[happyrabbit]

This is my 2nd attempt at owning a tube amp.    The 1st attempt finished poorly...   I have attached a couple pics.    I removed the supplied 80 rectifier and replaced it with an EML 5Z3. 
6GH8A (Sylvania) drive the 45's (Philco).  .   I believe the coupling caps are USSR Oil type.   I was concerned about the white color but I find it pleasant..  The 'BUG' is a bit different.  I kinda like him. 

Dwight








   

[SteveFord]

That is one nice looking amplifier.
What are your impressions so far?

[happyrabbit]

Internal Pic. 

Steve - I am going to give it a week before posting any comments.  After 5 days in a fedex truck, my new baby needs some lovin   

Dwight

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Well, congratulation on your new amp. But I'm surprised on your choice of going from SET to P-P amp with 45 tubes.... a big difference there.

    Anyway, keep us posted how the amp sound.

Take care,
Buddy 

   

[Bemopti123]

That is a sexy looking amp.  hahaha.  Gotta love the Bug...that huge tube off center.  It must sound amazing. 

What speakers are you using?  How many watts does it put out? 

[happyrabbit]

Set Man....  I think you are right.   I liked the 45 PP Concept. The 45PP has a wide, dynamic, resolving, and non-fatiguing sound stage.   Yet... I missed the 3d holographic effect a bit more than I thought I would. I didn't understand what they meant by 'overhang' until listening to a PP design.    I hate to say it.... I am hooked on the SET Sound.        Mr Vincent was  kind enough to refund the amp...  very professional.... Two thumbs you for him !

I just won this amp on Audiogon for $1100 + shipping.  Burgesss 2A3 Mono blocks.   Do you approve ?  Are we still family ?    I will start a new thread upon arrival

Dwight

[SET Man]

Set Man....  I think you are right.   I liked the 45 PP Concept. The 45PP has a wide, dynamic, resolving, and non-fatiguing sound stage.   Yet... I missed the 3d holographic effect a bit more than I thought I would. I didn't understand what they meant by 'overhang' until listening to a PP design.    I hate to say it.... I am hooked on the SET Sound.        Mr Vincent was  kind enough to refund the amp...  very professional.... Two thumbs you for him !

I just won this amp on Audiogon for $1100 + shipping.  Burgesss 2A3 Mono blocks.   Do you approve ?  Are we still family ?    I will start a new thread upon arrival

Dwight

Hey!

   Well, the problem with P-P design is that once you split up the signal phase, you will never can put it back together perfectly as the original again. And as it name implies one push and one pull, the 2 tubes, and etc on each channels have to work in a perfect sync to keep the signal integrity... but of course is an impossible task. And that cause xover distortion, image smear and etc. I think some people are more sensitive to this than others. I'm not saying P-P are bad... I've heard P-P tube and SS amps that sound great, but only a hand full I would say.

   And that's the beauty of SET, the signal never split up and it is always on, no class sliding and etc. The down side? Lower power and wasted energy... I think tube SET amps are only about 20% efficient at most.

   Anyway, congratulation again another of your new amp. But I'm worry that 2A3 won't be powerful enough for your speaker, but I can be wrong. I've heard an 45 SET amp once in my system. The mid was beautiful but even with my 94dB speaker I didn't feel it was enough power for me.

   BTW... if you ever look for a bit more power in the future. Do check out Audio Note Kit. If I didn't have my amps and were in a market for 300B SET I would seriously consider their Interstage 300B monoblock.

   Anyway, keep us posted. Enjoy.

Take care,
Buddy

[Steve]

A few comments I would like to address. First, designing even one stage is very difficult if
perfection is to be achieved. Companies have tried for decades without success. So I think
it is important to understand some basics, with any design.

1) The overhang, whatever that is although I perceive you to mean too much bass,
is due to design. Since SETs tend to have less bass due to DC influencing the primary inductance,
this might be deemed as a plus. However, the bass in PP can easily be reduced.

2) "Splitting the signal" is not disassembling the signal, IF that is what is meant. But the
quality of the signal is dependent upon at least three factors.
     
     a) the type of phase splitter. Some are notoriously poor. Others are extremely excellent, near perfect. 

     b) The design of the power supply is very critical in the design of any stage, which includes
the phase splitter stage.

     c) The parts quality and quantity employed in the design if very critical. 

Very very few design a good phase splitter or supply, but when one does, watch out, it is near perfect.

As far as SETs, there are major inherent problems. The greatest being the variable output impedance
(Z), thus variable damping of the speaker.

As the signal increases, varies, the output Z changes. If one checks the plate resistance of the tube
(usually a triode), one will find that as the output tube plate current rises above the quiescent point during
the "musical cycle", the plate resistance, thus output Z of the amp remains pretty much constant.

However, as the output tubes plate current is reduced from the quiescent point, the plate resistance
increases dramatically, eventually arriving at infinite plate resistance at cut off.

Hence, the damping factor varies less at quiet passages and varies hugely at higher levels, even
towards no damping at all at loud levels, on 1/2 half of the signal/ woofer movement. And of course
there is the harmonic distortion problem which can give the music an artificially richer sound.

Thus, if the phase spllitter and power supply is designed well, the PP 45 can be at least as good,
if not better sound than SETs. However, most PPs are designed poorly.

Happyrabbit, it sounds like you are unhappy with the overall design of your PP amp, relatively speaking.

Cheers.
 

[Quiet Earth]

Hogwash. SET sounds better because it is better. Period.

Make all the excuses you want for push pull not quite getting there, and use all the math, white papers and marketing slogans that you want. PP will never be able to do what SET does best.... make music.

[happyrabbit]

Thanks for the insight Steve !   I felt the 45PP was sub par to my Magnus MA-200  (Canary Audio SS Class A). I realize I am comparing apples to peaches  The VW 45PP @ $1500 is an excellent amp.       IF my Sophia 300b amp wasn;t such a POS, this thread would not even exist....   

[Steve]

Hogwash. SET sounds better because it is better. Period.

Make all the excuses you want for push pull not quite getting there, and use all the math, white papers and marketing slogans that you want. PP will never be able to do what SET does best.... make music.

 

I was hoping you would, or could present some evidence, listening included, to support your opinion.
But I cannot think of a single category where SETs come out on top, including listening.
I have auditioned dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers, and it is true some love a particular
artificially flavoring, or another. (Flavor, Distortion is any variance from accuracy,
not just HD and IMD.)

It is true PP is much more difficult to design. 

Cheers.

[Steve]

Thanks for the insight Steve !   I felt the 45PP was sub par to my Magnus MA-200  (Canary Audio SS Class A). I realize I am comparing apples to peaches  The VW 45PP @ $1500 is an excellent amp.       IF my Sophia 300b amp wasn;t such a POS, this thread would not even exist....

The Sophia is one of the better SETs I have heard at the 2005 or there abouts show.

Cheers Happyrabbit and enjoy.

[Quiet Earth]

 

I cannot think of a single category where SETs come out on top, including listening.

Hey Steve,
That's Ok man! You and and I are about as far apart as we can possibly get on SET vs. PP. We can happily agree to disagree and save a few megabytes worth of Internet space. 

I have no problem with everyone having their own preference and expectations when it come to audio. Thats the way it should be. And that's really all it boils down to. You stand by your opinion/experience, and will I stand by mine. SET Is all I care to listen to anymore. It's what I know to be right for me. Just what the doctor ordered. 

If you guys love push pull, then more power to ya'.
Peace out everybody!

Q.E.

[ken]

 I've listened to a very expensive SET and FWIW my Eico HF-20 rebuilds from Jim Nicholls give up very little if anything at all regarding all the virtues SET amps are known for

[jackman]

Hogwash. SET sounds better because it is better. Period.

Make all the excuses you want for push pull not quite getting there, and use all the math, white papers and marketing slogans that you want. PP will never be able to do what SET does best.... make music.

This is an opinion.   We all have different opinions regarding which designs sound better, but you don't have to be a total dick to someone who is offering a technical explanationon different amp designs.  What is your problem?

[neekomax]

This is an opinion.   We all have different opinions regarding which designs sound better, but you don't have to be a total dick to someone who is offering a technical explanationon different amp designs.  What is your problem?

Not the first time I've seen that sort of post from Quiet Earth. Hey, at least the guy knows his own mind.

I, personally, would not simply stand pat on such things. No room to learn in the chamber of assuredness.

[Quiet Earth]

This is an opinion.   We all have different opinions regarding which designs sound better, but you don't have to be a total dick to someone who is offering a technical explanationon different amp designs.  What is your problem?

Yes it is my opinion. I thought I expressed it quite well, don't you?

I don't like your dog either.

[Ericus Rex]

Yes it is my opinion. I thought I expressed it quite well, don't you?

I don't like your dog either.

Oh my!  Someone's got pepper in their panties!   

[happyrabbit]

I hate to interrupt the love-fest  but this is the 2A3 amp I settled on. Shipping on Monday.    Quite Earth  - I like furballs    Be Kind

Dwight

[jackman]

Yes it is my opinion. I thought I expressed it quite well, don't you?

I don't like your dog either.

It's sad because a knowledgeable guy was providing a technical overview regarding single ended amp designs, only to be accosted by a mouth-breathing little punk like you, talking through your ass. 

Also, I would imagine a little sissy like you to be a cat person anyway. 

Cheers

Jack