[Angaria]

Any advice on the 12ax7 vs 6922 in the sig 16?  Have you observed consistent differences between the tube families?  Thanks.

[BrentG]

Hi all,

Someone asked this before, but there any alternative to Upscale Audio for the Miniwatt Dario?  $230 is just too rich for my blood.

Thanks!

Yes. I bought mine from Brent Jessee Recording & Supply - http://www.audiotubes.com/
You can contact Mr. Jessee at: brentjes@audiotubes.com

The price was $150, or about 1/3 less than Upscale Audio. Plus shipping/insurance of course.

To find this tube:
Go to the 6DJ8 page: http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
Search for "1960s Mazda France"

-Brent

[Rudyg66]

Hi all
i own since two month the Red Wine Audio Signature 70.2 LFP V mono amplifiers and i'm extremely satisfied!
After listening one month with the standard tubes i decided to start some tube rolling... first i tried was the electro harmonix 6922.
But after burning in it was not a real success.
Then i ordered the Genalex Gold Lions with the super cryo treatment.
And they hit my heart!
Very lively, neutral but not cold, very good dynamic and height's as clear as a crystal!
Sound stage is very realistic and three dimensional.
Voices and violins are like they are in the room itself.
Cymbals sounds like cymbals, drums like drums.
On Double basses it seems that you can count the strings... really great bass performance.
Records taken in a church.....you really find yourself in a church.
Listening to Eva Cassidy let you almost forget that she died 17 years ago.
All in all i would say for the reasonable price this tubes will be a good choice.
Greetings from Switzerland
Rudi

[flatmap]

Then i ordered the Genalex Gold Lions with the super cryo treatment.
And they hit my heart!
Very lively, neutral but not cold, very good dynamic and height's as clear as a crystal!
Sound stage is very realistic and three dimensional.
Voices and violins are like they are in the room itself.
Cymbals sounds like cymbals, drums like drums.
On Double basses it seems that you can count the strings... really great bass performance.
Records taken in a church.....you really find yourself in a church.
Listening to Eva Cassidy let you almost forget that she died 17 years ago.
All in all i would say for the reasonable price this tubes will be a good choice.
Greetings from Switzerland
Rudi

Wow, even with cryo treatment these are so much more economical compared to NOS options. 

Also it's always nice when a tube you like is widely available.  Will probably
check this one out.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi flatmap,

Go for it - and sometimes the more expensive tubes don't necessarily sound better than lower cost alternatives.  It really depends on how
you want to fine tune the sound. 

Typically, you can go more open, detailed and extended sounding compared to the stock tube.  More dynamic and lively

OR- warmer, richer, and sweeter with "fatter" tone compared to the stock tube.

It gets a little tricky to find tubes that can do all of this, though. 


Hi Rudi,

Welcome to the RWA forum and Audiocircle and viva la Signature 70.2 LFP-Vs!  I'm glad you are enjoying them, and cryo Gold Lions
do sound great with them.  They really open up the sound with the 70.2s.


Hi Brent,

Have you compared the 1960s French Madza tube to the Miniwatt Dario E188CC (France).  I wonder how similar they are.  It would be nice to find some tubes that are very close to or essentially the same as the MD (just like the Amperex 8416 PQ sounds the same as the Amperex 7308 PQ, but with a 12V heater). 


All,

I still need to listen to more NOS 12AX7s.  In the Cassabria headphone amp, I'm actually having a hard time pulling out the stock JJ 12AX7 (ECC83).  It just sounds so right in there from top to bottom - I don't know why, but it does!!! 


Happy rollin'

Vinnie

[alamakazam]

which tube should I get, if I want sweet slurpy female vocal

[BrentG]

Hi Brent,

Have you compared the 1960s French Madza [sic] tube to the Miniwatt Dario E188CC (France).  I wonder how similar they are.  It would be nice to find some tubes that are very close to or essentially the same as the MD (just like the Amperex 8416 PQ sounds the same as the Amperex 7308 PQ, but with a 12V heater). 

Vinnie

Vinnie,

My understanding is that these are the same tube. Mine have green Miniwatt Dario E188CC labels with F date codes; the boxes are red/blue/yellow labeled Miniwatt Dario with other text in French.

I have two of them, both purchased from Brent Jessee; I have not purchased any of them from Upscale Audio (and this tube no longer appears on their site), so I can't make that comparison.

This is a very rich sounding tube and is excellent is every regard - dynamics, bass/treble extension, tonal balance, and decay.

While I can imagine a better sounding tube, I cannot imagine being able to afford it.

-Brent

[fitmartin]

Speaking of tube rolling, just wish to mention I received a used Siemens 6922/E88CC tube yesterday and it stomps/smokes all the others I have sampled.

Strong tight bass, extended open airy top end and huge soundstage.

Anyone just getting into tube rolling ... this one may be the only one you need to buy!

They are about $150 NOS but I lucked out and got a perfectly fine used one for $65 on the audiomart here in Canada.

Healthy New Year to all!   

[Dobs]

I dug into my drawer of tubes and found a TELEFUNKEN E88CC and dropped it into my Sig15....  OMG!!! What an awesome tube. I hope it will last forever, because i looked at the value of that tube and it's very expensive now.

[fitmartin]

That tube is the Holy Grail of tubes according to my tube guy...great job finding one in a drawer!!!

His personal fav but unfortunately too rich for my budget.

ENJOY!

 

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Fitmartin,

Telefunken is up there for sure, but some will argue that the Amperex 6922 pinched waist is the holy grail (I feel like this is sounding a little DaVinci Code now  ).

I hope it will last forever, because i looked at the value of that tube and it's very expensive now.

In the RWA products, it should last nearly forever because:

- In-rush current limiting is really nice on the tube
- 40 second warm up time before applying B+ voltage is really nice on the tube
- Low voltage B+ is really nice on the tube

So in our tube stages, the tubes are loved and never abused. 

Vinnie

[Dobs]

In the RWA products, it should last nearly forever because:

- In-rush current limiting is really nice on the tube
- 40 second warm up time before applying B+ voltage is really nice on the tube
- Low voltage B+ is really nice on the tube

So in our tube stages, the tubes are loved and never abused. 

Vinnie

Sweet! This is what happen when you buy quality electronics smartly designed 
 

[Vinnie R.]

Enjoy it, Dobs!  And welcome to the RWA forum 

[Dobs]

Enjoy it, Dobs!  And welcome to the RWA forum 

It's very nice from you Vinnie, thanks.

[Dobs]

Someone compared the Telefunken E88CC with the EAT Cool Valve ECC88?

[Jannemann]

I also rolled the tube in my new Signature 16 and like to share my impressions here. Please don't care about my english as it is a foreign language for me.

I did not love the originally installed JJ tube very much. It wasn't able to reproduce really low frequences and sounded a little cool. In addition voices were compressed when there were lots of instruments playing simultaneously.

Before I decided to give Vinnies small amp a try ( to be honest I was looking for the 57 but Vinnie convinced me to buy a 16 instead because he thought that it has enough power to drive my Zu Soul Supreme. Great service Vinnie! Thank you! ) I used a Trafomatic 300b SET amp with very good tubes. Compared with it the Signature sounded worse.

I decided to remove the JJ and I installed a super strong Siemens grey shield CCa. The tonal balance of the amp immediately changed to perfection. It sounded much more broadbanded and the low frequences were extended in a way that I hadn't expected before while on the other hand the high frequences remained crystal clear and even more refined than before. At the same time it sounded so smooth and warm that it even outpasses my old 300bs.

Combined with the dead quiet background noise it is superior to the much more expensive Trafomatic amp. The compression of voices I experienced with the JJ vanished. Instead every instrument is in the right place and does not take influence on the center voice of the singer.

Don't ask me why but in addition the amp now has better groove. Of course the timing didn't change due to the Siemens tube but nevertheless the musical flow is more intense compared to the JJ.

And there is something I never experienced before. I hardly can believe that but with the Siemens tube the voices of fe. Big Daddy Wilson or Paolo Conte are not only wide but also deep. I mean, we are talkng about a stereo amp and I can hear ( feel ) the body of the person who is singing if closing my eyes.

I was very curious and switched back to the JJ just to find out that this wonderful effect vanished. Don't get me wrong. Even with this tube the amp is not bad. But with my old Siemens CCa it is by far the best amp I ever had at home. And according to the manual it not even passed its burn in time. So I hope that the tonal balance will even get better over time.

Very exciting!

Jan

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Jan,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum, and thank you for posting your impressions of the Signature 16 AND the tube you rolled in.

The tube can really make or break the overall amp / speaker synergy.  And it is an easy an fairly inexpensive way to fine tune the sound to
make it shine in your system.  So I'm glad you decided to try and got better results than the stock JJ. 

Some get a substantial change for the better when tube rolling (like you did).  Others find a small but noticeable change.  And then there is small amount of customers who seem to prefer the stock JJ tube the best. 

Yes - give it 100+ hours and you'll hear it get even better.  Just play music and enjoy it (no need for any special burn-in tracks or anything like that). 

Enjoy it, and thanks for posting!

Vinnie

[viggen]

Any advice on the 12ax7 vs 6922 in the sig 16?  Have you observed consistent differences between the tube families?  Thanks.

I am curious about this too.

[EL DRIFTO]

I swapped the stock tubes in my Isabella for a pair of telefunkens (E88Cs I believe). They were from Upscale Audio. They were cryo treated. Quite a big improvement and I am only about 20 hours into burning them in.

[Rudyg66]

I just recieved the cryo treated Telefunken E88cc Tubes from Upscale Audio.....
Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will report more details after some burn in...............