AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => The Culinary Circle => Topic started by: EdRo on 23 Mar 2017, 11:52 pm
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Anyone try one of these Wicked Edge sharpeners???
https://youtu.be/mzL41ygQG0o
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I have one and use it quite a bit for reprofiling and touch-ups with the strops that come with the Pro Packs.
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I have the wicked edge system. Takes some practice as the learning curve is a little steep. Great results when you master it.
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Hey!
Hmmm... I've never seen this one before. I've seen a similar jig system one of the chef I work with bought in to work and honestly I was not impress by it.
So, I think I'll stick with doing it the old fashion Japanese water stones (500, 1000 and 6000 + a diamond plate) But that's just me and of course use whatever works best for you :D
Take care,
Buddy
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I've been teaching kids to sharpen knives and axes for more years than I care to remember. Get yourself a Norton India stone, fine and medium, and learn how to use it. If you're sharpening chisels or plane irons, then you'll need a hard Arkansas stone to go with it. Don't make this harder than it really is. Japanese water stones are nice, but they don't stay flat, are incredibly messy and are generally a pia. Just my opinion, based on many years of experience.
Doc
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I haven't used it but I know the guy that makes them. He knows his stuff. Over the last few years Clay has made a lot of refinements to the system. My main criticism of the device is that is uses a clamp. That makes it easy and pretty foolproof but with very large knives you will have to unclamp and move it at least once. Plus the design of the clamp prevents going extremely low/sharp angles. However, it will go down to single digit per side which is enough for all but the thinnest Japanese "lasers". The stock abrasives/stones are not the best but there's a robust aftermarket of stones, strops and assorted abrasives. WEPS supports the product very well and the warranty is very good.
If you want a relatively simple yet powerful and versatile sharpener it's well worth considering.
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I've been teaching kids to sharpen knives and axes for more years than I care to remember. Get yourself a Norton India stone, fine and medium, and learn how to use it. If you're sharpening chisels or plane irons, then you'll need a hard Arkansas stone to go with it. Don't make this harder than it really is. Japanese water stones are nice, but they don't stay flat, are incredibly messy and are generally a pia. Just my opinion, based on many years of experience.
Doc
I have to disagree! :lol: India stones are virtually worthless for some of the newer alloys out there- it barely scratches them. They're also very very slow. While they don't dish like waterstones they also aren't even remotely as fast. And it's not really difficult to flatten a stone. You're right- they do a good job on axes and carpenter's planes but if you're sharpening kitchen knives the India and Arkansas stones leave a lot to be desired, IMOHO. :thumb:
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Your first mistake is using exotic steels. Absolutely useless. They're pretty and expensive, and that's about it. You don't need that kind of thing to cut meat and vegetables. As far as chisels and plane irons go, do you know any one besides some Japanese plane maker that charges an arm and a leg for his product that makes them with exotic steels?
Doc
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Well, I've been a professional chef for over 25 years so I think I have a pretty good handle on what I need to cut meat and veggies. :wink: To be fair I suppose your average duffer that just cuts up some onions for sloppy joe once a week has different needs than a professional cook and is probably well served by Cutco, etc. But us guys that swing a knife fifty or sixty hours a week have different demands. One of my favorite knives is a 240mm gyuto in M390. It will go for three months between sharpenings, something I can't say about any common, garden-variety blade steel. For comparison used the same way I would get a week or two out of VG-10, maybe three weeks out of Aoko.
I can't comment much about planes, etc. Dad was a carpenter but my woodworking skills are rather limited by comparison. I know a bit about the techniques but you don't want me building your cabinets! :lol:
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How many professionals do you know that use crazy, expensive, exotic knives at work? Oh, I have credentials too. My grandfather was a cooper and my dad a butcher and grocery store owner. I can make a pail and process a side of beef, all with very serviceable tools, not the most beautiful or exotic.
I have no problem with someone buying conversation pieces, but a tool is a tool. It needs to be utilitarian and work without a great deal of aggravation and last a good amount of time. A $100 knife, a steel, and simple whet stones will do that.
I use my Henckels every day, three times a day and they only see a stone once a year. Perhaps you should learn to use a steel.
Doc
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Good conversation. "Subscribed".
Looking forward to sitting on the sidelines and listening to y'all hash it out! :thumb:
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.....back to the topic at hand. I don't have the Wicked Edge system, but I've heard good things. I have the EdgePro Apex, which I love. If I ever replace it, I would be looking at something like this:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200431964_200431964?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Power%20Tools%20%3E%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Accessories%20%3E%20Blade%20Sharpeners&utm_campaign=Work%20Sharp&utm_content=156115&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5o9YHrdeqWPzO414-t3G2CadafYMK8nZy1xu_gWb2VLhoC_XPw_wcB
There ARE advantages to a beveled edges.
And as far as professional Chefs and knives go, I have yet to deal with a Chef that DIDN'T have a favorite knife made of exotics. If they deal with Fish (sushi), most or ALL of their knoves are.
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How many professionals do you know that use crazy, expensive, exotic knives at work? Oh, I have credentials too. My grandfather was a cooper and my dad a butcher and grocery store owner. I can make a pail and process a side of beef, all with very serviceable tools, not the most beautiful or exotic.
I have no problem with someone buying conversation pieces, but a tool is a tool. It needs to be utilitarian and work without a great deal of aggravation and last a good amount of time. A $100 knife, a steel, and simple whet stones will do that.
I use my Henckels every day, three times a day and they only see a stone once a year. Perhaps you should learn to use a steel.
Doc
I know, conservatively speaking, dozens of other chefs that use high quality knives. A common 'steel' is essentially a file; fine for entry level knives like Henckels and Wusthofs but not appropriate for higher end cutlery and harder steels. Again, in at least ten years of sharpening professionally as a side gig I've sharpened (conservatively) about a thousand knives ranging from $800 Nubatamas (mine) to $12 cheapies, and I didn't use any kind of oil stone for any of them. On the lower stuff from Forschner to Henckels I usually use a belt grinder. I don't bother with sharpening by hand unless a knife is worth my time and effort.
I suppose it depends where you draw the line and start calling a steel "exotic". Years ago VG-10 was considered "Supersteel". Now it's entry level for Japanese knives. There are very good alloys that simply do a better job than the lower end stuff you see in most German knives and Wal-Mart stuff. By exotic I don't always mean new and high tech- some of the best steel is based on older types. Hitachi Blue Paper and White Paper is superb, as is Super Aogami, and they've been around for awhile. But you don't usually see them in knives made outside of Japan so in that sense they're still "exotic" in a way.
If all I did was cut up cows I could use a twenty dollar knife and not complain. But I'm not cutting Quarter Pounders in half, I'm doing intricate food prep and butcher of seafood. The biggest problem I have with the German knives are that they're thick as an axe. Nearly every knife in my kit is 2mm at the choil or less.
I really don't care what you use- knock yourself with my blessing. But don't confuse you not having a use for something with it having no use. I guarantee that if you walk into the kitchen in the best restaurants in your market you're going to see some higher end cutlery unless the best place near you is Red Lobster. :wink:
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.....back to the topic at hand. I don't have the Wicked Edge system, but I've heard good things. I have the EdgePro Apex, which I love. If I ever replace it, I would be looking at something like this:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200431964_200431964?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Power%20Tools%20%3E%20Sharpeners%20%2B%20Accessories%20%3E%20Blade%20Sharpeners&utm_campaign=Work%20Sharp&utm_content=156115&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5o9YHrdeqWPzO414-t3G2CadafYMK8nZy1xu_gWb2VLhoC_XPw_wcB
If you go with a WS, get the Ken Onion version. It's a lot nicer for not a lot more money.
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I guess I should also point out that when you sharpen knives for money you need to be able to sharpen whatever you get. If someone brings in a rusty old Sab there's no problem- anything can sharpen that. But if someone brings in a knife made of ZDP-189, HAP40 or high zoot Carpenter steel I need to have abrasives that can cut the carbides (that can be between 67 RC and the lower end of the Moh's Scale). If for no other reason it's prudent for me to have Atoma plates and stones like the Shapton GlassStones that can cut virtually anything out there. Plus CBN, poly & mono diamonds, etc for polishing.
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*Bump*
So it seems S Clark knows a thing or two about sharpening a knife.
I've also found out that he's equally good at spending other peoples money. :lol:
Under his direction, advice, and mentoring, I'm now the proud owner of a sharpening system.
I've got an Edge-Pro Apex 1, with stones in the following grits:
220 - 400 - 1000 - 3000 - 5000
I've successfully sharpened a couple of my Henckels and some Old Hickory blades to 5k.
Gotta say, that I've never cut a tomato like that before! :o :lol:
My next purchase, once another infusion of expendable cash comes in, I'll be shopping for some Japanese blades.
In the mean time, I'll keep playing with my "Old Hickory" and Henckels. :thumb:
Here's the blade porn.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k60/BobinStLouis/Food/Knives/DSC_0002_zpsxmbgysuw.jpg) (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/BobinStLouis/media/Food/Knives/DSC_0002_zpsxmbgysuw.jpg.html)
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I have a wicked edge system - it's very nice but be careful after you sharpen your knives. A super-sharp knife will go through a finger as easily as a tomato.
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I also have an Edge Pro Apex with even more wet stones. I decided that for as infrequently as I will be sharpening knives at home that the odds of me becoming really good sharpening freehand is unlikely. The Apex does a fine job with a small amount of practice.
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Edge Pro Apex owner here too. It sharpens my knives perfectly for my needs and it's easy to use. When it's not in use, which is most of the time, it stores neatly and easily.
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Glad that the sharpening is going well. Edge Pro makes it hard to screw up.
Next step will be actual angle measurement via your cell phone app or buying an Angle Cube, then comes the finer stone, the leather and diamond paste, a better knife, another better knife, $$$.
And to say that I know a thing or two is about right, I know a couple of tips, but Rob is the Knife Edge Zen Master whose knowledge knows no bounds. :thumb:
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Sharpening can rival audio as a money-pit hobby! :o :lol: :thumb:
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Anyone try one of these Wicked Edge sharpeners???
https://youtu.be/mzL41ygQG0o
Looks like the old Landsky Knife sharper http://lansky.com/index.php/precision-sharpening-kits/
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I'm not a professional chef, but I appreciate a decent blade and my wife and I use Japanese knives to prepare every meal. I don't need blades as exotic as Rob uses, although I sure appreciate them! My favorite knives so far are made from VG-10 steel by Shikegi Tanaka. They're my favorites because at Rockwell 62, they sit in a good place between the virtues of edge holding and ease of sharpening. Plus, at $150-$200 each, they're a good value as far as I'm concerned. I can mix up a slurry with a Nagura stone on a ceramic toshi and get a decent edge quickly, then finish with rouge on a leather paddle strop. If I use the paddle strop regularly, I don't need to use the stones too often, maybe every two or three months. I use a good Chinese cleaver to cut meat and other heavy duty tasks so that cuts down on wear and tear on the other blades. I've got harder Japanese steel that does hold an edge longer, but it's more difficult to sharpen as you know.
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Howdy,
I'm new to the forum and noticed this conversation. I've run hundreds of knives through my Edge Pro and love it. I prefer it to the Wicked Edge for variety of reasons, but I know people who love it too.
I have one correction. A thumb is much much easier to cut than a tomato.
I'll also add that exotic steels are expensive, but generally not pretty. I suspect you are referring to Damascus blades. Those can be exotic, but often are old traditional high carbon steels, and they get sharper than anything I've ever worked with except obsidian.
I like the Work Sharp ok, but mine is no longer used. It's far better than nothing which is what most people do, so I applaud that, but it was just ok. I couldn't get it to stop rounding off the tips of my blades, but mainly the edge it produces is nowhere near the edge I get using my EP.
Mike
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I have an apex sharpener but i can't really master it. Seems a lot easier then it appears.
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Mike, welcome to our little corner of the internet! :thumb:
STS, there are a couple good videos out there regarding the use of the Apex.
If it would help you, I'll find them and link them here.
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I have an apex sharpener but i can't really master it. Seems a lot easier then it appears.
There is a learning curve. The first knives I did were the sharpest knives I'd done to date. After about 100 I was much better.
Some of it is just developing a feel for it, but here are some tips:
I no longer use the stock stones. I much prefer Shaptons.
Get the stop collar to reset the angle for each stone and get an angle cube to make sure you are in a reasonable ballpark.
Make sure you take the first stone far enough to ensure you have set a good edge. (a cheap diamond plate helps with this)
Use a sharpie and a magnifier. Helps to see what you're doing.
Flatten your stones more often than you think. I know one guy who flattens before each knife. I'm usually once per 5-10.
Start with chef knives and santukos, they're easier to keep steady than little ones, and knives with big flat faces that can register solidly on the table are easier than double bevels or convex sides.
Mike
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Has anyone seen this sharpener? This thing looks sweet!
https://youtu.be/pf3rc98dsA0
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Has anyone seen this sharpener? This thing looks sweet!
https://youtu.be/pf3rc98dsA0
I got 2:00 in, and left.
It's gotta be a major reason for me to trash the system I've got.
I like his presentation, but... I had to go...
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Here's a better presentation?
https://youtu.be/Qy2x9PjSCeA
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That's better. Still only made it 3 min in. :lol:
Looks like a quality unit though, but I'll stick with mine, it's served me very well.
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Looks like one of these
(https://images.cdn.whathifi.com/sites/whathifi.com/files/styles/big-image/public/brands/news/2016-apr/transrotor-artus.jpg?itok=TO1GZ5gs)
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:lol: It does!
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Well...I...LIKE...IT!!! :roll:
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Well then BUY ONE! :thumb:
I mean no offence, I just like mine and not willing to buy anything else right now.
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Looking for entry level sharpening.
Home cook, far from a chef. Have a few double Henkels etc. Even a couple of Cutco’s :o!
Looking for coaching on first sharpening tool. Whetstone?
For an audio comparison I’m looking for a $30-50 boombox, not a high end set of separates I need to sell a kidney for!
Thanks boys.
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I'm one of those duffers trying to learn how to use whetstones. I got separate stones but you can get combination stones. https://youtu.be/pAdBQuonYRI
There are more budget options for stones, knife manufacturers apparently not the best value in stones.
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I have used probably every possible knife sharpening system. In the end, for kitchen knives, I use a steel, as it's quick and effective, and easily stored / used as you cook.
For sitting down and putting an edge on a knife, some form of whetstone or oilstone works best in my opinion, but certainly they are not the only options. Diamond stones are an alternative, and there are Lansky or Lansky-like systems that attempt to provide a consistent angle, or motor-driven sharpeners, which are effective but aggressive and that's your expensive steel they are eating, to a simple carbide that will put an edge on anything in seconds but is very aggressive at removal of metal.
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Sharpening is all about consistency in hitting the angle. If you are hand sharpening, a set of angle guides can be quite helpful, and they're cheap.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anguforshst.html
If you can't master hand sharpening, move to a good system. I"m pretty good at hand sharpening, but moved to an EdgePro to get a bit better results. But I'd simply PM Rob. He sharpens professionally, and he knows more about it than anyone else here. He'll probably tell you it's about how serious you want to be, much like many topics here.
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Anyone want a sharpener for Shun Knives?
Cost- $100. $20. shipped.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194812)
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Is that thing electric? :o
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I use a course steel and a fine steel. Both are about 12" long. They work great.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=194813)
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Is that thing electric? :o
Yes.
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I use a course steel and a fine steel. Both are about 12" long. They work great.
I like that bottom knife!
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You need one of those, Bob. Your santoku is a great all round knife, but for chopping vege's a nakiri is made to fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-NZo_4c_5Y
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Late to the party. I bought an Edge Pro "Pro 3" kit and slowly learning how to use it. Right now I'm having a little bit of a consistency problem. Some knives come out great, others not as good as I would like. I'm using the Sharpie method to find the right native angle on the blade, but I guess I just need more practice. I plan to replace the stones with Shaptons sometime soon. So far I'm glad I bought it - even the blades that come out not as sharp as I'd like are still better than when I was using those electric machines you find in the retail kitchen stores.
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Late to the party. I bought an Edge Pro "Pro 3" kit and slowly learning how to use it. Right now I'm having a little bit of a consistency problem. Some knives come out great, others not as good as I would like. I'm using the Sharpie method to find the right native angle on the blade, but I guess I just need more practice. I plan to replace the stones with Shaptons sometime soon. So far I'm glad I bought it - even the blades that come out not as sharp as I'd like are still better than when I was using those electric machines you find in the retail kitchen stores.
Did you buy the optional "stop" collar? It makes working with an edgepro much more consistent.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/5drstcowhexk.html
With the stop collar, you don't have to adjust for variations in thickness of different stones as you move up your stone progression.
Other than that, make sure you flatten your stones periodically.
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Not yet. That's also on my list of things to buy.
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I like that bottom knife!
I have the Dojo Hayashi 165mm nakiri. It is a sandwich construction - there is an inner core of high carbon AS or Aogami Super steel, which is clad on both sides with stainless. For $75, I can't complain. It really does a good job of getting sharp and staying sharp. Doesn't win awards in looks though.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/dojousuba165mm.html
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I've sharpened about a hundred knives on my Wicked Edge system, I find that the knives aren't any sharper than when I started, but rather I am a LOT faster :lol:
I got the travel version back in the day as it's very portable, I just use a C-clamp to clamp it down to whatever table I happen to be at. Then I sharpen using 100/200 and then jump to 800/1000 to sharpen. I mostly do work knives (kitchen) so I don't try to put a polish on the blade. Polished blades look great but I find that leaving a few microscopic 'teeth' on the edge gives the best result when cutting things like tomatoes or meat.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1477/6356/products/WE100-nobase-20170908_1024x1024.png?v=1525368498)
I do think their new version of the "Pro" sharpening system looks very cool too:
(http://www.classicusc.com/resize/Shared/Images/Product/Wicked-Edge-Generation-3-Pro-Sharpener-WE300/Gen-3-Pro.jpg?bw=1000&w=1000&bh=1000&h=1000)
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Is there a knife-lovers thread around here??? My stone progression is Chosera 400/800/3000, Uchigumori J-Nat
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7899/33588570158_c8cf91179f_c.jpg)
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:o
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Of the horizontal group of 4 on the right - those with the mottled looking blades. I don’t know what that is, but I LOVE that look.
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Is there a knife-lovers thread around here??? My stone progression is Chosera 400/800/3000, Uchigumori J-Nat
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7899/33588570158_c8cf91179f_c.jpg)
That is a very impressive collection of Knives! You are either quite the enthusiast or do cooking at a very serious level (Professional Chef?).
Do you sharpen them yourself? If so, what do you use?
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He listed the Chosera stones and the Japanese natural polishing stone. That should take him to as fine an edge as he could want.
Jeez, what is that? 18-19 Gyutos?
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Holy Mother of Knives ! :o
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That's actually a few more than I have! :thumb: