[David Ellis]

These pictures are useful pics of the 1801F.  I thought increased visibility here might be helpful.

Thanks for taking them.





These are darn near identical to how I built my 1801F speakers.  Probably the only change that could be implemented is a thicker back & front panel.  I didn't do this, but the panel exhibits some knuckle resonance.  Thicker panels would be more solid.

To post an image in this forum simply insert the image URL beteen two "Img" buttons when submitting a post.

[salva]

Hi Dave, couple of Q abt the 1801F's ...

Bass Reflex port:

You made no mention of it's location, I guess that will be fitted on the back of the cabinet centered and low (near the floor).

- Is that correct ?

I gues that position will be not very critical.

Stuffing:

Now, I was "paranoid" abt stuffing the 1801b's and now is the same with the F's ... Being this speaker so tall, and having no access at half of the cabinet when is closed.

- How do you stuff the cabinet ?

Im doubting on stuffing the walls before closing the speaker, or just put stuffing inside, doing the latter will have the danger of blocking the BR port.

Midwoffer:

There is no mention on position of it, I guess that just centering ion the speaker and lower it say one centimeter from the edge of the tweeter will be enough.

- Am I correct ?

Salva

[David Ellis]

You made no mention of it's location, I guess that will be fitted on the back of the cabinet centered and low (near the floor).

- Is that correct ?

Yep, that's correct.  I put my near the floor.

I gues that position will be not very critical.

Yep, correct again

Now, I was "paranoid" abt stuffing the 1801b's and now is the same with the F's ... Being this speaker so tall, and having no access at half of the cabinet when is closed.

- How do you stuff the cabinet ?

I simply stuff the regon around the woofer hole with foam.  This is essentially the top, oh, 15" of the cabinet.

Im doubting on stuffing the walls before closing the speaker, or just put stuffing inside, doing the latter will have the danger of blocking the BR port.

Not much stuffing is needed to kill the midrange echo.  One VERY experienced guy simply uses a 5" diameter (approximately) wad of acoustastuff centered in the cabinet behind the midwoofer of his slim tower speakers.  This works great for him, but is certainly impractical for shipping speakers.  That acoustastuff would obviously move.

Midwoffer:

There is no mention on position of it, I guess that just centering ion the speaker and lower it say one centimeter from the edge of the tweeter will be enough.

Yep, you are correct again  

These are excellent questions.  You generally assumptions are very accurate!!!  Thanks for seeking confirmation herein  

[salva]

I guess that being an engineer I needed precise drawings, I become nervous in any project without precise specifications, so  that being the case with the 1801F I draw a crude drawing to help me, just in case if is of use to anyone here it is:

http://www.videoacustic.com/sferrairo/1801F/1801F.pdf

(sorry, measurements in centimeters, Europe here)

Salva

[David Ellis]

It takes me sooooo much time to do this kind of stuff.  I know it's easy, but I am a rookie with computer drawing and it takes me a long time to accomplish this kind of work.

The drawing was so good that I kinda... well... stole it.  I converted it to a picture so it can be viewed openly here.  Some picture detail is lost, but this will make the drawing much more visible here.  I'd hate to see someone miss the drawing.

[salva]

Hi, I'm in the middle of the completion of  two pairs of 1801F's, cherry veneered. You can see the photos here:

http://www.videoacustic.com/sferrairo/1801F/1801f2/

While glueing the veneer has been easier than I thougth, the difficult part has been the trimming of the venner, it has been impossible to avoid some "chipping" while trimming. I have used raw venner, the only thing available locally, indeed all the ppl that I've mentioned double ply or paper backed venner, where unaware of them.

- Any tip to avoid chipping of the veneer while trimming with a router ?

- Could anyone make a close up photo of double play and paper back veneer so that I can shoy to my local supplier  ?

Tks
Salva

[David Ellis]

My camera isn't viable for pictures, but the site for obtaining 2-ply veneer is this one:

http://www.tapeease.com/Home.htm

They have many pictures on their site.  Also, Veneer isn't very heavy.  You might consider ordering from Tape-ease directly.  I think they charged me $17 for delivering 1 sheet.  Veneer is pretty light and his packing methods are very solid.  He might ship overseas.   You will have to ask Dave at Tape-Ease about this.  I have ordered... oh... $2000 in veneer from him.  He is good business.

There are flush trim bits that cut up or down, but IME, a very sharp router bit is more important.  My veneer is fairly solid, but find much less chipping/splinter with a very sharp bit.  I have tried many different brands of router bits and find the bits from www.ridgecarbidetool.com superior.  The Amana carbide is a very close 2nd.  The rest of the carbide cutters sold at retail stores are mostly sub-par.  The bits from ridgecarbide a very good.  I have a single flush trim bit that is ONLY used for trimming veneer.  This bit obviously remains very sharp.

Hopefully these remarks are somewhat helpful.

[David Ellis]

I perused your pictures and have a couple thoughts.

You might consider using a foam roller to spread the contact adhesive.  Use two coats.  If you contact adhesive is extremely thick, you can thin the adhesive with lacquer thinner.  This helps me spread the contact adhesive very evenly and reduce veneer ripple.

Are you able to obtain 3M products?  If so, you might consider the 3M water based contact adhesive.  The stuff works great.  The stink is mild but the "stick" is amazing.  This stuff is really the best of both worlds.  Then.... if you are using raw veneer this might be a bad idea.  Some penetrating wood finish might cause the adhesive to come unglued.

You also might consider using a hard rubber roller to press the veneer.  I puchased one for about $13.  I think wallpaper guys use these things too.

And... your shirt is waaaaay to clean!  You really need to get more sawdust on that shirt!  My wife really apprecaites this.  She loves it when I "share" my sawdust with her and the kids.

Seriously, having a clean environment when veneering is very important.  Any spec of sawdust will telegraph through the veneer. Good work!

[JD From LA]

A low-tech approach to avoid veneer chipping might be to run some tape along the cut line.   The tape would "support" the tender veneer while the cut is made.

JD

[David Ellis]

I totally forgot about this.  Using tape on the veneer will help!

[salva]

OK, I tried the paper tape thing and really helps. The other tip I've to consider is the "applying" glue method, my method is time consuming and involves "huge" cuantity of glue. I will use 2.5 liters in two speakers wich is way to much.

Anyway this has been my first approach to venner and the second to speaker building, this is a learning process it is not hard once you know but getting there takes time.

Just for the record I estimate that to do a full set of 1801f's from zero to finish will take me 30 hours, so don't take this as a "weekend" proyect but as a "summer holiday" one.

Seeing the amount of time it takes me I'm amazed of the low prices cabinet makers charge.

Bye from now.

Salva

[David Ellis]

This timeline sounds about right.  When building 1801 cabinets in groups of @ 5-8 pair it still takes me about 20 hours to finish a pair of 1801s.  Building a single pair of 1801Fs should consume about 30 hours.

I really thought that I'd get much faster at cabinet builing after streamlining my methods.  My methods are quite effecient, but still consume considerable time.

I have learned that MANY cabinets are made in SE Asia.  Those guys obviously work VERY cheap.

[salva]

Hi again, I've reduced the size of the photos so that will be easy for low slow connections ppl to see.

I've added a few ones so that you can see more on the process of building them.

http://www.videoacustic.com/sferrairo/1801F/1801f2/

And by the way, that's me    working with the 1801f's



Salva

[salva]

OK, I posted a retaled issue on a separated thread, but I will keep it to the 1801F since it is 1801F related.

I've been doing experimentation with different finish, I wanted to keep the natural "caracter"  of the wood.  The one that I liked the most was red cherry tinted wax, applied by hand.

http://www.lakeone.net/

Attached are a 1801F with sealer only (rigth) and one with three wax coats.



Hope you like them.

Salva

[David Ellis]

In the past I used Wax too.  I actually tried several different kinds of wood finish wax.  I found the floor-wax with silicon the best, but this is certainly only my opinion.  Wax will produce a very nice even sheen in VERY little time.  Wax requires some re-application a couple times per year, but this isn't terribly tedious.  Possibly for this reason wax received a "bad" reputation as a furniture finish, but I kinda like the stuff.

I think the only real downside to wax is that it's a very poor vapor barrier.  Wax will allow humidity to solid lumber.  The obvious impact is expansion in high humidity, and contraction in low humidity.  The importance of the is not critical depending on climate and completely nullified when using veneer on MDF.  

Wax can be a very smart finish choice.

[salva]

Finished, pleased with the result. A couple of photos just for fun.





Salva

[David Ellis]

Salva, the finished results look very clean.  

I do notice one of the speakers doens't align perfectly with the cabinet.  I suppose the floor could be slightly uneven, but the bottom of the speaker could also be uneven. If the latter is true, I suggest using some rubber/felt pads on the bottom of your speakers.  Place one of these pads in all 4 corners, then file/sand these pads  until the speaker stands correctly.

Dave

[salva]

Yes, the base is sligthly uneven but I did not bother me, I've ordered spikes to both raise the speakers from the floor and level them.

I had plans since the beggining to use spikes.

The only thing that I've noticed is that the bass is less "bommy" than the 1801b, I have not played with the BR thougth.

I will measure response on the next few days, I'll post the results.

Salva

[salva]

I've done a small php script  to make a thumbnail show so that it will be easyer for anyone to see the process of the 1801f construction.

http://www.videoacustic.com/sferrairo/1801F/1801f2/thumbs.php?1801F/1801f2,100,73,8

Salva

[salva]

OK, been using the 1801F's for aa few days now .. sound is very lean that is true for the bass as well. The 1801b's that I did had a more "boomy" sound the F's are more natural with a greater bass extension but the b's have a more "expetacular" sound with certain music.

In both cases BR length is kept to the full length Dave supply.

I will like to get from the F's some of the bass that I got from the b's ...

- What BR port length is ppl using on the F's ?

- Do you think that reducing the port I will get a more "boomy" sound ?

Salva