it into a Wyred4Sound Dac-1 via USB. So far everything is working great. Running headless using 'Screen Sharing' from my MacBook. Currently using Fidelia as my software of choice.
Here's my question. I was planning on dropping some more memory in it relatively soon and take it up to 4g or 8g of RAM. Besides that expenditure, I have about $300 more I can put into it in the short term. What is the best place to start? Try and get a Mach2Mac software upgrade? PI Audio power cord? MacSandwich? SS internal drive? I can always do more down the line but trying to get the most bang for the buck in the near future.
BTW, I do have a Majik Buss in the chain and running my music library on an external HDD attached to Mini.
Thanks!
Mike
Mike, this is a toughie, but I'll take a swing. :scratch:
The best thing you can do is the Mach2 mod, but there is a kicker here. IMO one of the integral parts of the Mach2 "sound" is the internal HDD. This makes their work on your Mini a bit pricier. Perhaps Darrell will weigh in on this and give you some guidance. It really is worth it, though. They have just recently added Fidelia as a supported music player.
Of the two: the MacSandwich and the MPC/Mini power cable, the one to do first is the power cable. It provides the sonic foundation that the MacSandwich will build upon later.
Here is my bottom line, I would go for the items in this order - Mach2, MPC/Mini, MacSandwich. With this in mind and if your budget is fixed at ~ $300, the MPC/Mini is the way to go.
Any other opinions from Mach2 owners (and others) are welcome here, please.
Dave
-
SSD first
-
Mike,
I agree with Dave, this is a tough one, and as usual, Dave has given terific advise.
All the mods Dave listed improve the sound. We consider the Mach2 upgrade the basis for all other upgrades. By replacing the internal hard drive with an SSD, and doing our numerous software mods, the MacMini is taken to another level. This allows all other mods to be be heard even more.
But, this isn't necessary of course. There are many ways to great sound. :thumb: The MacSandwich and MPC/Mini power cord will help any MacMini, in a great way. Both of these are within your $300 range. I like both products tremendously and had to think which I would get first if I were in your shoes.
The MacSandwich lowers the noise floor a little and provided a wider and deeper soundstage in my system. The soundstage improvement was not subtle.
The MPC/Mini in my system, lowered the noise floor noticeably so things sounded cleaner, there was better seperation between instruments, and the soundstage was improved a bit.
Not knowing your system, but seeing what the two products did in my system, I would agree with Dave and recommend the MPC/Mini power cord. Its a great upgrade. :banana piano:
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
P.S. A point of clarification... We now provide a script for Fidelia as a bonus for our users. Our customers can e-mail us for the script, if they use Fidelia and want to make it sound better. We also have them for Audirvana, Decibel, and of course for the Apps in our build (iTunes, Play, Pandora), and the ones we sell (Amarra, and Pure Music).
But, we don't provide support for Fidelia/Audirvana/Decibel (i.e. don't ask us questions about them). They are not apps we include in the Mach2 Setup.
-
Hi All,
Just to throw it out there-
I went from a MacBook to a Mac Mini, and the sound improved dramatically. I am thinking this is because the screen isn't attached to the computer. I still have a 40" LCD monitor attached to the Mini as we use it for TV and movies (Hulu and Netfix.) The built in DVD player has also become our default DVD player, rendering our Philips model redundant.
We have a 2010 Mini, and I have upgraded the RAM to 8GB. I am thinking of changing the 320GB internal hard drive out, but have looked at the process on You Tube videos, and while the videos are clear, I am still somewhat apprehensive. Assuming that I bite the bullet and upgrade the hard drive, the next logical step would be the Mach2 setup.
But here's the catch, I have personal info on my hard drives (financial, etc.) and would not want to send the Mini out of the house. Now if Mach2 were to offer a DIY alternative (like sell a Disk Image of the setup) for those of us who are comfortable installing the software on our own, that would be very cool.
Just a thought.
-
Nels,
Yeah, it would be nice if we could get someone else to do our work. LOL DIY... But it wouldn't work in your situation. We wipe the drive and load the OSX fresh. This way we don't have crap from previous versions.
We do recommend that people use their Mach2 just for music. As people load other business, photography, Instant Messengers, applications, process get kicked up in the background. All sorts of process run that don't have to do with music playback. This works against our music optimization.
So, if you were to have us turn you Mac into a Mach2Music server, we would ask you to remove your data before you send us the machine. We would then wipe the disk and turn it into a Mach Music server.
I hope this expalins our approach a bit.
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
Hi All,
Just to throw it out there-
I went from a MacBook to a Mac Mini, and the sound improved dramatically. I am thinking this is because the screen isn't attached to the computer. I still have a 40" LCD monitor attached to the Mini as we use it for TV and movies (Hulu and Netfix.) The built in DVD player has also become our default DVD player, rendering our Philips model redundant.
We have a 2010 Mini, and I have upgraded the RAM to 8GB. I am thinking of changing the 320GB internal hard drive out, but have looked at the process on You Tube videos, and while the videos are clear, I am still somewhat apprehensive. Assuming that I bite the bullet and upgrade the hard drive, the next logical step would be the Mach2 setup.
But here's the catch, I have personal info on my hard drives (financial, etc.) and would not want to send the Mini out of the house. Now if Mach2 were to offer a DIY alternative (like sell a Disk Image of the setup) for those of us who are comfortable installing the software on our own, that would be very cool.
Just a thought.
Nels, a few thoughts.
Changing the hard drives out in a 2010 Mac Mini is not for the faint of heart, like you said. It is not at all like the older Minis. The first 1/4" is the most critical. If you screw up there it is a VERY costly mistake. Like the guys at Mach2 say: there are a lot of machines that are FUBAR because the owners thought they could just tear into their Minis. The SSD is a very good improvement, but I'll let others do that one for me. :wink:
Another thing that wasn't mentioned is the source drive for the data. Make sure to use a HDD enclosure with the Oxford 934 or 936 chipset. They sound the best, so far. Use a good Firewire cable, too.
Here is the deal on the image file from someone that is not involved in Mach2's business. I am speaking from experience here. Intellectual property is worth a lot or nothing depending upon who you talk to. I know that Darrell has hundreds upon hundreds of hours invested in the software that is the core of the Mach2 modifications. All it would take is one inconsiderate, unethical SOB with no regard to the work involved or the fact that this is another person's income to rip it off, post it on a torrent site and that would be that. No support, no upgrades, no worries :nono: People that think that everything should be in the public domain should get a clue.
Who is John Galt?
Your MacSandwich and MPC/Mini power cable go out tomorrow. Gayle is doing better, the granchildren are home with Mom and I have a huge backlog of things to get out, so I'm off to the shop.
Dave
-
Dave,
You are right. I had not thought if torrent sites. I'd like to think no one on the audio community would actually post a disk image, but Darrell has to protect himself. I hereby withdraw my original idea. Not a good idea after all.
I was already aware of the chipset issue. I need to get a new case for my main hard drive (WD Elements 1.5 TB USB) and move the drive into the case. That will get the drive off of the USB Bus which is where my DAC is connected with a M2Tech Hi Face.
Looking forward to the Sandwich and Cable. I guess I'll be contacting Darrell sometime in the future.
Any recommendations on firewire cases?
-
Hi Nels,
Many people who are into the Mac Mini audio server plan, including me, are really high on the Oyen Digital drives (http://oyendigital.com/2.5-portable-hard-drives.html). I use a MiniPro with a firewire interface. Oyen's technical support guy is quite knowledgeable and friendly, plus he even knows about us audiophile types and what we are up to. Several of the DAW workstation companies also recommend Oyen drives. Lastly, and as you already know, never underestimate the importance of the USB cable to the DAC... seriously!
Happy Listening!
-
Here is the deal on the image file from someone that is not involved in Mach2's business. I am speaking from experience here. Intellectual property is worth a lot or nothing depending upon who you talk to. I know that Darrell has hundreds upon hundreds of hours invested in the software that is the core of the Mach2 modifications. Dave
That's why EVERY piece of software that I use during the day is dongle protected.
-
Hi Nels,
Many people who are into the Mac Mini audio server plan, including me, are really high on the Oyen Digital drives (http://oyendigital.com/2.5-portable-hard-drives.html). I use a MiniPro with a firewire interface. Oyen's technical support guy is quite knowledgeable and friendly, plus he even knows about us audiophile types and what we are up to. Several of the DAW workstation companies also recommend Oyen drives. Lastly, and as you already know, never underestimate the importance of the USB cable to the DAC... seriously!
Happy Listening!
Seriously! +1
Dave
-
That's why EVERY piece of software that I use during the day is dongle protected.
:thumb:
I bet!
Dave
-
Thanks everyone for your input so far on how to spend $300. :thumb: This money comes from me selling my turntable that I just replaced (which by the way my new table is flippin' sweet).
So I got a little bit of time to research some more and think about it. Based on some of the comments, I am tempted to send my mini to the fellers at Mach2 for upgrades and then work with Dave on some of his solutions after that. My goal is to tweak my mini for all it is worth and Dave has not steered me wrong yet. So I'm tempted to hold on to my $300 and wait until I can add some more to it but we'll see. I think getting the software upgrade would be easy for me. I have basically no data on the computer other than a Fidelia download plus a bit of registration info for Apple. I was tempted to set up a video server on it as well but honestly, just not sure I see a point in bothering with this as I just don't mess with that stuff enough. So thinking it will just remain an audio machine.
Thanks again everyone and if you have anything else to add, please do. Nothing is ever solidified with me until it is done. :D
-
Thanks everyone for your input so far on how to spend $300. :thumb: This money comes from me selling my turntable that I just replaced (which by the way my new table is flippin' sweet).
So I got a little bit of time to research some more and think about it. Based on some of the comments, I am tempted to send my mini to the fellers at Mach2 for upgrades and then work with Dave on some of his solutions after that. My goal is to tweak my mini for all it is worth and Dave has not steered me wrong yet. So I'm tempted to hold on to my $300 and wait until I can add some more to it but we'll see. I think getting the software upgrade would be easy for me. I have basically no data on the computer other than a Fidelia download plus a bit of registration info for Apple. I was tempted to set up a video server on it as well but honestly, just not sure I see a point in bothering with this as I just don't mess with that stuff enough. So thinking it will just remain an audio machine.
Thanks again everyone and if you have anything else to add, please do. Nothing is ever solidified with me until it is done. :D
Thanks, I do my best to be a straight shooter. Self aggrandizement is not a good thing IMO.
I think that doing the Mach2 server is the best thing that you can do. It will be the lilly that you will gild later.
A year ago when I started thinking about all of this due to my friendship with jtwrace I had no idea where it would all end. Jason is responsible for me thinking about going to a computer based system. I was basically happy with my Cary 306 CD player, but was looking for greater convenience. Hence my foray into server based music.
I started out by buying an M-audio 24/96 soundcard and thought that it didn't sound half bad on my Dell XPS that I use for my business. I bought all of the pieces and parts to put together a dedicated, stripped barebones XP based Zotac Ion mini ITX format computer strictly for music. Even with the onboard sound hardware/software it sounded as good, if not better than my Cary. I sold my Cary, Darrell got interested along with Kevin and George Chronis (cabling for interconnections) and we started down the road of building great sounding computer based systems for ourselves. One thing led to another and here we are today.
Kevin, Darrell and George along with Eric Hider convinced me that the Mac Mini, in particular the 2010 is vastly superior to a PC. It is just so. We've been listening to DACs, computer platforms, music players, blah, blah, blah for the better part of a year and doing our level best to work as a team - a skunkworks, if you will - to develop THE BEST digital playback that we can that is within reach of we, the people, not "them", the zillionaires out there. I am very proud what a few very dedicated have accomplished in a short period of time.
If you go to AXPONA, look us up. We will knock your socks off, I promise.
Thanks, jtwrace, you trouble maker, you. :thumb:
Dave
-
:thumb:
I bet!
Dave
My point is that it's very easy and inexpensive to do so I don't know why he doesn't do it.
-
...Another thing that wasn't mentioned is the source drive for the data. Make sure to use a HDD enclosure with the Oxford 934 or 936 chipset. They sound the best, so far. Use a good Firewire cable, too.
Dave
Not to get off topic, but what would be a good firewire cable to use? I'm using an Oyen drive with my 2010 Mini and use the FW800 cable that was provided with the unit.
Thanks,
Doug
-
My point is that it's very easy and inexpensive to do so I don't know why he doesn't do it.
Dunno. That is a good question.
Dave
-
Not to get off topic, but what would be a good firewire cable to use? I'm using an Oyen drive with my 2010 Mini and use the FW800 cable that was provided with the unit.
Thanks,
Doug
Doug,
If you power your drive from the wall, then our MBS Firewire would be an excellent choice. It is a good cable, with good shielding, and it has the power lead cut so power does not flow through the cable with the audio signal. See the link below for more info.
http://www.mach2music.com/order/mbs-firewire.html (http://www.mach2music.com/order/mbs-firewire.html)
Its a big sound improvement over the stock solution. :thumb:
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
You really think there is a difference in sonics with a FW cable coming from the external drive to the Mini?
-
You really think there is a difference in sonics with a FW cable coming from the external drive to the Mini?
Absolutely, no doubt. We have tested various Firewire cables. Some of the differences where slight, and some very noticeable. The one's with the power lead cut generally sounded the best since the power signal and audio signal were seperated.
-
Absolutely, no doubt. We have tested various Firewire cables. Some of the differences where slight, and some very noticeable. The one's with the power lead cut generally sounded the best since the power signal and audio signal were seperated.
Does this mean that the data is saved on the HD better then?
-
Does this mean that the data is saved on the HD better then?
Some on the net think so, but I don't. You end up with the same file and checksum. I speculate that the firewire cables affect playback because they vary the electrical noise and the noise signature between the hard drive and the computer.
I was shocked that Firewire cable would make a difference, but the listening test results were obvious.
-
You really think there is a difference in sonics with a FW cable coming from the external drive to the Mini?
There is no doubt. This is one of those places where we HAVE to let what we are hearing override our common sense and the math.
I know that you are a cable skeptic, just as Darrell and I both were (years apart in our discovery) until it became obvious that there are differences that a simple LCR construct does not allow. Our math is just not complete in this arena.
This is one of those audio holy wars that has stirred endless debate and will continue to do so. Difference is that the "believers" have (in general terms) taken the time to do the heavy lifting and listen instead of just "thinking" th,at cable differences are snake oil. I know. I was a die hard subjectivist until it finally occurred to me that all of the people couldn't be wrong, crazy, gullible or stupid. Humility comes at a price sometimes. Man I hated being wrong.
The USB cable is an integral part of the overall sonic signature. Why? All I have is theories and conjecture. Certainly there is an LCR sweet spot that is necessary for good sound. Thing is when you build 5 different cables all within 2 percent of the target and they sound wildly different something else is going on. Part of it is EMI and RFI rejection. Digital just doesn't like ANY noise for stellar reproduction.
If I had the time to sit down and do a lot of testing, measurements and investigation, I probably would, but the fact is that this is one area that my ears are the final arbiter. Besides I am so far behind right now that I simply don't have the time to waste precious time on something so obvious in application.
As in all things audio: YMMV...
Dave
-
Absolutely, no doubt. We have tested various Firewire cables. Some of the differences where slight, and some very noticeable. The one's with the power lead cut generally sounded the best since the power signal and audio signal were seperated.
Darrell,
When using a MBS Firewire cable/external drive does the SQ come close or better than music coming directly off the SSD.
So far the SQ I am getting off the SSD I prefer over my MiniPro 800/400, I’m using a linear power supply on both Mac Mini/MiniPro.
-Pete
-
Pete,
The sound quality when using the MBS Firewire cable and a Hard drive using the Oxford chipset is very good. Playing music off the internal SSD is better though. Of course the downside is that you can only fit a small library (by today's standards) on an internal SSD.
Some of our customers use the MBS firewire cable with an External SSD drive. This sound is almost exactly like the internal SSD (in my testing).
Darrell
www.mach2music.com
-
I understand we have a fire_wire "end-all" from "Signature" land
-
Has it been A/B'd against the MBS Firewire? You can't claim its an "end all" until it beats the MBS. :thumb:
-
We'll have to wait.....benchmarks change all the time, it's the nature of the business.
-
Another thing that wasn't mentioned is the source drive for the data. Make sure to use a HDD enclosure with the Oxford 934 or 936 chipset. They sound the best, so far. Use a good Firewire cable, too.
Dave
[/quote]
Well, Dave, I gambled and won. :thumb: I got to thinking about my hard drive situation and it started bugging me. I have been a happy Western Digital drive user for years and have recommended the Elements series USB drives unconditionally.
I tend to recycle drives into my Drobo (one of my backup solutions) when I upgrade to a bigger size drive. I didn't need to upgrade the drive size (1.5TB) so I looked around at FireWire 800 enclosures. I threw the dice on a Sans Digital Single Bay Towerstor. It arrived today, and I moved my drive from the USB enclosure to the new FireWire enclosure. When I was doing that, I checked the chipset, as I couldn't find that info online. It has the Oxford 936. :banana piano: Not bad for $69.99.
Oops, looks like the price went back up to $79.99 since I ordered:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5705539&SRCCODE=WEBLET03ORDER&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03ORDER-_-Deals (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5705539&SRCCODE=WEBLET03ORDER&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03ORDER-_-Deals)
I've only just started litening, but damn if its not better.
I guess I need a "good" FireWire cable now. 8)
Thanks for the heads up!
-
Another thing that wasn't mentioned is the source drive for the data. Make sure to use a HDD enclosure with the Oxford 934 or 936 chipset. They sound the best, so far. Use a good Firewire cable, too.
Dave
Well, Dave, I gambled and won. :thumb: I got to thinking about my hard drive situation and it started bugging me. I have been a happy Western Digital drive user for years and have recommended the Elements series USB drives unconditionally.
I tend to recycle drives into my Drobo (one of my backup solutions) when I upgrade to a bigger size drive. I didn't need to upgrade the drive size (1.5TB) so I looked around at FireWire 800 enclosures. I threw the dice on a Sans Digital Single Bay Towerstor. It arrived today, and I moved my drive from the USB enclosure to the new FireWire enclosure. When I was doing that, I checked the chipset, as I couldn't find that info online. It has the Oxford 936. :banana piano: Not bad for $69.99.
Oops, looks like the price went back up to $79.99 since I ordered:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5705539&SRCCODE=WEBLET03ORDER&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03ORDER-_-Deals (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5705539&SRCCODE=WEBLET03ORDER&cm_mmc=Email-_-WebletMain-_-WEBLET03ORDER-_-Deals)
I've only just started litening, but damn if its not better.
I guess I need a "good" FireWire cable now. 8)
Thanks for the heads up!
The Oxford chipset thing came from Eric Hider. I'm just passing along good info when I can. The Firewire cable is darned important. The best one that I have heard is the MSB cable form Chronos Music available from Mach2. Things are changing fast, though. I thought things sounded really good 6 months ago, too........... :o
Dave
-
This thread has gone dry and I don't see anyone discussing the attributes of HD and USB sourced audio, as initiated here. I see nothing being discussed openly from Mach2 or dB Audio. Hopefully they haven't buried themselves at Facebook. :argue:
-
This thread has gone dry and I don't see anyone discussing the attributes of HD and USB sourced audio, as initiated here. I see nothing being discussed openly from Mach2 or dB Audio. Hopefully they haven't buried themselves at Facebook. :argue:
Dave, Mach2 has been slammed with orders and has the new 2011 Mini rolling out the doors. The battery powered version is amazing in its' transparency and resolution. Smooooooooooth..................., too.
Eric - dB Audio Labs has a new hi-rez DAC just about ready to bring to market. It got very good reviews at RMAF. There are some other things happening, too. Just stay tooned for a bit longer and all will be revealed.
Dave
-
This thread has gone dry and I don't see anyone discussing the attributes of HD and USB sourced audio, as initiated here. I see nothing being discussed openly from Mach2 or dB Audio. Hopefully they haven't buried themselves at Facebook. :argue:
Taser,
Buried in Facebook? Hell No! :evil:
As Dave mentioned, we have been quite busy because of the release of the 2011 Mach2 Music servers, and from the terrific feedback from RMAF. http://www.avguide.com/blog/rmaf-2011-report-digital?page=2 (http://www.avguide.com/blog/rmaf-2011-report-digital?page=2) We were in 3 of the 4 rooms Steven Stone listed out as Best of Show.
Today is the first time in a couple weeks that I had a few minutes to drop in and say Hello. So, HELLO AUDIOCIRCLE!!!! :thumb:
I hope your system is Rockin Taser.
Darrell
Mach2 Music