[brother love]

Thanks rodge827, OzarkTom, Freo-1 & Mister Pig for your kind words.  All of your excellent & informative TBI Millenia MG3 reviews & commentary intrigued me to give this one an audition.

I have been a budget audiophile for 35 yrs. now & love the journey to audio nirvana.  It can be a long road with lots of twists & turns (& likely a dead end or two); but ultimately you find a sweet spot, or at least a happy medium of budget/ equipment synergy/ room limitations. It’s all about getting caught up in the music that stirs the soul.

As Mister Pig noted prior re: tubes ... I am in the camp of “tubes required” somewhere in the component chain. To my ears, the majority of “solid state only”  systems exhibit some form of harshness/ glare that detracts from my personal musical enjoyment (different strokes for different folks though).

The TBI Millenia MG3 is one of those rare instances where with the right equipment, tubes are not required. 

[rodge827]

The TBI Millenia MG3 is one of those rare instances where with the right equipment, tubes are not required. 

So true! 
I hope to have one in my system soon. 

[Shogun]

I wonder if the Teddy Pardo PSU could be a alternative for those who don't want to mess with battery?

[Rclark]

When I think back to the months I spent with the N1X, it's easy to see why the TBI and the N3 would make a great pairing. You get a very pleasant sounding, detailed amp combined with the almost luxuriously detailed Neo tweeter and Danny Richie Crossover. Probably excellent with electronic music, jazz, rock, anything with a rich texture. The N's don't need a lot of power either.

[OzarkTom]

I hope every one  here had a safe and happy Thanksgiving.

I guess we should get this tour back on track. The hold-up has been the holidays and Morgan had to leave town. An AMR fuse was sent to him and hopefully he has received it by now. If you have any questions Morgan on which fuse to replace, feel free to ask.

About two weeks ago I received a pair of $25K speakers that is 4 ohm and 84db efficiency. These are the lowest distortion and grain free speakers that I have ever heard. So how does the TBI sound on them? Incredible.

The speakers are so grain-free, my AC glare has completely disappeared. This was very educational for me. I never thought that owning the right speaker could ever clear up AC glare.   I have tried several tube amps, but on these ultra-linear speakers the TBI is claerly more faster, transparent and detailed.

So now I have a $32K system being driven by a TBI MG3 amplifier.

[genjamon]

And what's the speaker?

[persisting1]

I hope every one  here had a safe and happy Thanksgiving.

I guess we should get this tour back on track. The hold-up has been the holidays and Morgan had to leave town. An AMR fuse was sent to him and hopefully he has received it by now. If you have any questions Morgan on which fuse to replace, feel free to ask.

About two weeks ago I received a pair of $25K speakers that is 4 ohm and 84db efficiency. These are the lowest distortion and grain free speakers that I have ever heard. So how does the TBI sound on them? Incredible.

The speakers are so grain-free, my AC glare has completely disappeared. This was very educational for me. I never thought that owning the right speaker could ever clear up AC glare.   I have tried several tube amps, but on these ultra-linear speakers the TBI is claerly more faster, transparent and detailed.

So now I have a $32K system being driven by a TBI MG3 amplifier.

What reference amp do you pair with those $25k speakers that you compare the Millenia with?

[OzarkTom]

What reference amp do you pair with those $25k speakers that you compare the Millenia with?

The JOLIDA JD 3000A Tube Mono Block Amplifiers and a $8800 custom Set amp.

[tabrink]

Interesting thread that has changed my attitude toward audio nirvana.
I have a plethora of IceBlock mono amps, Eastern Electric integrated, vintage Crown amps, Anthem power houses, Vandersteen Maggie etc and a modded TBI. A houseful of a lifetime of buying.
I stress and switch stuff around and buy a new cable or more room acoustics and have come to realize I have several really good sounds and they are all quite close in quality.
What I have found and it is liberating is that I am off the amp , DAC and speaker merry go round for good because my system sounds very good and it is  enough. Liberating.
My little TBI integrated , Audio by VanStine DAC and SAM 1 monitors from AJ are better than good enough they are a sweet sounding rig. And all of the other stuff can be inserted at will for fun.
Back to the point that it feels great to be off the buying merry go round and not stressing over 5 more percent of audio nirvana.
Well until Seth brings out the new Virtue stuff.

[persisting1]

The JOLIDA JD 3000A Tube Mono Block Amplifiers and a $8800 custom Set amp.

Sorry if I've missed this, but are you saying that the Millenia beats your $8800 amp or that it's one of the best amps for the price?

[wisnon]

I am not here to make any excuses for the TBI, but in my 32 years experience, I never heard a solid state amp to tame the AMT Heil tweeters. In fact, I never heard any tube amps tame it.

A close friend of mine back in the early 80's used those tweeters, but they were heavily modified. He was more of a solid state fan than a tube fan when I was a dealer, I took numerous solid state amps over, Acoustat, Bedini, Sumo, Bryston, Threshold, Perraux, and more, but those tweeters always burned my ears off. We finally tried Marantz 8B's, that came the closest, but I always heard the metallic sound of those metal drivers. I wound up taking in a couple of pairs of the ESS AMt-1B speakers over the years, and I never had any luck in taming those highs or the boomy bass.

Speed forward to the RMAF 2011 audio show and lo and behold, the Heil rep was staying the same hotel my wife and I were. I guess I had figured this company was no longer, but I was wrong. I hunted down their room, figuring by now they had tamed the high end. I stepped into their room and was out of there in three seconds. If I had stay any longer, I would have had a splitting headache.

On Heil tweeters, SS is still definitely a no-go IMO, no matter how expensive of an amp you try.

Tom, the Heil is NOT a metal driver. All AMTs use some kind of film material with metal strips bonded so the fold rapidly within the intense magnetic field. It is essentially a mylar/kapton/some type of thin film substance. The better ones use better film material.

Oh and by the way, ESS is NOT "Heil". The only Heil company is Heil AMT from Switzerland, known as Oskar in the US.

[OzarkTom]

Sorry if I've missed this, but are you saying that the Millenia beats your $8800 amp or that it's one of the best amps for the price?

In comparison to photography, the TBI gives me about a 18MP photo where the tube amps is more of a 10MP photo. The tube amps are more grainy, rolled off in the high end, and a little wooly in the bass. That is the character of tube amps with transformers. Also, the TBI is definitely quicker.

Now if anything is lean and bright in your system, the TBI is not going to sugarcoat it and make it wamer.

[Freo-1]

In comparison to photography, the TBI gives me about a 18MP photo where the tube amps is more of a 10MP photo. The tube amps are more grainy, rolled off in the high end, and a little wooly in the bass. That is the character of tube amps with transformers. Also, the TBI is definitely quicker.

Now if anything is lean and bright in your system, the TBI is not going to sugarcoat it and make it warmer.

I mostly agree with Tom's view on the TBI, but I'll throw out the following caveats: 

The TBI is somewhat speaker dependant, so the wrong speaker will come across with some grain and glare.  The right speakers will generally sound excellent, with a very open soundstage, and just a bit of extra presence (similar to,but not quite like a tube amp).
Also, if you listen to a lot of heavy classical music (think Mahler's 5th),  one may find on loud passages that massed strings/horns may have an edge to them that does not sound entirely natural.   However, play something along the lines of Cannonball Adderly's "Something Else", and you will be floored with the performance.  For the majority of music, this amp is very musical.

Now, keep in mind that these are the only issues I've noticed with the Millenia.  I'm still keen on this amp, and at it's price point, is truly top performer. For anyone in the market for a high quality lower powered amp (especially on a budget),  it deserves a serious audition. 
 

[OzarkTom]

I agree with Freo-1 in a way, classical can get strident, but I feel it is the recording itself. I have several cuts with orchestras that you will never hear a more natural sound in your life. Many of the older recordings are done with tube mics and I have never heard any problems with these classical recordings being played with the TBI amp.

If you ever expect Telarc recordings to sound natual with any neutral amp, you are wasting your time. I spoke with a recording engineer from Telarc back in the 80's and he told me why their recordings never were  that great. It was from bad digital mics and recording techniques.

[wushuliu]

Based on my tinkering with the TBI chip and similar they are extremely sensitive to power supply caps. If at all possible I would recommend to both increasing the cap value (not too much though) and trying different types like Elna Silmic, Cerafine, Nichicon FG, etc. This goes for both the caps by the chip as well as the input voltage. Considering some of the mods being done already by some it is worth doing/having done and the caps are inexpensive compared to typical audio mods surely. This may help with any remaining glare as well as up the sound quality in general. Can't overstate how sensitive these TPA chips and similar are in this regard.

[OzarkTom]

Based on my tinkering with the TBI chip and similar they are extremely sensitive to power supply caps. If at all possible I would recommend to both increasing the cap value (not too much though) and trying different types like Elna Silmic, Cerafine, Nichicon FG, etc. This goes for both the caps by the chip as well as the input voltage. Considering some of the mods being done already by some it is worth doing/having done and the caps are inexpensive compared to typical audio mods surely. This may help with any remaining glare as well as up the sound quality in general. Can't overstate how sensitive these TPA chips and similar are in this regard.

Jan told me the input caps are .47uf films and the front headphone jack is really a 3.5mm input jack with the same characteristics as the rear RCA jacks, in case some DIY'ers here needs to know.

[brother love]

"... However, play something along the lines of Cannonball Adderly's "Something Else", and you will be floored with the performance.  For the majority of music, this amp is very musical. "

Excellent choice Freo-1, I love this album ! "Autumn Leaves" is a standard cut I use for auditions/ reviews of equipment incl. the TBI Millenia MG3.  Miles Davis & Cannonball Adderley have really tasteful, laid back solos; but Art Blakey's drum work, specifically brush strokes & light cymbal action are great sonic textures to enjoy & evaluate equipment subtleties.

I totally agree the MG3 shines w/ this source material particularly since there is a "hissy" high end background on the opening of Autumn Leaves likely due to volumes being cranked-up on the sound board to pick up subtle details.  This can be very harsh with some components, downright unlistenable; but not w/ the MG3. 

Which leads me to another point...  I hate pronounced sibiliance from any audio equipment or source material.  The MG3 is like a tube amp in greatly minimizing this annoying characteristic.

[Freo-1]

I agree with Freo-1 in a way, classical can get strident, but I feel it is the recording itself. I have several cuts with orchestras that you will never hear a more natural sound in your life. Many of the older recordings are done with tube mics and I have never heard any problems with these classical recordings being played with the TBI amp.

If you ever expect Telarc recordings to sound natual with any neutral amp, you are wasting your time. I spoke with a recording engineer from Telarc back in the 80's and he told me why their recordings never were  that great. It was from bad digital mics and recording techniques.

Tom, Telarc has cleaned up their game over the last few years.  One of the absolute best recordings I own is this one:

 
This is absolutely incredible sounding on SACD.  I also have a very recent Telarc recording of the Nutcracker from the same symphony that sounds excellent.   So, it's not the recordings at issue.  I think it's the speaker's interaction with the amp.  Why just heavy symphonic music is like this, when just about everthing else sounds great, is a mystery at this juncture.
 

[morganc]

So true! 
I hope to have one in my system soon. 

I've been hoarding the tour MG3 for the last few weeks and am loving it so far.   I agree that it has many tube like qualities and it really shines in my system which is a Mac Mini--Audiphileo-->metrum Octave--> Alnic L-3000-->MG3-->Zu Definitions.   Tonight I'm comparing it to an Art Audio PX-25.    The MG3 is a bit more laid back than the PX-25, but it does have much of the realism, large soundstage, and live like quality of my set amps.  Considering the price differential, it is a pretty amazing bang for the buck amplifier. Without A\B ing the amps (I have a Coincident Frankenstein 300 in addition to the PX-25), I've enjoyed the MG3 since I first plugged her in.   With a direct comparison to these top of the line SET's she comes up a bit short on soundstage width and depth, and is a bit more laid back than I would prefer,but overall, especially of vocals the Millenium does a lot of things very well.  If you are a vocal fan, then this amp competes very well with the best SET's!  I'll try to do a better comparison tomorrow.  Any song requests?   Questions? 

[wisnon]

Yes,
Karen Carpenter: Yesterday once more, Only Yesterday and Calling occupants of interstellar craft.
Barb Streisand: Have yourself a merry little Christmas
Mormon Tabernacle Choir: Hallelujah and Onto us a child is born.