AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Headphone Mania => Topic started by: dB Cooper on 31 Dec 2017, 02:21 pm
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Interesting list. Discuss?
https://www.cnet.com/pictures/the-audiophiliac-picks-the-best-headphones-of-2017/
Persoally I think any list that includes a Beats model is a little suspect, but...
Note: Edited the thread name to reflect the inclusion of both the CNet and Innrerfidelity lists)
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Interesting is the correct word. Lost it's credibility with me
in the yo-yo pics ($39 to $6000).
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Steve is charged with coming up with a market survey type of list, it needs to include all pricing categories to be useful for Cnet. If he were doing something independent I think his choices would be different. I don't find these types of lists to be helpful buying guides, but he did an okay job on an impossible task.
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Should read "Best non-electrostat Headphones" :green:
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I continue to be puzzled at the complete absence of mention or coverage of the new Grado ps2000e. it's almost like it doesn't exist. there are three reviews out on it all of which are very positive one of which even says that it's in a different League tha :scratch:n another highly-regarded $1,800 range pair that is currently on Tyll's wall of fame.
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Although they like to think they can cover audio in a professional manner ("because it's tech"), I don't find reviews on CNET to be particularly valuable. I'm not convinced it's "all Steve's fault" but that doesn't change the fact that I too often find the conclusions expressed in that particular media website suspect.
Sometimes it seems like if it makes some sound that somewhat resembles music, it's good to go. Not exactly how I view quality audio equipment.
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Interesting list. Discuss?
https://www.cnet.com/pictures/the-audiophiliac-picks-the-best-headphones-of-2017/ (https://www.cnet.com/pictures/the-audiophiliac-picks-the-best-headphones-of-2017/)
Persoally I think any list that includes a Beats model is a little suspect, but...
It's a popular (for the masses) site so I imagine he gets thousands of "which Beats should I buy?" so by giving a recommendation, he saves himself a big hassle.
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Monoprice 1060 2nd batch must be on the list.
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This list is merchandising paid to advertise the products, the HPs were not classified by SQ or price, the title say:
he Audiophiliac picks the best headphones of 2017
Or ie all are the best.
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How can you possibly know that? Apparently you feel free to have opinions
and at the same time question the motives of others who also have opinions.
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Its not difficult to know it, if no one is bad...(when the editor cant point defects from a item published in the magazine the product is a sponsor).
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So not to hijack the thread, but since there are experts weighing in on this:
I'm in the market for headphones- I was thinking of the LCD2 Classics and this is right in my budget. I think I can find a local spot where I can try them out. Thoughts?
I currently have the Audeze Deckard to a Win10/Roon setup which "caters" to Audeze but does not mandate the purchase unless you guys feel the match / integration has benefits....
Thanks (you guys probably have a ton of "which should I buy threads" but if that's where this question belongs, I apologize.)
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I had the LCD2, and it was the "Fazor" edition, so probably a good example of the series. It was a very, very neutral headphone, with a slight dropoff on the extreme ends. Some people might consider it boring, but if you don't like it as-is, a slight boost at either extreme end can only make it better.
I just got the LCD2 Classics, and really enjoy them. Very comfortable, great sound and I really cannot find any weaknesses with them. The top end is fine to me. Plus the price is not over the top.
My other phones are the Massdrop Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and I prefer the LCD2 Classics. The LCD2s are well worth the effort to audition.
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Thank you.... I should mention I currently have Audio Technica ATH-A1000Z if that helps as a comparison. I'm not sure I'm a closed can guy. My previous were open Sennheiser's and I think those suited me better. When on phones I listen to a lot of rock, some jazz but definitely elevated SPLs...
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Hi Ronin,
It would be useful if you decide in advance which type you want> Neutral or Warm sound. I like very warm planars as the HE400, mine is the original HE400 and its hurts the head after 1 hour, I suppose the new versions are better, on the positive side its great w/analogue recordings.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zxu3Rv1EL._SY300_.jpg)
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In response to above, I tend more towards "neutral". My speaker preference is Dynaudio and Focal. I like a very detailed, up front type sound. Phones get a lot of rock use vs on the couch quiet smooth jazz. I have Roon set to two zones. First is main speakers which has no DSP or settings changed except for "event style" (I use WASAPI). Zone 2 is phones only. There are of course multiple pre-sets for Audeze and then tweaks I guess. However I at the moment just have the phone/BiAural setting on.
I guess my picks on the list would be LCD2 and the Focal. $ delta though.... No experience with HiFiman, MrSpeakers or others.
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No experience with HiFiman, MrSpeakers or others.
I read here AC the HE560 are not warm as the 400, but neutral.
Maybe this HifiMan chart may help:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173097)
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In response to above, I tend more towards "neutral". My speaker preference is Dynaudio and Focal. I like a very detailed, up front type sound. Phones get a lot of rock use vs on the couch quiet smooth jazz. I have Roon set to two zones. First is main speakers which has no DSP or settings changed except for "event style" (I use WASAPI). Zone 2 is phones only. There are of course multiple pre-sets for Audeze and then tweaks I guess. However I at the moment just have the phone/BiAural setting on.
I guess my picks on the list would be LCD2 and the Focal. $ delta though.... No experience with HiFiman, MrSpeakers or others.
For your taste I would suggest Focal or Denon phones over the LCD2's.
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Here is Innerfidelity's "Ten Best of 2017" list. (https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/2017-innerfidelity-top-ten-best-headphones-year) Interesting to compare, but I think this is a slightly better list. Noteworthy (to me) that Sennheiser grabbed three of the ten spots, all for 'budget' cans; guess they've still got some game.
Thoughts on this list?
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Tyll isn't the Moses of audio, bringing down the tablets from on high (and neither is any other reviewer). But I like to read him for several reasons. One, he's open about his preferences (for warmer signatures, for example), which IMO gives the reader a baseline to judge a headphone to an extent if they've had a chance to hear other things he's reviewed. Two, he provides measurements, which of course aren't the whole story, but are useful. And lastly, unlike most reviewers, he isn't afraid to give a 'meh' review when he thinks a product deserves it- as he did with the AR planars recently, as well as the flagship AKG K812, the HD660S, the big-buck LCD4, and others. Most audio reviewers IMO are afraid to do the same, and have their supply of free audio equipment to nerd out on cut off.
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Tyll isn't the Moses of audio, bringing down the tablets from on high (and neither is any other reviewer). But I like to read him for several reasons. One, he's open about his preferences (for warmer signatures, for example), which IMO gives the reader a baseline to judge a headphone to an extent if they've had a chance to hear other things he's reviewed. Two, he provides measurements, which of course aren't the whole story, but are useful. And lastly, unlike most reviewers, he isn't afraid to give a 'meh' review when he thinks a product deserves it- as he did with the AR planars recently, as well as the flagship AKG K812, the HD660S, the big-buck LCD4, and others. Most audio reviewers IMO are afraid to do the same, and have their supply of free audio equipment to nerd out on cut off.
Good post, I dont read Tyll or any HP Forum they are too big, but we need more people like Tyll, inclusive I can say since the 1970s when I started read audio mags I have see no other like Tyll, no one, unless when TAS was small format and accept no advertisers.
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He's not perfect but he at least tries to be fair. And like I said, he doesn't look the other way when he thinks a product doesn't earn its asking price.
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Thoughts on this list?
Heh, the Bose Soundwear is #2, almost got #1!
I think the Clear at #1 is interesting. For one thing, it's a dynamic. Also, Tyll's statement "From now on I expect tonal balance from a $1000+ headphone." (Here (https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/over-ear-open-wall-fame-adjustments).) I suppose one might first wonder why that wasn't always the case. I continue to be surprised by the popularity of headphones with little bass and/or high bass distortion. I guess this is what happens when you get used to planars... but there's no reason for this to be inherent in dynamics either, as proven by some dynamics. So moving forward, it seems that the best of dynamics and planars are where the bar is.
I also think (you asked for thoughts ;) ) that it's good there's a wide range of prices in these lists. I haven't been as impressed as Tyll with some of his low-cost picks (<= 300) in the past but then again, I don't review headphones comparative to price, just to what I like and can afford.
Thanks for the link :thumb:
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Heh, the Bose Soundwear is #2, almost got #1!
I think the Clear at #1 is interesting. For one thing, it's a dynamic. Also, Tyll's statement "From now on I expect tonal balance from a $1000+ headphone." (Here (https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/over-ear-open-wall-fame-adjustments).) I suppose one might first wonder why that wasn't always the case.
Because most didn't deliver and/or didn't deliver enough performance overall for the extra cost... So maybe he assumed the designers couldn't do it?
I continue to be surprised by the popularity of headphones with little bass and/or high bass distortion. I guess this is what happens when you get used to planars... but there's no reason for this to be inherent in dynamics either, as proven by some dynamics. So moving forward, it seems that the best of dynamics and planars are where the bar is.
The best dynamics can challenge planars (planars aren't perfect despite marketing hype). The Beyer Amirons I bought recently are (IMHO) competitive with any of the sub-$1K planars I've heard (I've heard all the Hifiman and Audeze offerings) in terms of detail retrieval and bass performance. Dynamics aren't done. It's all in the engineering, in either case. I heard the $400 more expensive Elear at CAF '17 and preferred the Beyer for both sound and comfort.
I also think (you asked for thoughts ;) ) that it's good there's a wide range of prices in these lists. I haven't been as impressed as Tyll with some of his low-cost picks (<= 300) in the past but then again, I don't review headphones comparative to price, just to what I like and can afford.
Thanks for the link :thumb:
You're welcome; thanks for the thoughtful reply.
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...mine is the original HE400 and its hurts the head after 1 hour, I suppose the new versions are better, on the positive side its great w/analogue recordings.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51zxu3Rv1EL._SY300_.jpg)
This shows how much individual preferences can vary. To me, any headphone that 'hurts the head after one hour' is disqualified. It's disqualified because there are plenty of examples (even at moderate price points) to prove that it isn't necessary. I've been listening to my Beyers for two hours as I write this and am finding it necessary to make myself take them off and go to sleep so I'm rested for work tomorrow. I don't care how a headphone sounds if I can't even get through one CD with it. (To be fair, though, one hour beats my tolerance for most Grados by about 57 minutes.) You pays your money, you makes your choice, I guess...
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In true it dont reach 1 hour, I suspect my head is too big :lol:
I bought this ph over the internet, in this shit country there is no demo on shops, nor SENNHEISER offer demos here.
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Just curious, where do you iive?
Yeah, buying audio over the internet does bring some challenges, especially from more off-the-beaten-path places... Will it sound good; in the case of headphones, will it feel right. I auditioned the Beyer Amirons at Capital Audiofest before buying, so I had a pretty good idea what I was getting, but sometimes buyer's remorse sets in over time. Others' opinions, however well-intentioned, don't always agree with our own experience.
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This shows how much individual preferences can vary. To me, any headphone that 'hurts the head after one hour' is disqualified. It's disqualified because there are plenty of examples (even at moderate price points) to prove that it isn't necessary. I've been listening to my Beyers for two hours as I write this and am finding it necessary to make myself take them off and go to sleep so I'm rested for work tomorrow. I don't care how a headphone sounds if I can't even get through one CD with it. (To be fair, though, one hour beats my tolerance for most Grados by about 57 minutes.) You pays your money, you makes your choice, I guess...
Had the same issue re the HE400. Since it's an in-house can only I made this mod. Poor on the aesthetic side, most excellent on the comfort side. Hours go by, quite transparent. It's just foam padding sewn into super soft fabric.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174046)
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I enjoy reading the Inner Fidelity website. The insights provided by Tyll are informative, and I have learned a fair bit from reading his evaluations. Once you work out the reviewer's preferences, it makes it easier to apply your preferences regarding the evaluation.
Actually, I'm finding that evaluating headphones is a lot more involved than it appears on the surface. Headphone performance is very much influenced by the source driving them. I've auditioned quite a number of phones that get positive reviews that didn't sound all that great when using one's own source to drive them. Yet, with the right source, they can sound as good as the reviewer implied.
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Heh, the Bose Soundwear is #2, almost got #1!
I think the Clear at #1 is interesting. For one thing, it's a dynamic. Also, Tyll's statement "From now on I expect tonal balance from a $1000+ headphone." (Here (https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/over-ear-open-wall-fame-adjustments).) I suppose one might first wonder why that wasn't always the case. I continue to be surprised by the popularity of headphones with little bass and/or high bass distortion. I guess this is what happens when you get used to planars... but there's no reason for this to be inherent in dynamics either, as proven by some dynamics. So moving forward, it seems that the best of dynamics and planars are where the bar is.
I also think (you asked for thoughts ;) ) that it's good there's a wide range of prices in these lists. I haven't been as impressed as Tyll with some of his low-cost picks (<= 300) in the past but then again, I don't review headphones comparative to price, just to what I like and can afford.
Thanks for the link :thumb:
woooooo.. just sold my NightOwls. I think I'm going to give Clear a try! I've never really liked Focal sound in speakers though. Their bookshelves which were about to 5 grand when I demoed them sounded worst than the EA MicroOnes with their ribbons! I actually only remember 3 bookshelves sounding the same league as the EA MicroOnes + Chord Hugo driving them as DAC and AMP (Yes! Hugo was driving them completely fine NOT to concert levels but just enough volume and MicroOnes were I think 87db @ 6ohms) Anyway, It was 1. Raidho with some $20,000 SS amp I heard at audio show and 2. Sonus Fabre Olympicas with $5,000 amp at Magnolia and 3. DynAudio Signature series MKll with about $10,000 setup.
The only setup I would actually would replace was the DynAudio setup. Even though it was custom dome tweeter it sounded very transparent with lots of air and had tube sweetness even though it was running with SS setup.
But the real kicker is EA MicroOnes + Chord Hugo setup. It only cost me about $3,500.00 purchased both used. Audioquest Rocket 88 speaker cables which I bought retail I think $800.00, then custom made Kimbre cable hero IC's which tapped into the speakers cables then into the Hugo headphone jacks 1,2 and was playing! Whole setup was about $5,000 and it was in the league with $30,000 - $50,000 setup's and even then, every single of those expensive setup's at audio shows or retail store etc. only sounded different not any better, only different yes! I no longer have this setup but if anyone got any 5 grand laying around or is looking into getting a 2 channel setup this is the way to go 100%. Then with the money leftover get a SONY A1E 55inch OLED TV. Then you are set visually and auditory for a few years!
End ramble!
I really do hope Focal brought some magic with their headphone line because the speakers I heard were mediocre. It just had some ok dynamics and a little punch on the bass. For 5 grand nothing stood out. Kinda had that KEF ls50 punch with a little bigger sound. But even then the ls50 had more air to its sound sooooo.... I personally dont think it should retail no more than $1,500 but $5,000?....
Gonna try out the Clear headphones though lol!
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I enjoy reading the Inner Fidelity website. The insights provided by Tyll are informative, and I have learned a fair bit from reading his evaluations. Once you work out the reviewer's preferences, it makes it easier to apply your preferences regarding the evaluation.
Actually, I'm finding that evaluating headphones is a lot more involved than it appears on the surface. Headphone performance is very much influenced by the source driving them. I've auditioned quite a number of phones that get positive reviews that didn't sound all that great when using one's own source to drive them. Yet, with the right source, they can sound as good as the reviewer implied.
In my experience in last 1 - 2 year with numerous headphones just get a decent sounding headphone like a NightOwl, or Audeze
LCD line, or Hifiman or Senns etc, then go grab yourself a Moons Audio Silver Dragon V3 for your headphones and you are done lol! For some reason headphone cables make massive difference in the heasphone game, and all play on the same league/level with a good pair of headphone cables if it's a decent headphone to start! Sound my be a little different, mostly tone but everything else is pretty much the same. You defiantly won't get an upgradetitus with what I said and that's where it counts. iaudiophiles know what I mean!
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Had the same issue re the HE400. Since it's an in-house can only I made this mod. Poor on the aesthetic side, most excellent on the comfort side. Hours go by, quite transparent. It's just foam padding sewn into super soft fabric.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174046)
Nice.... I guess... but the 'pleather' pads would still 'kill the buzz' for me (all pads of this type give me the 'clammy' feel after a short time). Nice improv, but I am too lazy to redesign headphones; if the mfr didn't get it right to begin with, it's DQ'd, from my POV. My Amirons are one of the most comfortable cans I've ever worn, sound fantastic, and I didn't have to do a thing to them. Nice Schiit setup BTW.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175553)