LONGHORN GOLD1 AND GREEN1 CARTRIDGES NOW AVAILABLE!

Wayner · « **on:** 8 Feb 2010, 08:30 pm »

Audio by Van Alstine is pleased to announce the resumption of the Grado Longhorn cartridge product line! Being out of production for some time, along with a renewed interest in vinyl, Frank has decided that it is time to continue production, this time with a slight twist. 2 Two models will be offered, the traditional Grado1 Green Longhorn ($199) and now the Grado Gold1 Longhorn ($299)!

I have stepped up to the plate for this task, and with Frank's support (and confidence), will be manufacturing each and every Longhorn product, with best care and respect, devoted to each customer and cartridge.

The Longhorn product is available only thru Franks website, at www.avahifi.com (website update pending) or simply call 651.330.9871 to place your order or for information.

The Grado Green1 Longhorn (first production unit):

Regards,

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Feb 2010, 08:57 pm »

Brilliant!

Good luck on the resumption of Longhorn assembly by van Alstine

Wayner (and Frank)

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Feb 2010, 12:28 am »

Sweet!

Good job, Wayner.

Toka · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Feb 2010, 03:14 am »

Awesome!

mchuckp · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Feb 2010, 05:48 am »

Wayner could you expand a bit on the history of this product for those of us who are fairly new to AVA gear.

I have a Rega P1 (glass platter upgrade) with an Ortofon 2m Blue cart being fed into my T8 (w/ Insight phono stage). Been considering upgrading my whole table or just parts of it.

Thanks!

martyo · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Feb 2010, 09:38 am »

Good luck Wayner

baldrick · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Feb 2010, 12:05 pm »

Quote from: mchuckp on 9 Feb 2010, 05:48 am

Wayner could you expand a bit on the history of this product for those of us who are fairly new to AVA gear.

I have a Rega P1 (glass platter upgrade) with an Ortofon 2m Blue cart being fed into my T8 (w/ Insight phono stage). Been considering upgrading my whole table or just parts of it.

Thanks!

A writeup of the creation of the cartridge can be found here:http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_basics/ab_pdf/ab1982.pdf

Search the pdf file for the term "longhorn" and you will read about the idea and inception of the concept.

Although it does add mass to the cartridge / arm assembly and requires careful rebalancing of the arm the concept is interesting and if it didn't sound good it wouldn't be offered for sale again.This article dates back to 1982.

jrtrent · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Feb 2010, 11:57 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 8 Feb 2010, 08:30 pm

. . . or simply call 320.330.9871 to place your order or for information.

Is this the right number? I keep getting a message saying my call cannot be completed as dialed. I tried (651) 330-9871, just in case it's the regular AVA Hi-Fi number, but was too late to reach anyone today.

Lefty052347 · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 04:39 am »

651 330-9871 is the correct number.

Frank was still working when I left around 3:30 pm cst.

Regards,
Dean

jhm731 · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 09:08 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 8 Feb 2010, 08:30 pm

Audio by Van Alstine is pleased to announce the resumption of the Grado Longhorn cartridge product line! Being out of production for some time, along with a renewed interest in vinyl, Frank has decided that it is time to continue production, this time with a slight twist. 2 Two models will be offered, the traditional Grado1 Green Longhorn ($199) and now the Grado Gold1 Longhorn ($299)!

I have stepped up to the plate for this task, and with Frank's support (and confidence), will be manufacturing each and every Longhorn product, with best care and respect, devoted to each customer and cartridge.

The Longhorn product is available only thru Franks website, at www.avahifi.com (website update pending) or simply call 320.330.9871 to place your order or for information.

Regards,

Wayner

If you're doing all the manufacturing, why do you need to sell them thru Frank's website?

How do the Longhorns compare to the Grado Reference series?

jrtrent · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 09:57 am »

Quote from: Lefty052347 on 10 Feb 2010, 04:39 am

Frank was still working when I left around 3:30 pm cst.

I'll just pick up one of those telephone calling cards so I can place an order from work (I'll be able to get one after work today, Wednesday, then place my order on Thursday). I think it's terrific that Wayner's interest in reviving this product has led to AVA's being able to offer it again. I'll soon be enjoying a traditional Grado Green1 Longhorn!

Wayner · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 01:39 pm »

Quote from: jrtrent on 9 Feb 2010, 11:57 pm

Is this the right number? I keep getting a message saying my call cannot be completed as dialed. I tried (651) 330-9871, just in case it's the regular AVA Hi-Fi number, but was too late to reach anyone today.

Oops, my fault (old number). I use my speed-dial all the time.

Quote from: jhm731 on 10 Feb 2010, 09:08 am

If you're doing all the manufacturing, why do you need to sell them thru Frank's website?

How do the Longhorns compare to the Grado Reference series?

It is still Frank's product.

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 03:44 pm »

Otis, i think your comments would be more appropriate if then came after you had heard samples of the new Longhorn Green and Longhorn Gold that Wayne is building. He has the tools to do a much more precision job that we could do in the past and Grado has constantly improved the cartridges over the years too.

The cartridges have high output, user replaceable stylus assemblies, are very durable, have no significant tone arm wiring capacitive interaction, work in almost all tonearms, and almost all that have owned or heard them are very happy with them. Their only down side is that the are not recommended for turntables with unshielded AC motors.

We suspect there is nothing else out there in the new price range that is comparable.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

rcag_ils · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 04:11 pm »

The list price for the Grado green is $80, for the gold is $220.

So what makes the labor cost for the longhorn green $119, and the gold $79? I like to see the labor cost for the green has the same labor cost as the gold.

I am currently using Grado red, black and gold in different table and arm. The black has a brighter sound and less bass extension than the gold. I like them both

With the "improved" models, they should even sound better than before, without the longhorn, so it all depends on how much you want to get out of the extra cost for the longhorn.

avahifi · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 04:44 pm »

We are assuming, from previous experience, that we will have significantly more "rejects" from the lower priced Green than the premium Gold model. This is built into our price structure.

By the way, it is not all "labor costs". We have to buy the cartridges in the first place, pay for the tooling to make them, and loose some along the way. The price also includes a reasonable profit for us too, hope that is no big problem with you. Note that the dollar profit is higher on the stock Gold, so we are counting on that to keep the price as low as possible for the finished Longhorn Gold.

I would appreciate it if you would ask Wilson and Krell and friends about their cost and profit structure while you are at it.

Regards,

Frank

baldrick · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 04:59 pm »

Hey if you pay a skilled technician shop rates at $90 per hour the price increase is more than fair. I can see Wayner spending an hour on each cartridge for testing, assembly and retesting.
Besides, Frank made the mod public information. Do it yourself if you don't want to pay.

turkey · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 05:29 pm »

I've modded my own Grado cartridges, based on the article in AB, and also based on furhter info Frank gave out at one point.

I don't see that Frank or Wayner are charging too much for these. They're not going to be doing huge volume, so they're not going to get a major discount from Grado. Then, as they said, you lose some during the process. They also have to make a profit, and they have to provide support, and all the incidental costs that are part of running a business.

Don't buy one if you don't want to, or else try modding your own. But I don't see that you can really complain about the price.

As for how they sound, I'd say they're one of the best cartridges on the market. I'm not sure why people don't like Grado, unless it's that they're used to the skewed FR of moving coil cartridges and don't recognize when they get a cartridge that does things the right way. (Or maybe they've chosen speakers that make their moving coil cartridge sound "right," so they then don't like the result when a more accurate cartridge is used (or a CD Player for that matter).

ricmon · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 05:32 pm »

Quote from: baldrick on 10 Feb 2010, 04:59 pm

Hey if you pay a skilled technician shop rates at $90 per hour the price increase is more than fair. I can see Wayner spending an hour on each cartridge for testing, assembly and retesting.
Besides, Frank made the mod public information. Do it yourself if you don't want to pay.

Yha what he said.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 05:32 pm »

I can't believe my previous comment has been taken as "criticism".

My comment was based on the assumption that the same amount of work being put into two cartridges with the same physical design for two different pricing.

It's a very reasonable observation, and question, didn't mean to generate any animosity.

Wouldn't it piss you off that after you purchased a new TV, then found out that your neighbor had paid $500 less for the same TV at the same store at the same time?

Quote

Hey if you pay a skilled technician shop rates at $90 per hour the price increase is more than fair.

I would pay that for the green and the gold model, not $90 per hour for the green, and $120 for the gold for the same work. It's such a poor analogy

avahifi · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Feb 2010, 07:13 pm »

rcag_ils, since your assumptions were wrong as to the reasons for the costs for our Longhorn Green and Gold models, as explained above, I would appreciate it if your future comments would be about the musical quality of them, rather than invalid cost analysis guesses.

Again, ask the same questions of some of the $100,000 amplifier companies and $5000 power cord vendors.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine