AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: jonbee on 22 Apr 2019, 03:56 pm
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These were a fairly early model (1998 or so) from EW, being a modified spin-off of the top section of the famed original Andras. They listed for $5400, but now sell for a fraction of that.
EW went into bankruptcy a bit after they were introduced, and then re-organized. The replacement Fontaine 2 was similar, but with some changes such as making them one piece and the dropping the granite side panels.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=219614)
In a nutshell, these are wonderful, musically rich and full bodied speakers. They are uncommon, yet are great high end speaker values considering their quality and bargain used price. Eggleston focused on midrange quality, and these have a superb one, matched to an astonishing top end.
As I mentioned earlier, they are basically the upper part of the original Andras, without the compound woofers, with the same amazing build quality.
The cabinets are 4-5 layers thick- the sides are 2 layers of 5/8" MDF with a layer of vibration absorbent material between. The L-R sides are then coated with another layer of sound absorbent, then 3/8" of beautiful speckled black granite. Fronts, backs and tops are laminated with 1/8" thick mirror finish deep black acrylic resin. It is beautiful and unlike lacquer or wood veneers, this resin is pretty tough and resists scratching and chipping well. Mine look nearly new after 20 years.
The 2 6" Morel midwoofers, same as Merlin used in TSMs, are loaded for minimal back pressure and reflections. These drivers have no crossovers but roll off naturally, but I hear no sign of breakup on the top end of the mids, a rare trait the Morels are well known for. Very smooth and clean, with midrange tone and body that is a joy to hear.
Tweeters are the massive (3.5 lbs.!) $1300/pair Dynaudio T330D, famously used in Merlin VSMs, Sonus Faber Amator Electa and Extrema and Dynaudio's own top line speakers and which had the reputation for many years as the best dome tweeter available. They are extremely clean and detailed, yet natural and easy. They project a gorgeous top end image, truly fine. The tweeter crossover is only one high quality cap and 1 resistor.
The speakers themselves are 22" tall, and weigh a hefty 70 lbs. The 15" bolt on black lacquered bases add another 10 lbs or so, plus at least 20 more if filled, making them very heavy for pretty compact floor standers. My pair weighs 98 lbs. ea.
As to sound, they are lovely to listen to- fundamentally accurate and smooth, perfectly integrated, and with a slightly warm, full sound with a nice evenly spread soundstage. Very easy on the ears, more so than most audiophile speakers. No bass below 45 hz. or so. They are sensitive to listening position as are the Andras, sounding best with ear level above the tweeter axes. At this position there is still a slight lack of energy in the presence range, which adds to their perceived sweetness.
Compared to my 3x more expensive Avalon Opus (w/ Accuton ceramic mids and tweeters) they are not ultimately as transparent, dynamic or chiseled, but more relaxed, and with no deep bass. The soundstage draws you into the image very naturally.
That said, the easy, natural presentation of the Fontaines is very seductive, and I find myself listening to them a lot for the sheer pleasure of it. Fabulous for movies!
The Fontaines would be easy to live with long term in a fine main system, particularly with a really clean subwoofer in a larger room. They present a very clean musical picture on their own terms. I consider them a real score for their great looks, wonderful construction and enjoyable, non-fatiguing sound.
I've seen original used Andras going for $4500 and up, and with their 20 hz. capable compound woofer system they would be a great deal too, if their 210 lb. weight wasn't a problem.
EW later issued the 2, the Fontaine Signature, and Signature SE with successive changes at progressively higher prices reaching $8500/pr., and now has a similar but less expensive speaker called the Emma.
There is also a very similar single woofer standmount from the same era called the Isabel, which also seem to sell very cheaply considering the quality.
The Rosa and 9 are larger models from that era sharing the same mids and tweeters but more drivers in larger configurations but the same construction methods and concept. These models may well be worth a listen.
Anyway, these Fontaines are most welcome additions to my herd.
For the price of a new pair of B or C grade standmounts, these are a real find, if the tweeters are working well. The T330Ds are now un-obtanium, but are ruggedly made if not abused.
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Thanks Jonbee for your review, a very useful analysis.
For a good review its paramount to expose the faults of the equip to the analysis to be useful to the reader.
Of course magazines dont expose the product disabilities, these profesional reviews are useless to me, they don help the audiophile.
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Wonderful speaker.
I lived w Fontaine for a few years and loved it. It loved power and I had it hooked up to a McIntosh 600 watt amp.
That tweeter alone is worth a $1000 bucks. These are a bargain at today's prices.
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Hear, hear! Love mine as well ...
The Fontaines would be easy to live with long term in a main system, particularly with a really clean subwoofer.
Even better, TWO "clean" (sealed) subs (ACI Titans in my rig).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=113348)
And I too have found that the best sound is when the tweeter axes are placed slightly lower than your ears.
I put a 25# bag of shot in each of the bottom cabinets.
I've also since unbolted the tops from the bottom cabinets and have them slightly separated, sitting on small Star Sound Audio Points.
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Hear, hear! Love mine as well ...
I've also since unbolted the tops from the cabinets and have them slightly separated, sitting on small Star Sound Audio Points.
Rock-a-d, couldn’t you find larger floor platforms to support them other than those Sistrums?
... (affectionate sarcasm).
Best,
Lester
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couldn’t you find larger floor platforms to support them other than those Sistrums?
:icon_lol:
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Danny, that looks really sweet. Look like keepers to me, and I'm sure they sound terrific.
Question- how do you unbolt the bases, and where do you add the fill? I got mine fully assembled, and am not sure how to split them up.
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Thanks jonbee.
On mine, the bottom of the integrated "stands" have a removable port through which the bolts can be accessed to disconnect the upper monitor part.
I pushed a bag of shot up inside the bottom stands through the access port before replacing their port plugs. I added this mass as per recommendations by other Eggy owners.
Once separated I plugged the monitor bolt holes, positioned three small Audio Points on top of each of the bottom cabinets and then set the top monitor part back on them, balanced on the Audio Points. WARNING - Doing this puts the monitors at risk of being toppled over likely causing damage. Obviously not recommended if you have kids or pets. Or a very large butt :wink:
This was suggested to me by Robert at Starsound.
I did it as an experiment and perceived better clarity in the sound so have kept them this way.
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On mine, the bottom of the integrated "stands" have a removable port through which the bolts can be accessed to disconnect the upper monitor part.
I pushed a bag of shot up inside the bottom stands through the access port before replacing their port plugs. I added this mass as per recommendations by other Eggy owners.
So- the fill must be removed through the bottom port before the connecting bolts can be accessed? Are they at the top of the interior of the stands?
Thanks.
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I used a 25 pound bag of shot, left inside the bag for easy insertion and removal from the bottom access port.
I did not have to remove the bag, just tilted the bottom cabinet to move it out of the way to then access the bolts above.
So yes, bolts are at the top of the interior stands.
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Thanks!
Good listening,
John
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The original Andra and the Rosa and maybe others of the same ilk had the tweeters inverted (phase suck out). Check out the frequency response graph on the original Andra in the stereophile review. https://www.stereophile.com/content/egglestonworks-andra-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2
If you invert the tweeter the speaker becomes flat and it way, way more transparent. I did this to a pair of Rosa speakers and then later Albert Von Scheikert was hired by Eggleston to tweak their speakers and the first thing he did was to invert the tweeter (I talked to him about this).
I don't know if your speakers have the inverted tweeters or not......but if they measure anything like the stereophile review then they are indeed inverted. I would do a simply frequency response measurement.....they should be pretty darn flat if the tweeter is in the correct polarity. The speakers sound way better with felt all around the tweeter and mids. That Dynaudio tweeter has three bolts that stick out that make the thing have 4 tweeters instead of one.
The Rosa's with the tweeter in the correct phase and with better xover parts and felted were very, very good.
When I first heard the stock Rosa at my friends house I told him the speakers sucked....he he....my home made speaker sounded way more alive. This is when we looked at the stereophile review and decided we should measure his speaker too. So, I bought for him an Audiocontrol "bouncing LEDs" analyzer and we measured his Rosas in his room. It measured the same as the Andra in the stereophile review. I said....let's invert the tweeter.....and we did and it then measured flat as a pancake and all the veiled slow recessed sound now became an alive, no jive speaker......however, it then needed felting as there were "to many tweeters".....once felted.....heaven was entered.
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The Rosa's with the tweeter in the correct phase and with better xover parts and felted were very, very good.
I'll check it out. Pretty easy to try. My kind of mods.
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Yes, I believe there are just two parts on the tweeter xover (cap and resistor). These can be upgraded easily as they are probably right behind the tweeter....at least that is how the Rosa way. There are no xover parts on the midranges of the Rosa.....I have no idea of this speaker.
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Yes, I believe there are just two parts on the tweeter xover (cap and resistor). These can be upgraded easily as they are probably right behind the tweeter....at least that is how the Rosa way. There are no xover parts on the midranges of the Rosa.....I have no idea of this speaker.
The same.
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Update-
I replaced the 3 mfd REL Multicap PPMX tweeter caps with ClarityCap CMRs and reversed the leads to the tweeter. As expected, the crossover dropout disappeared, and the presence region is much more forward and "better", imo. Now the detail is a bit upfront rather than recessed and distant. Still very clean and open.
To my ears an improvement, but to those who prefer a laid back sound might like it as original.
Th Multicap was a pretty good cap a number of years ago, and it is too early to tell if the CMRs are a big improvement or not, but right out of the box it sounds quite nice.
Owners of earlier EW speakers might want to try this, starting by (carefully) reversing the tweeter wires, and take it from there.
Thanks for the tip, Ric!
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I might be mistaken but I believe Klaus at Odyssey has/had a pair of Andras as his reference speakers. It would be interesting to learn if he’s modded his and how.
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Yes, it will sound to bright with the tweeter in the correct polarity unless you felt the front of the speaker. You have all those bolts radiating extra highs.....felt everything that does not move....right up to the surround of each driver.....basically cover the whole baffle with felt. You will see.....er hear....way better.
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Anyone compared these with the Isabels?
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I have an early pair of Andras and can attest to how bright the tweeter cut. I’ll try the felt.
Don’t have the experience (guts) to replace caps. Might tinker with the phase, that’s reversible (pun).
I’ve been itching to swap out the woofer wire to 8-10 gg, they sound choked back.
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I have an early pair of Andras and can attest to how bright the tweeter cut
@Jacksky -
:o :scratch: I've always felt (no pun intended :) ) the Dynaudio Esotar was the least harsh of any tweeter I'd ever heard, and I'm extremely sensitive to high freqs. I wonder if there is something wrong with it (fluid failure?) or the L-pad (bad mod? part failure?)? It is about the only tweeter I've found smooth enough to not bother me for high freqs. Audio sure is a funny hobby.
I had a pair of felt anti-diffraction pads custom made for my Fontaines (exactly same upper TMM as Andra) by a person who used to be on AC. The felt is the proper type for anti-diffraction - all wool, very heavy and thick kind and very well made. I tried them off and on for quite some time. They do have an effect for sure - you may prefer them. In the end I decided to run without them because I find the tweeter is so laid back to my ears they constricted the high freqs too much.
Also, you may wish to call or e-mail Jim Thompson at Eggleston. He has always responded to my inquiries with helpful replies. Were it me, I'd call and speak with him about how the tweeters sound.
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Here is additional info regarding these speakers - hopefully it's helpful. I picked up a pair of these locally. I'm a "2-way soft dome tweeter / paper woofer guy" and wanted something that would play bigger. I was aware of the measurement issues, but also saw the conversation here about putting the tweeter back in phase. I also own another pair of speakers which utilize the same Dynaudio Esotar T330D tweeter, which I really like. So, these were a bit of a flyer but worst case is I end up with expensive tweeters that I happen to like.
As for the Fontaine speaker, I was not happy with the overall performance... way too laid back. "Easy to listen to" in the sense of nothing biting at you, other than missing midrange detail - which *was* biting at me. I was unable to get info about crossover improvements / upgrades from EgglestonWorks. Prior to acquiring the speakers, I also knew that sending one of them to Danny at GR-Research for him to measure / fix was a likely possibility. Well, that worked out and that's what I did. You'll see below how they initially measured, with the huge suckout. The tweeter is indeed out of phase. Putting it back in phase helped, but there was still a hump at 700hz. Danny put a notch filter there to bring that down a bit. The cost for the notch filter parts is very minimal (putting tweeter in phase is free, of course). The Morel drivers have some stored energy, and we talked about making 3D Printed adapter rings to retrofit different drivers, which measure better. I may end up doing that down the road, but didn't want to go that far $$$ into them right now. I have not heard the difference yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Regardless, the speakers will play music, the cabinets are built like a brick house, and the Esotar tweeter will be doing its magic.
I'll also add this... Danny is a pleasure to deal with!
Here is the initial measurement, with the tweeter still out of phase:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Speakers/i-XGcFjdw/0/7063aa4e/M/On%20Axis-M.jpg)
Here is the measurement with the tweeter put In Phase (El Freebo Mod):
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Speakers/i-Dnf5PgB/0/bc4d793d/M/on%20axis%20response%20with%20the%20tweeter%20polarity%20reversed-M.jpg)
Here is the measurement with a notch filter installed to bring down hump at 700hz:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Speakers/i-v29zDKg/0/06dc67e8/M/on%20axis%20with%20notch%20filter-M.jpg)
Here is the overall before / after changes / improvements. The green trace is what I'll end up with. Obviously, it will be a much better speaker...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Speakers/i-MPRXzCP/0/0922ebb1/M/EgglestonWorksFontaine_Initial_TweeterInPhase_NotchFilterAdded-M.png)