Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 11530 times.

Carlman

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« on: 6 Aug 2004, 04:41 pm »

I have been on a quest to find sound that is accurate, musically involving, and with a great soundstage in a small room (13'x11'x9') (LxWxH).

The adjectives above are quite broad and cover many areas of sound quality and are disectable in countless ways.  In my review, I've done my best to record my thoughts on what I heard.

Additionally, there are other factors to considering a speaker that weigh into my final decision.  Cost, amplifier requirements, synergy, etc.  I will complete an amplifier review shortly that considers those aspects as well.

Here's the speakers in order of what I most preferred:
Usher X-718
Green Mountain Europa
Usher S-520
KEF Coda 70

Associated Gear:
Eastern Electric Minimax preamp with NOS tubes
Eastern Electric CD Player
AKSA 100w Nirvana Plus
Audience IC's for the pre-amp, Ven Haus Pulsars on CD-pre, Usher speaker cable.

Music:
Five for Fighting tracks 2, 4, and 5
Pizza Tapes, track 10
Norah Jones/Malleck NY track 1

I used music I like to listen to for various reasons.  The above sample is the type of stuff I listen to most.  I've listened to other music and it all has the same character as the test tracks I used.

Here's my notes from listening:

5 for Fighting Track 2...
Europa:  Vocals are very real sounding, the levels of bass, vocals, and other instruments sound balanced.  However, the instrument placement is a bit indistinct or vague.  The vocals are well centered, though.  Overall, the speaker has a midrange-heavy character to it.

Usher: Vocals are more 'crisp' almost 'crispy' but not quite.  The piano stood out more and all the instruments were easier to pick out.  The stage seemed more coherent and the instruments were placed more concretely.  The bass was a bit overdone on this track... seemed a bit 'boomy' in the lowest octave.  However, the bass was quite nicely detailed.

Track 5
Usher: Great bass, detailed, etc.  Nasal-sounding vocals but I think this track is recorded like that.  The Usher's amplified that effect.  
Europa: Great real-sounding harmonica.  Vocals are more accurate? I guess... bad track for describing vocals.
Where's the bass?

Track 4
Usher: Vocals a bit too hot or high-pitched sounding for what I'd like.  Same goes for the piano... I thought this could be a number of things.. I can't say it's the speaker itself of it's amplifying another issue... (I later learned that a different amp fixes it)
I found this track just slightly fatiguing because of the 'hotness'.

Europa:
Sweeter vocals and piano, less harsh/hot.  However, less detail and quantity of bass.  Drums sounded fake and overall the Europa's had a diminutive sound to them... but not in a bad way.. They sounded smaller, tighter, and sweeter.

Pizza Tapes track 10:
Europa: Intimate vocals, perceived motion of guitars/mandolin moving around and to/from the microphones.  

Usher: Highs are just a tad hot, maybe 1% more than I like but otherwise very accurate... excellent microdynamics and details.  Also excellent impact/attack on notes.  At about 2:30 into the song, there are some hard plucks that really leap out of the Ushers that didn't on the Europa's.  Repeated back and forth just to be sure.  This surprised me since I expected the Europa's to sound better in this regard.

Norah/Malleck track 1:
Europa: Nice rounded bass, good intimacy, warm vocals, and elicited toe-tapping.  Convincingly real sounding vocals.  However, the soundstage was a bit indistinct.

Usher: Airy vocals, more accurate bass, better instrument separation, details more apparent... especially at about 2:20 into the song. wow!

OK, so now for the little speakers... I used the '5 for fighting' tracks.

At first I was going to say "The KEF Coda 70 compared to the Usher 718 is apples and oranges so I'm not going to review it that way"... but, then I thought... well, I keep hearing how these speakers are giant killers so, I'll compare the $300 KEF's to the $950 Ushers....

Going from the Usher to the KEF was a big drop down in sound quality.  I went from a wide, open deep soundstage with detail and microdynamics to a hollow, thin sounding speaker that centered vocals vaguely and had signifigantly less soundstage accuracy and limited instrument placement.

I could hear the resonance of the speakers... kind of like the sound was in a big box or can.  The only element these speakers did very well was vocals.  The bass was kind of good but, nothing special.  I think these speakers COULD be giant killers if you spent some money tweaking the resonance issues and possibly the crossover.  

Usher S520:  A much more controlled speaker revealed more intimate-sounding vocals, could perceive instrument placement to some degree, good midrange, and the bass was rolled off nicely.  These would mate extremely well with a sub.  The downside is the highs were a bit splashy and the upper midrange/highs just sounded kind of thin compared to the nice midrange/midbass they produced.

So, that's it... Enjoy... I'll write my amp notes soon.

-Carl

marvda1

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1859
  • freelance reviewer: The Sound Advocate
usher floorstanders
« Reply #1 on: 6 Aug 2004, 05:19 pm »
did you consider usher floorstanding speakers like the 6311, cp 730 or maybe the 6371 and cp 738?

Carlman

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #2 on: 6 Aug 2004, 05:25 pm »
I considered what I could get my hands on for free (or close to it) and could audition in my home.... and that were under a grand..  There are so many speakers out there... I've still got the Shamrock Keelin's and Selah Audio SA-1's to compare... which I'll compare to the X-718.

After that, that's it...

-C

Carlman

Special thanks
« Reply #3 on: 6 Aug 2004, 08:16 pm »
I wanted to acknowledge a few people that made this review possible...

Many special thanks to Bill O'Connell at Morningstar Audio Imports for the CD player, amp, and tubes.  Bill's been extremely generous in letting me demo equipment as I work through my issues.

Also, many thanks to Shane aka 'hometheaterdoc' who is an AC member and also an Usher dealer (and a million other brands).  He let me borrow his demo speakers and cables... and was even willing to drive them to me if I wanted.  

I know these guys want to make money but so do other companies and they don't do half the job of customer service as Bill or Shane.  

So, thanks a million.

-Carl

lonewolfny42

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 16918
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #4 on: 7 Aug 2004, 07:27 am »
Nice review Carl ! See you put some time and effort into this review , thanks! Looking forward to your thoughts on the Keelin's and the SA-1's.
    I've not heard an Usher speaker , but I've read many positive comments concerning their line.[/list:u]
      I find that the short coming in the Europa's is the bass (I own a pair) , when compared to some other small 2 way speakers.The mid's and high's are excellent tho, and with very good detail.[/list:u]
        My preference now has been the Keelin speakers over the Europa's because of the better bass responce and the quality of the total sound. They perform well in my small audio room (12x12).[/list:u]
          Best of luck in your quest !! :thumb: [/list:u]

Carlman

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #5 on: 7 Aug 2004, 07:20 pm »
I received a PM asking about my personal goals and how I got to the point of looking into new speakers and thought my response would be a good addition.

Once upon a time.... (2 months ago, actually) Bill sent me an EE Minimax 8w amp to try while my AKSA was in Australia getting the upgrade to 'Plus'.  I thought.. hmph, 8watts... it'll be fun I guess... To my surprise,  I fell in love with this tube amp's sound and was enamored with how natural and musically involving it was.  It didn't have the authority or ultimate control the AKSA had but it was very enjoyable for musical reasons.

I then started thinking if I could just find some really efficient, good speakers, I'd be happy.  However, from what I read, I didn't think single-driver type speakers would satisfy all of my musical tastes.  (Alternative rock and other textured/electronica stuff specifically)

So, I tried the KEF Coda 70's because I thought that'd be enough at 92db.  I found out though, they're 91db.  Also, I found out they're good for the money but not refined enough to make them a long-term speaker for me.  My goal was to have a system last 1 year.  *longer would be ok too but not probable knowing me... ;)

Anyway, one thing led to another and I tried to just find some other speakers to hear that were A: under 1,k and B: nearly free to demo in my home.  I started asking around.... and got some great responses.

That's how this comparison came about... I ended up with a slew of speakers in my room and more on the way.

Also, a little more history here... I had a pair of Revel F30's that spoiled me on good, punchy detailed bass.  They were in a huge, well treated room.  (14' deep and 30' wide)  They weren't perfect but they were good enough for me to last a really long time.  Then we moved to a new house and I ended up in a small room, 11x13x9 (WxLxH).

The Ushers remind me of that sound I had.  They get me closer to the big speaker sound than any others I've tried. I loved the bass detail and gutteral impact they had. I usually love a lively sound but found that this house was lively enough on its own. So, I started looking for warmer, smaller sounding speakers that were more inline with the new room/house's lively character. I've treated my room with a good bit of 8th nerve and homemade stuff and it's helped a lot.

When I heard the Ushers, it was the magic I felt with the F30's all over again. The 2 pair of speakers certainly would sound different side by side but... the Ushers do all things I loved about the Revels in a big room but in my small room. I do not need a sub with the Ushers which is a great benefit.  *see the trading post* :)

I thought this would help further explain how I got here.  So, thanks for the question, Dan.

BikeWNC

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #6 on: 8 Aug 2004, 12:44 am »
I'm sure you guys are aware that the GMA Europas are being replaced by an updated model which will start shipping by the end of August.  

If you didn't, well now you know.

Andy

Carlman

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #7 on: 8 Aug 2004, 01:43 am »
Quote from: Tsunami
I'm sure you guys are aware that the GMA Europas are being replaced by an updated model which will start shipping by the end of August.  

If you didn't, well now you know.

Andy


I know a bit about it... I talk to Roy Johnson about once every other month or so... He didn't tell me what his new speakers would specifically improve upon.  If you know more, fill us in!

BikeWNC

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #8 on: 8 Aug 2004, 02:03 am »
Not much really.  Just what I read in this thread over on Agon.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1091663461&openflup&2&4#2

sethk

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 8
Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #9 on: 28 Aug 2004, 11:00 pm »
The KEF Coda 70 is not really my cup of tea, so I won't comment much about them beyond the fact that I didn't like them much at all in a dealer demo.

The GMA Europa does get some rave reviews but has not been professionally reviewed and people are rightly skeptical of internet buzz about them. They seem to be good speakers and whenever I've inquired about them I get a few responses from people saying theyre great and that I should try them out (and sometimes a dealer will tell me they want to sell me a pair.)

Red Dragon Audio

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 884
    • http://www.reddragonaudio.com
Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #10 on: 29 Aug 2004, 05:11 am »
Quote from: lonewolfny42
Nice review Carl ! See you put some time and effort into this review , thanks! Looking forward to your thoughts on the Keelin's and the SA-1's.
    I've not heard an Usher speaker , but I've read many positive comments concerning their line.[/list:u]
      I find that the short coming in the Europa's is the bass (I own a pair) , when compared to some other small 2 way speakers.The mid's and high's are excellent tho, and with very good detail.[/list:u]
        My preference now has been the Keelin speakers over the ...


Thanks Carlman for the review of these monitors.

Lonewolfny42,

I think that if you are looking for bass to fill in what your europas don't do, you should consider getting a high quality sub.  You could get other speakers with lower bass but it might end up that you just don't get good bass from your main speakers in your room.  

With subs, you can keep the Europas for all their good qualities, keep them placed for optimal sound and then get subs positioned for optimal bass response.

Just my 2cents.

lonewolfny42

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 16918
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #11 on: 29 Aug 2004, 02:11 pm »
Thanks heavy,
    Your right that a sub would add greatly to the Europa's. I don't happen to have one now on hand, but I've found the bass very good on both the Keelin's and Selah's SA-1 speakers. My room is small 12 x 12, so I don't need to "shake things up".... :lol: [/list:u]
      Thanks !! :) [/list:u]

TheeeChosenOne

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #12 on: 29 Aug 2004, 03:45 pm »
Carlman,
What amp are you using with your test.

From your notes it sounds that the Europa is lacking some juice.   I have mine tied to an Odyssey DM.  The speaker just flat out rocks.  VERY dynamic and real sounding.   Drums sounding not real, hard plucked strings not plucky enough, less soundtage accuracy, sounds to me like a juice problem.  

In my experience, the Europa shines with good power and placement.

I've never done an A/B with the Usher, but I have heard it in different situations.  While it's a good speaker and beautiful to boot, I always came away thinking its big visceral sound wasn't accurate enough for me.  I'm in the accurate sound camp, which is why I love the VMPS and GM sound.

Btw, to get the most of any monitor, I tie them to great sounding subs.  This helps with the bottom bite.

birdwizard

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 74
Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #13 on: 29 Aug 2004, 04:18 pm »
I had a similiar take on the Europa. The best vocal presentation
I've ever heard. Very real.
 Everything else is slightly recessed in the background behind the vocals.
And the bass is light and wispy.
 A/Bing with the Shamrock Keelins really brought the imbalance in the Europas to light for me. The Keelins were soooo balanced it was hard to describe their sound. Excellent.
 I want to hear the Ushers though :)

marvda1

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1859
  • freelance reviewer: The Sound Advocate
usher speakers
« Reply #14 on: 29 Aug 2004, 04:29 pm »
carlman, did you compare the usher x-718 to the x708 and x719 as they are only $50 difference in either direction?

lonewolfny42

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 16918
  • Speakers....What Speakers ?
Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #15 on: 29 Aug 2004, 07:49 pm »
Quote from: birdwizard
I had a similiar take on the Europa. The best vocal presentation
I've ever heard. Very real.
 Everything else is slightly recessed in the background behind the vocals.
And the bass is light and wispy.
 A/Bing with the Shamrock Keelins really brought the imbalance in the Europas to light for me. The Keelins were soooo balanced it was hard to describe their sound. Excellent.
 I want to hear the Ushers though :)
I own both......I agree with you take on the Keelin's....very balanced speaker. Nothing stands out....just nice and smooth. A good value and a good speaker...IMHO.
    Maybe Carl can ship the Ushers around so we can hear them..... :?  :scratch: [/list:u]

Carlman

Speaker Review: Usher, GMA, KEF
« Reply #16 on: 29 Aug 2004, 08:42 pm »
I am auditioning the 718's because my local dealer recommended them.  I wasn't specifically looking at Usher in the first place... these just came along and wow'ed me.

With vocals, the Europa's are very close to really sounding like a voice.  Whereas the Ushers are an entirely different approach... they try to create a new experience.  More simply, Europa's  recreate whereas Ushers create an experience.

The amp is an AKSA 100w (at 8ohms and I think 160+ at 4) and can drive the speakers well into the 100's of db and still be clean.  I think there's plenty of juice.  There are other things at play here as well.  How much bass is possible when the speakers are 7' apart, and 8' from the listener in an 11x13' room?  

If I had 1000watts of clean power I don't think the Europa's would suddenly have more bass.  They are a bit lean in the midbass and deep bass is non-existent.  I tried adding a sub but it didn't integrate well (given my level of patience and experience).  

The Ushers do not have the realness of the Europa.  However, I learned that I lean towards having a full-range sound over having one really good element of the sound.  

The Europa's best the Ushers in some ways but the overal presentation of the Usher is just more enjoyable/musically satisifying to me.  

Adding 2 subs into an 11x13 room isn't going to happen.  I'd just get floorstanders.  I already have room-shaking bass with the Usher's, though.  Integrating thousands of dollars of equipment (active xovers and subs) would likely improve the sound but a, I don't have it and b, why not just get better speakers?  I really want a simple, easy solution that doesn't need tweaking every time I listen.  I found myself constantly adjusting the sub for each song.. and that just ruins the fun of listening to music for me.

All that said, I just recently learned that I'll likely receive a new speaker design from Green Mountain Audio to audition.  This new speaker is the answer to those who want the next step up in realism and more full-bodied bass in one package.  It'll be a while before I get it since it hasn't been released yet.  So, it may blend what I like about both the Europa and the Usher... but then again, it may not... we'll see.
It'll cost a lot more than the Europa, though.

Thanks,
Carl

Roy Johnson

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 20
    • http://GreenMountainAudio.com
Europa sound
« Reply #17 on: 3 Oct 2004, 05:46 am »
Carl-

Thank you again for your website work for us.

We haven't heard imaging problems here at the factory, nor have any owners reported those issues. The mid-heavy presentation is not something we've heard either here at the factory or from customers.

In looking at the photos of your room setup, please consider the following variables:

Reflective surfaces near a pair of time-coherent speakers lead to frequency-dependent (and loudness-dependent) incoherent sounds. This "confused" sound will have its primary effect on the imaging and the tone balance through the middle-range tones.

Having other speakers in the same room has an unpredictable affect on the bass of the speakers under test.

I've tried lower, tilted-back stands similar to the ones shown in your photo. Listening to the Europas on sturdy, 24-26" stands for your particular listening distance and ear height yields a completely different, and more accurate, presentation.

The Europa's 4 Ohm load can affect the bass quality of some amplifiers we'd all think "shouldn't be bothered." Fortunately, most amplifiers perform well with the Europas.

A bigger difference in bass is often traceable to the first pair of interconnects in the system. Speakers using small woofers and a large enclosure often have an indistinct bass, and the cables selected for those often are ones that thin-out the bass. How do we know, then, that one way is correct, and another is not? Because we can, and have, measured the overshoot in the bass from the small-woofer/large-cabinet speaker designs. That's the overly strong resonance required for that sort of design to have "bass."

We have many analog master recordings I've made, for which only one set of interconnects is used between the 1/2-track reel and the various power amplifiers. The Birdland DAC we use also acts as a preamplifier; again, only one set of interconnects is required there.

The new Callisto will be at its best on 24" stands. You'll find it improves on everything about the Europa. We'll know when your pair will ship after the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest---right now we're working double shifts to fill up the workbenches with their cast marble bodies while organizing the last details for the show. Janet has been extra hilarious due to sleep deprivation these past couple of weeks. I had no warning she was this funny before she came out here in July. But I like it.

Hey Carl! Roy invited me to say hello. Heard the Callisto last night...I could feel the bass coming up through the concrete floor...and we were listening to one speaker. I'm smiling as I write because I know how fabulous it sounds. I can't wait to hear two speakers at once...Bye for now. All the Best, J

We'll have the Europa, Callisto, and the Continuum 3 in Denver next week.

Thank you again for your help and your review.

Best regards,
Roy Johnson
Founder and Designer
Green Mountain Audio