AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: headshrinker2 on 12 May 2011, 03:03 pm
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Greetings. After enjoying the BDA-1 in my system, I am considering moving towards an all Bryston system. After inquiring about my room, music preferences and power needs, James recommended that I consider a B100 SST integrated. I'm primarily a jazz/vocal/classical/instrumental kind of guy. Some pop and funk, but not a rocker. I don't tend to listen at loud volumes.
What Bryston separate pre-amp/amp configurations would be logical upgrades to the B100? As you might guess, I wouldn't be interested in a "lateral" upgrade. I would only consider separates if it offered a significant improvement in SQ.
Thanks.
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The B100 is a BP16 preamp and 2B SST power amp in one box. A whorthwhile upgrade really depends on your finances primarily. After that, it depends on how much current your speakers need. I'd say power amp wise, the 4BSST would be the minimum upgrade to make it worth while. More likely, the 7BSST would be a serious (relatively speaking) improvement IMO.
I'd go with a power amp and use the B100 as a preamp first, then get a BP-26 when funds recover if I was in your shoes. It's fun spending other people's money!
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Thanks Stu. Appreciate the reply. Any recommendations for used older pre/amp combinations that would better the B100 SST?
My current speakers, Totem Arros, are recommended by company to be driven by 20-80 W.
Also, which guy are you in your profile pic?
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The guys in my pic, from left to right are Kip Dynamite, Napoleon Dynamite, and Uncle Rico. I guess I'm more Uncle Rico than anyone else. But in all seriousness...
I think James is right on with the B100 suggestion. The Arros are great speakers. They're honestly one of my favorite speakers, regardless of price. The Arros are an odd speaker in that they need very stable power, as they're a difficult load, but they're somewhat easily overdriven by too much power. It's not easy finding an amp that'll be stable into difficult loads, yet not be monstrous in power. The B100 is the perfect match IMO. I've heard stronger amps overdrive the Arros, and it's not a good thing. The woofer hits the basket and makes an odd sound. Dealers say it's not going to damage the speaker due to design, but I'd still be careful.
I don't think the BP-16 and 2B SST are much better than the B100, if they're truly better at all. Certainly not worth the extra cash IMO, but everyone's finances are different.
I think the B60 also does a great job with the Arros, but the B100 does it better. The price justifies the difference IMO.
If you're hung up on seperates, I think a speaker change is in order. Move up to Totems that can handle the extra power, or a different brand that can. The Arros are an odd speaker. I love them, but they've got their quirks, hence why I don't own them.
There are other brands that'll pair up well with them, I just prefer Bryston with them over anything else I've heard. That's not a brand loyalty thing, just a synergy thing to my ears.
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The B100 should have all the power that you need for quite some time! I have heard nothing but good about that wonderful integrated amp!
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OK you Bryston gurus, how about B100 SST vs BP25 + 4BST? In the S/H market, both options could be found for similar moolah.
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Go for the B100, you will get what you are looking for!. I have the "baby" B60-R and it is all what I need and more. as long as you get Bryston gear, you can not go wrong. Nobody can beat Bryston. :thumb:
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@lanchile: thanks for the reply. You obviously really like your Bryson gear!
Before purchasing an integrated, I am trying to see if I can configure a superior configuration of S/H separates for a similar amount of money.
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headshrinker,
i'm not sure but IF it is possible to drive a second Bryston SST amp with the B100...maybe this configuration would be an upgrade for you?!? your speakers would need bi-amp terminals of course...
al.
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@lanchile: thanks for the reply. You obviously really like your Bryson gear!
Before purchasing an integrated, I am trying to see if I can configure a superior configuration of S/H separates for a similar amount of money.
Well, I can say I know a little about this electronic business, I used to work many years repairing: amps, Tvs, vcrs, DVD players, stereos etc. I also have build many amps including some from Nelson Pass. Can you go different?...Sure, you can! Can you go better?...I doubt it!!!. Beside quality these amps are build to last many, many, many, many years. Before I got my Bryston I had many good commercial amps like: Portal Panache,Adcom,Luxman(R117),Marantz (2252B),Sanyo Plus series,Arcam, Blue circle,McIntosh,Acurus and some other good ones that I do not remember now, but Bryston is the "pinnacle" in audio gear to me.
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I think the 4BST would be too much power for the Arros, and I don't think it would sound as good as the B100 sonically, even if it wasn't overdriving the Arros. The 4BST may sound better with speakers that the B100 would struggle with from a load demand aspect, but the Arros aren't going to do that.
The SST (which the B100 is) was a very good improvement over the ST IMO. There isn't an SST 2 designation in the B100.
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With the B100, if you want to add an amp, you could get a 2BSST 2 and use the B100's internal amp with the 2BSST and biamp.
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Before purchasing an integrated, I am trying to see if I can configure a superior configuration of S/H separates for a similar amount of money.
Hi : Amongst the older Bryston amps ( pre-SST ), people I know who really know their Bryston maintain that the lower- powered units ie: 3B ST (120 W into 8 ohms ) offered the "sweetest " sound so if you want to go with separates, you may find that in keeping with your prefered music and your current speakers (assuming that the Arros are keepers for you ). Can't speak to the pro's / cons of the Bryston preamps as I don't have enough experience with them - I use a tube preamp myself with my Brystons.
As to bi-amping, there's been a lot of discussion on AC on that topic and you may want to explore those threads to get a feel for whether or bi-amping is for you. I have run single stereo power amps, bi-amped horizontally (using the speakers' existing crossovers) as well as running mono-blocks ( my current set-up ) and FWIW I like what I'm doing now the best.
There are some interesting S/H Bryston possibilities available right now on some of the sites I just had a quick peek at like Canuck Audio Mart. Check it out !
D.D.
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Having heard and owned a range of Bryston amplifiers, in ST, SST and SST2 series, from 3B to 7B, I can say that that there is no such thing as too much power, and that going up in power offers far better improvement than going from ST to SST to SST2 with the same power. This is especially true if the speakers’ impedance and phase result in difficult load, in such case it can be said without exaggeration that lower powered amps sound abysmal when compared to more powerful ones. I have heard a number of so called “tube friendly” speakers, which in fact present a difficult load, with Bryston and other amps of various power, and more power always won. One of the most memorable experiences were a pair of Wilson Sophia 2, driven by a number of amps of different power, more power was better in every instance, the best being when driven by monoblocks of 1.2kW. Reason for mentioning this is to show how untrue some of those claims are.
For Arrows it would be exaggeration of course to go with hundreds of watts, however if there are plans to upgrade speakers later on, then it may make sense to spring for better amplification now.
If Arrows were to stay I would not bother with separates.
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Short answer, B100 is all you need.
Upgrade later with the D/A card and you have one of the most compact, versatile, underrated best sounding integrateds out there.
Had mine for 5 years.
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Having heard and owned a range of Bryston amplifiers, in ST, SST and SST2 series, from 3B to 7B, I can say that that there is no such thing as too much power, and that going up in power offers far better improvement than going from ST to SST to SST2 with the same power. This is especially true if the speakers’ impedance and phase result in difficult load, in such case it can be said without exaggeration that lower powered amps sound abysmal when compared to more powerful ones. I have heard a number of so called “tube friendly” speakers, which in fact present a difficult load, with Bryston and other amps of various power, and more power always won. One of the most memorable experiences were a pair of Wilson Sophia 2, driven by a number of amps of different power, more power was better in every instance, the best being when driven by monoblocks of 1.2kW. Reason for mentioning this is to show how untrue some of those claims are.
For Arrows it would be exaggeration of course to go with hundreds of watts, however if there are plans to upgrade speakers later on, then it may make sense to spring for better amplification now.
If Arrows were to stay I would not bother with separates.
:rock:
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My first Bryston purchase was a B100SST with internal DAC / MM phono in November 2009. It was *exactly* what I wanted at the time, the sound was superb and it fit my price range perfectly. In the middle of 2010, I picked up a 4BSST2 to drive my PMCs a little better. Was there an improvement? Yes... but it came at a cost. Towards the end of the year, I picked up a BP26 + BDA and sold the B100 to a friend [who is enjoying it as much as I did]. For the price, the B100 is value for the money and a very wise choice.
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Which PMCs do you have?
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Which PMCs do you have?
OB1i. I find they are a nice match with the system and the size of the room.
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I am currently running a 4BSST2 with a B100 as preamp and surround amplification. Having owned several B60's including the current SST model, I can tell you that there is a bigger difference going from the B60 to the B100 than there is moving up to the 4BSST2 from the B100's 2BSST section.
Having said that, where the 4BSST2 brings more than that B100 by itself, is in terms of dynamics and a greater depth and 3 dimensionality to the presentation. The B100 is certainly no slouch but pairing it's preamp section (BP16) with the 4BSST2 sounded better to me. I had a BP26 and a BP6 in my system for a time as well. Overall I actually liked the BP6 the best when driving the 4BSST2 as it sounded a bit smoother and more enjoyable. The BP26 provided greater detail, but the B6 was a bit easier to listen to, more musical would be my description.
The B100SST is a fantastic value, particularly on the used market, and I don't think you'd be disappointed. Later you could add more power if it's required and/or use the amp section with another amp to bi-amp.
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Seems everyone here agrees with the test of the B100 in Stereophile, in the test he found little difference in the sound adding a 4B SST to the B100. I seem to recall he mentioned maybe a slight increase in deep bass slam.
Anyway, like patrickm said, the room is the biggest concern here, do you have a big room the speakers must energize, then you might need a bigger amp, otherwise not. Of course there is a difference between what one might want, or need, if I had the money and the space for it I would probably also buy a 4B SST, but for me that would be total overkill I think.
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OB1i. I find they are a nice match with the system and the size of the room.
Cool. I'm pretty set on ATCs, but would mind hearing PMCs.
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I am currently running a 4BSST2 with a B100 as preamp and surround amplification. Having owned several B60's including the current SST model, I can tell you that there is a bigger difference going from the B60 to the B100 than there is moving up to the 4BSST2 from the B100's 2BSST section.
Having said that, where the 4BSST2 brings more than that B100 by itself, is in terms of dynamics and a greater depth and 3 dimensionality to the presentation. The B100 is certainly no slouch but pairing it's preamp section (BP16) with the 4BSST2 sounded better to me. I had a BP26 and a BP6 in my system for a time as well. Overall I actually liked the BP6 the best when driving the 4BSST2 as it sounded a bit smoother and more enjoyable. The BP26 provided greater detail, but the B6 was a bit easier to listen to, more musical would be my description.
The B100SST is a fantastic value, particularly on the used market, and I don't think you'd be disappointed. Later you could add more power if it's required and/or use the amp section with another amp to bi-amp.
Thanks for your words on the BP6/4B combo. Now wonder I like my BP6/4BSST so much!
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Here is a quote i found from James from 2003 with regards to peoples thoughts that one Bryston amp being better than another because it costs more or it is more/less powerful.
A helpful reminder to all the new folks to the Bryston forum and for those that think otherwise. :thumb:
All Bryston amplifiers have the same circuitry. "Fully Balanced Differential" inputs and "Fully Compllimentary"output stages. There is no better/best with Bryston - just choose the amount of power required.
james
Mark
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Here is a quote i found from James from 2003 with regards to peoples thoughts that one Bryston amp being better than another because it costs more or it is more/less powerful.
A helpful reminder to all the new folks to the Bryston forum and for those that think otherwise. :thumb:
Mark
Nice quote Mark! Thanks. :thumb:
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Here is a quote i found from James from 2003 with regards to peoples thoughts that one Bryston amp being better than another because it costs more or it is more/less powerful.
"All Bryston amplifiers have the same circuitry. "Fully Balanced Differential" inputs and "Fully Compllimentary"output stages. There is no better/best with Bryston - just choose the amount of power required."
james
A helpful reminder to all the new folks to the Bryston forum and for those that think otherwise. :thumb:
Mark
Yes but...
While there may be little or no difference between say, a 4BSST and a 3BSST other than output power, there will certainly be a difference between a 4B and a 4BSST and a 4BSST2 ( or so we've been led to believe... :wink: ) and there's gonna be a difference between a 7BSST2 with the old caps and tranny vs. the ones with the new caps and tranny. So it ain't quite that simple...
D.D.
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Cool. I'm pretty set on ATCs, but would mind hearing PMCs.
Which ATCs? I think I was telling you a while back that ATCs most likely be right up your alley.
ATCs need a ton of power and space to open up and work their magic. Once you've got them happy in those regards, they're nearly impossible to beat IMO.
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Which ATCs? I think I was telling you a while back that ATCs most likely be right up your alley.
ATCs need a ton of power and space to open up and work their magic. Once you've got them happy in those regards, they're nearly impossible to beat IMO.
http://flatearthaudio.com/?page_id=31
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Thanks very much for all the replies. I have a B100 SST on the way. I look forward to comparing the B100 SST to my current integrated, Naim XS.
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Vegasdave,
Haven't heard those ATCs. They look very interesting. Looking forward to hearing about them when you've got them up and running.
Headshrinker,
The Nait XS is a great integrated. The B100 is a bit different, but equally good IMO. Should be a very interesting head to head comparison.
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Vegasdave,
Haven't heard those ATCs. They look very interesting. Looking forward to hearing about them when you've got them up and running.
Headshrinker,
The Nait XS is a great integrated. The B100 is a bit different, but equally good IMO. Should be a very interesting head to head comparison.
Ok, cool. I will let you know. It's gonna be some time, however.
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Thanks very much for all the replies. I have a B100 SST on the way. I look forward to comparing the B100 SST to my current integrated, Naim XS.
Excellent choice! you will be very happy with your new B100.
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Thanks lanchille. I will know soon enough. The B100 has been shipped and is on it's way.
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I second the B100 option as one of the great VFM audio deals! If there is one audio equipment that has left a positive impression, it is the B100. When I am in pensive mood, my mind sometimes wanders to my days with the B100 and the beautiful music it made! The bass was glorious and the midrange, sublime!
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denjo, how am I supposed to patiently wait for the UPS guy after your post? Your fond musical memories are certainly a great endorsement of the B100. I'm a fool for sweet midrange....
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Cool. I'm pretty set on ATCs, but would mind hearing PMCs.
Having owned both ATC and PMC, I'd pick PMC everytime. PMCs are just plain awesome and a match a made in heaven for Bryston. The ATCs are ruthlessly revealing and dynamic as hell, but pretty much all lack the bass slam that makes me happy. And while the ATCs are more revealing and probably more accurate, the PMCs are way more fun and have the most "live" sound of any speaker I've ever owned. As you can see, love me some PMC.
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I'm with Jaxwired - Check out PMC, Vegas. You'll love the way your kind of tunes get rocked by a pair of those. I too loves me some PMC ! :thumb:
D.D.
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denjo, how am I supposed to patiently wait for the UPS guy after your post? Your fond musical memories are certainly a great endorsement of the B100. I'm a fool for sweet midrange....
Good things are worth waiting for headshrinker2! :)
Hope you got the remote headset as well! Its the best looking remote I have ever used!
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Having owned both ATC and PMC, I'd pick PMC everytime. PMCs are just plain awesome and a match a made in heaven for Bryston. The ATCs are ruthlessly revealing and dynamic as hell, but pretty much all lack the bass slam that makes me happy. And while the ATCs are more revealing and probably more accurate, the PMCs are way more fun and have the most "live" sound of any speaker I've ever owned. As you can see, love me some PMC.
Ok, which ATCs did you have.
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I'm with Jaxwired - Check out PMC, Vegas. You'll love the way your kind of tunes get rocked by a pair of those. I too loves me some PMC ! :thumb:
D.D.
Ok, I'll think about it. It appears that ATC gives you more for your money though.
And you can't beat that midrange unit as well.
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Ok, which ATCs did you have.
SCM 11s and SCM 19s. The 19s are huge stand mount speakers.
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Ah ok, but did you have the SCM 50s, 100s, and 150s? And which PMCs did you compare them too?
I dunno, I can't say I won't give PMC another chance, but I see them as an inferior product (compared to ATC and others) with a very high price tag. I wasn't too impressed while listening to them at CES.
No offense to PMC owners here.
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So, what is your impression of the Bryston?
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So, what is your impression of the Bryston?
yeah! I think is time to know if He liked the B100.
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I would like to know how he likes it as well. This may be a case where no newsisn't good news but I hope I am wrong.
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Consiering the odds he is probably busy listening, havent heard of many people who didnt like the Bryston transparency.
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Greetings Bryston folks,
Yes indeed, I've been doing lots of listening. Source components included:
(1) NAD 541 CDP (digital out)
(2) Apple TV(2)
(3) Bryston BDA-1
Audioquest Type 4 Speaker Cable.
Interconnects from BDA-1 to B100SST: Kimber Kable PBJ and Chord Cable Cobra Plus (both RCA-RCA)
The Bryston B100SST and the Naim XS/FC2x are both excellent integrated options. They definitely have different personalities. Ultimately, like most audio decisions, it comes down to personal preference.
The Bryston is a treat to listen to. As compared to the XS, I'd say the B100SST throws a deeper and wider soundstage, has a more transparent and neutral presentation, and has a more open and airy upper register of frequencies. Compared to the XS, lead vocals on the B100ST tend to be a bit smoother, laid back, and a bit behind the plane of the speaker. Overall, pleasant and non-fatiguing. The B100SST is definitely revealing enough to show almost every system change I tried (i.e. interconnect, speaker cable, power supply). Finally, I also found the B100SST handled complex orchestral pieces a bit better- easier to pick out individual instrument sections and less congested.
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Part II.
The Naim XS/FC2x, as compared to the B100SST, is somewhat more fun to listen to. While still warm and full-bodied, the Naim is bit more aggressive, a more up-front presentation. Most notably, the Naim combo excelled on rythymic material. At least to my ears, music with a groove was somehow more engaging. I've played percussion for many years (not my main gig)- the Naim got my feet moving.
While the Naim XS/FC2x and Bryston B100SST are both integrateds, I don't feel I am yet in a position to do any meaningful comparative listening. My Naim system uses all high-quality Naim interconnects and Naim speaker cabling. Naim + Totem is also a somewhat magic and synergistic combination. I auditioned the Bryston with quality, but fairly modest speaker cabling and interconnects. A trusted friend, and ex Bryston dealer, suggested that I have yet to hear what the Bryston is truly capable of (i.e. I should audition/invest in better cabling).
Othe differences: It's also worth noting that the Naim FC2x adds an external power supply for the pre-amp on the XS. And the Bryston has more power than the XS. In other words, this was not an apples to apples comparison.
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I am glad you like your Bryston B100. I will soon get my new B100 too. But for that I have to sell my B60 first. I do not want to sell it but, I need the "extra" money to pay for my new B100.
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I wish I had your ears, unfortunately I am younger than I will be but older than I once was so....
I havent invested a lot in cables, and besides, I use the dac in the B100.
My speaker cables are solid core installation cable, stiff, but can be bent around corners.
The B100 is the first amp I have had that makes me forget the equipment, before I was listening for flaws and focused on the equipment, now i just enjoy the music, hard to explain if you havent experienced it yourself.
Spotify Premium sounds terrific and is more or less all I need, ok, now I have said it, bring on the pepper.
(should I give the B100 one little slap over the fingers it would be that the digital feed in the B100 turns itself off when I turn on my tapedeck. The spike created in the powerline must be the culprit.)
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Niels,
Getting to the point when you enjoy the music- and not listen to the gear/system... a beautiful thing, indeed! I know that place. I achieved this with my Naim system for several years. Lots of pleasure, with no desire to upgrade.
The BDA-1 was the first piece of gear that "opened" my ears, and lead to a new sonic direction. I look forward to piecing together a balanced Bryston system as well. I'm not somebody who enjoys endless tweaking or upgrading. Once satisfaction is achieved, it's all about the tunes...
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P.S. I made my decision. My Naim gear is now listed on Audiogon. Know anybody who might like a minty Naim XS/FC2x? :)
After listening for the past 30 minutes to "Steps", by Pat Coil (a Sheffield Lab recording) I have made the right decision.
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Greetings,
I picked up a S/H BP25 at a good price. Considering S/H
(1) 4BST (around $1,500)
(2) 4BSST (around $3,000)
The SST worth the extra money, compared to the ST?
My minty S/H B100SST will be going on the market soon.
Thanks.
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Greetings,
I picked up a S/H BP25 at a good price. Considering S/H
(1) 4BST (around $1,500)
(2) 4BSST (around $3,000)
The SST worth the extra money, compared to the ST?
My minty S/H B100SST will be going on the market soon.
Thanks.
I've actually spoken with Bryston about the ST vs. SST, when I was considering the B100 to replace my 3B-ST (prior to me finally going with a BP6 and 4B-SST/2 combo). Sonically, you would be taking a step backwards by going with an ST vs. your current B100SST (which is essentially a BP16 + 2B-SST). The specs alone won't lie.
To take full advantage of the BP25 you should take the plunge with the SST. You may be able to get away with a 3B-SST and save some money if you don't need that extra power. The BP25 + 3B-SST will sound better than a BP25 + 4B-ST combo.
The BP25 with a 4B-ST will NOT outperform the B100SST (assuming you are not taxing the amplification).
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Soundgame,
Thanks very much for the reply and thoughts. Quite helpful.
I've actually spoken with Bryston about the ST vs. SST, when I was considering the B100 to replace my 3B-ST (prior to me finally going with a BP6 and 4B-SST/2 combo). Sonically, you would be taking a step backwards by going with an ST vs. your current B100SST (which is essentially a BP16 + 2B-SST). The specs alone won't lie.
To take full advantage of the BP25 you should take the plunge with the SST. You may be able to get away with a 3B-SST and save some money if you don't need that extra power. The BP25 + 3B-SST will sound better than a BP25 + 4B-ST combo.
The BP25 with a 4B-ST will NOT outperform the B100SST (assuming you are not taxing the amplification).
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Soundgame,
Thanks very much for the reply and thoughts. Quite helpful.
Glad to help - and let us know what you end up going with.
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There's some idiots out there who think the ST is better than SST or SST2. :rotflmao:
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3BSST vs. the 2BSST, is that noticeable? My B100 should have 100 watts, but spec sheet says 125.
I dont care about the watts though, rarely use more than 1.
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3BSST vs. the 2BSST, is that noticeable? My B100 should have 100 watts, but spec sheet says 125.
I dont care about the watts though, rarely use more than 1.
Unless you are driving the speaker hard or the speaker is a difficult load e.g. 4 ohm with some crazy drops, the 2BSST and 3BSST will sound virtually the same. More whats is usually tied to more amps which allows for greater dynamics. A B100SST vs. a bp6 + 2BSST will sound virtually the same - in fact the weak link would be the interconnect between the bp6 and the 2B-SST (but that also allows for customization / sound tailoring).
If you're going to a 3B-SST you may want to just splurge a little more and get a 4B-SST (twice the power and better resale - the 4B being Bryston's top selling amp).
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If you're going to a 3B-SST you may want to just splurge a little more and get a 4B-SST (twice the power and better resale - the 4B being Bryston's top selling amp).
I agree.
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Greetings all. My S/H B100SST sold pretty quickly on the used market. I got back what I paid for it, so I am content. I decided to pick up a 4BSST (on it's way) to go with the BP25.
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Great, enjoy the 4B-SST.
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Thanks GaryArthur,
I look forward to the music!
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Greetings all. My S/H B100SST sold pretty quickly on the used market. I got back what I paid for it, so I am content. I decided to pick up a 4BSST (on it's way) to go with the BP25.
A big congrats to you. I very much look forward to getting your impressions of what improvements the new pre/power offer over and above the B100SST, as I faced the same choice before going with a similar combination to you. Cheers!
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Greetings all. My S/H B100SST sold pretty quickly on the used market. I got back what I paid for it, so I am content. I decided to pick up a 4BSST (on it's way) to go with the BP25.
:thumb: Cool, enjoy.
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Thanks guys. I will definitely let you how things work out. I'm definitely excited. UPS man brought the BP25 today. The 4BSST seller has been slow on his shipping. Hopefully will be sent today. Trying to be patient....
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Thanks guys. I will definitely let you how things work out. I'm definitely excited. UPS man brought the BP25 today. The 4BSST seller has been slow on his shipping. Hopefully will be sent today. Trying to be patient....
I'm expecting you'll be hearing slam, slam and more slam when you get 'er all hooked up. It's sooo exciting.
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I'm expecting you'll be hearing slam, slam and more slam when you get 'er all hooked up. It's sooo exciting.
:rock:
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The 4BSST arrived today. Spent the past few hours doing some initial listening. I am absolutely thrilled! Going through many, many recordings with a giant smile on my face. I have a feeling I'm not going to be getting much sleep tonight :)
Tonight:
NAD451 CDP (analog out)
BP25 Preamp
B4SST
Totem Arro
(modest interconnects and speaker wire from AQ and Kimber)
Tomorrow I will add Apple TV(2), hires files from MBP, and BDA-1 to the equation!
I'm glad I managed to bring the 4BSST home from my office, unpack it, and put it on my audio rack without throwing my back out!
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So, don't keep us in expectation. How does it sound vs. the B100SST? Can you tell there's more headroom, given your listening habbits and speakers? I know your speakers don't demand too much power - so that will be interesting.
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So, don't keep us in expectation. How does it sound vs. the B100SST? Can you tell there's more headroom, given your listening habbits and speakers? I know your speakers don't demand too much power - so that will be interesting.
Yes do tell.....:-}
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Morning guys/gals,
I promise to report back on my new BP25/B4SST adventures as soon as I've had the chance to do a bit more listening. The short answer- no regrets upgrading from B100SST to these separates.
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Morning guys/gals,
I promise to report back on my new BP25/B4SST adventures as soon as I've had the chance to do a bit more listening. The short answer- no regrets upgrading from B100SST to these separates.
Waiting for the mini-review headshrinker2... :drool:
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Very pleased so far with my current system. It is not "finished" (whatever that means!), but rather a work in progress.
Bryston BP25 Pre
Bryston 4BSST
Bryston BDA-1 DAC
NAD C541 CDP
MacBook Pro (Pure Music software), toslink
Totem Arro Floorstanding
Mix of Kimber Hero XLR, AQ King Cobra XLR, Wireworld Starlight digital, and AQ Type 4 speaker wire
Stock power cords.
Wiremold Power Strip.
In general, I am finding the music to be very satisfying. As expected, the overall sound is neutral and transparent- but not lean. Bass is strong and well-controlled, without being overhyped. Indeed, no part of the frequency range seems pushed or enhanced. Vocal and acoustic instruments are quite realistic and full-bodied- but I wouldn't describe things as "warm". At times, I am wishing strings were just a touch warmer. Nice deep soundstage- can definitely get a sense of the room/hall on most recordings. System is easy to listen to for extended periods of time- my ears are not getting fatigued. I find the upper register to be harsh only on (familiar) recordings that started out that way.
I'm getting very good results from analogue out of NAD CDP, but really wonderful results from toslink/MacBook Pro/BDA-1. If you've never tried it, Pure Music is a definite upgrade from iTunes on the Mac. Red Book files, while just a touch noisy/hashy from the toslink, are extremely satifying. Hires files (e.g. hdtracks) are just siblime.
Things I am considering in the short run:
(1) upgrading my source. Either upgrading CDP, trying BDP-1, or investing in a good asynchronous USB converter for my MBP. Everything I have read suggests USB should be superior to toslink.
(2) auditioning some better IC's and speaker wire to see what they bring to the party. I'm going to let my ears decide on this issue.
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Very pleased so far with my current system. It is not "finished" (whatever that means!), but rather a work in progress.
Bryston BP25 Pre
Bryston 4BSST
Bryston BDA-1 DAC
NAD C541 CDP
MacBook Pro (Pure Music software), toslink
Totem Arro Floorstanding
Mix of Kimber Hero XLR, AQ King Cobra XLR, Wireworld Starlight digital, and AQ Type 4 speaker wire
Stock power cords.
Wiremold Power Strip.
In general, I am finding the music to be very satisfying. As expected, the overall sound is neutral and transparent- but not lean. Bass is strong and well-controlled, without being overhyped. Indeed, no part of the frequency range seems pushed or enhanced. Vocal and acoustic instruments are quite realistic and full-bodied- but I wouldn't describe things as "warm". At times, I am wishing strings were just a touch warmer. Nice deep soundstage- can definitely get a sense of the room/hall on most recordings. System is easy to listen to for extended periods of time- my ears are not getting fatigued. I find the upper register to be harsh only on (familiar) recordings that started out that way.
I'm getting very good results from analogue out of NAD CDP, but really wonderful results from toslink/MacBook Pro/BDA-1. If you've never tried it, Pure Music is a definite upgrade from iTunes on the Mac. Red Book files, while just a touch noisy/hashy from the toslink, are extremely satifying. Hires files (e.g. hdtracks) are just siblime.
Things I am considering in the short run:
(1) upgrading my source. Either upgrading CDP, trying BDP-1, or investing in a good asynchronous USB converter for my MBP. Everything I have read suggests USB should be superior to toslink.
(2) auditioning some better IC's and speaker wire to see what they bring to the party. I'm going to let my ears decide on this issue.
Glad you're enjoying the new gear but could you provide details on what the BP25 + 4B-SST has brought to the table that the B100SST did not? If you had to list the differences and quantify them, all else held equal, what has the change in amplification brought? Very interested in hearing from you on this.
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(part II)
I know some of you were looking for some direct comparison between B100SST integrated and Bryston separates. As I already posted, I have no regrets about this upgrade. To different degrees, many sonic aspects of the system are now improved. The B100SST is a great integrated, but I think I personally preferred the Naim XS integrated from my previous system. The Bryston separates, at least to my ears, outperform both integrated amps.
I did not get the chance to directly compare the integrated and separates at the same time with all things equal (i.e. same cabling, interconnects, balanced, source...ect). I greatly enjoyed the B100SST, but I found the Bryston separates just bring more to the party. Case in point, I'm listening to more music now... and staying up too late!
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(part II)
I know some of you were looking for some direct comparison between B100SST integrated and Bryston separates. As I already posted, I have no regrets about this upgrade. To different degrees, many sonic aspects of the system are now improved. The B100SST is a great integrated, but I think I personally preferred the Naim XS integrated from my previous system. The Bryston separates, at least to my ears, outperform both integrated amps.
I did not get the chance to directly compare the integrated and separates at the same time with all things equal (i.e. same cabling, interconnects, balanced, source...ect). I greatly enjoyed the B100SST, but I found the Bryston separates just bring more to the party. Case in point, I'm listening to more music now... and staying up too late!
Not to be hard on you headshrinker2 but though you have clearly indicated you prefer the Bryston separates - and you're listening to more music (all good things), for those who have not owned the integrateds vs. separates, you are in a prime place to help educate.
With your Arrow's are you hearing more details with the separates, is there more bass, is there more liquidity - more details on what you're hearing in your systems now vs. what you heard with the B100SST would be helpful.
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SoundGame,
Don't mind you pumping for more details at all! You already know from my previous post that I did not get to do a direct A/B comparison at the same time with all other variables being equal. So please keep that in mind.
To my ears, the Bryston separates bring the following advantages: more bass, better overall balance, more full-bodied sound, more dynamic range, smoother (but I wouldn't call it liquid) and less fatiguing highs, deeper soundstage with an overall increased sense of space/room. This is not a tonal characteristic, but I find the music-especially vocal and instrumental- to be more emotionally engaging.
Hope that helps!
Not to be hard on you headshrinker2 but though you have clearly indicated you prefer the Bryston separates - and you're listening to more music (all good things), for those who have not owned the integrateds vs. separates, you are in a prime place to help educate.
With your Arrow's are you hearing more details with the separates, is there more bass, is there more liquidity - more details on what you're hearing in your systems now vs. what you heard with the B100SST would be helpful.
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...To my ears, the Bryston separates bring the following advantages: more bass, better overall balance, more full-bodied sound, more dynamic range, smoother (but I wouldn't call it liquid) and less fatiguing highs, deeper soundstage with an overall increased sense of space/room. This is not a tonal characteristic, but I find the music-especially vocal and instrumental- to be more emotionally engaging...
It's very interesting that all this came accross with the Totem Arrows that only call for 20 - 80 W and are 4 ohms. Moving up in power delivery should give you things like larger soundstage and great dynamics, so those are easy to understand, when your speakers call for it. Again, it's interesting that the Arrow's display that - very interesting in fact. The fact that separates are in two-boxes and linked by an IC will also add differences - which it appears in your case are on the positive side of things. Definitely the separate route allows you to customize and or tweak/tailor the sound by swapping interconnects - especially since I find the Bryston gear is very revealling of any change to the system - even minor ones.
Thanks for the additional information - it's what I needed. It also helps me rationalize my decision, after the fact, of spending the additional money to go the separates route (BP6+4BSST2) over the integrated route B100 SST.
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SoundGame,
Every change in interconnect (analogue and digital) and speaker wire has made a difference in the separates system. A blessing and a curse! Time like these really make me wish I had a local Bryston dealer who could offer some sage advice (and home demo). I really like the direction my system is headed, but I haven't "arrived" yet.
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SoundGame,
Every change in interconnect (analogue and digital) and speaker wire has made a difference in the separates system. A blessing and a curse! Time like these really make me wish I had a local Bryston dealer who could offer some sage advice (and home demo). I really like the direction my system is headed, but I haven't "arrived" yet.
For your main IC between the pre/pwr you might just want to go Bryston XLR - that way you are virtually guaranteed optimization of the linear sound that the Bryston's have been engineered to produce. Your source connections and speaker cables will be a continual area of change, until you find your resting point.
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SoundGame,
I'd love to compare Bryston IC's and speaker wire to both similarly priced products from other companies, but also to more expensive products. With some companies (e.g. Naim), speaker wire and IC's are considered a standard part of an overall system. it's not clear at all to me that Bryston takes this approach with their IC's.
We are all familiar with the popular debates on internet forums about stuff like this. I let my own ears and wallet decide.
Once I have my sources more firmly in place (ie. an upgraded CDP, BDP-1, or my MBP with a better interface), I plan on listening for myself. I love the neutrality of my system, but I wouldn't mind a touch more richness and warmth.
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SoundGame,
I'd love to compare Bryston IC's and speaker wire to both similarly priced products from other companies, but also to more expensive products. With some companies (e.g. Naim), speaker wire and IC's are considered a standard part of an overall system. it's not clear at all to me that Bryston takes this approach with their IC's.
We are all familiar with the popular debates on internet forums about stuff like this. I let my own ears and wallet decide.
Once I have my sources more firmly in place (ie. an upgraded CDP, BDP-1, or my MBP with a better interface), I plan on listening for myself. I love the neutrality of my system, but I wouldn't mind a touch more richness and warmth.
If you're looking for a little more richness and warmth with some organic texture - you may want to explore the Cardas and VdH product lines - though they are quite expensive.
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Thanks very much for the suggestions! I'll keep you posted where I end up.
If you're looking for a little more richness and warmth with some organic texture - you may want to explore the Cardas and VdH product lines - thought they are quite expensive.