AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Speaker Reviews => Topic started by: JerryM on 17 Dec 2010, 09:20 pm
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Some months back here on AC, I threw my hat in the ring for a potential demo tour of some stand mount speakers. Shortly thereafter, I received an unsolicited PM from Fritz Heiler of Fritz Speakers. He let me know that he also lives in So Cal, and that he would be happy to let me demo a pair of his Carbon 7 speakers. I responded that I'd love to hear them, but that I was not in a position to buy speakers at the present time. He let me know that he wasn't trying to sell me speakers, just offering up a demo because he liked listening to his speakers with different types of gear and in different acoustical environments. With that having been said, I let Fritz know that I'd love to give them a try.
Having completely forgotten about this exchange, I was pleasantly surprised to hear from Fritz the weekend prior to Thanksgiving. He let me know that he'd be going through my town on his way up North for the Holiday and asked if I wanted to demo his Carbon 7s for a couple of weeks. Wow, two weeks of demo speakers with no shipping costs involved? Sure! So on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving Fritz stopped by my work and dropped off the speakers.
Now mind you, I was at work. There was no way to play them at all, but Wow!, what pretty speakers. Medium sized stand mount speakers, finished in a beautiful walnut burl veneer. Their size belies their weight - I'm guessing a good 30+ pounds each, but man are they easy to look at. We talked for a while about his speakers, the crossovers, the upcoming Holiday and so on. Fritz was engaging and obviously passionate about speakers and audiophillia of all sorts and it was a pleasure meeting him. I told him that he needed to stop by and we could barbecue and listen to his speakers on his way back through town. He told me he'd be back in a couple of weeks and we see how it went.
Stands were built in the Maintenance shop the next day, and it was time for some listening! The speakers are easy to place, and pretty forgiving of their placement. I tweaked on the speaker placement for a couple of days just doing casual listening, and dialed them in a little over two feet from the front wall to the backs of the speakers and a little over eight and a half feet apart from each other. To me, they just shined with zero toe-in, sitting straight on-axis.
In a word - awesome. These speakers play music like they are an instrument, and I have no other way of saying that is how well they sound. For two weeks I ran through every demo song I have, every favorite, and nearly every genre I have available. The Carbon 7s played all of it back with uncanny realism and musicality that made me wonder how sound so big could be coming from such small speakers. The soundstage was crazy deep and dimensional, allowing for perfect placement of each instrument in each track, and greatly exceeded the width of the speaker's placement. The integration of the two drivers is perfect. Shining highs with zero brightness, mids to die for, and the most unbelievable bass I have ever heard from a stand mount speaker. Seriously, these things have to be digging into the low to mid 30's, yet they never overloaded the room with bass boom; just music. Really pretty music.
I have a very special live recording of Rachael Yamagata's Paper Doll. It really is a great recording. About mid way through the song or so, a cello plays. I have never heard this recording where the cello sounded so real. I swear, every time I played it I'd unconsciously jerk my head towards the speakers and look at them, fully expecting them to be vibrating like a cello string beneath a bow. They are that revealing, and that musical.
The other interesting thing with the Carbon 7s is that you can stare straight at them and no sound emanates from them at all. I mean NOTHING. They just sit there, all pretty looking and make a soundstage. I get good imaging, and I understand how to achieve it, but these speakers seem to make no direct sound of their own; just room filling, beautiful music. You can't even see the mid bass driver moving at all.
Taking that as a challenge, I cued up Queen's 'The Invisible Man' and drove the living hell out of them. Pushing the 280 watt AVA Fet Valve Ultra at just over 100 decibels, yep, those drivers move. But you still can't hear a damned thing coming from the speakers; just great room filling sound with an unbelievable, three dimensional soundstage that sounds like the band is here in the room.
In short, I don't think there is a song, or genre of songs, that these speakers could not play back effortlessly and beautifully. They really are something special.
This past Saturday Fritz gave me a call and told me he would be by in the early evening to pick up his speakers. It kind of reminded me of my high school agriculture student days when we had to give up our livestock; I was really enjoying having these speakers! Unfortunately, I didn't have my act together enough to slap together a quick barbecue. In any case, Fritz stopped by about 6:00'ish. He brought with him a very fine selection of a cold beverage, packaged by the six. The stereo was already on, and we just started listening and talking.
Fritz Heiler is a great guy. We never really did any 'critical listening', we just sat and talked while the tunes played. Fritz is articulate, intelligent, funny and down to earth. He knows a ton of the Industry guys, and speaks highly of every one of them. He never bad mouthed another speaker system, just elaborated on his design goals. It was intriguing to hear him discuss crossover design, and how important it is to know the harmonics of the types of instruments themselves to get it right. Rather than discussing math and slopes, he made me understand how the hell he gets these speakers to sound so good.
For the most part, I was streaming random tunes rather than cherry picking great recordings. Repeatedly throughout the night we would both look at each other and go "Holy crap, this sounds good!" I must have spontaneously told him a half dozen times "Damn, Fritz; you make nice speakers!" Bozzio Levin Stevens 'Duende' came on randomly and we both just went 'Wow". Fritz chuckled "Where's the sub?" I reiterated that he makes damned fine speakers. The sound was just unbelievable - deep, airy, spacious and most importantly uncannily and eerily realistic. Who knows how such amazing sound comes from small speakers.
Ultimately, it started getting late and Fritz has a bit of a drive left before him. We disconnected and boxed up the Carbon 7s and I repositioned my speakers and hooked them back up. I played him the Rachael Yamagata song again, and while my speakers dig a bit deeper, the cello doesn't make you feel like you're sitting inside the body of the instrument.
The Carbon 7s are a special speaker, and have made me totally reconsider how I want to integrate speakers into my room and system. It is extremely unlikely that I will do anything without Fritz's advice and counsel, regardless of what route I take. If you are in the market for speakers, these should be added to your short list immediately. I wish I could throw out some of that bitchin' speaker prose, but I can't. These speakers sound like musical instruments, and I ran a ton of music through them just enjoying what they convey to the room. If you want that uber-deep bass, it would be a walk in the park to integrate even a most-modest sub in with these speakers because they already cross so well over so many musical instruments. At their price point of about $1,700.00, they are under priced and have to be one of the better values out there. With a 30 day 'No BS' guarantee, these deserve a listen.
In closing, thank you, Fritz. I appreciate the gracious demo of your speakers. If you're going to be in the neighborhood again, let me know. I owe you a barbecue. :thumb:
Have fun,
Jerry
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I heard these at RMAF10 and I too was very impressed. They were just fun to listen to. Thanks for the review.
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Thanks for sharing your experiences Jerry.
Fritz is a great guy, and his Carbon 7's aren't too shabbeh either. :thumb:
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Jerry,
Thank you for the very real world review of Fritz' Carbon 7s.
No "bitchin' speaker prose" required!
Kickin' review!
- david
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I've heard them at 2 shows now, which are always not optimized conditions, and Fritz's room were among the best sounding at both shows.
Gotta' be more than dumb luck for that to happen :wink:
John
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My advice? Just buy them and get off this audiophilia merry-go-round. When you "click" with a set of speakers, it's a very rare and special thing. And, IMO, you are right on - the Carbons ARE that good! :)
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Well said Tyson. I agree 100%.
I have had the Carbon 7s for about a year now, and have not once regretted my decision.
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2 years straight at AK Fest, the Fritz room was one of my favs. I was particularly impressed this past year with the room treated by Gik, let alone a killer front end which I think was Korato preamp/amp and a modded Oppo by ASI-Tek. This was my favorite room of the show.
The C7's are on my short list of next speaker. Can't stand the thought of selling my Salk Songtowers. Thinking about getting some C7's and just switch them back and forth depending on my mood. I think there are plenty of things that each speaker does better than the other.
Great write up and glad to see props to Fritz.
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Great review! The Carbon 7's were one of the best sounding small speakers at the last RMAF.
Here is Fritz with the 7's.
(http://www.wghwoodworking.net/audio/RMAF2010/day2/fritz_speakers.jpg)
Wayne
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The Carbon 7s have really good base, reaching those low notes, for a smaller monitor-size speaker. That really impressed me.
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While I've never heard a set of Carbon 7 bookshelves myself, I'm imagining that they might sound simular to my Odyssey Lorelei's as they both share very simular Scan-Speak drivers, I think they both use the 7" 8545 carbon driver, well known for it's sweet sounding midrange. I've always wondered how these would work as center channel loudspeakers (front/rear) to complement my 4 Lorelei's. :scratch:
I relive that thought each time they're brought up but I don't have the scratch for actually finding out. :oops:
Cheers,
Robin
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both share very simular Scan-Speak drivers, I think they both use the 7" 8545 carbon driver, well known for it's sweet sounding midrange.
The actually use the Usher's (8945A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer), which are just copies of the Scan Speaks.
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Excellent review! I feel like I was listening along side you.
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I'd love to hear them compared to my more than twice as expensive Merlins TSM-MMe. Maybe I'll give the demo a shot and do a write up. Should be interesting. Problem is finding the time. I went for 3 weeks without even turning on my rig. Work load is unreal. Yeah....I guess I should be glad in this economy.
I've really liked most speakers I've heard that use that Scanspeak driver (like the Odyssey Lor) I'm sure the Usher version is just as good, as they have a great rep.
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The actually use the Usher's (8945A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer), which are just copies of the Scan Speaks.
Are you absolutely certain of this? I was sure I had read somewhere that they used actual Scan Speak drivers. One of the reasons why I chose a couple of Usher X-616 centers was that their 7" driver was simular to the 8545 (Usher 8836) and while it works good for HT, it's not a good sonic match for music.
Even if Fritz is using Usher's 8545 carbon/paper driver and an Usher tweeter, it still has me wondering if they would be a better sonic matchup than the X-616? I'm betting yes. 8)
Thanks for that driver update. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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From Fritz Loudspeaker website here, (http://www.fritzspeakers.com/sound.asp)
State of the Art 2 way monitor with Scanspeak
Carbon fiber mid/bass & 9500 tweeter
Cheers,
Robin
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I got to hear the 7's at RMAF powered by Korato equipment back in 2008...thumbs up. :thumb:
A very nice monitor speaker.....glad to read the word is getting out. 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39342)
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^^^ Sweet :D :beer:
And yep, ScanSpeak drivers.
Have fun,
Jerry
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WHo is this guy?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39342)
I see him in a lot of speaker pictures. Is he a Star or something? :lol:
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He's just a tweak Martin, it's called mass loading. :lol:
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Very nice write-up Jerry.
And agree w/Tyson, appears there was some chemistry there.
DW speaks highly of them, and certainly enough to use them with his gear for shows.
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usher drivers are not copies of scanspeak drivers, in looks only as they buy from the same german manufacturer of the carbon fiber cone paper. they are actually copies of a 1920's jbl driver. :thumb:
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Firtz uses the ScanSpeak driver in his Carbon 7 bookshelves and the Usher clone in his Carbon 7 towers. :wink:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=40177)
Martin
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Thanks for the review,,I have been very interested in these,,I moved from a pair of Tyler Acoustics Taylos reference monitors to a pair of custom built monitors that use the dynaudio drivers and a french made ice cream cone "supertweeter,,the part in your review that states that these sound like the instrument (instead of a speaker),is quite a compliment.Thanks for taking the time to post your impressions.
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Firtz uses the ScanSpeak driver in his Carbon 7 bookshelves and the Usher clone in his Carbon 7 towers. ;)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=40177)
Martin
Do you have a Fritz Loudspeaker link that verifies that these are indeed named Fritz Carbon 7's who's drivers are Ushers and not Scan Speak? While I am unable to even find floorstander Carbon 7 models on his website, the only verification I'm finding that the Carbon 7 line only uses Scan Speak was in the link I provided.
After Standub's claimless post, I'm suspicous of any Carbon 7/ Usher driver claim that can't be verified. Hope you understand,,, thanks.
edit, from the Fritz Loudspeaker website:
I get the same speaker drivers that are typically used in real expensive & highly rated loudspeaker systems. As you probably know, most companies that sell loudspeakers do not actually build all (or any) of the component parts that go into them. There are hundreds of manufactures around the world that build woofers, midranges & tweeters. About 6 or 8 European companies are widely recognized as building some of the finest drivers available. My systems utilize top quality driver units mainly sourced from Vifa/Scanspeak, Morel, Seas & Peerless. [/l][/l]
I see no mention of Fritz ever using Usher drivers so you'll have to verify your claim mhconley or I'll be inclined to think your claim is as intentionally misleading as Standub's post obviously was.
Cheers,
Robin
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Do you have a Fritz Loudspeaker link that verifies that these are indeed named Fritz Carbon 7's who's drivers are Ushers and not Scan Speak? While I am unable to even find floorstander Carbon 7 models on his website, the only verification I'm finding that the Carbon 7 line only uses Scan Speak was in the link I provided.
After Standub's claimless post, I'm suspicous of any Carbon 7/ Usher driver claim that can't be verified. Hope you understand,,, thanks.
edit, from the Fritz Loudspeaker website:
I see no mention of Fritz ever using Usher drivers so you'll have to verify your claim mhconley or I'll be inclined to think your claim is as intentionally misleading as Standub's post obviously was.
Cheers,
Robin
Fritz hand delivered the original Carbon 7's I auditioned to my home in Discovery Bay, CA on one of his trips to visit his "sweetie" in NorCal. The racks he used at this year's RMAF are mine. (See my website at www.audiorak.com.) You can see my review of his excellent speakers here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79649.0) as well as my follow up in that thread that he sold me Carbon 7 towers. Fritz does not advertise the tower version because he'll only sell them to folks to which he can hand deliver them; they are too big and too difficult for him to ship safely.
When Fritz picked up the stand mounted Carbon 7's and delivered the tower version he told me the only difference between them was that he used the Usher woofer in the towers - something about them being a better fit for the increased cabinet volume. They sound every bit as good as the stand mounted speakers I auditioned.
Fritz can chime in and verify the accuracy of my statements.
Martin
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I already PM'd Fritz after my post Martin cuz if I was wrong and he did actually use Usher drivers, I wanted to be corrected. I have no way of actually knowing myself, I've never even heard a set of Carbon 7's but I can only go by what has been posted on his website and in the posted reviews from his website as fact and which have never mentioned the use of Usher drivers.
That said, your comments about your Usher Carbon 7 Towers only make me feel there would be little difference sonically between the two 8545 carbon/paper models and I hope to someday give the bookselves a listen in my HT systsem as I will never part with my Lorelei's. Another thought would be to find somene who would switch the Usher X-616 8836 drivers to 8545's and make whatever crossover changes that might be required. Now there's a thought. :lol:
Thanks Martin for correcting me by adding further details to your prior post as well as the links. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Hi Jerry- Thanks for the nice review of my Carbon 7's & it was fun checking out your system. I will admit that your Van Alstine pre-amp & amp with my speakers was one of the best sounding combos that I've heard. The guy who wrote the Stereo Mojo review had said that the C7's & the AVA Insight amp had great synergy.
Also, I would like to thank everybody else for all the nice comments about my Carbon 7's!
I've been so busy since getting back from RMAF that I'm just now getting caught up. I have a blast doing those shows & it was great meeting all of you who came to check out my room. I really enjoy getting turned on to new bands & music so please, keep bringing the new tunes... & the old ones too!
Regarding the drivers in my Carbon 7's, Martins (Mhconey's) tower pair does have the Usher clone mid/bass driver with a ScanSpeak tweeter.
In my ongoing quest for building better sounding loudspeakers, I buy, measure, test & play with as many different drivers that I can get my hands on to see which ones are the best to use in my designs. I bought those Ushers several years ago when they were just starting to get into the speaker business.
The ScanSpeak 8545K 7 inch driver is basically optimized for smaller sized stand mount cabinets. In the Carbon 7 cabinet, the Usher doesn't go as low as the ScanSpeak (Usher FS or resonance frequency of 35 Hz vs 28 Hz) & it sounds congested in a smaller box compared to the ScanSpeak 8545 drivers. However, it does work well in a larger enclosure.
Thanks, Fritz PS- Here is the pair that Jerry reviewed.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=40301)
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Thanks Fritz. The Carbon 7 towers are right at home in Florida. Hope the rains haven't hit you too hard.
I had them in a smallish 11' x 12' carpeted secondary bedroom with 9' ceilings in our old home. They are the main feature in our open plan living room in the new home. The new room is 21' x 20', tiled with 12' vaulted ceilings and opens to the kitchen, dining nook and family room beyond. It's amazing how these speakers fill the space with sound. I've been trying to tame reflections but it's diffcult with this much hard surface area. They are about 9' apart, 3' from the rear wall, at least 3' from the side walls and toed in pointing directly at the listening seat about 10' away. In the sweet spot they sound absolutely wonderful creating a wide soundstage with amazing authority. They can also fill the entire home with sound when we just leave them on in the background. Simply amazing speakers.
Martin
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I was lucky to have the Carbon 7's on loan from Fritz for about 4 weeks recently. They replaced my Reference 3A MM deCapo-i's on the same 26" stands. Initially I had them hooked up to my 15WPC Cary 300B monoblocs but the Carbon 7's need much more power so I did the bulk of my listening with a very old Bryston 2B.
I must say that all the reviews of the Carbon 7 are spot on. Simply an amazing speaker with the right amp. Open, detailed, coherent from top to bottom, dynamic and just plain fun to listen to. They have a fullness of sound that is rare among small monitors where they often sound thin and compressed with wimpy bass. Many speaker companies try to impress potential buyers with in your face detail in the highs. The Carbon 7's have as much or more detail and micro dynamics as I have heard in other high end designs but it is presented naturally without that ear bleed that often follows after extended listening
The bass from these small speakers is really astonishing with usable lows in the low 30Hz range, I would guess. Soundstage depth, width and height is first rate with these speakers. They totally disappear 100% of the time and image specificity is as good as you will find. Performers had an "in the room" quality that was almost spooky.
It was a sad day when Fritz came over to take the carbon 7's back. Just for fun, we did some back and forth between the Reference 3A's and the Carbon 7's playing the same tracks. The Reference 3A's were up on AudioGon the next morning.
For $2K, the Carbon 7 is a steal! Especially true when you consider the build quality, top notch drivers from Scanspeak, unique crossover design, and hand made in Redondo Beach, CA. What's not to like?
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That guy is Lone Wolf. You just don't recognize him cause he's not holding a beer. Lol. Lol
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For $2K, the Carbon 7 is a steal! Especially true when you consider the build quality, top notch drivers from Scanspeak, unique crossover design, and hand made in Redondo Beach, CA. What's not to like?
The fact that he doesn't live closer to me up here in the Northeast maybe? :lol:
But I want to thank Fritz for taking the time to post and go over what Martin's already laid out. :thumb:
Maybe I can get Fritz to do some custom work on my Usher centers down the road,,, 8)
Cheers,
Robin
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Fritz often comes to the Detroit area -- if that's near enough to you
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Fritz often comes to the Detroit area -- if that's near enough to you
Well it's north enough not not even close to being east enough,,,, Vermont. :D
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I for one am very glad Fritz builds such good speakers and visits us in Michigan (he has family here). I spoke with him at the 2008 AKFest (back when I didn't really know who he was). Now he's big time. :wink: I did get to hear the C7's at the 2010 AKFest and can copy what wywires wrote. They provided a very full bodied sound that was pleasing and detailed. And they filled the room (driven by a very beefy 100 wpc amp).
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Well it's north enough not not even close to being east enough,,,, Vermont. :D
Sounds like it's time for a road trip!!! 8)
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How about coming to sunny California...It's been raining non-stop. Fritz - keep those beautiful veneers dry!
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I am highly impressed with monitors from Green Mountain Audio and Mark and Daniels(I own the Ruby's). Anyone heard these brands and how they sound in relation to the Carbon 7 monitors?
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I got a pair. My curiosity got the best of me. I must say, I am highly impressed. For awhile I didn't consider them because of the price...to low. I mean, in my narrow mind (at the time)how can something in that price range sound good enough? Well, the Fritz Carbon 7s are more than good enough. What is not to like? They image well, have great bass, VERY good highs without sounding the least bit harsh, nice mids, coherent, and most of all musical and fun.
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Congrats. Now how about a couple of photos to show those beauties off.
I got a pair. My curiosity got the best of me. I must say, I am highly impressed. For awhile I didn't consider them because of the price...to low. I mean, in my narrow mind (at the time)how can something in that price range sound good enough? Well, the Fritz Carbon 7s are more than good enough. What is not to like? They image well, have great bass, VERY good highs without sounding the least bit harsh, nice mids, coherent, and most of all musical and fun.
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I got a pair. My curiosity got the best of me. I must say, I am highly impressed. For awhile I didn't consider them because of the price...to low. I mean, in my narrow mind (at the time)how can something in that price range sound good enough? Well, the Fritz Carbon 7s are more than good enough. What is not to like? They image well, have great bass, VERY good highs without sounding the least bit harsh, nice mids, coherent, and most of all musical and fun.
You really can't go wrong with Scan-Speak drivers, highs & sweet midrange to die for. I really gotta hear them in my system someday,,, as soon as I can find a job. :duh:
Cheers,
Robin
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Congrats. Now how about a couple of photos to show those beauties off.
You know, I have never posted pictures before. I don't know how. I'm sure it is not to hard. For amplification I have been using a modded Unison Unico SE and the combo was stellar. However, I have a tube out now. Other than that I have a Herron preamp (VTSP 3a) which is awesome and Aspen's new Flagship power amp, the Maya-11 on the way.
A couple of people, including Fritz says the Van Alstine Insight 240, I think, is a great combo with the Carbon 7s.
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I got a pair. My curiosity got the best of me. I must say, I am highly impressed. For awhile I didn't consider them because of the price...to low. I mean, in my narrow mind (at the time)how can something in that price range sound good enough? Well, the Fritz Carbon 7s are more than good enough. What is not to like? They image well, have great bass, VERY good highs without sounding the least bit harsh, nice mids, coherent, and most of all musical and fun.
Congrats, Afterimage!! :thumb: Time to start listening to that music collection all over again! :D
Have fun,
Jerry
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indeed Jerry, that is what I have been doing. One nit pick though. I notice these need some volume to sound their best. At 75 to 85 decibels, which is the levels I normally listen, everything is there. Below that, it doesn't have the dynamics or details. Now, with that said, it could be the amp. My main amp is in the shop. I borrowed an amp from a friend, actually I used to own this amp, so that may be the reason. It is a Sim W3. I had a modded Unison Unico SE in the system when I first got the Carbon 7s a couple of weeks ago. Wow, that was a great combo. Alive and kicking!! I was having fun so I never really tried the late night low level listening with it. However, now it has a tube out. So when I get my main amp back, I will try it out and test low level listening.
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The Carbon 7's have as much or more detail and micro dynamics as I have heard in other high end designs but it is presented naturally without that ear bleed that often follows after extended listening
That also sounds like your nice cables at work there too, Alex :thumb:
Jason
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Just want to add my 2 cents. Fritz speakers are great. regardless of the price, among the most beautiful looking speakers I have ever seen. And as has already been mentioned 1000 times. Fritz is one of the shining examples of a great person overall as well as someone to deal with.
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That also sounds like your nice cables at work there too, Alex :thumb:
Jason
There is no substitute for great speakers!
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There is no substitute for great speakers!
Amen to that!
I just thought your statement ALSO sounded like a characteristic of your cables, from what I heard... It was a complement, but definitely not meant to take anything away from these seemingly great speakers... I am reading and wondering if they would be nice in my secondary system.
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Amen to that!
I just thought your statement ALSO sounded like a characteristic of your cables, from what I heard... It was a complement, but definitely not meant to take anything away from these seemingly great speakers... I am reading and wondering if they would be nice in my secondary system.
Or your primary system.
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Or your primary system.
Yep! These speakers, judging from the comments around, sound like they would be great in my main room too. But the Ulysses are happy there.
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indeed Jerry, that is what I have been doing. One nit pick though. I notice these need some volume to sound their best. At 75 to 85 decibels, which is the levels I normally listen, everything is there. Below that, it doesn't have the dynamics or details. Now, with that said, it could be the amp. My main amp is in the shop. I borrowed an amp from a friend, actually I used to own this amp, so that may be the reason. It is a Sim W3. I had a modded Unison Unico SE in the system when I first got the Carbon 7s a couple of weeks ago. Wow, that was a great combo. Alive and kicking!! I was having fun so I never really tried the late night low level listening with it. However, now it has a tube out. So when I get my main amp back, I will try it out and test low level listening.
Low level casual listening is what I used to dial in the best speaker placement. While I found the Carbons to be easy to place, detail at low levels was most notable when they were placed where they belonged. They really got super-nice when they were a few inches more into the room and a bit wider apart then my normal speaks.
You're right, though, maybe it's the borrrowed amp. It might be speaker break in, or a combination of both. :scratch:
Listening to music below 75 db makes me just want to turn it up, anyway. :D
Have fun,
Jerry
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indeed Jerry, that is what I have been doing. One nit pick though. I notice these need some volume to sound their best. At 75 to 85 decibels, which is the levels I normally listen, everything is there. Below that, it doesn't have the dynamics or details. Now, with that said, it could be the amp. My main amp is in the shop. I borrowed an amp from a friend, actually I used to own this amp, so that may be the reason. It is a Sim W3. I had a modded Unison Unico SE in the system when I first got the Carbon 7s a couple of weeks ago. Wow, that was a great combo. Alive and kicking!! I was having fun so I never really tried the late night low level listening with it. However, now it has a tube out. So when I get my main amp back, I will try it out and test low level listening.
For $30, I would highly recommend you try a set of EVS Ground Enhancers (http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/EVS_Ground_Enhancers.html) on the negative terminal of the Carbon 7's. If they do for your Scan Speak drivers what they did for my Lorelei's Scan Speak drivers, your ears will thank you for it. You can read more about thse little grounding gems here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87653.0) but from what you are describing, these could very well be the answer to your low volume dynamics issue. If you like what they do on the speaker end, you can always try another set on the negative terminals of your amp,,,, and you can always send them back if they don't work out. It's hands down the best bang for the buck tweak I've ever done for my system. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Thanks for the tip satfrat. I will check into those for sure. I am crazy and will try anything in auido, but at least these are not that expensive. :D
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Thanks for the tip satfrat. I will check into those for sure. I am crazy and will try anything in auido, but at least these are not that expensive. :D
Ditto. :lol:
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For $30, I would highly recommend you try a set of EVS Ground Enhancers (http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/EVS_Ground_Enhancers.html) on the negative terminal of the Carbon 7's. If they do for your Scan Speak drivers what they did for my Lorelei's Scan Speak drivers, your ears will thank you for it. You can read more about thse little grounding gems here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87653.0) but from what you are describing, these could very well be the answer to your low volume dynamics issue. If you like what they do on the speaker end, you can always try another set on the negative terminals of your amp,,,, and you can always send them back if they don't work out. It's hands down the best bang for the buck tweak I've ever done for my system. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
Robin is correct..... :thumb:
I've had a pair of Carbon 7 speakers here on loan from Fritz....they were in NY, and he asked me to give them a listen and take care of them for awhile. I first heard them at RMAF 2009.
So far....nice speaker....relaxed and warm....easy to listen to. :thumb:
Had a chance to grab a pair of the EVS Ground Enhancers from a fellow Raver (Fred)....and put them on the 7's....wow...they really work. 8)
A jump in the dynamics...and more focus....pretty neat. And yes, their on the negative terminal of the Carbon 7's.
Try them.... :thumb:
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Robin is correct..... :thumb:
I've had a pair of Carbon 7 speakers here on loan from Fritz....they were in NY, and he asked me to give them a listen and take care of them for awhile. I first heard them at RMAF 2009.
So far....nice speaker....relaxed and warm....easy to listen to. :thumb:
Had a chance to grab a pair of the EVS Ground Enhancers from a fellow Raver (Fred)....and put them on the 7's....wow...they really work. 8)
A jump in the dynamics...and more focus....pretty neat. And yes, their on the negative terminal of the Carbon 7's.
Try them.... :thumb:
Wolfy,
You've had a bunch of monitors through your systems (slight understatement :D). Can you suggest a familiar model that might be of similar presentation and quality?
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Wolfy,
You've had a bunch of monitors through your systems (slight understatement :D). Can you suggest a familiar model that might be of similar presentation and quality?
Still a few pairs "floating" around here Mudslide .... :lol:
As I mentioned, the 7's are an easy speaker to listen to...warm...but with detail. You don't get tired...their not "in your face".
Similar sounding....three come to mind.
The Sonist Concerto 2...Green Mountain Europa....and an older Usher monitor speaker...forgot the model. :duh:
Their similar in that they "sound" neutral to warm...in that area.Yes...their different in construction....but similar sounding. Speaker that don't "knock you over"....they float with the music.
Now....none are the "last word" in bass...it's there...but not room shaking....but then again...their smaller monitors.
Considering all the speakers that are out there.....the Carbon 7's are very nice....enjoyable....Fritz did a good job....at a good price. :beer:
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Still a few pairs "floating" around here Mudslide .... :lol:
As I mentioned, the 7's are an easy speaker to listen to...warm...but with detail. You don't get tired...their not "in your face".
Similar sounding....three come to mind.
The Sonist Concerto 2...Green Mountain Europa....and an older Usher monitor speaker...forgot the model. :duh:
Their similar in that they "sound" neutral to warm...in that area.Yes...their different in construction....but similar sounding. Speaker that don't "knock you over"....they float with the music.
Now....none are the "last word" in bass...it's there...but not room shaking....but then again...their smaller monitors.
Considering all the speakers that are out there.....the Carbon 7's are very nice....enjoyable....Fritz did a good job....at a good price. :beer:
Are these contenders to replace the SP's
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Are these contenders to replace the SP's
The SP Tech Mini's are a different type speaker....more forward...deeper bass....the 7's are warm and laid back....sort of like a broken-in pair of jeans....comfortable...relaxing.
It comes down to what "type" of sound you prefer. :wink:
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The SP Tech Mini's are a different type speaker....more forward...deeper bass....the 7's are warm and laid back....sort of like a broken-in pair of jeans....comfortable...relaxing.
Which means what ? If you didn't have so many speakers you would get a pair ?
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Y
The SP Tech Mini's are a different type speaker....more forward...deeper bass....the 7's are warm and laid back....sort of like a broken-in pair of jeans....comfortable...relaxing.
It comes down to what "type" of sound you prefer. :wink:
You added this. WhIch sound does the Wolf prefer
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WhIch sound does the Wolf prefer...
A variety....that's why I own many different speakers.... :thumb:
There is NO perfect speaker....if there was...we'd all own the same one. :wink:
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Poor wolfy. Being put on the spot like that... :lol:
For the record though, I agree with his assessments. :thumb:
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There is NO perfect speaker....if there was...we'd all own the same one. :wink:
[/quote]
We're getting there :lol:
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Poor wolfy. Being put on the spot like that... :lol:
For the record though, I agree with his assessments. :thumb:
Not really....many are good...some so-so....and some I don't care for....it's all about what one prefers.... :wink:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=21845)
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Well... I'm not sure what your "not really" refers to, but no matter...
The most pressing question here is; Why do I not yet have a picture of you standing next to my speakers? Wait... is it creepy for me to be asking that? :o :lol:
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The most pressing question here is; Why do I not yet have a picture of you standing next to my speakers? Wait... is creepy for me to be asking that? :o :lol:
Got BEER ? :beer: :jester:
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Well, I got some Bud, Sam Adams winter lager, Guinness, and Sapporo. It may not be the most refined list of beers, but it'll all get the job done... :beer: :thumb:
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Still a few pairs "floating" around here Mudslide .... :lol:
As I mentioned, the 7's are an easy speaker to listen to...warm...but with detail. You don't get tired...their not "in your face".
Similar sounding....three come to mind.
The Sonist Concerto 2...Green Mountain Europa....and an older Usher monitor speaker...forgot the model. :duh:
Their similar in that they "sound" neutral to warm...in that area.Yes...their different in construction....but similar sounding. Speaker that don't "knock you over"....they float with the music.
Now....none are the "last word" in bass...it's there...but not room shaking....but then again...their smaller monitors.
Considering all the speakers that are out there.....the Carbon 7's are very nice....enjoyable....Fritz did a good job....at a good price. :beer:
yeah but as far as bass, the Carbon 7s have a lot for a monitor and more than a lot of floor standers out there too. I used to own the Europa and the 7s have quite a bit more than the Europa. More than the Callisto as well. Of course how their set up and the room come into play so be careful with my blanket statement. In someone else's room/system it might be a different take. But as you said, it is all about preference. Right now, I prefer the Carbon 7s. Still in the honeymoon period.
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How about room treatments for the Carbon 7s? I have a couple of Echo Busters up and some bass traps in the corners, but I have no idea why. I mean, how can one tell if you need need diffusion or absorption? I see fritz generally uses GIK for his shows.
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I mean, how can one tell if you need need diffusion or absorption?
Swap the current diffusion locations with the current absorbtion locations. Listen again. Or, remove them entirely and add them back based on the sound. Your ears will figure it out for you. :thumb:
Have fun,
Jerry
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Swap the current diffusion locations with the current absorbtion locations. Listen again. Or, remove them entirely and add them back based on the sound. Your ears will figure it out for you. :thumb:
Have fun,
Jerry
that would be nice, I guess I need to find out if my echo buster panels are the diffusing kind or the absorbtion kind. I have no idea. I just bought them a couple of years ago and put them up.
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Sweet; The Carbon 7s have been named Stereomojo's 2010 Product of the Year for Best Small Speaker Value (http://www.stereomojo.com/Products%20of%20the%20Year%202010/Stereomojo2010ProductsoftheYear.htm).
Congrats, Fritz!!! :beer:
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Congrats Fritz on a great stand-mounted monitor speaker!
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indeed Jerry, that is what I have been doing. One nit pick though. I notice these need some volume to sound their best. At 75 to 85 decibels, which is the levels I normally listen, everything is there. Below that, it doesn't have the dynamics or details. Now, with that said, it could be the amp. My main amp is in the shop. I borrowed an amp from a friend, actually I used to own this amp, so that may be the reason. It is a Sim W3. I had a modded Unison Unico SE in the system when I first got the Carbon 7s a couple of weeks ago. Wow, that was a great combo. Alive and kicking!! I was having fun so I never really tried the late night low level listening with it. However, now it has a tube out. So when I get my main amp back, I will try it out and test low level listening.
Okay, forget about that nitpick above. The Carbon 7s are not bad late night low level listening speakers. Not in the least. I dropped an Arte Forma i-150 Sunsan integrated amp in the system and I am happy to report the Carbon 7s paired with this are very fine for low volume listening. Plenty of details and dynamics.
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For $30, I would highly recommend you try a set of EVS Ground Enhancers (http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/EVS_Ground_Enhancers.html) on the negative terminal of the Carbon 7's. If they do for your Scan Speak drivers what they did for my Lorelei's Scan Speak drivers, your ears will thank you for it. You can read more about thse little grounding gems here (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=87653.0) but from what you are describing, these could very well be the answer to your low volume dynamics issue. If you like what they do on the speaker end, you can always try another set on the negative terminals of your amp,,,, and you can always send them back if they don't work out. It's hands down the best bang for the buck tweak I've ever done for my system. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
Okay, finally got the ground enhancers. Wow, they do work. Thanks again for the heads up on these. Also before I added the ground enhancers, the Carbon 7s were continuing to sound better and better with more and more hours on them.
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Glad to hear the Carbon 7's are working better for ya, congrates! :thumb:
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Hey Chris, what about these? :lol:
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/NY%20Audio%20Rave/7-%20July%2009%20at%20Jim/_DSC8634.jpg)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7057)
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Hey Chris, what about these? :lol:
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/NY%20Audio%20Rave/7-%20July%2009%20at%20Jim/_DSC8634.jpg)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7057)
What are the speaker in the middle? Just curious.
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The Absolute Sound recently reviewed the Carbon 7's and Neil Gader's glowing write-up is now online.
Link: TAS Carbon 7 Review (http://www.avguide.com/review/fritz-speakers-carbon-7-tas-219?utm_campaign=Weekly+Email&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-403&utm_content=Zesto+Phonostage,+Fritz+Speakers,+NY+Audio+%26+AV+Show+Report)
Congratulation's Fritz !!!
Wayne
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Another recent fine review of the Carbon 7s on Audiophilia: http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=7703
Congrats again Fritz!
The reviewer is a friend and he mentioned my name. Shameless self promotion. :oops:
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Well deserved excellent reviews of a fantastic speaker - I think they captured what I hear in my own pair - congratulations Fritz!
Martin
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I absolutely adore these speakers! Congratulations Fritz.