Amp Comparo 2007

Yorgi · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 06:35 am »

Anyone willing to take a crack at building this A-B switch for the test? I think it is an excellent idea, allowing you to instantly switch between two amps connected to the same set of speakers at the press of a button.

http://sound.westhost.com/absw.htm

I can make this switch but my problem is finding the time to hunt down the parts. I would guess the relays would be a bit of a chore to find.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #21 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 02:02 pm »

Yorgi,

I was thinking of building a switching device as well. I'm not sure if it's a good idea though. Apparently, the problem is that if connected to a switching device, the amps will share the same ground plane, which could have adverse effects.

I'd hate to do this whole comparison, and then be told that it's a flawed and unfair comparison because of the fact that we had the amps both tied in to a switching device.

Cheers

Daygloworange · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 07:11 pm »

Great news guys,

I just got word from Gage Rommel, the Vice-Pres at Moscode, that they will be sending a Moscode 401 HR to be reviewed at our Amp Comparo.

Thanks for all those here at AudioCircle for bringing this amp into our awareness.

I'm glad that we're going to have it here.

Cheers

Spirit · « **Reply #23 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 20 Dec 2006, 07:11 pm

Great news guys,

I just got word from Gage Rommel, the Vice-Pres at Moscode, that they will be sending a Moscode 401 HR to be reviewed at our Amp Comparo.

Thanks for all those here at AudioCircle for bringing this amp into our awareness. I'm glad that we're going to have it here.

Cheers

Props to the Glow man!!!!
What a scoop. Congrats DayGlowOrange.
this will be a red-letter day in Toronto Audio history.
CampAmp 2007 -can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!

DonnieW · « **Reply #24 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 10:10 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 20 Dec 2006, 02:02 pm

Yorgi,

I was thinking of building a switching device as well. I'm not sure if it's a good idea though. Apparently, the problem is that if connected to a switching device, the amps will share the same ground plane, which could have adverse effects.

I'd hate to do this whole comparison, and then be told that it's a flawed and unfair comparison because of the fact that we had the amps both tied in to a switching device.

Cheers

We ran into a similar problem when we did a speaker cable comparison, or 'Comparo', earlier this year. We had built a pretty cool switch that allowed two pairs of bi-wires to run through and therefore perform super quick switches. Phasing and hums were a problem and we couldn't get rid of it. One of the guys came up with a logic based switch design that perfromed phase reversal and grund lift on command. Really clever and handy for cable tests.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #25 on:** 20 Dec 2006, 11:45 pm »

Quote

this will be a red-letter day in Toronto Audio history.
CampAmp 2007 -can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!

A couple of more interesting additions could be appearing as well. This is getting better by the day.

If everybody come through, this is gonna be a serious amp roundup.

Cheers

Daygloworange · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Dec 2006, 04:46 pm »

Ok, another update.

Here's the list so far:

Dodd 120 mono blocs
Bryston 9B ST
Nomad Audio Niagara Class D amp
McAlister M 130 mono blocs
Red Wine Audio Sig 70 mono blocs (SLA powered Tri-Path based)
Custom Hybrid tube/MOSFET mono blocs (courtesy of markC)
Odyssey Audio Monoblock Extreme, Special Editions(SS)
ATI 1202 Stereo (SS)
Moscode 401 HR (hybrid)

Here a few more additions that will probably be attending:

Graaf GM50 (tube integrated)
Flying Mole DAD-M100 mono blocs (digital amp)
Electrohome PA-100 MK-1's. (KT-66)

The list keeps growing!

Cheers

bluemike · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 Dec 2006, 09:09 pm »

hey Denny
How are those Electra's interconnects kicking in

IMO They sound quite good out of the box

Daygloworange · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 Dec 2006, 09:54 pm »

Quote

How are those Electra's interconnects kicking in

They seem to have smoothed out quite a bit. I thought I noticed a little more extension in the low end when I initially installed them. They have been playing 24/7 since I got them a couple of weeks ago. They have about 350hrs on them. Maybe over the holidays, I'll switch them with my previous IC's and see what I think. I've never swapped IC's before, so I'm curious as to the outcome. The sound of my system at the moment, I'm very happy with. I'm getting great soundstage and imaging. In a few weeks I'll put in my modded SB 3 after it's done burning in at a friends house. That I'm really looking forward to.

Quote

That's an awful lot of amps to try to compare at one time. I wish you guys a lot of luck with it.

I don't know how it's going to go. Our last meeting started at noon, and went to almost 9.00pm. I think the hard part is going to be keeping them hidden. Because of the vast selection of types of amps, I want it to be a blind comparison. The Odyssey mono blocs are like 55lbs a piece or something, while the Flying Mole amps are like 5 or 6 lbs. I don't want it factoring in the equation. Of course I'll be aware, which kinda sucks, but everyone else will be blind. I still think it'll be a very cool experience, and I'm sure one that will appeal to me will be found in this group of amps.

Cheers

mgalusha · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Dec 2006, 12:33 am »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 22 Dec 2006, 09:54 pm

I don't know how it's going to go. Our last meeting started at noon, and went to almost 9.00pm. I think the hard part is going to be keeping them hidden. Because of the vast selection of types of amps, I want it to be a blind comparison. The Odyssey mono blocs are like 55lbs a piece or something, while the Flying Mole amps are like 5 or 6 lbs. I don't want it factoring in the equation. Of course I'll be aware, which kinda sucks, but everyone else will be blind. I still think it'll be a very cool experience, and I'm sure one that will appeal to me will be found in this group of amps.

The listeners will be able to tell when you go to connect the Odyssey's just by the grunt coming from whoever is moving them around.

The mono's are seriously heavy chunks of metal.

Seriously, this sounds like a heavy duty event. I'm sure lots of folks will be looking forward to soaking up the results.

nuje

Daygloworange · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Dec 2006, 12:51 am »

Yeah, I had to move the Odysseys at our last meet, but your talking to a guy that been lugging 100 watt Marshall amps around since he was a teenager, so those by comparison are not that bad.

Yeah, I'm very excited about the lineup of amps. I hear guys rave about these amps, and to have them here for a side by side is really, really cool. It's definitely gonna rock.

Cheers

zybar · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 Dec 2006, 02:37 pm »

Quote from: Marbles on 22 Dec 2006, 09:27 pm

That's an awful lot of amps to try to compare at one time. I wish you guys a lot of luck with it.

On paper it sounds really cool to have so much gear on hand, but in reality, it is just way too much gear.

We have tried the big gear comparisons in the NYAR and it never really clearly shows what a product can do and it usually produces a few "false positives".

Another negative side effect is getting people turned off to your musical selections. In order to be consistent, you will need to use the same song(s) for each amp. By the time people hear the same song(s) for the 7th time, their reaction to the song may sour. Hell, to this day I still can't listen to Firebird Suite...

This means that the amps that go later have a potential disadvantage over the earlier ones that had "fresh" song(s) and listeners.

Anyway, not trying to be negative, but just thought I would chime in.

Enjoy the event.

George

Daygloworange · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Dec 2006, 06:05 pm »

Your thoughts are definitely welcome. I have some concerns to be honest, but the opportunity to have all these popular amps on hand, was too good to pass up.

If we did a few this time, and a few another time, people would then be wondering how this amp from this comparo would stack up compared to the one from that comparo.

This is just an experiment. We'll see how it goes. Any comments or suggestions from other groups are welcome. We want it to be fun and informative, and of course would like to avoid anything that could make it tedious.

Keep the advice coming.

Cheers

bluemike · « **Reply #33 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 02:46 am »

Here's a thought

Have 2 different setups going we can separate Solid state amps from Tube amps
and who ever is interested can get their fill

First impression of the list of amps each one is is very different from the other and will be very hard to compare

Just my 3cents

I'm very much looking forward to this

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #34 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 08:44 am »

I would say with a list that long you'd need two days and even then you would be hard pressed to make sense of the results.

This may sound bizarre but if you can lay your hands on a really good pair of mics and use a single stand set up, like an ORTF pair or maybe a binaural pair with a Jecklin disc, you could record the results.

Later the various takes could be edited into a CDR with the same selections adjacent to each other for quick comparisons between amps. This presumes, of course, that the speakers would be in the same position throughout and the mics were not moved. The amps would have to be carefully level matched anyway, and for that I would suggest a radio shack analog meter attached to the mic stand and a test CD.

Obviously the recording setup will add distortion, but at least it will be fixed, not variable, and you should be able to listen through it on playback, especially if the recording is binaural and the recording is listened to with headphones. Also the benefit of having the potential for instant comparisons on playback would go some way to justifying the exercise.

The mics would need to be good, though - something in the order of Schoeps, Earthworks, DPA or Royer.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #35 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 04:22 pm »

Russel,

If I had the time, I would do what you suggest. But with the room full of people and so on, too many variables that could yield inconsistent results. I plan on level matching them with test tones from a sine wave generator that I have. Any suggestions on what frequencies I should use to do the level match?

bluemike,

Can't run 2 systems in one room, I don't think that would be good. And you were there at the meet in Nov. It was standing room only.

If people think it's a good idea, then I'll definitely consider doing it over Saturday and Sunday.

Please let me know your thoughts on that. Believe me, Jan. 28th will be here real quick. I'd like this to go well.

Does anybody have a Rat Shack SPL meter? Mine broke years ago, and I've never bothered to replace it.

Cheers

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #36 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 05:30 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 24 Dec 2006, 04:22 pm

Russel,

If I had the time, I would do what you suggest. But with the room full of people and so on, too many variables that could yield inconsistent results. I plan on level matching them with test tones from a sine wave generator that I have. Any suggestions on what frequencies I should use to do the level match?

I would suggest pink noise from a test CD or record it yourself onto a CDR. If you can't, I could sent you a CDR of some appropriate test signals. I would avoid sinewave tones whether fixed or swept, as the reading from a SPL meter, even when fixed in space as it would be when mounted on a mic stand would be much more influenced by the relative position of the ever-changing audience. Try it yourself sometime - play a fixed frequency tone and walk around near an SPL meter and look at the variation in readings from your varying proximity, then do the same using pink noise.

I could send you a CD of 2 pink noise tracks; one correlated and the other de-correlated. The playback of these could also form part of the comparo in that it would be a demonstration of how precise an image the amps are capable of throwing. The correlated track is mono and should create the effect of a narrow slit source down the centre. Th un-correlated track is random phase and should have no apparent specific source.

Russell

zane9 · « **Reply #37 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 05:31 pm »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 24 Dec 2006, 04:22 pm

Does anybody have a Rat Shack SPL meter? Mine broke years ago, and I've never bothered to replace it.

Cheers

Dayglowy, get to your nearest Liquidation World. They bought up a ton of them from Radio Shack, as they morphed into The Source. I think the nearest one to you is in Oakville. Call them: (905) 815-8811.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #38 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 05:33 pm »

Cool man. Thanks.

Cheers

bluemike · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Dec 2006, 07:52 pm »

Denny
Let's run a poll here on Audiocircle to see if having the amp comparison across 2 day's would be preferred

To me i'm fine with it either way from an enjoyment perspective
For those that mainly interested from a critical listening perspective may opt for the 2 day route

You can pm me if you want to discuss further