Mark Schifter's Cabinets with VMPS?

TheeeChosenOne · « **on:** 3 Jun 2003, 09:53 pm »

I think mating VMPS technology & design to some amazing looking cabinets that Mark Schifter offers would be a smashing success! Especially now that Mark has a new factory in China to carry this out.

Given the gorgeous cabinets that are coming out of Asia (and thusly readily evident in new British speakers models), I think Brian's cabinets need to be at a HIGHER level--especially considering the current competitive market conditions. Look at such British mags like "What Hi-Fi" (available at Borders, etc) to see the new cabinets Euro designers are pulling out of their hats.

VMPS technology should be mated with cabinets that truly symbolize the great sound and great company VMPS represents.

WAF is extremely important when the men in the house decide on the speakers (as is generally the case).

To that end, part of the reason why Mark Schifter is so screamingly successful is because he understands this fact in spades---offering quality gorgeous cabinetry, sound, and VALUE...........Geez! I wish such cabinetry options were available to me when I bought my beloved VMPS. I would have paid a premium for such gorgeous work. After all, VMPS speakers are life-long audio pieces.....what's a couple of extra bucks when you must stare at them EVERY DAY!!

I'm sure I'm not alone in this, when I say that a REVOLUTION is in order to get VMPS cabinets up to the level that matches their exceptional sound.........

To see some of Mark's work, visit: http://www.av123.com/products_category.php?section=speakers

I can only wish and dream the UNIVERSE of different colors and cabinet designs that await VMPS!...................

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Jun 2003, 11:09 pm »

I'll tell you what I'd like to do:

1. Have Mark not only build cabinets but most of our drivers.

2. Sell VMPS on the AV123 site as an adjunct to his current lineup while maintaining current dealers.

3. Set up a chain of properly supervised in-home demos around the country for the VMPS/AV123 lineup. Anyone whose been to John Casler's house knows of which I speak--terrific sound, expert advice and installation, low prices. Who better to service the shrinking High End market than audiophiles?

Look at the facts:
1. There are hardly any High End dealers left outside of a few hotspots like NY and LA.
2. The remaining High End retailers cannot stock or demo all the high quality products available. They are biased towards expensive marques due to the margins they must maintain or go out of business.
3. New lines trying to sell to said few remaining dealers quickly discover they are often slow-pay/no-pay due to the economic squeeze in which they find themselves. If like us said manufacturer demands payment with order he gets no order. Audiophiles are left with on-line and mailorder, which is fine as far as it goes but does not allow hearing before purchase and does not have any installation or customer service attached to it beyond what can be done over the phone.

IMHO AV123 needs better designers for their products, particularly the low-end items. Often some DIY'er says his work is better than any commercial piece at $XXX. So, why not a contest, with the best designs going into production at AV123, regardless of whether the designer is professional or amateur? This could be done not just for speakers, but electronics, processors, wire and cable, etc. Prices would drop, the market would expand, smalltime manufacturers in the program would earn enough royalties to buy groceries and pay bills....

Manufacturing in China has reached a point where the rest of the world will soon be playing catchup, not the other way round. The High End could benefit immensely with a guy like Mark at the helm of a big customer-service oriented vertically integrated, technologically advanced, well-funded company, with people like yours truly (blush!) pushing the technology edge. No need to suck up to the print mags, either--get reviews online, with people of integrity like Soundstage, ETM, and Positive Feedback. The Class A rated $10,000pr mini-monitor can join the dinosaurs, never to rip off the unwary again.

Lots of pie in the sky, huh? Your ideas??

Don't worry Mark, you can still sign all the checks. My needs are modest.

Big B

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 12:48 am »

Obviously, since most people couldn't point to my home state on a map without help,

I can definately appreciate the problem with lack of demo spots and local dealers; I've dealt with it my whole audio-loving life. My speakers, subs, amps, CD players and a few other items were all purchased by mail or online.

And while some folks chant "buy American", it's tough to pony more cash for an inferior American made product just to keep the flag flying. (Note: there are some great American companies, not trying to put any of you guys down- just the economic facts are hard to get around).

I've got Le Amps on order from Thailand, and I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the Thai IRD Sabai preamp. And I've been intrigued by Rocket speakers, in no small part due to the drop-dead gorgeous good looks (and lots of positive word of mouth). Certainly I'd be pretty jacked if I could get a high end ribbon VMPS speaker with the stunning Rosewood cabs that Mark cranks out in the Chinese factory he's got.

A collaboration is sounding better and better all the time.

TheeeChosenOne · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 12:52 am »

That's good brain storming Brian!

Your market analysis is spot on. Taking such steps in the future is definitely the sensible and commercial way to take this business into the future.

Mad DOg · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 01:26 am »

i'll raise my glass to this idea!

Mark delivers some of the finest cabinet work I've seen...

If this comes to fruitition, I just may end up owning a pair of VMPS technology speakers...At least I'll have a better chance of getting my better half to approve of the purchase!

MaxCast · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 01:38 am »

Wow, that was quick BigB. I'd love to see the results of a joint effort between vmps and av123. A slim tower would be my first recommendation. Inbetween the 626 and the rm40.

wshuff · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 01:52 am »

Do it! Oh yes, yes, yes. Do it!

What a collaboration that would be. What do you say, MLS?

JoshK · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:06 am »

Well Big B,

As a macro investment analyst (a thereby have opinions about the way of the worlds biz) for a living, I have to commend you for being exactly on target. The US no longer is a manufacturer, that day ended in the 60's really. We are a service oriented economy (tech side like you said), countries like China as the key for manufacturing. And I am 100% OK with giving people in China jobs too.

I really like what you said about prospects for AV123, I really think you got something there, not just pie in the sky. Forget naysayers, go for it and laugh when it works out to there surprise.

By the way, I didn't suggest your cabinets are lacking, but why not let someone who has an expertise and high quality control do that end of things. Less loss for you!

Cheers,
Josh

Mad DOg · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:30 am »

Quote from: JoshK

...By the way, I didn't suggest your cabinets are lacking...

they aren't lacking per se...but placed next to an AV123 cabinet, they do look downright...primitive...

sorry Big B...i call it like i see it...but i do call things the way i hear them, too and your speakers do sound fabulous IMHHO(in my humble hobbyist opinion)...

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:30 am »

With the High End retailer losing importance he must be replaced with a good inhome demo readily available in most larger cities.

Many audiophiles are happy to demo their equipment for potential buyers for free. In my scheme they would be paid, say the 30 points (cost x 1.3) that is the minimum for maintaining a storefront. Prices will be low as possible and set by the factory--no more the inflated list price, followed by the phony discount, stock in trade of some of the most exploitative companies in the high end. No more snotty High End outlets refusing to demo or stock popular products. In my fantasy each inhome retailer would be obligated to demo, loan, or perform customer-home demo of anything he sells or he wouldn't be allowed to sell it.

Audiophiles could have a real say in getting what they want to buy, all executed at the highest quality level (no $14 tweeters in $75,000pr speakers, as I have personally witnessed) and sold at the lowest price. Imagine say, a Mark Levinson equivalent amp (150 lb monoblock with gobs of power) produced in China, designed by, say, John Curl or James Bongiorno, and sold for $5500pr, not $22,000. Or a full feature remote preamp with phono which would sell for $8000, but available through the inhome demo network under $3000. And so on.

There are no domestic manufacturing jobs in the High End any more. Most manufacturers source parts, modules, heatsinks etc. offshore anyway or assemble in Mexico, Thailand or China. Picky people like myself could have most of the work done in China, shipped here as a "semi-kit", with final assembly, testing, tweeking, added magic done here, with the product drop shipped to the customer from a domestic warehouse. Warranty would be no hassle, no questions asked (recent bad example/horror story:when my customer's "high end" amp from Norway self-destructed, the megalomaniac manufacturer refused warranty; the hapless audiophile was stuck with a $400 repair plus roundtrip shipping!). Al products would be upgradable and updatable--no instant obsolescence.

Let's see, anything else that bugs you?

Mad DOg · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 03:09 am »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

All products would be upgradable and updatable--no instant obsolescence...

Now you're talking!!! I like this!

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 04:04 am »

This has to be a business, and the business needs a model. While the work is part time it is not volunteer. This way the factory can keep track off how products are presented and offer training and other help in setting up a sound room that puts the products at good advantage.

One of the most frequent complaints I hear is: "The dealer's demo was bad, the gear sounded awful inspite of its great reviews, why is this?"

I don't want to hear that ever again from visitors to an inhome network retailer.

bubba966 · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 04:14 am »

Very true that a bad demo is (much) worse than no demo.

That's where I think lies the hard part of the plan. Making sure that the setup is correct and adequate to display the product.

Sedona Sky Sound · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 05:59 am »

Even though I am somewhat a poster child for this model, I still would have some small doubts.

Selling audio equipment is currently my sole occupation. As such, I have spent the last 6 months of my life
a) making my demo room sound as good as it possibly can [100s of hours dedicated to this task alone]
b) advertising/networking/building credibility locally and on the Interent
c) increasing my own knowledge about acoustics, design theory, and Home Theater integration issues so that I can better serve my customers
d) performing critical AB testing with many different components (cables, amps, pre-amps, etc.) to create the best synergies possible
e) creating highly detailed CD-ROM design, installation, and tweaking procedures with lots of pictures to assist those customers that I can't personally visit and assist with those activities

For the most part, these are all activities that I could not do (or at least not do well) if I was not dedicated full time to this. I absolutely, 110% agree that it is a good idea to listen to the speakers before you buy, but I would be a little uncomfortable with the possible non-optimized demo experience as well as knowledge and "service after the sale" from part-time dealers. Just my 2 cents. BigBs the boss and I will keep doing whatever I can to keep him happy

.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 08:11 am »

Your franchise is secure, Julian. You have all the talent and ability anyone could want in a dealer and I have no desire to change what you're doing.

The problem is that, deny it as we may, the specialty audio industry is collapsing all around us. Remember that virtually all the gear you read about in the print and online mags are produced by vanity operations which make no profit (or very little) and depend on Other People's Money (OPM) to exist, which they go through in time and then venture forth to find more. When the backers lose patience such outfits shut down, orphaning all their equipment in the field (no parts, no warranty). This has happened so frequently in recent months that no specific examples are necessary; every audiophile can think of some.

We can continue to behave like alligators stranded in a shrinking pond, squabbling among ourselves and badmouthing each other's products till the end comes, or take action in a positive fashion. My suggestions in this thread are designed to do just that and might even work.

Q · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 11:23 am »

Best Be Careful!

With a business strategy such as this, an American Icon in Audio could tumble...and Dr Bose would not be too happy!

(someone should do something similar with that overrated and overpriced/underengineered Milwaukee Motorcycle too!)

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 01:55 pm »

All right, who are the 2 guys voting against this idea?

It would be a dream (for me at least) to have VMPS sound quality coming from a gorgeous cabinet. World-class sound in world-class enclosures! Why not???!!!

Then I could have VMPS speakers in other rooms instead of just my own hideout.

rosconey · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:01 pm »

um brian why dont you spend less time here and more time kissing av123.coms butt-lol-we want his cabinets with your ear dammit.just dont make the price equil to the looks

man o man a vmps large sub in a cabinet finished like onix-drip drip drip (sound of drool on the key board)

wshuff · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 02:28 pm »

Brian Cheney wrote:

"Often some DIY'er says his work is better than any commercial piece at $XXX. So, why not a contest, with the best designs going into production at AV123, regardless of whether the designer is professional or amateur? This could be done not just for speakers, but electronics, processors, wire and cable, etc. Prices would drop, the market would expand, smalltime manufacturers in the program would earn enough royalties to buy groceries and pay bills.... "

So are you suggesting something akin to Designer Survivor? Or maybe, Designer Idol? So, who are you going to be? Simon or the other guy? And does that make MLS Paula Addul?

Hey, I watched those other shows some, so I'd certainly watch this one. Go for it! The summer schedule sucks.

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Jun 2003, 03:28 pm »

I plan to be kicked off the island with the 15 bachelorettes. My wife called and said it was OK.

Poll

Would You Like To See New Gorgeous Cabintery for VMPS Along the Likes That Mark Schifter or Others Can Offer?

Mark Schifter's Cabinets with VMPS?