AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: hoard on 4 Jul 2023, 02:21 am
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I saw the thread a while ago on the Cary Sli-80 was curious if anyone has used a Cary Sli-100 on them, thoughts, differences? I have kick ass solid state Odyssey now and was looking at tubes for these magical beauties. The Odyssey amps sound excellent and have massive punch, not sure what I am after anymore, am I missing something with tubes? I have only had the speakers a few weeks.
Thanks for any input.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=254359)
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Try a tubed pre. It will give you that tube love without losing any control over the drivers Odyssey's are known for. You should be able to find one that meets your needs used for a good savings. I had tubes in my phono stage and the pre. I like the tube front end stuff with solid state power, but that's just me. The Candela is tubed, and affordable. Call Klaus. :lol:
Good Luck,
JCarney
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I forgot to mention. I have the SS/tube Candela pre amp from Odyssey, does this qualify for tube, or are you saying go full tube in the pre amp, thanks
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Yeah, it qualifies. There are several tube integrated's just on the first page of amplification in the trading post, which the Cary is I think. There are more "traditional" tubed pre's I would guess, maybe one of those? I have not kept up with current offerings, so I don'y have a lot of recommendations for you. Elekit is good place to look. Good products and good prices.
JCarney
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McGary Audio SA-1E…. End game amp if your looking to gain that tube sound and not lose any low end performance.
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Those speakers deserve the best tube amp and tube preamp you can afford. Based on the speaker sensitivity, you'll need plenty of tube power.
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I've had Odyssey Kismet amp and really liked it. Still, I would try a tube amp and see for yourself. For the money, I'd look for a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP amp or integrated to start. If you get the amp only you can use the candela pre, but you should be able to find a good deal on a used Dialogue HP integrated. Heck, even the regular Dialogue Premium integrated or amp will have enough power to drive those speakers, and they cost a lot less to tube roll since there's 4 power tubes instead of 8. I've never heard Cary but everything I've heard from those who have experienced them is positive. Regarding the difference between solid state and tubes, once I've heard tubes I've yet to find a solid state amp that I prefer.
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Have you read the March 27 BePure2 + Tubes = Heaven thread? I had some doubts about the whole 'tube' thing myself and was quite satisfied with the BePure2s driven by my Mark Levinson No. 585. Curiosity prevailed and I tried an Ayon Spirit 3 integrated purchased used for $3K. Sold my Levinson for $4800 and never looked back. Still don't know if tubes are better than transistors, or just different, but the combination of tubes with the BePure2s is stunning. Not necessarily better than transistors or the Levinson, just different in ways I prefer. I am also guided by what Jim S chooses to demo the BePure2s with, that is, the McGary tube gear (and Anticables Flex 4.2 speaker cable, with I also bought).
The sensitivity and resistance of the BePure2s gives you lots of options. I use the Ayon in pentode mode, about 1/4th the power of the Levinson. No problem driving these things to 95+ dB. The folks at Raven have a home trial arrangement. Their Avian series Osprey (I think) for about $5K is something I had been looking for but they never come up in the used market.
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:o Thanks for all the info everyone, lots of good stuff here
Those speakers deserve the best tube amp and tube preamp you can afford. Based on the speaker sensitivity, you'll need plenty of tube power.
The Bepure2 are 90 dB, should be fairly easy to drive these?
I've had Odyssey Kismet amp and really liked it. Still, I would try a tube amp and see for yourself. For the money, I'd look for a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP amp or integrated to start. If you get the amp only you can use the candela pre, but you should be able to find a good deal on a used Dialogue HP integrated. Heck, even the regular Dialogue Premium integrated or amp will have enough power to drive those speakers, and they cost a lot less to tube roll since there's 4 power tubes instead of 8. I've never heard Cary but everything I've heard from those who have experienced them is positive. Regarding the difference between solid state and tubes, once I've heard tubes I've yet to find a solid state amp that I prefer.
Good call on the 4 tubes vs 8 tubes, always thinking more must be better, but that, could be an expensive nightmare, and yes. I am looking at the Prima luna also
Have you read the March 27 BePure2 + Tubes = Heaven thread? I had some doubts about the whole 'tube' thing myself and was quite satisfied with the BePure2s driven by my Mark Levinson No. 585. Curiosity prevailed and I tried an Ayon Spirit 3 integrated purchased used for $3K. Sold my Levinson for $4800 and never looked back. Still don't know if tubes are better than transistors, or just different, but the combination of tubes with the BePure2s is stunning. Not necessarily better than transistors or the Levinson, just different in ways I prefer. I am also guided by what Jim S chooses to demo the BePure2s with, that is, the McGary tube gear (and Anticables Flex 4.2 speaker cable, with I also bought).
The sensitivity and resistance of the BePure2s gives you lots of options. I use the Ayon in pentode mode, about 1/4th the power of the Levinson. No problem driving these things to 95+ dB. The folks at Raven have a home trial arrangement. Their Avian series Osprey (I think) for about $5K is something I had been looking for but they never come up in the used market.
I just read it, on a quest to get the best out of these speakers, the home trial thing looks awesome, looks like several companies are doing it, this is a great way to not get screwed thanks.
McGary Audio SA-1E…. End game amp if your looking to gain that tube sound and not lose any low end performance.
30 watts enough horsepower for the speakers? seems like it's on the low side, but 30 tube watts vs ss, yea.
Yeah, it qualifies. There are several tube integrated's just on the first page of amplification in the trading post, which the Cary is I think. There are more "traditional" tubed pre's I would guess, maybe one of those? I have not kept up with current offerings, so I don'y have a lot of recommendations for you. Elekit is good place to look. Good products and good prices.
JCarney
I think if I go tube. I will want all tube and not hybrid. I will check out the Trading post, Elekit is a bunch of parts you have to glue together :( or do they have finished stuff
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I saw the thread a while ago on the Cary Sli-80 was curious if anyone has used a Cary Sli-100 on them, thoughts, differences? I have kick ass solid state Odyssey now and was looking at tubes for these magical beauties. The Odyssey amps sound excellent and have massive punch, not sure what I am after anymore, am I missing something with tubes? I have only had the speakers a few weeks.
Thanks for any input.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=254359)
Thanks for starting this thread! I share many of your questions - my BePure2s are currently at 46% completion on the project tracking website. :hyper:
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This guide is listed on the BePure 2 product page:
Easy Load
At 90db (2.83 V/M), the BePure 2's are an easy load for just about any amp. 30 tube watts or 50 solid sate watts are plenty sufficient to drive them at relatively high SPL's.
https://www.salksound.com/model-bp.php?model=BePure+2 (https://www.salksound.com/model-bp.php?model=BePure+2)
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"I think if I go tube. I will want all tube and not hybrid. I will check out the Trading post, Elekit is a bunch of parts you have to glue together :( or do they have finished stuff?"
I believe Elekit it is pretty much diy, but I am not 100% sure. They come up in threads every so often and seem to be well regarded. I've always like Manley Labs stuff. I have a circa 1999 Stingray with all chrome chassis and gold faceplate. 50 watts per channel using EL84's. There are a lot of good tube integrated stuff out there to choose from. I'd look for something with a minimum 50 watts per channel or more just for the extra headroom. You just need to find what tickles your fancy.
Have fun,
JCarney
PS
For fun, you could look at Atmasphere's web page. They make a lot of powerful monster tube amps. Like hundreds of watts, it's a hoot to look and drool a little.
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:o Thanks for all the info everyone, lots of good stuff here
The Bepure2 are 90 dB, should be fairly easy to drive these?
Good call on the 4 tubes vs 8 tubes, always thinking more must be better, but that, could be an expensive nightmare, and yes. I am looking at the Prima luna also
I just read it, on a quest to get the best out of these speakers, the home trial thing looks awesome, looks like several companies are doing it, this is a great way to not get screwed thanks.
30 watts enough horsepower for the speakers? seems like it's on the low side, but 30 tube watts vs ss, yea.
I think if I go tube. I will want all tube and not hybrid. I will check out the Trading post, Elekit is a bunch of parts you have to glue together :( or do they have finished stuff
Regarding 30 watts for the McGary audio. That is using EL34 tubes and KT 77’s. And with those tube I have recorded peaks of 102 db at 4 meters, that is with the Bepure2’s . You can also go up to a KT 90 in those amps and get 50 watts. I would say this is a very conservative rating on Mikes part. This amp will power my SS 9.5’s and rattle the windows.
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Regarding 30 watts for the McGary audio. That is using EL34 tubes and KT 77’s. And with those tube I have recorded peaks of 102 db at 4 meters, that is with the Bepure2’s . You can also go up to a KT 90 in those amps and get 50 watts. I would say this is a very conservative rating on Mikes part. This amp will power my SS 9.5’s and rattle the windows.
How does the McGary amp do in terms of pressurizing the room with bass. That feeling that the bass is incredibly muscular and powerful, but at the same time subtle and balanced. That is, controlled.
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Listening to bass heavy tracks, I’ve never wanted for more ( running KT88’s ). His transformers are over sized for the output power. I’m guessing that’s why the bass performance is right up there with solid state. I have many different amps I’ve run with the Bepure2’s. I had Tyr mono’s on them at one time. I just keep coming back to this combo. I feel you lose nothing but the midrange and top end is well End game for me. I’ve been to Jim’s shop a few times and 2 things were never for sale. His Bepure 3’s and his McGary Audio SA2. The fact that he will not part with it speaks volumes.
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It also speaks volumes that you did a direct comparison with powerful solid state monoblocks, and then went back to the 30-watt tube amp with the feeling that you sacrificed nothing on the low end.
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They do make quite the pair.
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Has anyone heard the McGary amp with SS8s? Is the lower wattage an issue in that case?
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Hello Hoard,
At this level you really really need to listen to any gear in your own system. I currently use Spread Spectrum Technologies Ambrosia (SST) and Ampzilla Monoblocks in my system. For years I swore buy using a tube preamplifier but after using the SST Ambrosia I don't feel this way any more. So if you have the opportunity please listen to any new gear in your own system. Btw Odyssey is top notch gear :).
All the best.
Rod
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Here's an interesting amp from Whammerdyne in Portland, OR:
http://whammerdyne.com/product/circuit-salad-hybrid/ (http://whammerdyne.com/product/circuit-salad-hybrid/)
It combines a tube front end with a solid state output stage, and looks cool as well. :dance:
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no intension of derailing the thread, but this does involve a Cary SLP-05 pre amp (9 tubes including rectifier) feeding hot rodded Rogue M-180 monos that have been upgraded to "Dark" (7 tubes each)
I do not think you can wrong with either of the above. Tubes in the chain do make a difference (depending on your set up)
I'm kicking myself for not jumping on the red BePure 2s that just shipped to the southern hemisphere ... THAT must have cost a pretty penny
anywho, Rogue and Cary are providing exceptional energy/synergy to my Salk HT2-TLs.
SQ is clear concise and Oh soo sweet
Tubes?? Go For It !
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After searching and taking this thread in. I bought a Primaluna, yep.
I ordered it on Fri and it shipped, will have it Mon, pretty dam fast
EVO300
The Cary was more $ for the Sli80 with all the good stuff added, and once you add anything you can't do a 30 day trial
the Sli100 was about the same price, again, add anything, no trial, so no,
the Primaluna has a lot of built in good stuff and a 60 day trial, don't like it, send it back, pretty easy decision.
I asked Klaus about Primaluna when I was buying his stuff, he said, (good stuff) I value his opinion. I think he makes the best ss amps money can buy, and have no thoughts of selling my excellent Odyssey amps :thumb:
A lot of choices, but the Primaluna felt the safest
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After searching and taking this thread in. I bought a Primaluna, yep.
I ordered it on Fri and it shipped, will have it Mon, pretty dam fast
EVO300
The Cary was more $ for the Sli80 with all the good stuff added, and once you add anything you can't do a 30 day trial
the Sli100 was about the same price, again, add anything, no trial, so no,
the Primaluna has a lot of built in good stuff and a 60 day trial, don't like it, send it back, pretty easy decision.
I asked Klaus about Primaluna when I was buying his stuff, he said, (good stuff) I value his opinion. I think he makes the best ss amps money can buy, and have no thoughts of selling my excellent Odyssey amps :thumb:
A lot of choices, but the Primaluna felt the safest
Nice choice! I had a Primaluna integrated before moving to India two years ago. I only sold it because the power here is terrible and I didn't want to risk killing it with multiple power spikes and outages. My best friend currently owns (and loves) it.
I did several months of tube swaps to try and find the best sound for my GoldenEar One.R loudspeakers. I used every power tube from the stock EL-34's to KT-150's, and after many exhausting months of trial and error I found that Tung-Sol 7581A's were amazing! They just sounded "right". Vintage Brimar's up front sealed the deal. I never felt the urge to swap tubes again. Please update us on the sound when things get settled in.
Cheers!
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Congrats on the new incoming Primaluna. Let us know how you like it.
JCarney
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Rshorb having good luck with lower wattage tubes with the Bepure2 made the choice easier, and the 60 day trial is :thumb:
pretty excited to hear these with tube power
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Rshorb having good luck with lower wattage tubes with the Bepure2 made the choice easier, and the 60 day trial is :thumb:
pretty excited to hear these with tube power
Glad I could help out where I can.
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Congrats on the Primaluna. The Dialogue One integrated I had was my gateway into tube amps. I've now had at least 6-7 different amps but loved that first PL so much I also got a used Evo300 amp and I'm currently using it with no plans to ever get rid of it. I think the 300 will have plenty of power and since you only need 4 power tubes you'll have a lot of options for tube rolling (EL34 and KT88 still my favs). I also recommend upgrading the front two driver tubes. Just beware the tube rabbit hole you're about to go down!
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I did several months of tube swaps to try and find the best sound for my GoldenEar One.R loudspeakers. I used every power tube from the stock EL-34's to KT-150's, and after many exhausting months of trial and error I found that Tung-Sol 7581A's were amazing! They just sounded "right". Vintage Brimar's up front sealed the deal. I never felt the urge to swap tubes again. Please update us on the sound when things get settled in.
Cheers!
I prefer the KT88, EL34, KT77, and then 7581 in that order. Never warmed to KT120 or 150s. The 7581 is the bargain champ though. Very well balanced and great price. IF you can find the Sophia Electric blue glass EL34's, they are special sounding.
@hoard -- have you had a chance to listen to the PL yet?
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Got a couple hours of music in, sounds really good, better? not sure, different yes, too early for my ears to tell
I don't even have much time on the speakers yet either.
abd1 I hope this is not the Gateway to more amps, trying to stop :nono:
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I prefer the KT88, EL34, KT77, and then 7581 in that order. Never warmed to KT120 or 150s. The 7581 is the bargain champ though. Very well balanced and great price. IF you can find the Sophia Electric blue glass EL34's, they are special sounding.
When I did my listening sessions my two favorite tubes were the KT-77's and the 7581a's. I never tried KT-88's. For me, and on my speakers, the KT-77's were missing a bit of upper midrange bloom (I think that's the correct word to describe it). The 7581a's sounded best in that area that I'm really sensitive to. I sold my amp to my best friend before moving to India two years ago. He thinks just the opposite. He likes the KT-77's a little better and for the same reason. They are both fantastic tubes and really made that amp sound special. I haven't tried the Sophia Electric blue glass EL34's, but I am running Psvane EL34PH's in a LSA VT-70 Integrated I bought about a year ago when I missed having tubes in my system. They sound way better than the stock Psvane tubes it ships with. Pricey though and a pain to get through India customs. 30 day wait and the duty was 60% !!!
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Hi,
Just thinking about the preceding posts etc. What are we after when it comes to sound quality in your system? What is your preference? We all hear something different so you really need to know what your after when it comes to hifi components. I've had a lot of gear in my system over the years. Its my hobby...
I do know that Salk Sound speakers are unique in the hifi world due to their sound quality and finishes. That is just my opinion though :).
I value transparency above everything and I've tried the magic tube preamp/ss amplifiers for many years. IMHO It all comes down to the best sound quality you can afford. Does it really matter if it is SS or Tube?? I am.using SST Ambrosia preamp (with phono stage) and ampzills 2000 mono blocks and I"m more than happy with their performance but that is based on my listening preference and what I can afford. I've recently come across Naim Audio products which I've heard so much about over the years but I've never had any experience until recently. So many products to chose from...
So I think you really really need to listen to this gear in your own hifi system for an extended period of time and live with it for a while.
Good luck with whatever choice you make :).
Cheers Rod
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When I did my listening sessions my two favorite tubes were the KT-77's and the 7581a's. I never tried KT-88's. For me, and on my speakers, the KT-77's were missing a bit of upper midrange bloom (I think that's the correct word to describe it). The 7581a's sounded best in that area that I'm really sensitive to. I sold my amp to my best friend before moving to India two years ago. He thinks just the opposite. He likes the KT-77's a little better and for the same reason. They are both fantastic tubes and really made that amp sound special. I haven't tried the Sophia Electric blue glass EL34's, but I am running Psvane EL34PH's in a LSA VT-70 Integrated I bought about a year ago when I missed having tubes in my system. They sound way better than the stock Psvane tubes it ships with. Pricey though and a pain to get through India customs. 30 day wait and the duty was 60% !!!
I have those Psvane EL34PH's as well and they're excellent too. I could easily live with the 7581 and to me your description of the KT77 is applicable, but to me its a bit cleaner and more articulate than the EL34, with a touch more zip in the sound, but not as robust as the KT88. That LSA looks like a great bargain. I also have a Line Magnetic LM845, but I don't want to hijack this thread....
@Rocket.... I totally agree. Everyone has their favorite flavor of ice cream, which to me is what we're kind of talking about here. To me different tubes are like the toppings on the ice cream. I just know for me that I never understood the draw of tube amps and couldn't understand why someone would pay so much for a "low powered" amp that requires maintenance. I then I heard one and nothing was the same for me moving forward. I also learned that WPC is probably one of the most overrated KPI's in audio. So much of amp preference is speaker matching. One of the great things with the Bepure 2 is they're very versatile and can be used with almost any amp.
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Hi,
I know what your saying about watts etc. and kpi's. I bought my SST Ampzilla mono blocks specifically to power my Salk sound HT3's. They sounded amazing but the HT3's don't fit my room and that is why I've purchased Bepure 2's. But 300 watts is way overkill for the Bepure 2 speakers but I've invested so much money in my amps I'm not willing to sell them lol.
Cheers Rod
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Hi,
But 300 watts is way overkill for the Bepure 2 speakers but I've invested so much money in my amps I'm not willing to sell them lol.
Cheers Rod
Rod -
No such thing as too much power. You won't be using as much, so things will remain pristine with all that headroom. Should sound great!
- Jim
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Rod -
No such thing as too much power. You won't be using as much, so things will remain pristine with all that headroom. Should sound great!
- Jim
:thumb: :thumb:
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Rod -
No such thing as too much power. You won't be using as much, so things will remain pristine with all that headroom. Should sound great!
- Jim
When the speaker guy tells you that, you know you bought the right speakers 8)