All that glitters is not Copper!

*Scotty* · « **on:** 21 Nov 2010, 12:37 am »

So far all RCA jacks advertised on eBay as Pure Copper construction with gold plating have been made of Brass with a gold plating. With the exception of the case where the jack was made of zinc with gold plating.
All RCA plugs advertised as made of Pure Red Copper have been made of entirely of brass with copper plating on the center pin and the body.
Obviously the prices on these items would be very attractive if they were as advertised. However as they are actually made of brass you are paying a premium price for a very ordinary brass product. RCA plugs and jacks advertised as made of brass sell for a much lower price commensurate with their build quality.
For specific product descriptions where the item is not as advertised please PM me.
Scotty

JohnR · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 07:55 am »

Just remind me - why do you want copper plugs?

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 01:31 pm »

Pure copper plugges would be way too soft and easily deformed. Most brass alloys are 40-60% copper anyway.

Wayner

*Scotty* · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 07:45 pm »

Copper has substantially better conductivity than brass. Brass is used for RCA jacks and plugs because it is inexpensive and the most easily machined metal,not because it has any particular sonic merit. Copper isn't used because it is more expensive and more difficult to machine in its purest form. When copper is alloyed with the element Tellurium its machinability is greatly improved,to a rating of 85 when compared to Alloy 360 FC Brass at 100.[/] A tellurium-copper alloy can have as high as 90% of the conductivity of pure copper. As I have gradually lowered the number of brass connections in the signal path the sound has become clearer and less grungy. One only has to examine copper split-bolt connectors to know that copper is not too soft to use for RCA connectors.
Scotty

JakeJ · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 08:45 pm »

100% with *Scotty* on this one. I also have been eliminating brass from my system a bit at a time over the past few years and it does make an audible difference.

A couple of my favs are the Cardas binding posts and most of the Audio Note connectors are milled from tellurium copper and very heavily plated with pure silver.

Wayner · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 09:21 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 21 Nov 2010, 07:45 pm

Copper has substantially better conductivity than brass. Brass is used for RCA jacks and plugs because it is inexpensive and the most easily machined metal,not because it has any particular sonic merit. Copper isn't used because it is more expensive and more difficult to machine in its purest form. When copper is alloyed with the element Tellurium its machinability is greatly improved,to a rating of 85 when compared to Alloy 360 FC Brass at 100.[/] A tellurium-copper alloy can have as high as 90% of the conductivity of pure copper. As I have gradually lowered the number of brass connections in the signal path the sound has become clearer and less grungy. One only has to examine copper split-bolt connectors to know that copper is not too soft to use for RCA connectors.
Scotty

Let's get a couple of things straight. Brass is used in connectors, because it's harder then pure copper and is more stable. It machines to the tolerances needed for the plugs. It is easier to machine. Pure copper is as soft as butter. If you like other alloys, then whatever, I'm just telling you why most connectors are made out of brass. Because it is conductivity is less then pure copper, most connectors (if not all) are gold plated to make up for the conductivity loss.

Wayner

srb · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 09:31 pm »

In the pursuit of truth and "getting things straight", gold plating does not make up for conductivity loss, but is used instead to prevent surface oxidation. The thickness of gold plating varies, but is usually measured in microns and conducts only a very small portion of the current flow through a connector.

Steve

*Scotty* · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Nov 2010, 10:05 pm »

My thread topic was concerned with the misrepresentation of RCA connectors labeled as made of pure copper on eBay and not with the machinability of pure copper.
It was only intended as a heads up for those who like to roll their own ICs and DIY their gear.
Scotty

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 02:15 am »

Quote from: srb on 21 Nov 2010, 09:31 pm

In the pursuit of truth and "getting things straight", gold plating does not make up for conductivity loss, but is used instead to prevent surface oxidation. The thickness of gold plating varies, but is usually measured in microns and conducts only a very small portion of the current flow through a connector.

Steve

Brass, by nature, has it's own self lubrication and is not prone to oxidation, because it is naturally oily, unlike copper, that will oxidize very quickly.

Hense, the trade off in design. Copper is a better conductor, but by itself will degrade and cause contact problems, if left un-plated. Brass has less conductivity, but has better corrosion resistance and is a more stable material. Gold plating does improve the conductivity, but does not bring it to the level of pure copper. I would rather have the brass fitting, with gold plating.

Wayner

JakeJ · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 05:32 am »

Really? The only "oily" brass I have ever encountered is sintered brass (ie. brass that is impregnated with lubricant). Pure solid brass doesn't have any lubricants in it that I am aware of.

JohnR · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 06:13 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 21 Nov 2010, 07:45 pm

When copper is alloyed with the element Tellurium its machinability is greatly improved,to a rating of 85 when compared to Alloy 360 FC Brass at 100.[/] A tellurium-copper alloy can have as high as 90% of the conductivity of pure copper.

Hi, so you're looking for Tellurium-copper (alloy) connectors, not pure copper?

wushuliu · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 04:39 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 21 Nov 2010, 12:37 am

So far all RCA jacks advertised on eBay as Pure Copper construction with gold plating have been made of Brass with a gold plating. With the exception of the case where the jack was made of zinc with gold plating.
All RCA plugs advertised as made of Pure Red Copper have been made of entirely of brass with copper plating on the center pin and the body.
Obviously the prices on these items would be very attractive if they were as advertised. However as they are actually made of brass you are paying a premium price for a very ordinary brass product. RCA plugs and jacks advertised as made of brass sell for a much lower price commensurate with their build quality.
For specific product descriptions where the item is not as advertised please PM me.
Scotty

Scotty have you tried these guys?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-HIGH-END-SILVER-AUDIO-PLUGS-/200532318552?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb0a85958#ht_855wt_1135

I'm sure they're probably bogus as well, but they go to greater lengths than the rest to say otherwise. I got some the other day, but haven't really tried them out. The silver plating seems thick with a dull matte finish.

Mike B. · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 04:49 pm »

Brass is a bit cheaper and holds up much better to use than copper. That is no excuse for claiming copper construction and then discovering it is brass. Much of the sonic character associated with connectors can be attributed to the plate that is applied to the surface IMO.

JakeJ · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 04:53 pm »

Those do look nice.

Yo *Scotty*,

Just curious how you discovered the bulk of the connectors you've tried from eBay are made of brass? Did the plating wear off prematurely? Did you just decide to cut one in half to see the cross-sectional area and find that they are brass? Were there audible cues that brought about the discovery?

I myself haven't tried any connectors off of eBay, I have always sourced brand-name products from the usual suspects.

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 04:58 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 22 Nov 2010, 05:32 am

Really? The only "oily" brass I have ever encountered is sintered brass (ie. brass that is impregnated with lubricant). Pure solid brass doesn't have any lubricants in it that I am aware of.

Well, Jake, I've been in manufacturing for about 35 years, and I know my metals fairly well. One of the reasons that brass and it's cousin Bronze are used so much in marine applications is it's natual resistance to salt water corrosion. If you've ever work with any brass in a machine shop, you will soon notice your hands have something on them.

Wayner

Wayner · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 05:05 pm »

We used Beryllium copper for our floodlights that were used to light the Space shuttle launching pad. This is a very exotic copper alloy, rich in copper, but also very machinable and corrosion resistant.

There are better choices then brass, this I will agree with you, but brass (plated) does get the job done and it is economical to use.

Perhaps someone needs to machine up some RCAs with Beryllium.

Wayner

*Scotty* · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 05:45 pm »

I will probably have to settle for Tellerium-Copper due to the aforementioned machinability problems that pure copper has. Beryllium copper alloy would be my last choice for a connector as it is lucky to have 20% of the conductivity of pure copper and can be as low as 10%.
JakeJ,some friends of mine had already purchased connectors that turned out to be brass that were advertised as made of copper from eBay. I tested the center pin and the body by removing a small amount of the plating with a jewelers file and found brass underneath.
wushuliu,those plugs do look nice but I am not biting this time around. I hope they pass the file test.
Scotty

mhconley · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Nov 2010, 06:59 pm »

Quote from: wushuliu on 22 Nov 2010, 04:39 pm

Scotty have you tried these guys?:

http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-HIGH-END-SILVER-AUDIO-PLUGS-/200532318552?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb0a85958#ht_855wt_1135

I'm sure they're probably bogus as well, but they go to greater lengths than the rest to say otherwise. I got some the other day, but haven't really tried them out. The silver plating seems thick with a dull matte finish.

Nice looking connectors. They're sold out of FL in the USA. He mentions they are manufactured by Customatik Inc. Google searches on Customatik Inc. show it's a metal and fabicated metal product manufacturer incorporated by Igor Yudashkin at 1412 NW 179th Ave., Pembroke Pines, FL 33082. Google that address and you'll see it's a private residence.

I wonder where the RCA's are really made, by whom and out of what materials?

Martin

EDIT: Looks like they could actually be copper - check out this other auction by the same seller: http://cgi.ebay.com/Copper-Powder-99-999-purity-isotope-copper-powder-/110575689221

rollo · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 05:15 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 21 Nov 2010, 08:45 pm

100% with *Scotty* on this one. I also have been eliminating brass from my system a bit at a time over the past few years and it does make an audible difference.

A couple of my favs are the Cardas binding posts and most of the Audio Note connectors are milled from tellurium copper and very heavily plated with pure silver.

Recently replaced the RCAs on my amp with Audio Note. I agree about the clarity and grain gone. The originals were Chinese WBT fakes. The speaker binding posts are next up which will be AN as well. BTW are not Vampire RCAs copper ?

charles

Phil A · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Nov 2010, 05:21 pm »

Interesting - if one goes to the FL website, it shows the company as inactive? http://ccfcorp.dos.state.fl.us/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFIL&inq_doc_number=P02000071106&inq_came_from=NAMFWD&cor_web_names_seq_number=0000&names_name_ind=N&names_cor_number=&names_name_seq=&names_name_ind=&names_comp_name=CUSTOMATIK&names_filing_type=