AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 14 Sep 2018, 08:29 pm
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Just letting people know that these are still in the works. been poking away at a contoured base and discussing composites.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184429)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184426)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184427)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184428)
jay
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Tease!!!!
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Very cool Jay! Is there a technical reason the base needs to add that height?
Thanks,
Ed
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:o :o :o :o :o
:thumb:
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Very cool Jay! Is there a technical reason the base needs to add that height?
Thanks,
Ed
They do lift the array up a bit but not as much as you may think.. those bases are only 5.5 " tall..
Was really just trying to keep them similarin height to the orignal pair but "fit" the speaker cabinet a bit better IMHO . Each will have to be milled from a solid block of composite.
jay
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Why not a simple T outrigger, and some spikes?
**I cannot visualize as well as CAd
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Jay:
If you are concerned with baffle stiffness why not double up the thickness with a baffle sandwich.
Add a front panel, mirror image of your current design (minus the terminal cut outs) would leave a nice clean finished look.
Rubber sheet gasket in between the two layers and you may not need the slight driver recess.
Choose the gasket material correctly and you may not even need the 100 driver mounting screws.
Twenty bolts from the backside should hold the panels together and keep the that nice clean look.
Shawn
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All good on the baffle , no worries
jay
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Any updates on this one??
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A pair is inthe "que" now
jay
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Wow. Drivers and cross over by Danny?
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Yes, it'll be a combination effort. We'll finish the cabinets up here and ship down to Danny for final asembly before heading out to their new home .
jay
jay
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:popcorn:
Great to hear they're still moving forward. You mentioned "Composite" in the original post. Any decisions or details?
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Yes, they will be a composite, similar in density to MDF (approx 75gr/cc).
I sent Danny a sample Neo3/Neo10 baffle made from a similar (not quite as dense) product.
Excellent machineability
Low dust emission
No shrinkage / Dimensionally Stable
Low moisture absorption
No grain
Excellent surface finish
jay
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Yes, it'll be a combination effort. We'll finish the cabinets up here and ship down to Danny for final asembly before heading out to their new home .
jay
jay
Does this mean that the Line Force will not be sold as a DIY project but only as a complete speaker?
Thanks,
Ed
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hey Ed
No, I think we'll offer the flat packs as well. the composite is expensive as is machining those bases... not to mention building custom boxes/crates for each pair. Still chaaper than the aluminum pair Danny originally had cut.
Waiting onthe composite for the first pair to be cut.. hopefully soon
jay
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This is pretty exciting news. I'm one of the lucky few that got to hear those original prototypes, and holy momma are they incredible. I thought that the Serenity 7's had a slight edge on my LS9's years ago, but the with those all BG drivers in the prototype there was really no comparison. The were just sooooo fast. And they were helped along by a gaggle of servo subs.
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hey Ed
No, I think we'll offer the flat packs as well. the composite is expensive as is machining those bases... not to mention building custom boxes/crates for each pair. Still chaaper than the aluminum pair Danny originally had cut.
Waiting onthe composite for the first pair to be cut.. hopefully soon
jay
Thanks Jay. I am toying with the idea of going with the Super-7 then possibly upgrading to the LF, but reusing the drivers purchased for the Super-7.
Best,
Ed
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Hey Jay. Any updates on these babies?
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Yup, composite is in for the first pair as wellas some stock for a 2nd pair, hopefully cutting that first pair next week .
I know it's ben slow but the compostie took longer than expected to arrive. hopefully things progress quickly now
jay
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What does Danny have to say about the material ? Is it a good replacement for aluminum?
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I wouldn't have gone with it without having him check it out. Sent him a sample baffle ages ago.
jay
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And what does he say?
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And what does he say?
I think the composite material is going to work out really well. It appears to be very strong and it is much less expensive than sheets of Aluminum.
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Do you anticipate any issues with shape retention considering how tall they are ? Do you recommend any type of external bracing!!
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Will the material take a finish or is it more along the line of a corian type material?
Best,
Ed
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No problem anticipated with shape/stability etc. When this stuff is bonded, it becomes one solid piece and the seam will never show once it's been sanded smooth.
Yes, it can be primed/painted etc.
You can even throw it in the tub and give it a bath if you like, it won't change shape
jay
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189916)
more soon
jay
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You can even throw it in the tub and give it a bath if you like, it won't change shape
jay
That's good to know. I can't tell you the times I've wished for such. Will it be dishwasher safe?
Kidding aside, this is really looking to be something special!
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LOL, you bet Peter, just need a big dishwasher !!
They will be cool
jay
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Man if I had the space (and funds lol) for a pair of these and a pair of H-Frame towers. Alas, I'll just slum it with a pair of Super 7s.
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Glad to see these coming back! :D
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Here are a couple updated pics.
A few drivers in a small MDF test baffle we cut. Full baffles and wings to be cut next week.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190206)
Finished base
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190207)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190208)
The 5 bolt holes in each base are counter bored from underside so bolts will be out of sight
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190209)
jay
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Should be the only speaker around that convincingly outclasses the Super 7s. Me jealous!
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Should be the only speaker around that convincingly outclasses the Super 7s. Me jealous!
Don't listen to a pair!!! I was perfectly happy with my LS9s until I heard those prototypes. And the LS9's, when installed well, are comparable to the Super7s (different, some ways better, some worse). But those Super LS speakers... I never heard anything at a RMAF that were close. High end Wilson or TADs? Not comparable.
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To late for me!!! :o
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Suppose I should start saving now. After I heard the Epiphany 20/21 in my room, I knew line source was in a different league than point source. Couldn’t balance the big LS 9’s in there though. Just too much bass for my room.
These should really be stunning. Time to sell the BG FS420’s.
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Hi Captainhemo,
Those Line Force speakers look very interesting indeed! Could you please say a bit more about these?
* How far down in frequency are they working?
* Sensitivity?
Thanks! Best regards
Peter
Just letting people know that these are still in the works. been poking away at a contoured base and discussing composites.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184429)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184426)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184427)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184428)
jay
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Hi Captainhemo,
Those Line Force speakers look very interesting indeed! Could you please say a bit more about these?
* How far down in frequency are they working?
* Sensitivity?
Thanks! Best regards
Peter
These cross to the servo subs at 180Hz. And sensitivity is 98db.
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Hi Danny,
Thanks a lot!
Best regards
Peter
These cross to the servo subs at 180Hz. And sensitivity is 98db.
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:D all these "super" creations are pulling at my not so 'super' bank account . I'll be super broke , super hungry and of course SUPER COLD here in Canada,,,,ha.
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Since many are drooling over these, curious how many preorders would be needed to get a bulk shipment of neo3's... would that be on the order of a thousand (tweeters) of them or 10k? Maybe customs hassle just aren't worth it.
seems there is a place called audiopur making them available in bulk - not sure if they're knockoffs, or licensed.
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Since many are drooling over these, curious how many preorders would be needed to get a bulk shipment of neo3's... would that be on the order of a thousand (tweeters) of them or 10k? Maybe customs hassle just aren't worth it.
seems there is a place called audiopur making them available in bulk - not sure if they're knockoffs, or licensed.
Our Neo 3's are very unique. The design doesn't really work without them.
And I can send them to you in bulk. I had 1,000 of them made.
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this first pair come out really nice. time to get them off to paint
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191228)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191229)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191230)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191231)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191232)
jay
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Looks great Jay! :D
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Wow, those look great Jay :thumb:!
Best,
Ed
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Man, they just dwarf the NX-Ottica.
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Man, they just dwarf the NX-Ottica.
Yeah, I feel bad for them...you should probably find them a new home down here in North Carolina :D
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Yeah, I feel bad for them...you should probably find them a new home down here in North Carolina :D
I'll let you know if the current interested person doesn't pull the trigger on the Otica's.
Those Line force's unfortunately aren't staying either, they are a preordered pair
jay
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Nice. Capt will you be putting them together ?
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No
Tset will be painted then crated and shipped off to Danny for final assembly, no point shipping everything up here then back down again for the customer. Won't even get to hear them :(
jay
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Wanted to know more about how they sounded with pair of OB servo subs.
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The original Line Force speakers at Danny's had two 3x12" OB servo subs.
Amazing is the only term I can use after hearing them almost 4 years ago.
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2x3x12 would be awesome for sure.
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this first pair come out really nice. time to get them off to paint
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191228)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191229)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191230)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191231)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191232)
jay
Stunning CNC work! I’ve been following all of this along with the rest of your products. Having gotten a pair of the Wedgies (which were flawless in manufacture and fitment) was a physical game changer for me... I get older... sigh...
I am in awe of you two in having the balls to bring unbelievably high quality kits to a bunch of hackers like most of us are!!! :wave:
Once again: you guys rock! Jay... thank you.
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hey Ed
No, I think we'll offer the flat packs as well. the composite is expensive as is machining those bases... not to mention building custom boxes/crates for each pair. Still chaaper than the aluminum pair Danny originally had cut.
Waiting onthe composite for the first pair to be cut.. hopefully soon
jay
Is it still the plan to offer these as flat packs? Presumably with the right adhesive it would be fairly straightforward to fix the wing to the baffle and then glue those to the base?
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Wanted to know more about how they sounded with pair of OB servo subs.
that's what they were designed to be paired with :thumb:
Stunning CNC work! I’ve been following all of this along with the rest of your products. Having gotten a pair of the Wedgies (which were flawless in manufacture and fitment) was a physical game changer for me... I get older... sigh...
I am in awe of you two in having the balls to bring unbelievably high quality kits to a bunch of hackers like most of us are!!! :wave:
Once again: you guys rock! Jay... thank you.
Thanks Wade, your comments are much appreciated. Quite a bit of time and effort goes into most of these kits.
Is it still the plan to offer these as flat packs? Presumably with the right adhesive it would be fairly straightforward to fix the wing to the baffle and then glue those to the base?
Yes, flat packs are available but there is lead time, especially if we need to order the composite. It's expensive and can't stock a ton of it. The good part is all the modeling, programming, test cuts etc are out of the way, so it's just amtter of getting the material and cuttinf.
Yes, a special adhesive is required, we are working on packaging small quantities with each kit. Only one joing, wing to baffle. After that, there are 5 (2 in baffle, 3 in wing) M8x1.25x60mm threaded holes that align with counter-bored holes (no golts will be visible) in the bases. so, 5 M8x1.25 x60-70mm per speaker (included) secure the speaker to the base.
jay
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I'll let you know if the current interested person doesn't pull the trigger on the Otica's.
Those Line force's unfortunately aren't staying either, they are a preordered pair
jay
Thank you Jay - let me know. And, the lines on the new Line Force look really, really nice! Good work man.
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that's what they were designed to be paired with :thumb:
Thanks Wade, your comments are much appreciated. Quite a bit of time and effort goes into most of these kits.
Yes, flat packs are available but there is lead time, especially if we need to order the composite. It's expensive and can't stock a ton of it. The good part is all the modeling, programming, test cuts etc are out of the way, so it's just amtter of getting the material and cuttinf.
Yes, a special adhesive is required, we are working on packaging small quantities with each kit. Only one joing, wing to baffle. After that, there are 5 (2 in baffle, 3 in wing) M8x1.25x60mm threaded holes that align with counter-bored holes (no golts will be visible) in the bases. so, 5 M8x1.25 x60-70mm per speaker (included) secure the speaker to the base.
jay
Jay,
What’s the price on the flatpack?
Mike
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Thank you Jay - let me know. And, the lines on the new Line Force look really, really nice! Good work man.
You got it, I think he's planning on coming up to audition on the 12th or so.
Wish my camera skills were better... a lot of attention to detail went intothese. All exposed edges have tight , clean 1/8 radius (inluding all edges on the base). Rear side of bbaffle has large radius's on all driver cutouts, all screw holes pre-drilled etc etc. they look better in person
Jay,
What’s the price on the flatpack?
Mike
Total price with all drivers and networks should be around 10-11k.
If you want the flat packs on their own, $4500 which a a signifigant reduction from the original aluminum pair.
jay
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Jay,
Thanks. Looks like I need to start feeding the piggy bank.
What is the footprint of the bade (L x W)?
Mike
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I'm in the same boat man. It's hard looking at these things knowing I'm not going to get to fire them up.
Approx 24x24, no more than that, just a bit less actually but remember, it's just the tips of the legs that reach out like that, a sub could easily be positioned a bit closer if you arranged it so it fint into the open area of the base. the tips of the legs are only about 6" out from either side of the cabinet.
jay
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When it comes to speaker design the received wisdom is that you shouldn’t put two drivers next to one another in the horizontal plane because of the inevitable lobing problem and the adverse effect on the off-axis response. The Line Force does obviously have drivers next to one another horizontally so i’m interested to hear what Danny has to say about this. Please note that this is not an attempt to trash this speaker- it is a perfectly reasonable question given that lobing is a well established problem and so I am genuinely interested in Danny’s response.
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While I’m sure Danny can get technical on lobing and it’s related line source theory.
One thing I know for sure. “Received wisdom” has created a lot of poor sounding loudspeakers over the years.
There has to be open minded experimentations for a design to reach new levels of realism. I learned that 35 years ago. I was listening to systems that the reviews said should be poor because of mesurements etc.
It was only true some of the time. Tubes sounded good even though I was supposed to hate them because of noise and distortion. Old school paper drivers generally sounded better than polypropylene despite the high tech marketing.
First time I heard the Ephipany 21/21 in my room, I knew I had been lied to by people who had never heard a good line source design. The resolution and imaging has yet to be surpassed in my room. They were just HUGE, and needed really good subs to hit their potential.
Not sure about the math or measurements, but trust your ears and always reserve judgement until you hear a new design.
I just discovered horns a few years ago because I heard some bad ones and believed the bad press that was generated by poor designs. I have new respect for them after actually owning a few pairs of good horn loaded designs now. Like live microphone feed in my room. Hard to get that from regular cones.
Wouldn’t have believed it until I heard it for myself.
Worth a plane ticket to RMAF and other opportunities to hear some of this exotic gear in person. :D
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While I’m sure Danny can get technical on lobing and it’s related line source theory.
One thing I know for sure. “Received wisdom” has created a lot of poor sounding loudspeakers over the years.
There has to be open minded experimentations for a design to reach new levels of realism. I learned that 35 years ago. I was listening to systems that the reviews said should be poor because of mesurements etc.
It was only true some of the time. Tubes sounded good even though I was supposed to hate them because of noise and distortion. Old school paper drivers generally sounded better than polypropylene despite the high tech marketing.
First time I heard the Ephipany 21/21 in my room, I knew I had been lied to by people who had never heard a good line source design. The resolution and imaging has yet to be surpassed in my room. They were just HUGE, and needed really good subs to hit their potential.
Not sure about the math or measurements, but trust your ears and always reserve judgement until you hear a new design.
I just discovered horns a few years ago because I heard some bad ones and believed the bad press that was generated by poor designs. I have new respect for them after actually owning a few pairs of good horn loaded designs now. Like live microphone feed in my room. Hard to get that from regular cones.
Wouldn’t have believed it until I heard it for myself.
Worth a plane ticket to RMAF and other opportunities to hear some of this exotic gear in person. :D
I will never have an opportunity to hear these speakers before deciding to buy them.
It’s a scientific fact that lobing messes with the off axis response and any competent speaker designer knows that - The MTM configuration is used by many because it is an effective way of combating it. Why is the off axis response important? The answer is in Toole’s book.
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I will never have an opportunity to hear these speakers before deciding to buy them.
It’s a scientific fact that lobing messes with the off axis response and any competent speaker designer knows that - The MTM configuration is used by many because it is an effective way of combating it. Why is the off axis response important? The answer is in Toole’s book.
Don't you worry, Danny is going to have a detailed answer for you. If there's one thing I've learned he cares about as opposed to many manufacturers, it's the off axis response. And the list goes on.... 8)
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When it comes to speaker design the received wisdom is that you shouldn’t put two drivers next to one another in the horizontal plane because of the inevitable lobing problem and the adverse effect on the off-axis response. The Line Force does obviously have drivers next to one another horizontally so i’m interested to hear what Danny has to say about this. Please note that this is not an attempt to trash this speaker- it is a perfectly reasonable question given that lobing is a well established problem and so I am genuinely interested in Danny’s response.
The Holy Grail for many is the Infinity IRS. That has been a standard of greatness for over 30 plus years. It has a similar driver arrangement. I have never heard any serious disparagement against it before.
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When it comes to speaker design the received wisdom is that you shouldn’t put two drivers next to one another in the horizontal plane because of the inevitable lobing problem and the adverse effect on the off-axis response. The Line Force does obviously have drivers next to one another horizontally so i’m interested to hear what Danny has to say about this. Please note that this is not an attempt to trash this speaker- it is a perfectly reasonable question given that lobing is a well established problem and so I am genuinely interested in Danny’s response.
Not Danny but while we await his response, read this if you haven't already
https://audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
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When it comes to speaker design the received wisdom is that you shouldn’t put two drivers next to one another in the horizontal plane because of the inevitable lobing problem and the adverse effect on the off-axis response. The Line Force does obviously have drivers next to one another horizontally so i’m interested to hear what Danny has to say about this. Please note that this is not an attempt to trash this speaker- it is a perfectly reasonable question given that lobing is a well established problem and so I am genuinely interested in Danny’s response.
Yes, this is a problem with a lot of line source designs, but not with mine.
The problem is that as you move left or right there is a time delay that changes between the two lines. One is delayed in time verses the other. And when one starts arriving with enough phase rotation then it starts cancelling the output and leaving a hole in the response. And a 180 degree phase rotation equals a 15db dip in the response and very uneven room responses.
The amount of cancellation per degree of off axis is easily a product of two things. It depends on the acoustic center spacing and crossover point. The greater the distance of the acoustic centers or the higher the crossover point the greater the problem.
So a typical 6.5" woofer to a line or ribbons will have an acoustic center spacing of about 7" and a crossover point in the 2.5kHz range. This will cause out of phase cancellations that can easily get sever. And if you don't know how to shift the phase using the filter design you can get a much deeper hole on one side than the other. Or you can get a pretty good dip in both directions.
And a 2.5kHz wavelength is about 5.5".
But as the crossover points drop much lower it becomes much less of an issue.
A 1kHz crossover point as used in our LS-6 line source was a wavelength of about 13". And the acoustic center spacing is 5.5".
Here are the off axis measurements. Red is on axis and each color going from red, to orange, to yellow, to green, and blue represent another 10 degrees off axis. This one is towards the tweeter side.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/off%20axis%20towards%20the%20tweeters.jpg)
And towards the woofer side.
(http://www.gr-research.com/pics/off%20axis%20towards%20the%20woofers.jpg)
In this direction we are barely seeing a slight dip in the 1.5kHz range. Not bad at all though. It's really good actually.
And with the Serenity Line force design the acoustic centers are only 4" apart. So the off axis cancellation becomes even less of an issue.
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And I always look at off axis measurements and how speakers load the room. I didn't save the ones for the Line Forces in a file that I have here, but they looked really good.
By the way, here is a link showing how I measure. http://www.stereomojo.com/Small%20Speaker%20Shootout%202007/StereomojoSmallSpeakerShootout2007Measurements.htm
It is interesting to look at all the speakers in the shoot out and their off axis measurements, especially the vertical off axis measurements. And not surprisingly the speaker with the best off axis measurements was also the speaker with the most preferred sound.
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I will never have an opportunity to hear these speakers before deciding to buy them.
It’s a scientific fact that lobing messes with the off axis response and any competent speaker designer knows that - The MTM configuration is used by many because it is an effective way of combating it. Why is the off axis response important? The answer is in Toole’s book.
By the way, the MTM configuration doesn't really combat the cancellation in the vertical off axis. It just makes it the same in both directions. Check out the measurements of the speakers that I posted a link to. Go to page two. One speaker was an MTM configuration, but it used a high crossover point. So check out what that did to the vertical off axis response.
Then compare that to the very next speaker below.
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Danny's LS9 crossover is at an even lower 850 Hz.
And I'm still enjoying them.
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Not Danny but while we await his response, read this if you haven't already
https://audioroundtable.com/misc/nflawp.pdf
Thanks for the link.
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Thanks for that Danny. What is the crossover frequency BTW on the Line Force?
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Thanks for that Danny. What is the crossover frequency BTW on the Line Force?
It is at about 1.8kHz using a very low order slope.
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I'm dying to see progress on these bad boys!
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I'm dying to see progress on these bad boys!
I posted a few pics of the composite cabs on the previous page.
They are at the painters , we've been in discussion with the customer about color and he's got a paint chip on the way so should be sprayed soon.
Will post some pics once we have them back
jay
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Question:
I've noticed the Neo3 being used in other builds of Danny's, but it's normally just one. Why so many in this configuration? Will having that many Neo3's overpower the treble?
thanks
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Question:
I've noticed the Neo3 being used in other builds of Danny's, but it's normally just one. Why so many in this configuration? Will having that many Neo3's overpower the treble?
thanks
This is a true line source design. So the driver arrays are equal length. It has several advantages and it does not make the treble louder. The output is very balanced.
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Was this pair completed/painted and fired up? Results? New pixs?
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I think Jay has a pair in paint right now.
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We had an issue getting the paint color the customer wanted. In the end, he sent us up an actual paint chip so we've now got it color matched. Spraying should happen very soon. We are now waiting for our painter as he recently had a medical procedure done. Cabs have been sitting in his shop primed and waiting for a while now...... soon !!
jay
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We had an issue getting the paint color the customer wanted. In the end, he sent us up an actual paint chip so we've now got it color matched. Spraying should happen very soon. We are now waiting for our painter as he recently had a medical procedure done. Cabs have been sitting in his shop primed and waiting for a while now...... soon !!
jay
Whats the price range on painting those up?
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Totall :(y depends on wha the customer wants.
Our lacqar guy is retty good but he is limited to basic colors with a choice of shjeen but, no metallics etc.
We also use a guy who sprays exclusively House of Kolor products but they add up fast and most are translucent so multiple layers are needed to get the desired deffect.
You probably saw these but here's a pic of the Super 7's we recenly built, they are done in House of Kolor tangerine Kandy... so multiple layers of primer/sealer and block sanding , a base coat, 5 coats of tangerine Kandy, then 2 coats of the HOK Show Clear. Material cost alone is up there but man, the paint is pretty killer..
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194774)
Wish pics would show the depth.
Lacqar guy did the satin black bases.
jay
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Base coats done. A quick block sanding before final color coats and clear.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194833)
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Hey stupid question.. I am full of stupid questions.... :lol:
You know how the NX-Otica come in another model called the NX-treme where it adds more drivers up top... Does the Super LS come in a smaller model? Like say 2/3rds the drivers?
Is that a thing? doable? You'd get most of the bang for a lower cost and a physically smaller unit. That's my thinking at least.
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Those are going to look (and sound) INCREDIBLE!
Beautiful work there Jay!
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Hey stupid question.. I am full of stupid questions.... :lol:
You know how the NX-Otica come in another model called the NX-treme where it adds more drivers up top... Does the Super LS come in a smaller model? Like say 2/3rds the drivers?
Is that a thing? doable? You'd get most of the bang for a lower cost and a physically smaller unit. That's my thinking at least.
That is about as short as it can be and still function as a line source.
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https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=icm8ojuu9fpe4n6k814jpbektdcpnkv5&topic=142235.0
He still LOVES his shorter version.
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Jay / Danny,
When you sell a set of these, do you include a set of padded shipping crates (or are those even a separate option)?
Given my space, I'm more than happy with my current speakers. However, it's easy to visit House of Kolor (https://www.houseofkolor.com/kolors/) and dream / lust.
(Nevermind...this was answered earlier in this thread)
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Haven't seen them in person yet, only some pics. These are going to be in a theater orom so they are top coated with flat lacqar to keep reflections down., Matching Super7 monitor and a dual h-frame for a center channel.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195444)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195445)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195446)
Note, the customer will be lying the dual h-frame on it's side to keep the tweeter down to ear level for those inthe theater. He also has a pair of triple h-frames to mate with the Line forces :thumb:
jay
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Jay,
Very nice! :D
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Looking good, Jay, I bet they sound better than they look!
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OUTSTANDING!!!....... :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Jay,
I just realized you don't have my address for shipping... I'll PM you :lol:
Kidding of course... Those look amazing.. can't wait to hear your report on them
Serious question: are you at all worried about them toppling over with accidental brushes/bumps? Or do they need a pretty strong smack to fall over?
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Wow! Those look great!
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Thanks guys. Anxious to get them to the customer !
No, they won't topple over, the base is pretty wide, kind of deceiving.
A couple more pics
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195462)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195463)
jay
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Haven't seen them in person yet, only some pics. These are going to be in a theater orom so they are top coated with flat lacqar to keep reflections down., Matching Super7 monitor and a dual h-frame for a center channel.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195444)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195445)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195446)
Note, the customer will be lying the dual h-frame on it's side to keep the tweeter down to ear level for those inthe theater. He also has a pair of triple h-frames to mate with the Line forces :thumb:
jay
Hi,
Line force paint is very successful what is its reference?
How deep is the side wing?
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Hi,
Line force paint is very successful what is its reference?
How deep is the side wing?
Color is matched to "Cracked Pepper" (https://m.valsparpaint.com/color-detail.php?id=2979&g=1047) finished in 00 flat lacquer.
Wing is approximately 14" deep
jay
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Thank you so much.
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I'm probably going to get flamed for this comment, but it comes from a place of love...
I love the lines of the Super LF...
I love the lines of the OB Sub cabinet...
I love the lines of the plate amp frame...
...but I'm not sure I'm in love when seeing them all together because I don't think they look like they're all part of the same design style. For example, the bases of the Super LFs are very different than those on the subs (and the plate amp frames don't really have a "base"). The Super LF's have a design element not found on the sub (or plate frames) - a curve on the top back of the wing). Same thing on plate amp frames - diagonal slots. The subs have an extra top plate to match the base (a design element not found anywhere else). The subs and plate amp boxes are "boxy" and the Super LFs are angled, fluid, and open. Yes, I know they're each designed by form-follows-function, but...
Just throwing this out there for consideration if you ever choose to revisit the aesthetics. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to symmetry and consistancy.
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Hey
No, no one will flame you for this. Totally understand and appreciate your comments but, we have to make these some what suitable for "99%" of the folks buying them and who have a multitude of different setups they are combining them with.
All your points are valid for someone wanting to shell out for a one off pair or set of custom cabinets but if we had done , say the subs to perfectly match the Super Ls's, then what happens to the guys who are using them to cover the bottom end with something different ? Same as the amp boxes, the slots are there to provide some ventalation... Yes, we could have done it with say holes, or multiple sized holes in some sort of pattern but is everyone going to want that ? One size never fits all and I'm pretty sure you understand that.. everything requires modeling and programming which can addup to significant time and cost. so far, we've managed to keep these reasonably priced and there fore are available for a lot of people who couldn't otherwise have acces to CNC'd flat packs.
If someone wants say a custom one off set that all basically match, that is not an issue bujt they need to be prepared to deal with associated costs.
And, with regards to the rear rounded top conrner of the Super LS, that feature is pretty common .... the entire NX line has it, the new super Mini's etc. I've been trying to come up with a way to incorportate it nto the sujbs as I think it would be something that would "fly" with everyone... just not as easy as it looks !!
jay
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Hey
No, no one will flame you for this. Totally understand and appreciate your comments but, we have to make these some what suitable for "99%" of the folks buying them and who have a multitude of different setups they are combining them with.
All your points are valid for someone wanting to shell out for a one off pair or set of custom cabinets but if we had done , say the subs to perfectly match the Super Ls's, then what happens to the guys who are using them to cover the bottom end with something different ? Same as the amp boxes, the slots are there to provide some ventalation... Yes, we could have done it with say holes, or multiple sized holes in some sort of pattern but is everyone going to want that ? One size never fits all and I'm pretty sure you understand that.. everything requires modeling and programming which can addup to significant time and cost. so far, we've managed to keep these reasonably priced and there fore are available for a lot of people who couldn't otherwise have acces to CNC'd flat packs.
If someone wants say a custom one off set that all basically match, that is not an issue bujt they need to be prepared to deal with associated costs.
And, with regards to the rear rounded top conrner of the Super LS, that feature is pretty common .... the entire NX line has it, the new super Mini's etc. I've been trying to come up with a way to incorportate it nto the sujbs as I think it would be something that would "fly" with everyone... just not as easy as it looks !!
jay
Rounding over in multiple adjacent planes and/or slopping can end up limiting finishing options to paint or Dura-Tex. Veneer cannot be rolled over more than two planes and not everybody wants fully painted speakers
Mike
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I believe the poster above was referring to the rear upper corner radius onthe Lf/NX/Super Mini's etc and then the subs are subs don't have the same .
And yeah, the roundovers on the edges can make things difficult which is why all our cabinets come with 90 degree cuts, we ad the roundovers or other features if customers request them ..
Super LS is te exception... everything has a radius on it including all edges on the bases.
jay
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I think if I designed my dream set, I’d go with a candy apple red with matte black bases. I’d square the radius in the top wing. I’d used the same base on the speakers that’s on the subs - a simple slab. I’d remove the extra top plate on the subs. Not sure what I’d do with the plate amps. Maybe a candy box with a matte slab base (same style as the subs, just smaller), w/ vertical vent slots on the back side. It’s fun to dream.
Thanks for indulging my thoughts!
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Always good to dream !! I'm still dreaming of hearing these at some point, this pair is off to danny for final assembly then off to the customer.
Those bases were designed to lift the speaker up approx 5.5 "
LOL, and that upper corner radius... leaned both ways with that, it was finally decided to put it in .
Maybe at some point we'll have it as an option ... who knows !
House of Kolor, Kany's and translucents are their specialty and that is all our high end guy sprays.
Plesent dreams :)
jay
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Hi,
You have already explained that the cutoff frequency between the Neo10 and the servo sub was 180 hz and that between Neo10 and Neo3 was 1800 hz with a low slope.
Can you specify the slope of these cuts?
Have you tried active filtering solutions with lower and steeper slopes?
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Hi,
You have already explained that the cutoff frequency between the Neo10 and the servo sub was 180 hz and that between Neo10 and Neo3 was 1800 hz with a low slope.
Can you specify the slope of these cuts?
Have you tried active filtering solutions with lower and steeper slopes?
I don't think most understand the pure amount of commitment it takes to bring such a product to market.
Danny has discussed many times that he has yet to find an active crossover that sounds as good as a well designed passive. I don't think most understand the extent of Danny's experience with these drivers. Rich Hollis and I were there as Danny was doing the final tweaking of the crossover for this design. No one, absolutely no one has the experience and expertise with these drivers that Danny has, and I dare say that includes the manufacturer. His painstaking commitment to detail, accuracy, and finally musicality of his designs is at the very top of his profession. You might find an alternative active crossover that would suit you well, but your likelihood of improvement is low.
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Hi,
You have already explained that the cutoff frequency between the Neo10 and the servo sub was 180 hz and that between Neo10 and Neo3 was 1800 hz with a low slope.
Can you specify the slope of these cuts?
Have you tried active filtering solutions with lower and steeper slopes?
Seriously? The whole point of having a kit is so people will buy it and compensate the designers/creators for their work. Giving away all the information re: crossover design completely undercuts their ability to be compensated for their work.
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Hi,
You have already explained that the cutoff frequency between the Neo10 and the servo sub was 180 hz and that between Neo10 and Neo3 was 1800 hz with a low slope.
Can you specify the slope of these cuts?
Have you tried active filtering solutions with lower and steeper slopes?
The subwoofer amp has a 12dB per octave slope with the option for an additional 12dB per octave starting at 50Hz or 80Hz. The phase control is also on the sub amp.
The midrange is what it is based on the particular design. The goal is to adjust the subs to match the mids.
Mike
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Seriously? The whole point of having a kit is so people will buy it and compensate the designers/creators for their work. Giving away all the information re: crossover design completely undercuts their ability to be compensated for their work.
If the creator of this speaker had wanted to keep his filter completely secret, he would never have spoken about cutoff frequencies.
I think that the confidentiality of the diagrams and components of the filter guarantees the designer that it will not be copied.
In my speaker I use in a baffle plane a B & G RD75 and 4 Precision device 18 inch baffle in H.
Active filtering is done by convolution with phase correction of the filtering.
The purpose of my message is to exchange ideas about the design of our speaker.
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Hi,
You have already explained that the cutoff frequency between the Neo10 and the servo sub was 180 hz and that between Neo10 and Neo3 was 1800 hz with a low slope.
Can you specify the slope of these cuts?
Have you tried active filtering solutions with lower and steeper slopes?
That's okay. I am not offended by your questions.
I'll show you and everyone the actual and real acoustic slopes and measurements on these.
Now a line source has to be measured and tested quite differently than a point source design. The mic has to be further away and floor and ceiling reflections have to be accounted for. So the measurements have to include an in room response. And the room as to be well treated and well known to not skew the data or cause a misinterpretation of the data.
So the squiggles in the measurements are because of the room reflections. The dead drop at 20kHz is also common with any speaker in this room.
And I have to look at the responses of each speaker in both sides of the room.
Here is the speaker on the left side of the room.
(http://gr-research.com/measurements/in%20room%20left%20side%202.jpg)
And here is the one on the right.
(http://gr-research.com/measurements/right%20speaker.jpg)
Note too that the scaling of the graph is a 5db scale. So this is an incredibly smooth response for a room measurement.
So the slope and roll off can be easily seen.
Electronic crossovers really don't apply and can't really be made to work very well with line sources. The reason is that the output of a line source is skewed to the lower end. Lower wavelengths couple and add gain while the upper wavelengths do not. So the crossover is much more than just a crossover. It is a filter designed to make a linear response out of an acoustic response that is not linear. That means the filters is manipulating the response of each group of drivers within their pass band. Textbook filters don't do that.
And most active filters put too much in the signal path that degrades the signal. And you have to deal with yet another power supply, A/C noise levels, more power cables, conditioning.... op amps in the signal path, more connections, additional cables, and on and on...
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Electronic crossovers really don't apply and can't really be made to work very well with line sources. The reason is that the output of a line source is skewed to the lower end. Lower wavelengths couple and add gain while the upper wavelengths do not. So the crossover is much more than just a crossover. It is a filter designed to make a linear response out of an acoustic response that is not linear. That means the filters is manipulating the response of each group of drivers within their pass band. Textbook filters don't do that.
It seems that your design work for this filter is to linearize the response of the Neo3 on 1 octave before applying 12 db/oct filter.
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It seems that your design work for this filter is to linearize the response of the Neo3 on 1 octave before applying 12 db/oct filter.
Well, sort of. As frequency decreases the output couples and additional gain is produced. So the filter has to be designed to lay that response over into a flat line, but then use and allow the natural roll off of the drivers. Crossover points are not picked. The response of the drivers dictate it.
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indeed, the response curve of the Neo3 seems to descend steadily at 800 hz, a little over an octave higher than this to determine the crossover point of the filter at 1800 hz.
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for the less knowledgeable (me) , in Danny we trust.
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indeed, the response curve of the Neo3 seems to descend steadily at 800 hz, a little over an octave higher than this to determine the crossover point of the filter at 1800 hz.
Danny was talking about the natural roll off of the Neo 10's and then crossing to the subs
jay
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195444)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195445)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195446)
These things just arrived here for assembly. What a work of art!
And Jay and Don really packed these things well for the trip. I should have taken pictures of they way they were boxed. Wow!
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Thanks Danny. Really glad they are safe and sound, we felt they were pretty secure. Custom box/packing adds up but it's worth it.
Can't wait to see a couple pics once you assemble them and the rest of the setup !!
jay
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Nice!
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They live again!
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Thanks Danny. Really glad they are safe and sound, we felt they were pretty secure. Custom box/packing adds up but it's worth it.
Can't wait to see a couple pics once you assemble them and the rest of the setup !!
jay
Jay,
Did you take any pics of the packing process?
Mike
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Jay,
Did you take any pics of the packing process?
Mike
No, probably should have though. I modeled everything up then we had custom #2styrofoam cnc cut.
Did it in such a way that after wrapping each cabinet, we could basically encapsulate both speakers in foram around a core, then wrap them all up with cling to keep it all bound together before finally slipping the entire thing into a custom made , super heavy duty box.
We did very similar for the S7 center, the dual h-frame, and the Line Force/Super LS bases.
jay
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Eagerly waiting for the fully assembled pics. What kind of parts will be used for the XOs?
Information on the performance, sound etc
:banana piano: :banana piano: :hyper:
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Oh My! Those will be spectacular!
Where can one go to Demo these? :green:
I would be certain these could be among the very best speakers ever made.
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Oh My! Those will be spectacular!
Where can one go to Demo these? :green:
I would be certain these could be among the very best speakers ever made.
After about an hour of listening to the original model the designer of the drivers said that my system was the best sounding system that he has heard in 30 years of audio. :green:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137990.msg1469047#msg1469047
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After about an hour of listening to the original model the designer of the drivers said that my system was the best sounding system that he has heard in 30 years of audio. :green:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137990.msg1469047#msg1469047
Looking forward to comments on differences (if any, and if so, how much) between the original Aluminum frames and these Composites. I hope they are fairly minor or even imperceptible.
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Looking forward to comments on differences (if any, and if so, how much) between the original Aluminum frames and these Composites. I hope they are fairly minor or even imperceptible.
There will be no resonance issues with these. A fully open cabinet like these won't be loaded much, if any at all. There is no outer wing to create anything.
We went with a composite that is slightly denser than MDF, roughly .8 gr/cc. Main issues were strength as there is not a lot of material left between drivers after machining.
This stuff is so dimensionsally stable and nice to machine. On top of that, once it's glued up, it's really one solid piece, the joint becomes part of the material itself.
We also put a lot of emphasis on attention to detail so nothing looks overlooked or unfinished. Every exposed edge, even on the bases has been finished with a tight, 3.175mm radius. All driver cutouts have a large radius on the rear side along with a very tight bevel around the front side so after mounting drivers it will be ever so slightly apparent.
We've consulted with Danny throughout this design process, I'm confident these will be easily measure up :)
jay
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Beautiful work Sirs How much $$$ for speaker ? Thank you.
charles
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Do we have lift-off? :popcorn: :D
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When is the reveal? :drums: :drums:
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The pair is up and playing. I'll post a bunch of pictures and impressions shortly.
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:o :o :o :o :o
:thumb:
Make the feet/base lower if possible, cradle it to the floor like pardigm or some of the many others that are low and wide.
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Make the feet/base lower if possible, cradle it to the floor like pardigm or some of the many others that are low and wide.
You want the LS to be up where it is and actually, they are not the tall but are wider than you may think from the pictures
jay
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So how tall are these overall?
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Super interesting speakers! Will these come as a kit or fully asmbeled at some point? I see the NEO10 are now available again.
Couple of questions:
Do these have some kind of shading, or do all mid drivers play the same signal, and all the tweeters play the same signal?
Are there any reason besides cost that you haven't extended the line even further with more drivers? Extending the line towards the floor and ceiling could give a floor (and ceiling) reflection that could be beneficial as long as you don't use any shading.
Hoping to hear your thoughts on this. :)
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Super interesting speakers! Will these come as a kit or fully asmbeled at some point? I see the NEO10 are now available again.
Couple of questions:
Do these have some kind of shading, or do all mid drivers play the same signal, and all the tweeters play the same signal?
Are there any reason besides cost that you haven't extended the line even further with more drivers? Extending the line towards the floor and ceiling could give a floor (and ceiling) reflection that could be beneficial as long as you don't use any shading.
Hoping to hear your thoughts on this. :)
Where exactly do you find reasonably priced NEO10s? I've seen them only priced @ $370 a pop, so a pair Super LS will run you $4440 just for those drivers, you'll still need a whole mess of NEO3s, the crossover, then the flat pack.
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Where exactly do you find reasonably priced NEO10s? I've seen them only priced @ $370 a pop, so a pair Super LS will run you $2960 just for those drivers, you'll still need a whole mess of NEO3s, the crossover, then the flat pack.
Right now I dont really know if there is.. at least I haven't seen any available lately.
Overall, they seem to go thru cycles of availability and have only gotten more expensive with each occasional release.. even the Neo3s have gotten really expensive, running $90-130 depending on the model... Luckily, Danny has his own version.
I think someone was considering trying out the GRS branded Neo10 clone as an alternative, but from when testing with the Super mini baffle, it doesn't quite play low enough to reach the 200hz limit of the subs, tho that may be less of an issue in a line-source setup.
Even then, your still looking at roughly $1500 for just the GRS clones to build one.
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I believe the Neo10s are currently out of production. At least in the DIY market.
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Yes, the BG NEO10's are no longer available via Parts-Express. They are gone from the website. Only the BG NEO3 and NEO8 models are still there.
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Hopefully Danny comes up with a comparable line source soon.
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Still working on alternatives for the Neo10
Not a flat pack either, these come glued up ready to finish. Base and crossover board bolt right on and there are no corners/edges etc left unfinished. Lots of attention to detail....
jay
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It's crazy that the (probably) best midrange driver in the world has had it's availability just sort of dry up.
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Cursed.
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It's crazy that the (probably) best midrange driver in the world has had it's availability just sort of dry up.
Just speculation on my part, but I suspect PS Audio is going to have them in their new speakers and they are hogging up the production.
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So what was the sensitivity and ohm rating on the prototype Super LS? Do these type of designs require an insanely good amplifier?
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So what was the sensitivity and ohm rating on the prototype Super LS? Do these type of designs require an insanely good amplifier?
Not in the least. IIRC the sensitivity is somewhere around 94-95dB and can be driven very well with 5-10 watts.
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So what was the sensitivity and ohm rating on the prototype Super LS? Do these type of designs require an insanely good amplifier?
Since all the bass is offloaded to the self powered OB bass section, your main amp only has to drive the main panels from 150hz on up. And as Mike says, the main panel section is 95db and a nice flat impedance. A good 300b amp at 8 watts sounds amazing with them.
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Thanks guys. I might have to wait and see if a replacement for the neo10 materializes. Seems like an end game speaker design.
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Thanks guys. I might have to wait and see if a replacement for the neo10 materializes. Seems like an end game speaker design.
Danny is diligently working on a replacement. Not sure how long it’s going to take with all the supply chain problems down to raw material producers but it will be worth the weighr
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Thanks guys. I might have to wait and see if a replacement for the neo10 materializes. Seems like an end game speaker design.
There is no seems like. It is an end game speaker design from someone that has heard them with passive and DSP crossovers and the dual 3x12 servo subs! :thumb:
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I will take out a home equity loan in 3 seconds flat for this speaker.
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Since all the bass is offloaded to the self powered OB bass section, your main amp only has to drive the main panels from 150hz on up. And as Mike says, the main panel section is 95db and a nice flat impedance. A good 300b amp at 8 watts sounds amazing with them.
180hz on up and 98db efficient vs 97 for the Super-7 and 93.5 for the NX-Otica speakers, unless things have changed (?)
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Where exactly do you find reasonably priced NEO10s? I've seen them only priced @ $370 a pop, so a pair Super LS will run you $4440 just for those drivers, you'll still need a whole mess of NEO3s, the crossover, then the flat pack.
I believed Parts Express had them for $199, but didn't realize they were gone again. Anyway, if anyone is buiilding a speaker like this, they should be prepared to dig deep in their pockets. So I guess there is an economical and not an acoustic the reason for the relative short line of drivers. It probably works well anyway. :D
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The last price of the BG NEO10's at Parts-Express was $370.00 per planar. They jumped alot on the last production before they went away.
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I think the cheapest i ever saw them was $249 a year or so ago, but they were still really limited as far as stock goes.
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I was able to get the NEO10s for $320 each by buying 13 together (one spare). I ordered them last July from PE and finally got them in November.
Working on the crossovers now, and hopefully Jay (Captainhemo) will be able to make the cabinets for me this spring.
I'm excited!
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Working on the crossovers now,
I assume you're gonna use super premium crossover parts???
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I assume you're gonna use super premium crossover parts???
Nah use the cheesy crossover parts to more easily match a yellow theme for the baffle. After dropping that much cash on the drivers, you have to cut corners somewhere, LOL.
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Here's a photo of one of the caps. There are several similar size caps in each crossover :green:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223002)
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Here's a photo of one of the caps. There are several similar size caps in each crossover :green:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223002)
Knowing how big the NXStudio Miflex caps I got recently are, I think I know exactly which one that is! :wink:
Iirc, aren't the KPCU-02 the units with both leads on the same side?
Will you be using miflex bypass caps as well or the Duelund caps I've seen others mention?
What were your pics for the resistors & inductors?
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Yes, the KPCU-2 caps have both leads coming from the same end.
I am still waiting on the inductors and resistors. Dang is shipping them to me shortly.
I haven’t decided on bypass. Danny didn’t use them on his prototypes, but I may give them a try.
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Yes, the KPCU-2 caps have both leads coming from the same end.
I am still waiting on the inductors and resistors. Dang is shipping them to me shortly.
I haven’t decided on bypass. Danny didn’t use them on his prototypes, but I may give them a try.
Ahh okay, I'm most likely going to be getting Erse Foil-Q inductors and Path Audio resistors based on a few different recommentdations. Tho I'm excited to see what your choices end up being! :thumb:
Ahh okay, I'll be sticking with Miflex caps for bypass, but im surprised that Danny didnt use them, but maybe it's because it was a prototype?
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Wow! You going to light that off in the back yard? Speaking of caps, tonight I swapped out the Sonicaps on the mid circuit of my NXOticas for a single Auricap XO and a Miflex bypass and it instantly took the speakers to another level. Cant wait to hear how they are after a 100hrs.
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After trying Danny's original pair of Line Force speakers with 3x12 servo's with my dspMusik 2x8 digital crossover, that would be the way I would go if I built a pair with my BG NEO10's and GR NEO3's. We drove the line array directly with his solid state battery amp.
I prefer time delay between the line array and the servo subs instead of phase control for wave front alignment. Worked well in Danny's setup when we tried in 2015.
The new version of the DSP crossover is the dspNexus 2x8. Has the new AKM AK4499EQ DAC's with Class A output stage. The prototype dspNexus I have is working well with my planars ad servo subs. Showed it at AXPONA2019 with the Super Mini's and got great response in the room.
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After trying Danny's original pair of Line Force speakers with 3x12 servo's with my dspMusik 2x8 digital crossover, that would be the way I would go if I built a pair with my BG NEO10's and GR NEO3's. We drove the line array directly with his solid state battery amp.
I prefer time delay between the line array and the servo subs instead of phase control for wave front alignment. Worked well in Danny's setup when we tried in 2015.
The new version of the DSP crossover is the dspNexus 2x8. Has the new AKM AK4499EQ DAC's with Class A output stage. The prototype dspNexus I have is working well with my planars ad servo subs. Showed it at AXPONA2019 with the Super Mini's and got great response in the room.
Was that the Digital crossover Danny said was pretty much as good as his passive crossover?
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Yes.
And the new version is better. Still waiting on final production date, but should be soon.
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@HAL - I read your megaliths thread. Very impressive project. I think a little beyond what I want to attempt at this point, and I already have a lot invested in a more conventional approach with a nice DAC, analog preamp, etc.
At some point, I may experiment with using an active crossover and bi-amping, but that's definitely down the road a ways. In the mean time, I'm trying to build the best quality passive crossover I can using Danny's design and guidance.
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Not even a big deal for the Line Force. We wired up the line arrays as single outputs from a stereo power amp and the dspMusik 2x8 as the DAC driving the planars and servo subs. Did not use the time delay feature on the line array.
We did a simple distance offset measurement and turned it into a time delay. Then I just delayed the mains so the subs (which were behind the lines) and line array outputs time aligned. Just simple a simple thing to add to the crossover design.
Good luck with your passive XO.
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Here's a photo of one of the caps. There are several similar size caps in each crossover :green:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=223002)
OK, so I'm gonna follow your crossover build with great interest. The crossover enclosures will be as big as the speakers!!! Miflex caps are awesome and worth every penny.
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The new version of the DSP crossover is the dspNexus 2x8. Has the new AKM AK4499EQ DAC's with Class A output stage. The prototype dspNexus I have is working well with my planars ad servo subs. Showed it at AXPONA2019 with the Super Mini's and got great response in the room.
I was there and can say they sounded amazing. I was surprised by how holographic they were. I still can’t quite get my Super 7s to sound holographic but concede I just haven’t had a good room for them. I’m still playing around with positioning and toe-in too.