AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: AverageNiceGuy on 24 Jan 2021, 03:06 pm
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Woohoo!
Danny put an SVS Ultra Bookshelf on his upgrade table!
https://youtu.be/Y3SRBFZx7Yc
The SVS Ultra Bookshelves were my first decent speakers.
Then I got and upgraded the Carnegie CST-1's that he offered.
Now the SVS Ultra's are second-best.
I am excited that he may soon offer an upgrade kit for the SVS Ultra Bookshelves!
:popcorn:
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I am shocked they have that Huangtai cheap yellow colored caps in there .
Nice bracing and driver though . But, almost all to waste because of those caps.
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Upgrade has been ordered!
Wooohooo!
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Awesome! Looking forward to your thoughts on the upgrades! :thumb:
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Will do,
I expect this upgrade to be much less painful than the Carnegie CST - 1's.
It's painful to push a human arm through a labyrinth.
:duh:
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Will do,
I expect this upgrade to be much less painful than the Carnegie CST - 1's.
It's painful to push a human arm through a labyrinth.
:duh:
Having done that with an XStatik to harvest the insulation, i feel your pain.. I ended up having to remove a woofer to make it possible for the top sections :lol:
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I ordered the Ultra bookshelf upgrade too! Currently completing the Ultra center channel upgrade.
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Will do,
I expect this upgrade to be much less painful than the Carnegie CST - 1's.
It's painful to push a human arm through a labyrinth.
:duh:
There was one piece of NoRez that Danny recommended that I just never was able to get in due to the labyrinth of braces.
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Amir over at ASR measured the SVS Ultra Bookshelf a while back. FR graph pretty much the same as Danny found. Amir did not like them even after EQ. Similar listening impression as Danny. Dennis Murphy measured, FR graph looks pretty much the same. Dennis modified a pair, now for sale, correcting the same issues Danny fixed. Dennis is thinking about putting his mods in the public domain. Will be interesting to see what those mods turn out to be. Would also be interesting to blind A-B test the mods by Danny and Dennis.
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Amir over at ASR measured the SVS Ultra Bookshelf a while back. FR graph pretty much the same as Danny found. Amir did not like them even after EQ. Similar listening impression as Danny. Dennis Murphy measured, FR graph looks pretty much the same. Dennis modified a pair, now for sale, correcting the same issues Danny fixed. Dennis is thinking about putting his mods in the public domain. Will be interesting to see what those mods turn out to be. Would also be interesting to blind A-B test the mods by Danny and Dennis.
Going by what Ron at NRD recorded with the RP-600M upgrade, you'll get a more balanced sound, along with better clarity & detail with the addition of tube connectors.
Then considering the likely use of aluminum wiring & equally cheap components, theres a lot to be gained, even when going a budget route with mid-grade components, but if you're going in on the upgrades, might was well dive into the highest quality parts you can afford, be it Danny's recommended parts, or your own choices based on Murphy's crossover values.
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Ron at NRD and Sean at Zero Fidelity both thought well of the Ultra bookshelves. I have a Parasound Halo A52+ (the speakers do need POWER) driving mine and couldn't be more pleased. I don't care for Amir at ASR so I discounted his opinion. I've completed the Center channel upgrade. I like the upgraded parts and full copper wire used to tie all the parts from the source to the drivers. Why not? I use Bluejeans (12 gauge) copper speaker cable from my amplifier to the speakers
I've owned these speakers for about five years. Best I could afford at the time and I still enjoy them today. I may or may not "hear" a difference after the upgrade. I don't know yet. But, emotionally, I will know they have the best electronics and wiring available. That will make me feel great! Would I buy the same speakers today? Probably not. This is what I have and upgrading them is the right move for me.
Marcus
Las Vegas, NV
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In my opinion Amir, Danny, and Dennis Murphy came up with very similar on axis Frequency Response graphs. Digging deeper into off axis I think revealed potential for improvement. In the end, set up in your listening room will have the largest impact on listening. I do agree that upgrading to quality crossover components, wire, and terminals provide confidence those items will provide the best signal purity.
Being a DIY guy and inspired by Danny, upgraded my speakers. Made a couple mistakes along the way trying tweaks to the crossover design. Listening and measurement confirmation put me back on the right track. The end result was clearer, cleaner, more dynamic, and better imaging from speakers had been happy with for quite a long time.
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Thank you for the information gentleman. I know this little upgrade will not make these sound like $300,000 speakers, but at least it will be fun 🛠️
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FYI... Danny emailed me yesterday that he is not sending out the bookshelf upgrade yet as he is waiting on delivery of tube connectors.
Marcus
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Got mine ordered!!!!
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FYI... Danny emailed me yesterday that he is not sending out the bookshelf upgrade yet as he is waiting on delivery of tube connectors.
Marcus
Thanks for the info 👍
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Woohoo!
Danny put an SVS Ultra Bookshelf on his upgrade table!
https://youtu.be/Y3SRBFZx7Yc
The SVS Ultra Bookshelves were my first decent speakers.
Then I got and upgraded the Carnegie CST-1's that he offered.
Now the SVS Ultra's are second-best.
I am excited that he may soon offer an upgrade kit for the SVS Ultra Bookshelves!
:popcorn:
I enjoyed his comments on the SVS upgrade. I am ordering the update as well.
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I think you guys are going to be pleasantly surprised with this upgrade.
And as upgrades and upgrades offered, there is a little more to it than just balancing the on axis response. The quality of the parts that come with this upgrade are what really take them to another level.
All of these kits ordered are already boxed up and awaiting more tube connectors to arrive. Hang in there with me guys. I can't get these things made fast enough. But I am having a LOT of them made. I'll have 10,000 units made before the end of the year.
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8)
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Whew! 10,000 upgrade units made by the end of the year. But, I suspect SVS has sold a lot of the Ultra bookshelf speakers. Let's hope the tube connectors come in next week as expected. I'm anxious to get the upgrade completed and playing music.
Marcus
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Any news on whether SVS Ultra Bookshelf upgrades shipping out yet?
Still waiting on tube connectors?
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According to DHL website, Danny's package of parts was delivered today. Let's have some fun with these SVS upgrades!
Marcus
Las Vegas, NV
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Tube connectors just walked through the doors. :hyper:
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Good afternoon. I'm a complete novice to upgrading and putting together a crossover. Is there a tutorial on how to do it?
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Not really, but you can wait to call Danny tomorrow, or DM myself or other users any questions you have about the process! :thumb:
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Not really, but you can wait to call Danny tomorrow, or DM myself or other users any questions you have about the process! :thumb:
I really appreciate that. Expect a DM from me shortly.
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My bookshelf upgrades are on the way! Expected on Monday. Will report results.
Marcus
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Finished the SVS ultra last night. They sound much better, especially in the vocal region. Much more detailed than before, but that’s not the whole story.
So, I got the crossover put together and soldered and decided that I wanted to do an a-b comparison between the two crossovers. so I installed both crossovers in the same speaker..bad idea. The new crossovers sounded very muffled and no width to the sound stage. Have no idea what was going on so I pulled the old crossover out and that did the trick! If anyone knows what was going on I would love to know.
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Finished the SVS ultra last night. They sound much better, especially in the vocal region. Much more detailed than before, but that’s not the whole story.
So, I got the crossover put together and soldered and decided that I wanted to do an a-b comparison between the two crossovers. so I installed both crossovers in the same speaker..bad idea. The new crossovers sounded very muffled and no width to the sound stage. Have no idea what was going on so I pulled the old crossover out and that did the trick! If anyone knows what was going on I would love to know.
If the two coils from the two crossovers were energized at the same time? Possible "transformer coupling type" interference between the two?
Anyway it's nice to hear about voice improvement 8)
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Finished the SVS ultra last night. They sound much better, especially in the vocal region. Much more detailed than before, but that’s not the whole story.
So, I got the crossover put together and soldered and decided that I wanted to do an a-b comparison between the two crossovers. so I installed both crossovers in the same speaker..bad idea. The new crossovers sounded very muffled and no width to the sound stage. Have no idea what was going on so I pulled the old crossover out and that did the trick! If anyone knows what was going on I would love to know.
When you swap between two crossovers you have to disconnect the one not in use at the drivers and at the source. Otherwise some elements are still in the circuit.
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When you swap between two crossovers you have to disconnect the one not in use at the drivers and at the source. Otherwise some elements are still in the circuit.
Hmm, thats good to know.
Is there a good, quality brass/copper based switch I could mount on the back to use to disconnect the stock crossover from the circuit for easier A/B comparisons?
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Finished the SVS ultra last night. They sound much better, especially in the vocal region. Much more detailed than before, but that’s not the whole story.
So, I got the crossover put together and soldered and decided that I wanted to do an a-b comparison between the two crossovers. so I installed both crossovers in the same speaker..bad idea. The new crossovers sounded very muffled and no width to the sound stage. Have no idea what was going on so I pulled the old crossover out and that did the trick! If anyone knows what was going on I would love to know.
Do you have a photo of the crossover after it was together?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222420)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222420)
SVS Ultra cossover.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222420)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=222420)
SVS Ultra cossover.
Nice work! Thanks for sharing the photo's 8)
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I've just completed the SVS Ultra center and bookshelf upgrades. Based on just a couple hours of listening, I can agree that the vocals are greatly improved. I listen mostly to SACD multichannel classical and jazz. Surprisingly, and quite inexplicable, I had to lower my two SB13 Ultra subwoofers 2db. Could just be a coincidence. Audyssey is OFF until I have a chance to run it tomorrow morning (while everyone is asleep). I use the app and limit frequency adjustment to 300 Hz. Once Audyssey is complete, I let the new crossovers "burn in" for several days, and run REW, I'll have a better listening experience and can report back my thoughts.
Thanks...Marcus
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I've just completed the SVS Ultra center and bookshelf upgrades. Based on just a couple hours of listening, I can agree that the vocals are greatly improved. I listen mostly to SACD multichannel classical and jazz. Surprisingly, and quite inexplicable, I had to lower my two SB13 Ultra subwoofers 2db. Could just be a coincidence. Audyssey is OFF until I have a chance to run it tomorrow morning (while everyone is asleep). I use the app and limit frequency adjustment to 300 Hz. Once Audyssey is complete, I let the new crossovers "burn in" for several days, and run REW, I'll have a better listening experience and can report back my thoughts.
Thanks...Marcus
Cool! 8)
sadly, my upgrade is still in the box it shipped in. Been too busy to play with the upgrade, but I like what I'm reading :D
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Audyssey completed. Typical results. Using the app, correction is limited to 300Hz. Now that the distance and time alignment is complete, the speakers sound great. If I didn't mention it, I installed NoRez. I also replaced all the polyfill with insulation (Danny's preference). I made sure not to block the ports. Tinning and attaching the cables to the speakers was not easy (also, occasionally, the speaker magnets would attract my soldering iron - funny experience).
Mini rant: I find it curious that audiophiles obsess over speaker cables (I use Bluejeans 12 gauge copper cables) only to discover speaker makers, like SVS, use aluminum cables inside the box. Who knew? I didn't, until learning about Danny's upgrades.
Yesterday, Ron at New Record Day co-hosted a video with Randy from Cheap Audio Man. Randy was complaining about his difficulty with building one of Danny's crossover upgrades. I could really sympathize. It's not that difficult but tedious and time consuming. Danny's videos are great but he makes it look way easier that it really is for a novice. Plus, my 70 year old hands would cramp up from time to time. I'm happy all three speakers are done. Yes. It was worth the effort.
Marcus
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Audyssey completed. ... Now that the distance and time alignment is complete, the speakers sound great. If I didn't mention it, I installed NoRez. I also replaced all the polyfill with insulation (Danny's preference). I made sure not to block the ports. Tinning and attaching the cables to the speakers was not easy (also, occasionally, the speaker magnets would attract my soldering iron - funny experience).
Mini rant: I find it curious that audiophiles obsess over speaker cables (I use Bluejeans 12 gauge copper cables) only to discover speaker makers, like SVS, use aluminum cables inside the box. Who knew? I didn't, until learning about Danny's upgrades.
Yesterday, Ron at New Record Day co-hosted a video with Randy from Cheap Audio Man. Randy was complaining about his difficulty with building one of Danny's crossover upgrades. I could really sympathize. It's not that difficult but tedious and time consuming. Danny's videos are great but he makes it look way easier that it really is for a novice. Plus, my 70 year old hands would cramp up from time to time. I'm happy all three speakers are done. Yes. It was worth the effort.
Marcus
Good to hear that you got it done with good results 8)
I was planning to do mine with NoRez only, and all polyfill removed. You used NoRez and additional insulation?
BlueJeansCable: I liked the upgrade from zipcord to BlueJeansCable-12AWG on mine. In a phone conversation with Danny, he referred to BlueJeansCable as budget cable. I'll pursue his recommended cable in the future.
I am fairly experienced with soldering and electronics, but yes it does eat time.
I have a few projects with higher priority, so my SVS upgrade will have to wait a while longer.
Congratulations on getting it done! 8)
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I have several more days of listening completed. Results continue to be excellent. I listen mostly to classical music, multichannel SACD. I've noted a great improvement in vocals across the left, center and right speakers (all three with Danny's upgrade). For instance, I've listened to Chandos' (CHSA 5242) 2019 recording of Bliss: Mary of Magdala. Also, LSO Live's (LSO0809) 2017 recording of Berlioz: La Damnation de Faust. Each of these recordings have soloists and choirs. All sound better than ever, not shrill or screechy. The orchestra is clear and distinct. Look, these are $500 each speakers. I cannot claim they match Danny's NX-Oticas but my speakers are upgraded and I'm pleased.
Marcus
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I have several more days of listening completed. Results continue to be excellent. I listen mostly to classical music, multichannel SACD. I've noted a great improvement in vocals across the left, center and right speakers (all three with Danny's upgrade). For instance, I've listened to Chandos' (CHSA 5242) 2019 recording of Bliss: Mary of Magdala. Also, LSO Live's (LSO0809) 2017 recording of Berlioz: La Damnation de Faust. Each of these recordings have soloists and choirs. All sound better than ever, not shrill or screechy. The orchestra is clear and distinct. Look, these are $500 each speakers. I cannot claim they match Danny's NX-Oticas but my speakers are upgraded and I'm pleased.
Marcus
Thank you for this report. Congratulations 8)
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I have several more days of listening completed. Results continue to be excellent. I listen mostly to classical music, multichannel SACD. I've noted a great improvement in vocals across the left, center and right speakers (all three with Danny's upgrade). For instance, I've listened to Chandos' (CHSA 5242) 2019 recording of Bliss: Mary of Magdala. Also, LSO Live's (LSO0809) 2017 recording of Berlioz: La Damnation de Faust. Each of these recordings have soloists and choirs. All sound better than ever, not shrill or screechy. The orchestra is clear and distinct. Look, these are $500 each speakers. I cannot claim they match Danny's NX-Oticas but my speakers are upgraded and I'm pleased.
Marcus
That's what counts. Enjoy
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Hello,
I am interested in this upgrade, but what about the hump at 5khz after the mod on the GR Research website? Is this audible and or annoying?
Can it be reduced?
I also find the SVS Ultra in stock form to be somewhat forward or harsh sounding.
Does this mod reduce this?
Also does the rise in the treble, after the mod, cause any brightness issues.
Are most of you who did the mod still happy with the results overall, or is it really not worthwhile?
Thanks for your answers!
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It's an edge-diffraction issue.
The bump is still visible in the original speaker in the crossover measurement, but it is brought down by the slope of the tweeter: (see the green line at 5Khz)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248972&size=large)
Upgrade On Axis:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248975)
Upgrade at 10-degrees off axis: (5KHz hump is gone)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=248974)
Most "Brightness" issues occur in the 1-3KHz range, most everything above that is harmonics and spatial cues and unlikely to be an issue unless there is a severe spike or breakup mode.
You can tackle the 5Khz issue by placing some 1/4" thick felt around the sides of the tweeter to absorb the reflection issue off the baffle, or keep the speakers pointed out past your shoulders.
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Thanks for your detailed reply 👍
I really like the build quality and looks of the speakers, but I don't care alot for the forwardness and hardness at times, plus voices can sound somewhat muffled or veiled.
So should I upgrade or would I be better off getting different speakers?
Thanks again!
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Thanks for your detailed reply 👍
I really like the build quality and looks of the speakers, but I don't care alot for the forwardness and hardness at times, plus voices can sound somewhat muffled or veiled.
So should I upgrade or would I be better off getting different speakers?
Thanks again!
The upgrade will resolve all of those issues.
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Ordered the SVS Ultra Bookshelf upgrade kit from GR-Research over the weekend.
Looking forward to getting it!
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I did the upgrade on my Ultras and thought they did a really good job removing that harshness. No regrets at all!
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Thats good to hear!
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Thank you for the information gentleman. I know this little upgrade will not make these sound like $300,000 speakers, but at least it will be fun 🛠️
I have heard $300K speakers that I thought sounded like crap, and $3-10K speakers that I thought sounded musical, so maybe that's not a bad thing...
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A friend of mine wants to rebuild his SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers crossovers, and use top grade parts such as aftermarket resistors, inductors and capacitors, but keep the stock values the same.
We know that the stock capacitors are 8.2 uf for the tweeter section, and 12 uf for the bass/midrange driver section, but no idea what values the resistor and the two inductors are.
He said SVS won't disclose the values. The crossover appears to be a 12db/octave slope on both the tweeter and woofer/mid at 2,000 hz.
Would anyone happen to know what the values of the inductors and the resistor are by any chance?
Thanks.
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A friend of mine wants to rebuild his SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers crossovers, and use top grade parts such as aftermarket resistors, inductors and capacitors, but keep the stock values the same.
We know that the stock capacitors are 8.2 uf for the tweeter section, and 12 uf for the bass/midrange driver section, but no idea what values the resistor and the two inductors are.
He said SVS won't disclose the values. The crossover appears to be a 12db/octave slope on both the tweeter and woofer/mid at 2,000 hz.
Would anyone happen to know what the values of the inductors and the resistor are by any chance?
Thanks.
Rebuilding them using stock values doesn't make a lot of sense. The humped up area centered at 800 to 900Hz will still be there, and the tweeter level is still going to be down.
You could spend just as much piece milling it all out value for value.
The upgrade kit solves all of those problems and you get everything you need using top notch parts.
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I really don't understand why he is so set on upgrading the parts in the stock speaker either. I have told him he needs to go with the upgrade kit, but he insists on the stock parts values. Lol.