[some young guy]

Well, I just received a call from Honda America. They told me that they will stand behind the dealership. They say that since the vehicle has been seen multiple times for this same problem, by both the dealership's mechanics as well as a Honda official and they haven't been able to duplicate it, they won't do anything further until I can duplicate it for them. They told me that they replaced the parts in the seat as a "courtesy" to me. So now I guess I'm on my own...  When I tried to talk to someone else about it, I was told that the person I was talking to was as high as I could go.

[bpape]

Well, that pretty well bites the big one.
 

[James Romeyn]

One word: V-I-D-E-O...make sure the same continuous video includes the local newspaper in the car w/ a close up indicating the date on same paper.  That may help your case.  

In Honda's defense the sum total physical evidence of the existence of the alleged symptom is apparently nothing.  This is purely civil & nothing else.  In a civil case, minus physical evidence of any kind (this case) you got pretty much nothin'.  In a civil legal case your sum total evidence is testimony only.  Honda's sum total defense/refutation would be they can not be held accountable to eliminate a non-existent (to them) symptom.  If civil law was held to the standard of testimony only, such as in your case, there would be no such thing as an automotive industry, for obvious reasons.  Each & every car owner would be invited to make lemon law claims after they tired of their vehicle & would be granted a new free car...leading to no more auto industry.  For this reason, w/ all due respect for those who will/may disagree, Honda's position is really the only proper one.             

Honda's statement that the prior repairs were a courtesy is 100% accurate.

[Bob in St. Louis]

That's bullshit. 
I've NEVER heard of a manufacturer dropping a customer like that. ESPECIALLY within a warranty period. Too many times I've seen the manufacturer I work for bend over backwards in the interest of customer service to resolve issues like this.

This is a 100% true statement:

Honda's statement that the prior repairs were a courtesy is 100% accurate.

Guessing on what part to replace is generally frowned upon by a manufacturer (we are spending their money after all). BUT they realise that "us guys" down here in the trenches sometimes use that as 'plan B' when we've run out of options. It's all in the interest of making happy customers. We don't make enough money on warranty repairs to do it for any other reason. We aren't getting rich making shotgun repairs. But when these phantom glitches crop up we have no other choice than to make an educated guess on what the problem component is.

That's a shame Scott. From where I sit, you're choices are limited to:
(in no particular order)
- Deal with it.
- Sell the car.
- Go "full boat" with video evidence. Possibly involving legal action.

Sorry man. I certainly didn't see this coming. The level of respect I have for Honda has diminished greatly over this.

Bob

[James Romeyn]

Bob
W/ all due respect, & I trully mean this:

The policy would appear to require one of two paths, no more, no less.

1. Continue to perform repairs based on verbal reports only.
2. Require physical evidence.

If #1, there could be no legal excuse for anyone (dealer or Honda) to make subjective evaluation of the validity of the verbal claim.  The legal policy could be only: A verbal report is/was made, period.

As soon as ANYONE got subjective as the to validity of the verbal report, the legal cause for such is absolutely always going to be challenged (succesfully) when the answer is "no: claim rejected".

Why?  Because it is physically impossible for anyone to come to such a claim fully & totally objectively.  As soon as someone walks in w/ (fill in any potential descriptor), they may have their claim tossed based on subjective evaluation of the claimant.

As soon as that happens, the rejected claim is tossed out in court (claimant claims, wrongly or rightly, that their claim was rejected because of ______________ some personality conflict w/ the dealer or Honda).

Honda performed some repairs earlier as a courtesy, but has drawn the line now lacking physical evidence.  Can't see what is possibly wrong w/ Honda refusing to spend money that every future Honda owner will be charged (I own two Hondas) for apparently (to Honda) non-existent symptoms.

OTOH you are the guy w/ service employee experience so I'm very curious to hear your reply.   
 

[bpape]

Look at it from the point of view of the customer and from the potential damage to the reputation of Honda instead of always looking at it from a lawyer's perspective.  There is a problem.  They haven't found it.  They haven't exhausted parts that could be the issue.  They're giving up.  Total that up to BAD customer service, a lost customer, bad word of mouth, etc. 

Not everything is about litigation. 

Bryan

[Bob in St. Louis]

OTOH you are the guy w/ service employee experience so I'm very curious to hear your reply.   

Well, that works out pretty well.....cause I've got a reply. AND.....W/ all due respect, & I truly mean this:

**** Cover the children's eyes.**** 

That's a classic case of good ol' fashion spineless chicken shit cop-out as far as I'm concerned. You bet your ass future customers are going to pay for it. Call it research and development. Vehicle manufacturers to too "F-ing" lazy to do the R/D before they build this bullshit. The customer is the guinea pig. You buy a new car, you're paying for the R/D anyway. Doesn't matter WHO DID the R/D. It could be a fellow in Japan on a test site, or your grandma who's 2008 is "F-ed" up AGAIN. You WILL pay for R/D one way or another.


I've NEVER worked for a company that dropped a customer this fast. AND.... If one of the guys in my shop gave up this fast I'd tell him he's a lazy "F" and needs to get back to work or go home.

Side note: The story I gave a while back about our customer who's been here eight times for the same problem in less than 9000 miles......made an appointment for this afternoon for his TENTH time. General Motors is sending the tech rep out AGAIN.
Beat that Honda. 


Bob - Diligent

[bpape]

Hey Bob,

Stop being so damned politically correct and just say what you think, will ya? 

Bryan

[Bob in St. Louis]

My epitaph will not say: "He was a double talking introverted liar". 

[JeffB]

I found a thread on hondapilot.org with a similar problem perhaps.
The seat seems to slip though as opposed to move on its own.
The guy is also having dealer issues getting it resolved.

http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/showthread/t-19824.html

[ohenry]

I think Honda's "requiring proof" stance is lame.  Do they really think that a customer would dream this crap up because they enjoy the logistics of leaving their car at the dealership?  A customer with this type of issue doesn't stand to be unjustly enriched in any way, so there is no motivation to fake a claim.

Honda's response perfectly fits the modern-day bureaucratic template.

[AB]

Münchhausen's Syndrome by Proxy might be relevant.  You know, just riffing on what Honda HQ might be thinking.

 

[ohenry]

Münchhausen's Syndrome by Proxy might be relevant.  You know, just riffing on what Honda HQ might be thinking.

 

 

All those shiny little wooden knobs have taken their toll on syg.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I think Honda's "requiring proof" stance is lame.  Do they really think that a customer would dream this crap up because they enjoy the logistics of leaving their car at the dealership?  A customer with this type of issue doesn't stand to be unjustly enriched in any way, so there is no motivation to fake a claim.

YES!
Finally. Somebody gets it. 
THANK YOU HENRY!

Hey Scott.....Do I have your ear?

Bob

[some young guy]

Münchhausen's Syndrome by Proxy might be relevant.  You know, just riffing on what Honda HQ might be thinking.

 

Trust me, I've got better things to do... and I couldn't care less what Honda HQ might be thinking. All I want is my car to be fixed and safe for me and my family. I have no way to film this and Honda wants nothing more to do with it anyway. I was a very big fan of Honda and was going to purchase another car from them next year. I'll be looking elsewhere now. With this kind of customer service, I think it's better to take my business to Subaru, Volkswagen etc. I've owned their vehicles in the past and never had these issues.

Bob, I appreciate your attitude and only wish your enthusiasm in dealing with customer problems was terribly infectious!

Henry, I totally agree with you.

[Bob in St. Louis]

When I said, "Do I have your ear", I meant I have another idea for you.
You game?

[some young guy]

When I said, "Do I have your ear", I meant I have another idea for you.
You game?

I'm all ears! Hell, there could be a free set of Thingamaknobs in it for you  aa

[Bob in St. Louis]

You trust me?

[some young guy]

You trust me?

No, but I don't trust myself.

[Bob in St. Louis]

OK.
Well,....can you follow instructions without asking "why"?