[BPoletti]

I have also been led to believe that transformers can be really wonderful radio antennas.  Great for tuners, maybe not for phono amplification.

[galyons]

That link was there to illustrate a transformer and how it works. I didn't postulate anything based on powerline transmission. ...

Really?  What was this all about?

"Somehow, you plug in your cart, and out it comes with enough voltage to drive your MM stage. How does this magic work? http://www.powertransformer.us/stepuptransformers.htm"

Cheers,
Geary

[neobop]

With a quick google it was the only illustration I found of the inside of a step up transformer.  A small voltage SUT works the same way, primary and secondary.  With the tiny voltage coming out of a phono cart, magnetic distortions are real.  My comments weren't based on high voltage applications. They were based on my experience and opinions of some EEs. Whether or not another gain stage is preferable is a matter of opinion. I think it depends on the specifics.

I have also been led to believe that transformers can be really wonderful radio antennas.  Great for tuners, maybe not for phono amplification.

Yea, and sometimes they hum like crazy and you have to move them around.

[BobRex]

So, now you're suggesting that the colorations of the SUT compensates for losses in the phono stage? 

I'm sure it sounds great, but I suspect a Herron hi gain stage would be better, and more faithful to the recording.  Given Vortex situation, do you really think he would be better off with an all purpose SUT?

No, I didn't say that.  What if the SUT is passing the signal without coloration?  Don't assume that the SUT is coloring.  I don't know how faithful the jfet stage is, all I can tell you is I'm hearing more differences between recordings, so as far as I'm concerned, that makes the SUT more faithful.

Regarding the Herron's high gain stage, I had been using that exact stage since 2001.  I  know how it sounds.  In fact, I pulled it out to use the SUT.   To assume that the high gain stage is not coloring the signal (or pehaps not as much as what you beleive the SUT to be doing) is naive, but I'm not going to turn this into a SS vs. tube  vs. SUT battle.

[DaveyW]

I'd heartily second Neo's recommendation to read Sebs superb guide on SUT's on VE
http://www.vinylengine.com/step-ups-and-mc-cartridges.shtml

I had to read it through 3 or 4 times to understand, but it wasn't until I played with a few SUT's (with a 0C9ML II), tuning them by varying the input stage R loading that it all clicked.

Well worth a read and helps explain why they are so cart dependant.

For the record - I eventually ended up sticking with a MC phono stage

Cheers
Dave

[BPoletti]

No, I didn't say that.  What if the SUT is passing the signal without coloration?  Don't assume that the SUT is coloring.  I don't know how faithful the jfet stage is, all I can tell you is I'm hearing more differences between recordings, so as far as I'm concerned, that makes the SUT more faithful.

Regarding the Herron's high gain stage, I had been using that exact stage since 2001.  I  know how it sounds.  In fact, I pulled it out to use the SUT.   To assume that the high gain stage is not coloring the signal (or pehaps not as much as what you beleive the SUT to be doing) is naive, but I'm not going to turn this into a SS vs. tube  vs. SUT battle.

If the SUT is an enhancement to the system and you like it, that's all that matters.  I've been using a VTPH-1mc since the late 90s and am very happy with it.  Is it perfect?  Is anything perfect?  I like it, that's all that counts for me.    

[neobop]

OK BobRex, what about Vortex? 

I no longer mess with SUTs, but I've read about people changing the MM input impedance to all kinds of values (like 300K) to facilitate a match.  Vortex wants to check out some relatively inexpensive MCs.  Do you think a SUT is his best bet?  BTW, Bobs devices 3440AH is $850.

[marknoir]

Over the 35 ys or so of me being in this hobby, I literally have tried hundreds different combinations of MC SUTs, active step-ups (pre-preamps) and stricktly MC phono stages. I have decided that (at least for myself) a good SUT and a tube MM phono stage is the right combo. Now, to find a good SUT is not easy. I stopped for now at S&B TX-103 copper (Bent version), feeding the tube phono of the MFA Luminescence preamp. I also had excellent results with same SUT and Hagerman Trumpet. I also was very impressed with Pass XONO, which a straight thru MC stage. The cheaper and obvious way for you would be to get a decent SUT and keep your phono stage for now, until you decide what to do next. I second K&K or Bob's Devices. Active step-ups in the same price range, including Hagerman's Piccolo are not as good IMHO, I've tried them all.

[neobop]

Anecdotal evidence is meaningless IMO, unless accompanied by specific cartridge combinations.
Virtually everyone agrees that electrical parameters of both cart and SUT should be considered.

I think if you call Bob of Bob's Devices, he'll ask what MC.

[marknoir]

The OC9 and 103R are two MC carts I was thinking of testing with.  I guess since Choir offers a 30 day trial I can at least see how one of those two carts compare to the Zephyr.  People are saying the 103R sounds like a totally different animal when used with a SUT, which has me curious.

These are two totally different animals, and I think Bob makes two different transformers for them. And not only him. 103 is a special cartridge. OC9 will work into generic transformer. I've used OC9, AT33PTG, Madrigal Carnegie I, Shelter 901 and even Koetsu into the same TX103 transformer with minor loading adjustments...

[Syrah]

Bob's your man.  I have my Bob's SUT with a cheapo modified Jolida JD9 and they are absolutely great together - so put me down as another vote for the MC-SUT-Tube combo.