AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Audio by Van Alstine => Topic started by: Mary on 12 Mar 2024, 06:47 pm
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=262269)
https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/ca1-control-amplifier
https://avahifi.com/collections/power-amplifiers/products/np1-power-amplifier
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Are you serious? A new control amp with a MM Phono circuit and remote control? WOW! Congrats AVA!
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Can't wait to see and hear them at AXPONA! :wink:
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Sound quality, is this a big upgrade to the SET120 or more of a side grade with a different sonic signature?
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Very interesting
Congratulations on launching a new product line
Mary are these units essentially replacing the SET120 and SET120 Control Amp?
Or will they both be offered going forward?
Can you speak further about the Nested Architecture ?
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They provide actual jaw dropping musical improvements over the already excellent SET series small amplifiers.
You won’t believe it until you hear them. Experience them at Axponia in april.
Frank
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One question about the CA1 - will plugging in the headphones shut off the signal to speakers? I noticed that there's no toggle switch on the back to turn off the speakers.
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Yes, plugging in headphones turns off speakers.
Everything about the new control amp is improved. New phono section, new headphone driver, new power supply, remote on/off capability, and more, all standard. Musically astonishing new audio circuits configuration. Hard to believe how much you have been missing until now.
Frank
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Any plans to add the new technology to your DVA Digital preamp or the M225/ M750 Monoblocks?
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At this time the needed new semiconductors are not available at a voltage rating high enough for a high powered amplifier.
The M225 and M750 amplifiers are pretty special already as many of you know.
These new very high tech devices bring the best of our differential bridged mono amps, but in an affordable stereo two channel package designed for best quality sound for those with medium to higher efficiency speakers.
The new amplifiers take the cost of no holds barred absolute sound down to a very affordable level. No need to dream for a $50,000+ audio system. With either the new CA1 or MP1 you will get this, probably even better.
Hey you guys who have been consecrating on very expensive cables and parts. How about auditioning one of these new superamps from some of the funds from your cable budget? You will be surprised.
Frank
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Is the phono amp on the CA1 adjustable in anyway? Is it MM only?
Jason
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Cool stuff, Frank!
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I just noticed the addition of this new product to the AVA website today and thought what's this? Anyway, I noticed right away it had a built in phono preamp which is nice. I'm wondering if it's similar to the set 120 control amp I bought a couple of months ago, only with the phono preamp added or is it something entirely different. It states somewhere I read "up to" 55 wpc which I assume means 55wpc? Is the CA intended to replace the set 120 control amp or sit along side because there's apparently a 5 wpc difference. Can't wait to see pictures of it with the cover off.
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I just noticed the addition of this new product to the AVA website today and thought what's this? Anyway, I noticed right away it had a built in phono preamp which is nice. I'm wondering if it's similar to the set 120 control amp I bought last month, only with the phono preamp added or something entirely different. It states somewhere I read "up to" 55 wpc which I assume means 55wpc? Is the CA intended to replace the set 120 control amp or sit along side because there's apparently a 10 wpc difference. Can't wait to see pictures of it with the cover off.
They are not the same as the 120 control amp. It is new tech.
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I just noticed the addition of this new product to the AVA website today and thought what's this? Anyway, I noticed right away it had a built in phono preamp which is nice. I'm wondering if it's similar to the set 120 control amp I bought last month, only with the phono preamp added or something entirely different. It states somewhere I read "up to" 55 wpc which I assume means 55wpc? Is the CA intended to replace the set 120 control amp or sit along side because there's apparently a 10 wpc difference. Can't wait to see pictures of it with the cover off.
I bought a used black SET 120 Control Amp off US Audio Mart last week and it's a huge upgrade from the Insight(?) control amp I had before. Also got the MK5 DAC from someone else on US Audio Mart. My previous Control Amp and EC DAC should be up on the used/demo/quickship page shortly.
<;tldr:
Although I first learned about the DynaKit mods from the Jensen's ads in (I think) Stereo Review I did not actually buy any of Frank's products until around 2008 or so - a used PAT-5 preamp that I bought from Frank. I had always assumed that any upgrade to my system (Fisher, MacIntosh, Marantz, Pioneer, Scott, NAD... over many years) would be wasted on me because of my hearing loss (long boring story). Man was I ever wrong!!! I ran the PAT5 into the power amp section of a super cheapo "hifi" receiver and I was amazed at the quality. At the time I was listening to music from either a Sony stereo tape deck (TC-765?) and a Denon turntable with a Grado black cartridge. Both were about 30 years old. I've gone through several upgrades since the PAT5, always used except for the phono preamp. Since that first PAT5 I've always - with a couple of exceptions - bought the best used AVA equipment I could afford.
;tldr/>
A long-winded way of saying that the I expect the CA1 and NP1 to be the usual (at the very least!) significant upgrade from the previous generation.
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Yes, plugging in headphones turns off speakers.
Everything about the new control amp is improved. New phono section, new headphone driver, new power supply, remote on/off capability, and more, all standard. Musically astonishing new audio circuits configuration. Hard to believe how much you have been missing until now.
Frank
Hi Frank, does the new CA1 use a passive or active preamp?
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MM phono plus 3 sets line level inputs and passive volume control. Remote volume, mute, and on/off functions. Active headphone drivers.
Frank
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Very interesting
Congratulations on launching a new product line
Mary are these units essentially replacing the SET120 and SET120 Control Amp?
Or will they both be offered going forward?
Can you speak further about the Nested Architecture ?
Hello jandrews,
For now we plan to offer both the SET 120 and the new CA1. This option will be reevaluated in the future.
Mary
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So...would the NP1 be able to handle the Magnepan LRS+ basically played at an 85 db absolute peak level. The question is because these speakers seem to hover around 3.2 ohms on the Stereophile test with a benign 20 degree phase angle...and because generally people throw tons of power at Maggies...BUT you also hear that they can sound great with much lower power.
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Not in the market, but curious as to whether the phono section could be omitted to save non-spinners (or those with external phono pre's) a little?
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Costs us (and you) less for us to standardize on just one configuration then to build with options. Newest phono section is all surface mount parts.
If you don’t want the phono section, go for the Vision RB preamp and the basic NP1 power amp.
Frank
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Hello jandrews,
For now we plan to offer both the SET 120 and the new CA1. This option will be reevaluated in the future.
Mary
Thanks. Oops, Wrong post........never mind.
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Frank....what do you think about the NP1 driving the Maggies?
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Driving small Maggies should work, but not the larger ones. The amp is rated at 55 Watts with a minimum recommended speaker impedance of 4 Ohms. Overall one of our preamps with one of our bigger amplifiers would provide better results.
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The speakers I am buying (Epos 14n) do not go below 4.3 ohms and stay around 6 ohms for most of their range, are roughly 86 db sensitive. Your new NP1 interests me, but I'm curious as to why you do not list a 4 ohm output.
Thanks in advance.
Tom
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The description from the NP1 Web page:
Specifications
Power output: 55 watts per channel into 8Ω. Suitable for nominal 4Ω loads and higher.
Note this specification is the same for the CA1 Control Amplifier.
Best regards,
Larry
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I think it’s reasonable to ask if the power essentially doubles into 4 ohms as other AVA amplifiers do.
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Hello,
The engineer who designed the NP1 and CA1 hasn't provided us with the 4 Ohm power rating yet. It's likely, however, to be less than double the 8 Ohm rating due to thermal (heatsink) limitations. Once the engineer provides us with the specifications we'll update the Web site.
Thanks,
Larry
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I am currently running a wonderful pair of Philharmonic BMR towers (86 db efficient 6 ohm impedance) with no issues at all. The amp does not even get warm and will play as loud as I want and more. Over the top resolution and transparency. Probably better than what you have heard at any price. I typically listen to dedicated hi end tracks extracted from u-tube.
Frank
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... I typically listen to dedicated hi end tracks extracted from u-tube.
Frank
Do you get the tracks with u-tube premium?
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Yes. I use u-tube premium which has tons of hi-res music content and no commercials. Using voice commands and my big LG smart TV, I can bring up any artist and performance I want and port the optical digital output from the magic TV to our Digital preamp and on to our brand new CP1 Control Amplifier.
Pretty amazing.
Frank
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Yes. I use u-tube premium which has tons of hi-res music content and no commercials. Using voice commands and my big LG smart TV, I can bring up any artist and performance I want and port the optical digital output from the magic TV to our Digital preamp and on to our brand new CP1 Control Amplifier.
Pretty amazing.
Frank
This and other similar online services are truly amazing. It may be a bit of an exaggeration to say that listening to music I first heard over 60 years ago in HD using your equipment has been truly life changing.
The only thing that bothers me about streaming is that living artists who created the music in the first place are getting less and less of the revenue that their work generates. I don't know how the revenue generated from sites like hdtracks is distributed, but I can't afford to buy a lot of tracks or albums from them. That said I still use the streaming services on a regular basis.
I've veered off into an entirely different topic than the subject of this thread.
I can't wait to get my hands on a CA1, though. Each upgrade has been a real eye-opener.
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Well, order placed. See you soon, CA1. Frank, this is quickest I’ve purchased any piece since I got into this hobby. No brainer and if it’s even a quarter as good as you’re claiming, I know I’ll love it :)
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Well, order placed. See you soon, CA1. Frank, this is quickest I’ve purchased any piece since I got into this hobby. No brainer and if it’s even a quarter as good as you’re claiming, I know I’ll love it :)
I might be right behind you. But I love my SET120's so I'm not sure if I want to part yet :)
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How was Axpona? Saw the mention in PTA, but would love to know how room attendance and reaction was. That show seems like a bear to catch everything, so many rooms. Maybe there’s a trip to CAF in the future ;)
Eagerly awaiting CA1 delivery :)
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Driving small Maggies should work, but not the larger ones. The amp is rated at 55 Watts with a minimum recommended speaker impedance of 4 Ohms. Overall one of our preamps with one of our bigger amplifiers would provide better results.
Maggies dip down to 2 ohms. Is this a problem for the amp?
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Maggies dip down to 2 ohms. Is this a problem for the amp?
Hi Larry,
The NP1 and CA1 work great with nominal 4 ohm speaker loads, including nominal 4 ohm speaker loads that drop to around 3 ohms in parts of the spectrum. The primary constraint with loads lower than this and above two ohms is thermal, not electronic. We expect the amp to be electronically stable into these low loads. However, the thermal capacities of the parts used in the amp, including the output heat sinks, are not sized to support long-term use into these loads.
I hope this helps.
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Are there any reviews of the CA1 or NP1 out, or expected soon, such as those in The Part Time Audiophile etc?
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Are there any photos of the NP1 available? It's not posted on the site
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https://www.stereophile.com/content/philharmonic-audio-and-audio-van-alstine
You can see them in the article.
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Would it be possible to post a picture or pictures of the new CA1 with it's cover off so we can see what the inside looks like as with the SET 120 control amp? One of the things I love about the set 120 control amp is the simplicity and clean layout inside and neatness of design. I suspect the CA1 is similar in that respect but of course with the phono preamp included. The most beautiful piece of gear I ever owned on the outside was the Tandberg TR2060 in the late seventies, but inside it was a spaghetti farm with wire crisscrossing from one side to the other. It looked a mess to be honest and offended my ocd nature I guess, so I kept the lid on at all times. The irony was that the unit they had on display in the store had a plexiglass cover so you could see the inside, and I thought why? Why spoil the illusion of perfection by showing people that mess, but whatever.
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Insides of new AVA NP1 power amp. Control amp adds phono board, headphones board, remote receiver board, motor driven volume control, and four position selector switch.
Sound is over the top fantastic! Just starting to ship now.
Frank
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=263965)]
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Nice, clean layout. Hope to see a review soon.
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Beautiful, I'm probably one of the few that think the beauty of the inside is as important as the outside. You should probably post this on your website because there's likely a few like me that will be impressed by how tidy it is. :D
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Here is another photo showing the insides of the new AVA CA1 Control amplifier.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=263989)
Frank
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All of Frank’s equipment is this clean! Note the large transformer - another trademark.
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Lol, I thought the first pic was the CA1 and I couldn't figure out where everything was, but now it makes sense. This also looks wonderfully neat, even with all the added features over the 120 control amp. You design great stuff Frank, and to think I only heard about you and your company a couple of years ago. It doesn't seem possible with all the years of interest in HiFi gear I've had. I could have saved myself a lot of time and money if I had known, but better late to the party than never I guess.
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Would just like to verify the gain of the CA1 is (max volume position) 36dB on any input, not the phono input?
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The CA1 gain is 36 dB as reported. Phono gain is normal for MM cartridges..
These two units resolve the music way better than any playback equipment you have ever heard. Nothing just blends together. Peter, Paul, and Mary are three separate wonderful voices, not a slightly blended mix. Everything is real and the experience just makes you listen.
After you hear one you can’t go back.
Frank
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Frank can you post a pic of the front of NP1?
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The CA1 gain is 36 dB as reported....
Frank
Thanks Frank. Would there be any remote control interference having either one of the control amplifiers (CA1 or SET 120) in a rack with the digital dac/preamp? I have two independent zones housed in one rack. I wouldn't want the dac/preamp remote to also simultaneously raise/lower the control amp volume. I'm currently using 2 different manufacturers equipment and control them independently with each companies remote.
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The digital preamp and CA1 use different remote senders that do not interact with each other.
The NP1 faceplate is identical to the CA1 faceplate less the knobs and remote sensor lens. Photo coming soon.
Frank
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The CA1 gain is 36 dB as reported. Phono gain is normal for MM cartridges..
These two units resolve the music way better than any playback equipment you have ever heard. Nothing just blends together. Peter, Paul, and Mary are three separate wonderful voices, not a slightly blended mix. Everything is real and the experience just makes you listen.
After you hear one you can’t go back.
Frank
What was the gain on the set 120 control amp by comparison? Apologies, I know it's been given before, but all I can remember is that it's 6 db higher than on the 120 power amp.
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The CA1 gain is 36 dB as reported. Phono gain is normal for MM cartridges..
These two units resolve the music way better than any playback equipment you have ever heard. Nothing just blends together. Peter, Paul, and Mary are three separate wonderful voices, not a slightly blended mix. Everything is real and the experience just makes you listen.
After you hear one you can’t go back.
Frank
Are you suggesting that these units are sonically superior to your other current offerings?
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That's more or less what's suppose to happen with new products, no?
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What was the gain on the set 120 control amp by comparison? Apologies, I know it's been given before, but all I can remember is that it's 6 db higher than on the 120 power amp.
32 dB of gain for the SET 120 control amplifier.
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Thanks Rusty. Is there any interesting significance to this difference that might have to do with the nested improvements?
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Hi All,
My CA-1 is out for delivery. My most recent amps were the DVA M225s powering Vandersteen 2Ces, and most recently the SET 120 powering Salk HT-1 TLs. Well, I've moved into my endgame speaker, the 99db efficient Zu Soul 6s. Other than the Zus I've been without any reference gear, and they've been connected to a $199 best buy Yamaha, which has been surprisingly engaging via the Zus. I do now have a border patrol DAC and Eversolo streamer on loan so I'll be able to give the CA-1 a fair go powering the Zus before my end-game digital arrives in a few weeks. I'll certainly post thoughts here.
The other day Frank posted internal photos of the CA-1. Compared to the SET 120, it probably has twice as many internal parts, if not more, and I can't imagine it is not a more expensive build than the 120....yet Van Alstine is only charging $200 more for the CA-1 than the SET 120. This sort of customer first, value pricing when introducing a new product that is replacing a legacy product is simply unheard of in the audio industry, even amongst other fair-budget minded boutique operations. Even before getting delivery of the CA-1, this is the most impressive aspect.
Thanks again Frank, Mary and the whole crew!
Matt in Pewaukee Wisconsin USA
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The other day Frank posted internal photos of the CA-1. Compared to the SET 120, it probably has twice as many internal parts, if not more, and I can't imagine it is not a more expensive build than the 120....yet Van Alstine is only charging $200 more for the CA-1 than the SET 120.
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"Wait! There's more!"
The CA-1 has a phono preamp. That alone saves you $579.00!
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Yeah, it does look like a good deal, especially considering you would need to add a separate phono preamp to the set 120 control amp for vinyl. In my own case I prefer a separate phono preamp, but for most people I suspect having it built in is better. Then again, there's also the remote, which is convenient if you don't want to combine your music listening with exercise.
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That's more or less what's suppose to happen with new products, no?
Not necessarily. To bring out a newer low power unit that is superior to your flagship offerings is not typical SOP. Unless of course there is a new flagship in the offing.
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Ever wondere what absolute sound was? You won't anymore if you order a CA-1. Frank was not kidding when he stated it can compete with the Uber premium price bracket!
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I can't speak for VA, but I know with cameras ( because I'm a lifelong photographer) lower end models frequently surpass the higher end ones when introduced. In any event I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, because even their least expensive Set 120 control amp sounds better than anything I've ever owned before, and I've owned a lot in the last 70 some years at much higher prices.
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Our best amplifiers for inefficient speakers remain our M225 and M750 bridged differential mono units.
Our best amplifiers for reasonably efficient speakers are our brand new NP1 and CA1 designs.
Our goal was to offer great equipment for all at any price range and nobody else does this better.
Frank
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Looks like there is plenty of room to install an XLR connector to drive them in bridged differential mode. Should be good for around 150 watts per amp.
Ron