[rtate]

Actually I have been over to the Hawthorne form and the Decwares and Spud amps seem to be very popular over there.
I had been leaning away from flea amps in favour of some moderate power just to see if I really do hear the magic and then possibly move towards the low power stuff.
The Line Magnetic stuff seems reasonable and I had been looking at reviews that seem favourable and priced reasonably:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Line-magnetic-lm-216ia-a100-integrated-tube-amplifier-vacuum-tube-amplifier/1490648558.html
and
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Line-Magnetic-LM-518IA-845-Vacuum-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-Brand-New/32220459334.html
any opinions on these ?

[InfernoSTi]

Actually I have been over to the Hawthorne form and the Decwares and Spud amps seem to be very popular over there.
I had been leaning away from flea amps in favour of some moderate power just to see if I really do hear the magic and then possibly move towards the low power stuff.
The Line Magnetic stuff seems reasonable and I had been looking at reviews that seem favourable and priced reasonably:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Line-magnetic-lm-216ia-a100-integrated-tube-amplifier-vacuum-tube-amplifier/1490648558.html
and
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Line-Magnetic-LM-518IA-845-Vacuum-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-Brand-New/32220459334.html
any opinions on these ?

The second one is Class A SET so that will be the better choice.  But it is very expensive (compared to other options you are considering). 

The Decware and SPUD (and of course Bottlehead) suggestions are better fits with the Hawthorne's.  If you were going to be spending big money (i.e. over $1,000), I'd go with the Quicksilver mid monos recommended elsewhere.

The typology of the amp matters.  The first one you linked to appears to be Class A/B push-pull.  The Decware amps vary so I would recommend their SE84CKC or SE84CKCS.  The Quicksilver amps use a somewhat rare typology typically only seen in the McIntosh MC275 (unity coupled circuit).  SET and unity coupled are great typologies, while the issue with P-P amps has to do with crossover distortion (not harmonic distortion) and it is really hard to overcome.  This is why Nelson Pass works with Class A and why his SS amps sound so great!

Best,
John

P.S. I'm using the Hawthorne Audio Reference speakers with either (depending on which I have in the main rig) a Pass Labs XA-30.5 and a set of Quicksilver Silver 88 amps.  I have kept my Bottlehead Stereomore and Paramounts because they sound so good...I plan on setting up a Duet system as a second system with those as the main amps. 

[vortrex]

Actually I have been over to the Hawthorne form and the Decwares and Spud amps seem to be very popular over there.
I had been leaning away from flea amps in favour of some moderate power just to see if I really do hear the magic and then possibly move towards the low power stuff.
The Line Magnetic stuff seems reasonable and I had been looking at reviews that seem favourable and priced reasonably:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Line-magnetic-lm-216ia-a100-integrated-tube-amplifier-vacuum-tube-amplifier/1490648558.html
and
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Line-Magnetic-LM-518IA-845-Vacuum-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-Brand-New/32220459334.html
any opinions on these ?

I've had the Line Magnetic 218 and it's upgraded brother the 518.  Both are incredible amps with a very robust 22w.  Of course if you're in the US you cannot order those 220v versions off aliexpress.  These are not your typical Chinese made products.  I challenge any Made in the USA company to match their build quality and performance.

[mick wolfe]

I've had the Line Magnetic 218 and it's upgraded brother the 518.  Both are incredible amps with a very robust 22w.  Of course if you're in the US you cannot order those 220v versions off aliexpress.  These are not your typical Chinese made products.  I challenge any Made in the USA company to match their build quality and performance.

Totally agree. I've had the 218IA for over 2 years. Sonically superb and deceptively powerful for its 22 watt rating. Sounds more like 50-60 P-P tube watts or more. Build quality is excellent and the biasing set-up couldn't be more user friendly. Nice tube rolling possibilities as well, especially the driver tubes. ( 6V6 thru KT88) Have driven four or five different sets of speakers ranging from 86 db to 95 db with no problem.

[rollo]

   You migtht consider a tubed preamp instead. Since you own very different speakers an amp choice will haave tradeoffs with each speaker. The Hawthorns will benifit from a 2A3 or 300B amp and the others not. You may consider a more powerful amp however missing all the benefits of said design.
   The Dodd buffer as good as it is can be improved. Dodd is basically out now. So either a used Dodd or another. This way your existing amps can drive everything and the "tube" character is in place. If you do not want to deal with a battery powered preamp think Primaluna, AVA or vintage say Conrad Johnson.
   Is there a local Audio Club where you live ? if so contact them. I'm sure there is a tubed something they would bring over.


charles

[jtwrace]

I wouldn't buy used Dodd anything since service is non existent. 

[rollo]

   Jason the Dodd gear is still worth its weight. To date not one failur with the two I own. . Besides an easy circuit to mod or repair by any qualified tech. if anything ever goes wrong. Very simple circuit.
    Actually may become collectors items. They are that good. thumb:


charles

[jtwrace]

   Jason the Dodd gear is still worth its weight. To date not one failur with the two I own. . Besides an easy circuit to mod or repair by any qualified tech. if anything ever goes wrong. Very simple circuit.
    Actually may become collectors items. They are that good. thumb:


charles

Interesting, my buffer went back 3 times for service.  It was good but certainly not the end all.  That's for sure.  Collectors items?  Highly doubtful. 

[RDavidson]

You have two very different speakers, a less expensive low efficiency box speaker, and a high efficiency open baffle. 

I'd choose one to focus on, which I assume would be the more expensive, high efficiency Hawthornes and leave the GR's for secondary listening.  So you'll only need a few watts, which opens the door to SET's, many of which are within your price range.  One brand not mentioned so far in this thread is Decware.  You could even contact Darryl at Hawthorne to see what he recommends or just visit their message board to get ideas.  Doing this, and with the gear you already have, you could have two systems in the same room, just switch the source between them (that's exactly what I'm doing currently).

That's great advice. I'm actually doing the same, sortof. I have two different speakers I enjoy for their different aspects, but their designs and efficiencies are pretty far apart. I'm using a Wyred STP SE which has 4 pre-outs. I have a sub on one of the single ended outs. The two balanced outs are going to my two different amps (Pass XA30.5 and First Watt J2). I just flip the power switch on either amp (corresponding to the set of speakers I want to hear) to suit my mood or musical taste at the time. This sounds complex, but short of buying one set of REALLY expensive speakers that seems to do everything well, and one amp that also does everything well (also REALLY expensive), I think this approach may be less expensive and perhaps more fun.

[rtate]

I do have the Dodd tube buffer and have used it with my Hawthornes and Pass F5.
The sound is good but we all want to get to that next level.
And while I like the Hawthorne's ,they are probably not my last speakers. I like to build speakers and probably will find something new and different to build in the future.
That's kind of why I don't want to get "pidgeon holed" with the flea power stuff.
As far as the 2 separate set up idea goes ,I don't think I have enough room or the WAF to make that happen right now. My 24x14foot room doubles as a home theater on one end with my 2 channel rig at the other.

[rollo]

I do have the Dodd tube buffer and have used it with my Hawthornes and Pass F5.
The sound is good but we all want to get to that next level.
And while I like the Hawthorne's ,they are probably not my last speakers. I like to build speakers and probably will find something new and different to build in the future.
That's kind of why I don't want to get "pidgeon holed" with the flea power stuff.
As far as the 2 separate set up idea goes ,I don't think I have enough room or the WAF to make that happen right now. My 24x14foot room doubles as a home theater on one end with my 2 channel rig at the other.

   

   The buffer is well just a buffer to add tube flavor. An active linestage tubed will give you more gain  offering better dynamics and gestalt. Look into Response Audio preamp.
    Now that you mentioned the Hawthorns are not your last speaker. WAIT until you have that speaker. In the mean time experience what an active tubed preamp can offer.


charles

[RDavidson]

A buffer with volume control provides an active output stage, but without the input gain, and is not just a flavor enhancer. Buffered volume controls, like active line stages also largely avoid impedance matching issues.
Why add another gain stage via an active linestage, when most of the time it isn't needed? Source voltage is typically enough to directly drive an amp to full output. I don't understand the point of adding gain, just to have to back it off again via the volume pot. Personally, I feel that a good buffer with a volume control is doing much less alteration to the source signal than an active linestage. It's a simpler circuit. Simpler circuit = less stuff for the source signal to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. Yes, I said dodge twice.
I know there are folks who just prefer active linestages and that's totally cool. Variety is the spice of life. I just wanted to make it clear that a buffered linestage is not just a flavor maker. It has real purpose.
Note, as I stated earlier I have a Wyred STP SE. This is a passive linestage with a solidstate output buffer. It has zero gain, until I crank the volume WAY up beyond comfort. At that point the output gain stage engages, ie pushing more output voltage to the amp. It is quite the jack of all trades in affordable preamps, in my honest opinion. Guys like Nelson Pass and Stan Warren have been designing stuff like this for a long time.

[a.wayne]

Passive = Dead sound ,


I have always found  Active pre-amp gain stage gives better performance  compared to pure passive or  Active Buffer .........

[Freo-1]

If you want a very nice tube amp consider this AVA Ultra Valve amp or Prima Luna ProLogue amp-

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=250&Itemid=235


http://www.primaluna-usa.com/product-main/prologue-premium/prem-pwr


The AVA amp has a 30 day money back, no questions asked return policy and the best customer service in the business.  It is a sweet sounding amp with plenty of power at 35wpc. It think that your Pass preamp will be a good match for either of these amps.

Rogue also makes some nice gear.

Check this site out:

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm


They have a very good reputation, and the prices are pretty reasonable too.

[Quiet Earth]

I've had the Line Magnetic 218 and it's upgraded brother the 518.  Both are incredible amps with a very robust 22w.  Of course if you're in the US you cannot order those 220v versions off aliexpress.  These are not your typical Chinese made products.  I challenge any Made in the USA company to match their build quality and performance.

Seems like people flip this brand of amps frequently. You sold yours pretty quickly too. What was it that you didn't like about them not to keep them for more than 6 months?

[Quiet Earth]

The Quicksilver amps use a somewhat rare typology typically only seen in the McIntosh MC275 (unity coupled circuit).  SET and unity coupled are great typologies,

Are you saying that only the single ended Quicksilvers have a unique topology? Or all Quicksilvers? Can you elaborate?

The reason why I ask is because I think that Quicksilver makes a good push pull amp, but a dull and boring SET amp. The one I heard was a real yawner. (Single ended KT 88.) I have heard second hand that Mike doesn't like the single ended topology and the high voltages that are necessary to make it work scare him. I don't blame him. Anyway,  his specialty is push pull.

I always wanted to hear the Quicksilver Horn Mono amp. That seems like the one to get if you have a good preamp and moderately efficient speakers.

[Quiet Earth]

Personally, I feel that a good buffer with a volume control is doing much less alteration to the source signal than an active linestage. It's a simpler circuit.

Seems like an active buffer is not all that simpler than an active line stage. You still need a power supply and a transistor or tube to amplify the signal at unity gain. (In other words, a buffer is really just an active gain stage with a gain of 1.)

Also, I don't believe (anymore) that a source component has enough mojo to drive the typical amp and speaker in the same way that a good preamp does. I mean, it can drive it to a desired volume level, but not with the same peak dynamic range or slam factor that an active pre can. If you have a super high gain tube amp and something like Klipschorns,,, OK, maybe.

I think the OP should keep his power amp and get a killer tube preamp. Can always buy a tube amp down the road.

[Freo-1]

Passive = Dead sound ,


I have always found  Active pre-amp gain stage gives better performance  compared to pure passive or  Active Buffer .........

Agree.  This is one of the absolute best sounding active preamp stages I have come across yet....


 

[Freo-1]

Here is a link to the preamp:

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.de/2012/06/making-of-6ah4-line-stage-circuit.html

[Early B.]

Also, I don't believe (anymore) that a source component has enough mojo to drive the typical amp and speaker in the same way that a good preamp does. I mean, it can drive it to a desired volume level, but not with the same peak dynamic range or slam factor that an active pre can.

Yep. That's been my experience with passive preamps.