[rollo]

  Using a music server which is hard wired to a router for streaming and art work only. I use a router supplied by Fios. Would a different router make a sonic difference and why ? Why are routers better than another ?

charles

[audioengr]

If you want to improve your ethernet playback, the optimum thing to do is SOtM Switch with internal upgrade clock along with SOtM Ethernet cable with filter.  Makes a BIG difference.

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sotm-dcbl-cat7-lan-cable

https://sotm-usa.com/products/snh-10g?variant=21179555217487

[rollo]

  Thanks will take a look.

charles

[slash71]

If you want to improve your ethernet playback, the optimum thing to do is SOtM Switch with internal upgrade clock along with SOtM Ethernet cable with filter.  Makes a BIG difference.

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sotm-dcbl-cat7-lan-cable

https://sotm-usa.com/products/snh-10g?variant=21179555217487

What improvement on playback you have settled with these equipment..?

[genjamon]

The new Uptone Audio switch is just now being released. Looks more promising - and affordable too - than the SoTM products. It’s built from the ground up, rather than a repurposed and upgraded standard network switch which is what SoTM and others do.

[slash71]

  Using a music server which is hard wired to a router for streaming and art work only. I use a router supplied by Fios. Would a different router make a sonic difference and why ? Why are routers better than another ?

charles

Hi Charles,   switch and router don't change anything on the sound domain. Why ? because they don't modify the data source (your streaming files) and  the electrical ethernet signal is already galvanically protected side by side on  controllers / HOST standard devices (Switch/NIC) .. 
difference about network devices, router , wi-fi router , switch and so on , hold on protocols that they are able to manage; most of the consumer network devices use generic purpose processors and manages all the work on software side.  enterprise network devices use dedicated processor to do so , and relies on it to gain fast operation work..

hi-fi switch or router anyway don't exist , most of these companies use  netgear branded board to sell "audiophile" switch; they insert a regulated clock inside and nothing else ..   this is the dark side of the moon. Jitter, latency , packet loss exist in ethernet and analog signals but , don't care for the digital info (your streaming source files) carried on ..

[genjamon]

Wheeewwww, glad that’s settled! 

[slash71]

look forward .. a big change on local area networks  "Era" today is the "time sensitive networking" specifications . Devices with TSN capability  improve the resolution "stream" also for audio ,because gain the ability to carry on an deliver signal and  related information with very low latency and put , in a very basic scenario,  the time domain control to standard networks ..

cu

[audioengr]

What improvement on playback you have settled with these equipment..?

Improvements in clarity, focus and imaging.

[audioengr]

Hi Charles,   switch and router don't change anything on the sound domain. Why ? because they don't modify the data source (your streaming files) and  the electrical ethernet signal is already galvanically protected side by side on  controllers / HOST standard devices (Switch/NIC) .. 
difference about network devices, router , wi-fi router , switch and so on , hold on protocols that they are able to manage; most of the consumer network devices use generic purpose processors and manages all the work on software side.  enterprise network devices use dedicated processor to do so , and relies on it to gain fast operation work..

hi-fi switch or router anyway don't exist , most of these companies use  netgear branded board to sell "audiophile" switch; they insert a regulated clock inside and nothing else ..   this is the dark side of the moon. Jitter, latency , packet loss exist in ethernet and analog signals but , don't care for the digital info (your streaming source files) carried on ..

All misinformation.  These things do matter and many audiophile switches are new designs, like the SOtM.

I started by modding my own netgear router by improving the power delivery to the active devices inside and changing the SMPS to a fast LPS.  This did help, but not as much as an audiophile switch with a fast LPS.

I have experimented with multiple different switches and Ethernet cables as well as isolators and filters.  They all make an improvement if used in the right places, and cables in optimum lengths.

If you don't have a system that is resolving enough to hear the improvement, this might lead to down the garden path.

[rollo]

  Well I tell ya the split TWL 1.5mtr. USB cable just destroyed the Shunyata Venom USB in tonality and harmonics. Thanks Pete and Dave. One down more to go. Back to routers. I just changed out the BS power supply from my FIOS router and installed an iFi wall wart OM goodness. Wer what a linear power supply might do.
Thanks Steve I'm learning the streaming digital thingie. Still a dedicated transport/DAC kinda person. However willing to try.

charles

[Doublej]

What is a split TWL 1.5mtr. USB cable?

[rollo]

What is a split TWL 1.5mtr. USB cable?

  Triode Wire Labs USB with split lines. One for Data one for Power. I never though a USB cable could make a difference like that did. Killed the Shunyata Venom. Tonality and harmonic structure to lust after period. Highly recommended.

charles

[slash71]

All misinformation.  These things do matter and many audiophile switches are new designs, like the SOtM.

I started by modding my own netgear router by improving the power delivery to the active devices inside and changing the SMPS to a fast LPS.  This did help, but not as much as an audiophile switch with a fast LPS.

I have experimented with multiple different switches and Ethernet cables as well as isolators and filters.  They all make an improvement if used in the right places, and cables in optimum lengths.

If you don't have a system that is resolving enough to hear the improvement, this might lead to down the garden path.

yes yes, I'm mr. misinformation and I own a system that does not resolve enough  .. however call me when you will be able to improve the audio signals in the ethernet frame using a netgear powered "modded" switch , i will be happy to hear the differences and clean my dirty mind

[genjamon]

Yup, LPS’s matter on network equipment. I have my router and separate switch both on Uptone LPS 1.2’s. As your digital source quality improves, the network gear becomes more and more of the bottleneck. Bigger and bigger SQ leaps from network gear/power improvements come after you have that source server/endpoint tech really dialed in. 

The custom switch options out there likely take things to a whole other level.

But I wouldn’t recommend any of this stuff if you’re still running your files from a Mac Mini or from a laptop, or from a bone stock NUC. Better to invest first in audiophile-grade computer or dedicated streamer solution first. Network upgrades second. Though I might be wrong about that. I guess it would be worth a bit of comparison once I have the EtherRegen in place - then go back to a basic computer as source and see.

[slash71]

Yup, LPS’s matter on network equipment. I have my router and separate switch both on Uptone LPS 1.2’s. As your digital source quality improves, the network gear becomes more and more of the bottleneck. Bigger and bigger SQ leaps from network gear/power improvements come after you have that source server/endpoint tech really dialed in. 

The custom switch options out there likely take things to a whole other level.

this is your mantra .. ok ok. If you hear the difference I'm impressed for level improvement with a network gear LPS powered,  nothing else?

but responses about Charles question's remain undebated for a long long time in this thread. I'm sure because (this is a closed circle) I'm the disinforMan  .. bye

[genjamon]

Although it would be painful for you, given your preconceived notions, you could spend some time over at Audiophile Style forum to learn more about how audible many people find these kinds of changes.

[slash71]

and many people not... but this isn't a religious war.

thanks for invitation on the Audiophile Style forum , what is the features audiophile switch / router does have to change the  clarity, focus and imaging of sound ?

or, in other hands, if my switch/router is a bottleneck for all of these sound features,  is a bottleneck  also for my other data ?

also my network provider is a bottleneck for audio ?  and Qobuz or Tidal use any audiophile gears to provide our music path ?

this is the SATA Audiophile interface debate ..  an old story that ended worse for an audio journalist 

[ketcham]

This topic has been my main focus in recent weeks.  I have learned a ton and my research and discovery mirrors Steve Nugent's.   The difference was very significant.  Depending on what I did, the presentation of the music can be harmed or improved.  To dismiss your network out of hat is not advised. 

Charles, if you wish to discuss this off forum, PM me.

SOtM commands my respect in this industry and their products have great price to value in my estimation.  Depending on each individual application, other manufacturer routers may be better and are more expensive.

[paul79]

In my system, the network was an obvious bottleneck, and I believe still could be improved. For me, it was clearly hindering the performance of my streaming and my file based playback before I paid attention to it. The difference the now what I would call well configured network made to my system was absolutely huge IMO. It is the beginning, and the end, it seems in my system, of which I believe to be resolving.

An open mind discovers. I would encourage anyone that has their digital rig connected to the internet in any way, to optimize it to the fullest if you are able. audioengr, as well as ketcham are excellent resources for this information.