[hifiguy]

It is past time.

Where (should) I start?

HFG

[Evoke]

It is past time.

Where (should) I start?

HFG

First off - it's not a simple task. You need to really love the speaker. It won't be cheap, and you need to be pleasantly crazy


That said, come up with a gameplay. Outside of cosmetics, you are most likely to deal with several things.


1) Drivers - do they all work? More than likely, they need new surrounds. (That can be done - there are lots of people.)


If drivers are bad - you need to replace all that are the same from both speakers so they match. Getting an exact replacement is most unlikely, and they won't match acoustically at this point anyway.


2) Crossover. The easiest upgrade is to upgrade the caps in the direct signal path for the mid and tweeter. Since you are going to do this, just do it the right way as you won't be going inside that speaker again anytime soon. For the sake of budget, until you pick a brand, think $50 a cap... VMPS uses 6db/oct XO's, so that's one per tweeter bank, mid bank, and mid bass if you desire.


See if those ideas help a bit. I'm sure the crowd will chime in with great ideas. John Casler is the resident VMPS man and has a lot of resources for parts.


Mark
EVOKE

[PMAT]

 Oh hell yes! One of a handful Of truly dynamic loudspeakers. Bass that is better than almost every subwoofer out there. First do an assessment. Start pulling out drivers and your DMM and see what’s working and what’s not. Yes there’s a lot of drivers but this is fun stuff. Refoaming drivers is easy.  After your first one it just gets easier. Crossover parts are a piece of cake. Thank God they’re not fourth order super complex crossovers.  Ask for help here on the forum if you have a driver that doesn’t work and you have trouble sourcing. Good luck with everything and please take lots of pictures and post your progress often. 

[Stimpy]

Check with Pat Malaga.  He should still have some woven carbon fiber woofers, that would be an upgrade.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/pinole-home-and-car-audio/6998690251.html




Also, Brian was using a 15" Goldwood woofer, in his last series of subs.  It might be worth considering too?  Four and 8 ohm versions, depending on what you'll need.

https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-15pc-8-15-heavy-duty-woofer-8-ohm--290-338

https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-15pc-4-15-heavy-duty-woofer-4-ohm--290-336

And I agree with the suggestions of upgrading capacitors.  That alone, can make a huge difference in sound.  Madisound, Parts Connection, Parts Express, and Sonic Craft sell very good capacitors.  I like Mundorf film caps.  But Audyn, Jantzen, ClarityCaps, and SoniCap, and others, all have good sounding capacitors.

Good luck.

[Evoke]

Check with Pat Malaga.  He should still have some woven carbon fiber woofers, that would be an upgrade.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ele/d/pinole-home-and-car-audio/6998690251.html




Also, Brian was using a 15" Goodwood woofer, in his last series of subs.  It might be worth considering too?  Four and 8 ohm versions, depending on what you'll need.

https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-15pc-8-15-heavy-duty-woofer-8-ohm--290-338

https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-15pc-4-15-heavy-duty-woofer-4-ohm--290-336

And I agree with the suggestions of upgrading capacitors.  That alone, can make a huge difference in sound.  Madisound, Parts Connection, Parts Express, and Sonic Craft sell very good capacitors.  I like Mundorf film caps.  But Audyn, Jantzen, ClarityCaps, and SoniCap, and others, all have good sounding capacitors.

Good luck.

Stimpy, Ren here


Yes - I must reiterate what you say about Caps... Huge opportunity. Now I'll add 2 cents. Choosing is important. If you have a very diverse collection of sources - some good and some great, you need to consider how analytical you want to go. Also, matching the caps to the drivers is important. Having spent a LOT of time matching caps and planars - I've found Mundorf Supreme an excellent choice. I've used some Clarity - but that made sense in a very specific application in combo with Mundorf. My newer designs favor the Silver/Gold - but they are very revealing and a pricier.

[Evoke]

It is past time.

Where (should) I start?

HFG

This is a very old article - but still very valid and useful...    https://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

[Stimpy]

 

Stimpy, Ren here

 

Yes - I must reiterate what you say about Caps... Huge opportunity. Now I'll add 2 cents. Choosing is important. If you have a
very diverse collection of sources - some good and some great, you need to consider how analytical you want to go. Also, matching the caps to the drivers is important. Having spent a LOT of time matching caps and planars - I've found Mundorf Supreme an excellent choice. I've used some Clarity - but that made sense in a very specific application in combo with Mundorf. My newer designs favor the Silver/Gold - but they are very revealing and a pricier.

I totally agree.  I love the Mundorf caps.  I've mainly used EVO Oils.  But, I have a few spots were I spent for Supremes and Supreme Silver/Oils.  Very much worth the cost.  And while I liked the ClarityCap CSA and ESA caps I've tried, I've found they have a very distinctive sound, that took getting used to.  Warm, but a very pronounced upper mid suck out, that made vocals very closed in.  A Mundorf and a paralleled Clarity would probably work well together, to open them up.  A synergistic cascaded circuit.

[Evoke]

 
 

I totally agree.  I love the Mundorf caps.  I've mainly used EVO Oils.  But, I have a few spots were I spent for Supremes and Supreme Silver/Oils.  Very much worth the cost.  And while I liked the ClarityCap CSA and ESA caps I've tried, I've found they have a very distinctive sound, that took getting used to.  Warm, but a very pronounced upper mid suck out, that made vocals very closed in.  A Mundorf and a paralleled Clarity would probably work well together, to open them up.  A synergistic cascaded circuit.

Yes, they complement each other in certain driver matches - for example - the NEO 3 and a fast mid-woofer. I spec Mundorf shunted over Clarity in my Ruby speaker. It's a more complex crossover, not 6 db. I wanted to try to save money to hit a price point - but the combo actually cost more. But it was worth the difference in sound. It's not subtle - even a non-audiophile can hear the difference.

[hifiguy]

More?
 

[hifiguy]

 .... also need a local 40291 cabinet / speaker repair audiophile with skills and the right power saw to cut off the top of the speakers to get at and replace the leaky PRs.

[hifiguy]

Any inputs??

[RSorak]

You've never stated exactly what you found right/wrong w them. Hard to give advice w/o adequate information.

[hifiguy]

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Need is as you would suspect for VMPS IIa/R SEs that are now 32 years old.

I am wondering about the crossover caps but I am not certain regarding the SE Black Gates.

Tweaks may be considered too but other than an anti-vibration mat I am unaware of more.

Visual on drivers now seem all okay.

ANY suggestions would be appreciated. I find myself working from home these days and have time (no commutes) to explore these big guys again.

[hifiguy]

 ... since we are all home these days - any thoughts on my project?

Crossover caps are Black Gates I believe, and Power Line internal wiring (SE designation). Do they NEED to be replaced (Black Gates)?

Speakers all seem okay. PR on the top have been replaced as they leaked.

Rest seems fine. Need to hear them obviously and as yet the system is minus a source (CD player). Search there is on.

What you all think of the replacement Black Gates would be very gratefully acknowledged!

SP

[ZAKski288]

I agree with RSorak, not enough info on your part. Hello hifiguy, black gate capacitors are normally electrolytic type capacitors, not used in speakers. Maybe you should take a picture so we know what we’re dealing with.

[RSorak]

As a general rule the caps used in speakers do not suffer with age. At this point you need to listen to them....Hard to believe you're trying to fix speakers you haven't listened to.

[Stimpy]

... since we are all home these days - any thoughts on my project?

Crossover caps are Black Gates I believe, and Power Line internal wiring (SE designation). Do they NEED to be replaced (Black Gates)?

Speakers all seem okay. PR on the top have been replaced as they leaked.

Rest seems fine. Need to hear them obviously and as yet the system is minus a source (CD player). Search there is on.

What you all think of the replacement Black Gates would be very gratefully acknowledged!

SP

Black Gates are electrolytic capacitors.  Unlike poly, they do age and fail over time, especially if over-driven.  So, I'd recommend a refresh.  Lot's of good brands of poly caps to choose from.  Sites like Madisound, Parts Express, Parts Connexion, and Sonic Craft, all offer good caps.  Read the Humble Homemade Capacitor reviews as well.  Lot's of good info there too. 

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

[davidc1]

.... also need a local 40291 cabinet / speaker repair audiophile with skills and the right power saw to cut off the top of the speakers to get at and replace the leaky PRs.

Curious why you need to cut anything open. I have Super Towers from 1981. All the drivers, including the Passive Radiator, are just screwed in. Once you take out the PR or the big woofers, you have open access to the inside of the speaker to get to any other parts or crossovers.

I built mine from a kit, back when Brians speakers were a little simpler. It was easy.

[ZAKski288]

The top passive radiator was installed when the cabinet was built. So the only way to repair it is to cut the cabinet to remove it.

[davidc1]

Hmm....this unit was offered as a kit originally. So how did they get it in there in the first place? I would think the top wood panel above the top slot is probably glued or screwed in?