AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: DaveC113 on 2 Aug 2015, 02:45 am
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I'd like recommendations for a computer I can use in the listening area without fan noise. I'd use it for video and music storage and playback as well as general use. It won't be the primary music server, I have a HAP-Z1ES so I am not concerned with optimizing the computer for audio. For video a hdmi output would be necessary. I'd probably want an onboard 500 gig ssd and maybe 4 tb outboard storage, if anyone has recommendations for RAID or backup system I'd like to incorporate that too... currently I'm backing up my music manually on a hdd and it's a pita.
Other use is web surfing, email, office programs, light photo processing. No gaming but if it could run a CAD program like SolidWorks that would be a bonus.
I've seen some pricey custom built options and some inexpensive mini pcs that probably don't have enough capability. I'd like to not spend more than $1k, not sure if this is possible?
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I am using this, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-i7-4500u-home-server-mini-pc-linux-x29-i7-4500u-support-Touchpad/32276591766.html
Added 16gb memory and 128gb ssd and i am more then happy.
V
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I unfortunately don't have a good recommendation for a silent PC (other than going as low-power as you can), but here are some options for back-up system.
For backup/fileserver, have you looked into separate server running for example FreeNAS, NAS4Free or openmediavault? I have started to play around with openmediavault on an old machine and if I like it, I will get a cheap <$500 tower server. The server will then be placed in the basement so fan noise, etc. will be a no-issue and accessed by clients throughout the house. If you have an old computer in storage, pull it out and see if it the software will fit your needs. It's free to play!
http://www.openmediavault.org/
It's often recommended to get a NAS for backup (RAID is not necessarily back-up) and network storage, but note that Multiple Hard drives can be pricey depending on storage needs.
For Video you can stream to a for example a chromecast or raspberrypi2 running Kodi. Both are silent and cheap. Plex is another good option.
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I am using this, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-New-i7-4500u-home-server-mini-pc-linux-x29-i7-4500u-support-Touchpad/32276591766.html
Added 16gb memory and 128gb ssd and i am more then happy.
V
That one looks pretty interesting! Did you keep linux on it or did you load windows? Does it run hot?
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That one looks pretty interesting! Did you keep linux on it or did you load windows? Does it run hot?
It is barebone box. It neither have linux ram or ssd. I think i got for 280$ shipped to me. I installed 16gb ddr3 dual sided ram, 128gb ssd powered by 5v and HDplex LPS and installed windows 2012 r2 and the sound has been amazing. It runs a little hot but nothing to worry about :) ....
you can check on my thread.
V
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Thanks vv, that's not bad. I found some similar options on ebay... I'd be a little more comfortable ordering from someone in the US and probably paying a little more. There's a few folks buying barebones fanless mini PCs and loading them with RAM, HDDs, etc or building their own. Any comments on these options?: The first one may not be fanless. The last option can do 4k vid although not sure how much that really matters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331618658330?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141727241102?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311415106503?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I've also looked at the Intel NUC but the issues with the mini-HDMI are making me think twice about that option but the higer end built in graphics may be nice... As you can tall from this thread and the last one on HDMI audio extractors I'm not super into computers, I just want them to work and not give me a hard time... and not make noise :)
Amazon also has some similar options and no interest financing which is always welcome.... IDK, maybe I should just go with the Intel brand? edit, looks like the NUCs are not fanless and the more powerful units are pretty noisy...
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Other use is web surfing, email, office programs, light photo processing. No gaming but if it could run a CAD program like SolidWorks that would be a bonus.
You really don't want to use your music pc for anything but audio/video. CAD is out for sure if you have decent size models and use FEA at all. I built a dedicated Windows workstation for CAD and it's amazing. It's easy to source all the parts and assemble. Fully parametric models with thousands of features is as quick as anything I've used.
Stay dedicated and do something else for the other stuff. I'd build one inexpensive unit, CAPS or MS-3 for audio/video and build one workstation for CAD, office, surfing etc. You will be much better off in the end.
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Another vote for a MS-3 from HAL, I have a MS-2, works great, no fan to create noise.
Scotty
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Thanks jtw and Scotty, one thing is I don't need the PC to be a great music server as I already have a Sony HAP-Z1ES I use to play music. I'll use it more for video than audio, I recently got rid of DirecTV and when I use my laptop for video it sounds like a small jet engine.
So the use will be mainly video + web surfing, office programs and light photo editing while being silent. This seems like what the ASRock Beebox 3000 was made for, I'm leaning that direction... it's not a fast processor but something has to give at the $500 price point.
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You could build one too. No shortage of options in fanless. This way you can actually use the most powerful CPU in your budget. $500 is a bit harder, but $1k is super easy to make it under. It's harder to assemble your cables than a PC these days. Form factor is a bigger concern, because maybe you don't want a "tower", but prefer an appliance.
Parts list
CPU
MOBO
CPU Cooler
Case
PSU
HDD
Disc driver (maybe?, can you do USB now?)
OS (Linux? free)
(http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/main/cpu-nof-01_3.jpg)
(http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/pdf/cst-1341a.jpg)
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I've built a couple of PCs for my stereo. I don't really know how to strip an OS of unneeded programming, but a quiet PC is not too hard. My first used silent fans, the second is fanless. I did a little reading, here and elsewhere, concentrating on a CPU with low TDP that still would do what I needed - surf the net while playing music - to use some of J River's options. At one point I built one of the very simple CAPS models, but it locked up whenever I wanted to use the internet while playing music. On my last one, the fanless one, I looked for several months on ebay and finally snagged a nice CPU that would do what I wanted at low temps - it was from a laptop. I used an ATX motherboard that also had low temp ratings. I'm not not gonna mention model numbers because they have all been replaced by better new models. Then I added a HUGE cooling stack and a SOtM USB card from Sonore. I put it in a big wood box and IT LIVES Total cost was around $1K. Next one will be smaller. My current aim is to come up with a better power supply, perhaps battery.
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If I didn't have HAL units and just wanted a PC I might look at stuff like - https://www.xi3.com/
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I like the Gigabyte Brix lineup. They are small fanless* barebone DIY PCs to which you add RAM, SSD/HDD and OS, and they offer more processor choices, features and performance than Intel NUC.
Processors from range Celeron to i7, Intel HD Graphics 5500 or Iris Pro 5200, HDMI and Display Port, WiFi dual-band 802.11ac, Bluetooth 4.0, 4 x USB 3.0 and can they can accommodate 1 x mSATA SSD and 1 x 2.5" HDD.
Here's one middle of the road i5 model:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164026 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164026)
* apparently only the dual-core Celeron model is fanless
Steve
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srb, I believe that one has a fan... like the Beebox you need the Intel N3000 chip to go fanless, although they do offer a model with that processor that says it "supports fanless operation" but does not say it's actually fanless. It's kind of confusing, but I did read a review complaining the fan noise from the Gigabyte was louder than the Intel.
I'm also contacting the builder of the computer in the 1st link I posted... I don't necessarily need the mini form-factor. If he's set this up fanless it looks like a better value vs the minis/NUCs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331618658330?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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I bought my last personal PC here on a friend's rec.
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com
Prices are reasonable. Just research the parts you want and have it custom built. Aside from fan noise, get a case that doesn't have a bunch of goofy LED's. They're childish and some can actually can emit an annoying high pitch sound.
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srb, I believe that one has a fan... like the Beebox you need the Intel N3000 chip to go fanless, although they do offer a model with that processor that says it "supports fanless operation" but does not say it's actually fanless. It's kind of confusing, but I did read a review complaining the fan noise from the Gigabyte was louder than the Intel.
Dave, it appears that you are correct. I had read some release articles that mentioned "fanless", but now talking directly with Gigabyte after your post, I have learned that only the dual-core Celeron model is fanless.
The motherboard is the heart of a computer, and in the past I have been disappointed with the stability of many third tier brand (or no name) motherboards. ASUS, Gigabtye and Intel are among some of the best stable premium motherboard brands, and for me, the search will continue for a faneless computer with one of those, avoiding the nebulous eBay offerings.
But I guess that until newer lower power consumption processors appear, for now computers with midrange and up performance will require some kind of sealed heatpipe apparatus with side mounted heatsinks or larger enclosures that can accommodate the larger processor-mounted passive heatsinks.
Steve
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This is a good website for new fanless product launches. They also do a good job of calling out when the term "fanless" is misused/abused by vendors.
http://www.fanlesstech.com/
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Dave, it appears that you are correct.
After the last thread on HDMI I was a little worried! :wink:
It does appear that I go with the N3000 mini or a custom built option with passive heatsinks for cooling. The N3000 CPU only uses 4 watts, but it's a dual-core 1 GHz model. Honestly, the N3000 mini from ASRock or Gigabyte would probably fulfill my needs but the custom option I linked to seems, like it would be way faster for a similar price, it's just not in mini/NUC form.
Many custom options cost a ton of cash, using a smaller builder like the one I linked to on ebay is taking a chance, but so are people that give my little audio business a chance too. I like to support direct-marketed small businesses if I think they are competent and ebay feedback and buyer protection makes me feel better about it.
I did find a totl custom fanless built by endpcnoise.com that was $4k to build for sale for $2k on WBF forum, if he wants to trade cables maybe I'll get lucky and get a bada$$ unit that can do anything... :) But right now $2k is too much money when a $500 unit will suffice for my needs.
asliarun, good find, they feature this Shuttle model that is fanless with a more powerful CPU vs the N3000s, but it's expensive!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WFX0UE6/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00WFX0UE6&linkCode=as2&tag=fanle0d-20&linkId=Y5HU2H3PCWVJMIEP
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Dave, they're seriously easy to build on your own. Half of the stereos on this forum have more complicated cableing to wire up. You probably know someone's kid that would do it for $50.
I'd do it for a pair of IC's :thumb: (and shipping)
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Dave, they're seriously easy to build on your own.
Yep. Very simple really. I can build a full CAD workstation with OS in less than a day. I built my CAPS in a couple of hours.
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I looked at photos of the Shuttle i5 slim PC, but couldn't see any details of processor cooling.
But they use Broadwell series processors (successor to Haswell), of which there are certain models of i5 and i7 that have a TDP of 15W, although other i5 and i7 Broadwell processors have TDPs of 28W, 47W and 65W.
People have often questioned the relentless release of new processors saying "how much computing power do we need", but the true value of this ongoing innovation of micro architecture (14nm for Broadwell vs 22nm for Haswell) for many is the trend for lower power consumption, and therefore lower heat and the promise of silent PCs.
Steve
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They are indeed simple to build, but not necessarily easy to troubleshoot, should the build not run perfectly on first try. That can sometimes require a bit more know-how. If you're a newb to computer building, I think it's best not to do it entirely alone....as with most things of technical complexity.
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I have little interest or knowledge of the subject, unless it's going to save me a lot of cash I'm not going to consider anything I can't just plug in and use. For the kind of computer I'm looking at it just doesn't seem worth it.
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Try the Fit line...mine is an Intense PC, also called a Mintbox if you get it with Linux Mint.
http://www.fit-pc.com (http://www.fit-pc.com)
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I use a Fit-PC as my fanless desktop model and am very happy with it.
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As happy as you will be with the MicroRendu?
Danny, I agree with you...its gonna sell really well.
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As happy as you will be with the MicroRendu?
Danny, I agree with you...its gonna sell really well.
Wrong thread? :wink:
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I decided I really need fanless so I will go with a ASRock Beebox N3000 ($129) with:
- Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB SSD - $195
- (2x) 4-GB DDR3 RAM (One is free with purchase of Beebox via NewEgg) - $30
- Samsung 2.5" 2 TB HDD - $110
- Windows 10... Any recs on exactly which version to go with? ~$120
Grand total is just under $600. It's a little cheaper and I get better parts vs a complete unit.
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Keep an eye on sites like slickdeals for discounts: here's a ssd:
http://slickdeals.net/f/8020055-500gb-samsung-850-evo-2-5-solid-state-drive-ssd-149-99-free-shipping
You often need to act fast before they sell out.
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^Yeah, missed that, but I need the mSATA version anyway... :thumb:
Win 10 Pro is being packaged with Acronis True Image backup software for $139, bringing the grand total to $604 shipped.
I'll pull the trigger pretty soon unless anyone has any other recommendations to consider.... :green:
Also, the fit-pc line looks nice but is more expensive. I think the N3000 CPU will work fine for my uses and the fact it only uses 4 watts is nice.
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Why go fanless if you are going to put a spinning hard drive in it?
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Why go fanless if you are going to put a spinning hard drive in it?
Fans are at least 20 dB, my HDDs are not audible unless your ear is up to the case. Some high speed HDDs can be noisy but the slow-spinning ones I have are not. I seriously doubt it'll be an issue, if it is I'll get rid of it or put in in a case and use it as an external that I'd only plug in when needed. I'm thinking a 500 GB SSD + 2 TB HDD will be all I'll need and external drives will just be used as backup drives.
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Got it. Some of the fans on the site below claim to be be below 20dB.
www.quietpcusa.com/
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Trigger pulled! :green:
For right at $800 I got the ASRock Beebox N3000, Samsung 850 Evo 500 GB SSD, Samsung 2TB HDD, 2x4GB RAM, LG 22" 16x9 HD Monitor w/IPS screen, Logitech MX800 Keyboard/Mouse combo, Win 10 Pro with Acronis True Image backup software.
Whew! I'm tired of spending time researching options but I think I got nicer parts vs going with the prebuilt option and saved some cash too. I scored the monitor for $109, and the Logitech kb/mouse for $90, I think I did pretty good there... they will be huge upgrades over using my laptop and 12 y/o mini-mouse.
Can't wait to hear the silence! :D
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Can't wait to hear the silence! :D
Almost silent. Those spinning HD's are a bit too noisy in my room. This is where a NAS is very nice.
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Almost silent. Those spinning HD's are a bit too noisy in my room. This is where a NAS is very nice.
yeah, we will see... the HDD is only about $100 so if I can't use it it won't be a huge loss. My room is sitting in the low 30 dBA range ambient...
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My room is sitting in the low 30 dBA range ambient...
You will hear it then.
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You will hear it then.
I don't want to hear it! (two meanings... :wink:)
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I don't want to hear it! (two meanings... ;) )
OK, you will be fine then. :P
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Ok, it's up and running. It takes about 10 min to load the memory and storage drives. I can't believe how small the mSATA SSDs are!
Win 10 Pro OEM was a tiny bit of a PITA as it does not provide the functionality to create a USB drive install, so I just did it online and typed in the key code that came with the CD. After that it took about 20 min to go through everything and install Win 10 pro on my computer.
If anyone else is doing this the retail version of Win 10 isn't available yet, it might be best to buy Win 7 and upgrade from there as the OEM license will not allow me to transfer the OS to another machine. If you get Win 7 and upgrade the price is the same as Win 10 OEM and you have more flexibility AFAIK. But Win 10 is packaged with Acronis True Image backup/HDD cloning software on NewEgg which is a nice bonus.
I'll update and let you know how it works once I get files and apps on it.
So far the HDD is unnoticeable as far as noise goes. :icon_twisted: I bought a slow-spinning HDD for this reason, I've had higher speed ones in the past that were loud. I figure with a 500 GB SSD the HDD can be slow as it'll just be used for file storage.
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Fans are at least 20 dB, my HDDs are not audible unless your ear is up to the case. Some high speed HDDs can be noisy but the slow-spinning ones I have are not. I seriously doubt it'll be an issue, if it is I'll get rid of it or put in in a case and use it as an external that I'd only plug in when needed. I'm thinking a 500 GB SSD + 2 TB HDD will be all I'll need and external drives will just be used as backup drives.
Fans and hard drives add electronic noise into the music.. Its worse to hear than simply hearing a fan working in the background. Here is what I got. Fan-less, and SSD,
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=126227)
Found here: https://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/fanless-tower.html (https://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/fanless-tower.html)
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I can't believe how small the mSATA SSDs are!
It's all relative, they look large compared to the M.2 SSDs ! ;)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=126230)
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In my opinion, fans are always bad. I bought a slim computer for my HT computer. The only fan it has is to cool the CPU. It was pretty quiet when I got it. Now, it's freaking loud and annoying. If you have things paused or you are at a very low noise/sound part of a movie/show, you can easily hear it, and it's 10+ feet away in an open cabinet.
On the other hand, to get something that's fanless can be very expensive. I paid more for my fanless case than I paid for my HT computer.
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It can become very expensive. It does not have to be VERY. But, keep in mind its to be the heart of your media center for hi-end listening. It can make or break all the effort you put into getting the best audio components for your needs.
It does not have to be VERY expensive. Mine cost s few hundred more than the souped up media PC's that were loaded down with hard drives and fans all over the place. Keep in mind. If done right. Its a long term investment. My case allows for easy access and swaps of hardware.
This is where I got mine. So quite! I was listening to a DVD the other night and could hear the unavoidable noise from the spinning DVD. To me that was loud! Gotten used to the quite. Its like a library.
Its just quiet as your audio equipment in idle is. Not to mention all the electrical ripple noise that gets mixed into the audio signal when you have spinning fans and spinning hard drives. The PSU is also designed for low ripple. https://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/fanless-tower.html (https://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/fanless-tower.html)
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I built my music server with a H5.S case from:
http://www.hd-plex.com/
Totally passive and totally silent.
Kevin T
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My solution is fairly inexpensive, the barebones Beebox is only $130 and Newegg gives you one 4 mB memory stick for free with purchase. The CPU only uses 4 watts but it's performance is fairly limited. If you want a powerful processor in a fanless case it'll cost a ton of cash. So far the Beebox N3000 does fine for most things, with fast RAM and SSD it can do a lot of things very quickly. If you want to crunch numbers in a huge spreadsheet, do photo rendering or gaming I'm sure it would be a disappointment but for a HTPC that also does mail, browsing, etc. it's more than enough.
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So far the Beebox N3000 does fine for most things, with fast RAM and SSD it can do a lot of things very quickly.
So you have already installed an OS and are using it? I have a friend that this may be perfect for. He would be using it for email, web browsing, YouTube and Netflix streaming, iTunes, iPhone sync and Picasa.
Several other features it has are desirable beyond silent operation, including fast charging USB Type C port and 802.11ac WiFi hotspot available in sleep (?) mode (he doesn't have a WiFi router and would probably only use it for iPhone WiFi access).
I had read that there were some challenges installing an OS using USB keyboard, mouse, DVD drive as the USB 3.0 ports did not work after BIOS handed over to Windows installation. Was this just a Windows 7 problem? Which OS did you install and with what media and method?
Thanks!
Steve
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A couple of nice features makes the Beebox the one to get imo... the type-C USB port, 2 HDMI + Display Port outs, dual channel RAM and ability to use a SSD + a normal 2.5" HDD.
I was using a Logitech wireless USB KB + Mouse, no issues at all.
See my post at the bottom of pg 2 for your other questions... it's hard to say what the best way to go with the OS right now is. Seems like Win 10 OEM or Win 7 then get the upgrade.
edit: I have not made the transition to this being my main computer yet, I am copying files and preparing to do a clean install of Win10 from the free upgrade on my laptop. I can't wait to stop using this laptop though... When I get some time using the Beebox as my main computer I'll report back. But I'm not a demanding user, I'm not a huge stickler on video quality and I use a Sony HAP to play music.
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Dave - curious to hear how you like the computer so far.
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Great so far, no complaints. For what I use it for the slower CPU isn't noticeable most of the time. It automatically doubles clock speed when needed to 2 GHz and the SSD is very fast. It has no problem playing 1080P video and Windows 10 seems fine after having 7 on my last computer.
The lack of fan is AWESOME! :green:
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The lack of fan is AWESOME! :green:
There goes another fanless fan! :thumb:
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Thanks for the update! I have started to look into another low-power computer solution as well - fan less is nice. Not in a hurry so will start looking for deals.
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Well, I just got an error message.... disc read fail during boot... PC is down :icon_frown:
The setup menus work so it looks like I need to make a bootable USB drive and see if the SSD that it normally boots from is operational? Any advice?