full range match this box?

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aec

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full range match this box?
« on: 11 Oct 2022, 03:22 pm »
prefer 12 inch full range

thank you

FullRangeMan

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #1 on: 11 Oct 2022, 03:41 pm »
prefer 12 inch full range

thank you
What are the litrage of this box?
Visaton B200 8'' are suited to Sealed 100 Litres.
Usually FRs drivers are aimed to BR box or OB.
Lii Audio have this fine 12'':
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/one-pair-12-inch-full-range-speaker-driver-f-12/

richidoo

Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #2 on: 11 Oct 2022, 04:46 pm »
What are the litrage of this box?

"Literage"    great word! love it!  :thumb:

12" round tube x 20" long = 1.31 cu ft volume.
That should work OK for typical 8-10" driver designed for sealed box. Too big for 5" full range. But you can add foam blocks to a box that's too big much more easilyer than adding more volume.
To determine the best volume for your specific driver we need to know the driver specs, or just the driver name.

The bigger problem here is that the round baffle shape is literally the worst baffle shape possible for midrange use. It's OK for bass, because bass frequencies are omnidirectional radiation anyway, so the box shape doesn't matter below 500Hz. But for frequencies of a "full range" driver with wavelengths longer than the baffle width, the sound will diffract over the edge, causing fast rolloff of the frequency response. If the baffle edge is equidistant at every radial angle then you will make this dffraction dip as bad as it can possibly be. 

Ideally you want the distance from center of driver to the baffle edge to different in every direction, so you minimize the dffraction dip, spread it out over the widest frequency range as possible. For this, a large rectangle baffle shape is good, especially if you mount the driver off center in the baffle. Like a 24 x 36" rectangle baffle, with the center of the 8" driver located so that there is 3" from the right edge of baffle, 6" from the top edge, 9" from the left edge and 12" from the bottom edge. Then the baffle corners add additional variation in distance to the edge. The varying distance make the diffraction happen at different wavelengths (frequencies) so the diffraction dip is flattened across larger bandwidth and less noticeable.

Ironically, a round shape is the ideal baffle shape as long as it is spherical and not flat. Sphere makes the smoothest diffraction rolloff possible while flat round baffle with sharp edge is the worst.  :scratch:

Also, for smaller full range drivers ideally you want the baffle to be as large as possible because this pushes the diffraction frequency lower, so you get more bass, usually this is desired with a full range driver.

https://trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Baffle-Step-Correction-Circuit-Calculator/
https://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/intro-bds.html
The last article is written by our own member "planet10"  :thumb:

planet10

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #3 on: 11 Oct 2022, 05:16 pm »
Visaton B200 8'' are suited to Sealed 100 Litres.
Usually FRs drivers are aimed to BR box or OB.

It is hard to put a B200 into a sealed box, its Q really wants something with less loading like an OB oe aperiodic box. It is decidely not  suitable for BR.

dave

planet10

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #4 on: 11 Oct 2022, 05:17 pm »
1.31 ft3 = 37 litres.

Really small for most 12” (purported) FRs.

dave

FullRangeMan

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #5 on: 11 Oct 2022, 05:27 pm »
It is hard to put a B200 into a sealed box, its Q really wants something with less loading like an OB oe aperiodic box. It is decidely not  suitable for BR.

dave
Visaton always had recommended the sealed 100 litres for the B200, I had confirmed years ago with them and the tech guy says BR was not recommemded, recently I heard about custumers are using 200 Litres boxes for just one B200.

So suddenly Visaton are suggesting BR boxes for the B200:
https://www.visaton.de/en/products/fullrange-systems/solo-100
This video shows a small aperiodic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anGQEQ7JB1c

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #6 on: 11 Oct 2022, 06:04 pm »
For context. As mentioned by Richidoo. You could mount the driver in the side of the cylinder as shown and get better results.



planet10

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #7 on: 11 Oct 2022, 06:24 pm »
Visaton always had recommended the sealed 100 litres for the B200

I always looked at that as a compromise that will produce elevated bass, even 100 litres needs to be aperiodic or a boffle.

dave

Scottmoose

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #8 on: 16 Oct 2022, 11:19 pm »
So suddenly Visaton are suggesting BR boxes for the B200:
https://www.visaton.de/en/products/fullrange-systems/solo-100

Not all that 'sudden'. ;) The Solo 100 & smaller Solo 50 have been around for 18 - 19 years (although they were redrawn as recently as 2009). Note that they are not 'standard' vented enclosures; they have internal Helmholtz resonators to control what would otherwise be an excessively underdamped response, pushing it closer toward the aperiodic / damped vented alignment Dave refers to.

FullRangeMan

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Re: full range match this box?
« Reply #9 on: 17 Oct 2022, 12:02 am »
OK thanks.