AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Selah Audio Owners => Topic started by: Rick Craig on 20 Mar 2020, 02:06 pm
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Sandcast resistors? No bracing? Are these problems or not?
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I would use non-inductive resistors. They sound better to me.
Bracing IMO is not definitive with better. It has to be tested with ears. It can move box resonances into bad regions when they're not in bad ones. In fact if the sidewalls are slightly lossy it can help not vibrate the tweeter as much, which will make a speaker harsher.
I would put SecondSkinz on the back of the waveguide, put in non-inductive resistors. Other than that I doubt you're going to have real gains.
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I would use non-inductive resistors. They sound better to me.
Bracing IMO is not definitive with better. It has to be tested with ears. It can move box resonances into bad regions when they're not in bad ones. In fact if the sidewalls are slightly lossy it can help not vibrate the tweeter as much, which will make a speaker harsher.
I would put SecondSkinz on the back of the waveguide, put in non-inductive resistors. Other than that I doubt you're going to have real gains.
I've measured both types of resistors. Sandcast types typically have a small amount of inductance and at frequencies that would be very difficult for many listeners to hear. Response variations in the tweeter itself are greater than this. That said, I typically don't use sandcast in tweeter sections but they are suitable for use in other areas of the crossover.
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Link for context: https://youtu.be/ZJO-DoYoEZw
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Link for context: https://youtu.be/ZJO-DoYoEZw
No measurements in the review?
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Buchardt was offering crossover upgrade (wasn't cheap). Don't have any more details.
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Buchardt was offering crossover upgrade (wasn't cheap). Don't have any more details.
I think the best upgrade would be a different design. I wouldn't waste money on trying to modify this speaker. That's also true of many other speakers that are modified. It's better to invest the extra cost of the modification in a speaker that is optimized from the start - plus you don't have to spend your time on the labor.
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Link for context: https://youtu.be/ZJO-DoYoEZw
Sorry Ron - I missed the video that has the measurements. I'm wondering if something went wrong as the response curves are quite different from that of the manufacturer and another independent test that I came across. Did you or Danny measure these?
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Hi Guys,
As to "Sandcast Resistors" utilized within a crossover...here are some considerations that many emerging audiophiles may not realize...perhaps? :
Sandcast resistors cost less than a dollar and are obviously at "the low cost point" of what we see in any audiophile speaker, in terms of "what could be utilized" inside a crossover design. It is possibly true that this ultra low cost part could not actually affect the overall sonic picture of the speaker’s performance, maybe? Or at the very least, it may not be easily detectable? However, I feel that this is a BIG assumption when we do see a Sandcast resistors in most audio speakers, even very high priced offerings. Let me explain further...
Let's compare the cost of going with a great resistor in the crossover, like a Mills for instance. This is one of the very best resistors a designer could opt for in terms of sonics. And, the cost difference to opt into a Mills is just about $2.00 more! In nutshell, where else anywhere in high end audio can a designer opt from a basic "it may be O.K. sounding part" into one of the absolute best sounding parts, period? For just a few dollars? Really? Why?
As a side-note, the use of Sandcast resistors can be found in a very large percentage of audiophile speakers, not just the Buchardts. Hence, it's really sad to see even $10,000+ speakers that go this route using Sandcast Resistors in their crossovers as well. In my humble opinion, when someone spends many thousands of dollars on their speakers, they are actually expecting the designers to not save $2.00 on using a meager "it's an O.K. sounding part". When comparably, with just two bucks of additional expenditure, they could have gone with one of the best sounding parts! UGH! :duh:
For anyone that actually wants to help the entire speaker industry move forward, it is all up to YOU. Crossover parts quality is one area that still needs to be carefully scrutinzed by all of us. I still see cost savings versus sonic improvements with using much better parts a serious problem in much of high end loudspeakers. My suggestion for all reading this post - When inquiring with speaker companies about their designs, or the dealers, prior to actual purchase decision, ask more questions about their crossover network. Examine the parts quality that they have chosen! Particularly the use of something that can be upgraded for just a few bucks (like the Sandcast, for example). The result will give us all better sounding loudspeakers as they now realize that audiophiles are actually scrutinizing the parts quality chosen for the speaker’s crossover itself!
End result - Everybody wins with better sounding loudspeaker offerings! :hyper:
Cheers,
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
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I agree, parts quality is important. Obviously good design is the most important thing. But parts quality is important too.
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:D the real test is plug one in and see if you can hear a dollars worth of improvement. :duh: what is the designer thinking trying to save $ 1.00 . Seems very silly. :D
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:D the real test is plug one in and see if you can hear a dollars worth of improvement. :duh: what is the designer thinking trying to save $ 1.00 . Seems very silly. :D
It's more than $1. :D
Seriously, if you have a budget to follow you have to decide where the money is spent.
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It looks like Audio Science Review has the S400 in for testing.
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:D the real test is plug one in and see if you can hear a dollars worth of improvement. :duh: what is the designer thinking trying to save $ 1.00 . Seems very silly. :D
Yup. Every sandcast we replaced made a sonic improvement. The "king" was the Duelund resistor.
charles
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Yup. Every sandcast we replaced made a sonic improvement. The "king" was the Duelund resistor.
charles
How did you do the comparison?