M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction

Jprod · « **Reply #340 on:** 14 Mar 2020, 07:36 pm »

There is no redesign. Clayton already answered this in a post on the Florida show thread. I copied it below

Re: Florida Show Results - Spatial / LTA / Lampizator / AntiCables
« Reply #4 on: 24 Feb 2020, 12:09 am »
Quote
Hi Guys,

I made the baffle on both models slightly smaller to allow Fedex shipping rather than truck freight. There was not enough space inside the baffle for the crossover, hence the box mounted on the base.

Clayton

sockpit · « **Reply #341 on:** 14 Mar 2020, 07:56 pm »

I won't argue over the meaning of "redesign."

But the "bottom" of the M series is now differently constructed than when mine shipped. I suspect the thing the crossover box is sitting on is integrated into the structure of the base. Mine was just a heavy L bracket and two spikes going directly into the wood.

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #342 on:** 14 Mar 2020, 09:34 pm »

We know the base of the M3 was redesigned and its overall height and width were shortened. But not sure if there were any changes to the M5. If the M5 had to ship by freight then perhaps it did. I have read many horrible reviews of freight companies with these kinds of shipments. In my experience FedEx is much better. I was fortunate that I did not have significant issues with my M3 with freight. But it was supposed to arrive on a Friday and I got a call on a Monday and they said they were delivering the next day 3 days early. Had to work from home that day because the delivery range was so wide. After the speakers had arrived in Omaha the tracking still said the speakers were in Utah.

sockpit · « **Reply #343 on:** 15 Mar 2020, 12:20 am »

I don't know what exactly the M5s now look like. I think Clayton said both models were changed to take advantage of better shipping options.

I hear you about Freight Companies. Mine was fine, but I made the mistake of reading Yelp reviews when they were shipped, and was bracing for the worst. The worst never came though. They were in their window and slipping the two guy some cash got them up to my first story unit in a jiffy.

Fed Ex is likely more reliable all around. Don't know what their damage coverage is like. It's technically not insurance, I've read.

Terence T. · « **Reply #344 on:** 15 Mar 2020, 08:41 am »

Thanks to Jprod, Sockpit and SnowPuppy77 for your explanations of the M Sapphire so-called redesign. Really appreciate your effort and perhaps Clayton can shed some light on this topic?

Terence

loki7177 · « **Reply #345 on:** 15 Apr 2020, 08:33 pm »

I received my M3S a week and a half ago and they have the new design and are also a painted color. I see some people have asked about this finish and wanted to see the new design so here are some pictures. According to Clayton the reason for the redesign is so the speakers can be shipped via FedEx, probably for lower costs and faster transit times. So instead of standing straight up 90* perpendicular to the floor and metal feet they are bolted to an MDF base. There is a metal box mounted to the base that probably houses the two toroidal inductors. The baffle is angled back slightly, about 6* by my guess, so that the speaker won't tip forward. There are three cone spikes on the base, two in the front and one in the back.

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #346 on:** 15 Apr 2020, 08:45 pm »

Your white M3S are stunning!

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #347 on:** 15 Apr 2020, 10:07 pm »

Those look really good. Congrats.

Shakey

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #348 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 07:51 pm »

Do you actually own a pair of M Sapphires that you have tried these on? Comments like "much more transparent sound" seem pretty exaggerated and frankly theoretical.

Don_S · « **Reply #349 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 07:54 pm »

"2. Bi-wire the speaker.....this is a no brainer. You simply remove the bananas from the back of the tweeter and install a second set of cables from your amp directly into the banana holes in the tweeter. The tweeter signal path will be much shorter and purer. You will be eliminating the WBT binding posts, the wire from the binding post to the output connector on the xover box, the output connector and the wire to the tweeter (that runs inside the speaker) to the tweeter. You will get much more transparent sound, this way. And you can tune the sound of the speaker by the type of tweeter wire you use. Of course, this could be put back to stock in 10 seconds...."

Ric,

You might want to stop messing with other people's designs. Item 2 is very bad advice. There is at least one capacitor limiting the excursion of the tweeter. Your suggestion removes that protection and the speaker cannot be put back to stock in 10 seconds if the tweeter is blown.

Spatial Audio · « **Reply #350 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 08:00 pm »

Ric Schultz,

Ok - I have had about enough of this. Over 10 years of tweeking comments like this - way back to the Emerald Physics days. You don't own a pair of M Sapphires, so conjecturing about changes are of no value at this point. It can be misleading to readers not familiar with tweeking. Any product can probably be improved in some way, but as a manufacturer, my company must be responsible for everything we do and say. You, on the other hand, can just tell someone to change a component or change the design without any accountability. This nonsense has been going on way too long and should be called out. I am sure you are a nice guy, but please stop the irresponsible recommendations. Posting on the Open Baffle Circle as DIY is probably more appropriate and even better would be that you introduce your own speaker and show us all how do it correctly.

Clayton Shaw
Spatial Audio Lab
www.spatialaudio.us

sockpit · « **Reply #351 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 08:00 pm »

I’m going to try to remove the drivers completely so they don’t mask pure sound . . .

But seriously, Clayton is right. You’ve got no real skin in my speaker’s game.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #352 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 08:05 pm »

Don S,
There is no cap in series with the tweeter. There is no protection on the tweeter (that I know of). Clayton clearly states that the tweeter is run direct.

Spatial Audio · « **Reply #353 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 08:09 pm »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 18 Apr 2020, 08:03 pm

No, I do not own a pair of these speakers. But I have done every mod I suggest to various speakers and these things are universal.....you will hear "different" sound with each of these mods. i think this "different" is more transparent and real. You can find out for yourself what these things do by trying them.....then you will have direct experiential evidence (assuming you believe what you hear). I am the person that started all the Magnepan modding.....again, without ever owning one or modding one. Back in the late 90s, I suggested a bunch of mods to someone in Chicago and they did the mods and found them all great and that is how MUG (Magnepan Users Group) got started. My first rule of tweaking is to remove everything that is not needed (since no single part is perfectly pure so the more parts you eliminate....the more pure the sound). The Spatial Sapphire series is the first speaker in the history of the world to have no xover on a tweeter (as far as I know). You are going to get way more pure sound by not having coils, caps and resistors in the signal path. Amazing......what he has done....hats off!

Ric Schultz

Your last sentence tells me you don't understand how the design works.

Clayton

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #354 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 08:13 pm »

Clayton,
I don't understand your statement. Your lit.....and what you have said, is that the woofers have coils in series with them and the tweeter has nothing in series.....what do I not understand? Is there more to it that you have not revealed?

Spatial Audio · « **Reply #355 on:** 18 Apr 2020, 08:17 pm »

Ric Schultz,

I actually misread it - sorry - thought you were saying it would sound better if we removed all of the caps and coils. Doesn't change my point anyway. Please go to DIY Land and stop wasting everyone's time on a nice Saturday afternoon.

Clayton

lcd54222 · « **Reply #356 on:** 22 Apr 2020, 03:43 pm »

Well, after reading everyone's posts and quite a bit of deliberation trying to decide between the M3s and the M5s - I ordered a pair of M5s in Sapele yesterday afternoon (Clayton is a pleasure to work with). This will be my first foray into OB speakers. I have a couple of friends with Linkwitz Orions which sound impressive, but I'd rather not deal with active crossovers and multiple amps - thus Clayton's approach of no crossovers spoke to me (simpler is better!). My dedicated listening room is pretty small, 10' x 11', so I felt the M5s should be more than adequate. My current speakers are Wilson Audio Duettes driven by a Pass Labs XA-30.8 amp. This is a very resolving and accurate system with a large, deep soundstage. I listen primarily to jazz and some classic rock on either vinyl or digital depending on my mood. The speakers should arrive next week - I'm so

looking forward to hearing them! Larry

jazzman463 · « **Reply #357 on:** 23 Apr 2020, 12:59 pm »

Hi Larry, beautiful set up you have there. I think the M'5's will work well in that space. Interested to see how they compare with the Wilsons. I have them in a 12 x 13 room and enjoy them thoroughly. I look at them as large monitors. They will take a while to settle in. They work well with jazz particularly with drums and cymbals. I listen mostly in near field. Enjoy.

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #358 on:** 23 Apr 2020, 01:11 pm »

It will certainly be interesting to see how a pair of M5 Sapphires can follow Wilson Duettes. Can't wait to hear.

Shakey

lcd54222 · « **Reply #359 on:** 23 Apr 2020, 08:32 pm »

Thanks, I can't wait to hear how they compare either!

Will definitely keep ya'll updated. In doing a quick check of the location of the speakers I found my room's a little bigger than I thought - 11' x 12' (still pretty much a one butt room). The front baffle of the speakers are about 42" out from the front wall, 3' in from the side walls and about 8' from the listening position.