AVA Digital Preamp, quick review

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trebejo

AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« on: 8 Jan 2022, 05:26 am »
[N.B.: Fanboi index knob stuck at maximum]

I've been listening to the new AVA digital preamp for a couple of weeks. Since I'm also using the headphones, I have kept the Vision analog preamp on the signal path and I have been using the new DAC/Pre as a DAC, replacing an UltraDAC with its lovely little tubes inside. I suppose this is not a divorce, more like polygamy. My main motivation was convenience in the digital inputs, steering away from tubes for non-audio reasons, and an eventual arrival of balanced (ie XLR) amps someday.

The new DAC/Pre/etc is very, very, very quiet. I turn the knob on the analog preamp, I feed 0's to the digital pre and set its volume to maximum at 63 (= 26 - 1), I turn on the 600R with its 50ish db of gain, I put the analog knob to full blast for its 20db of gain, and I can't get either my gold-plated ears or the radioshack spl meter to notice that anything is turned on.

Sound? The new dude sounds wonderful, I'm "sure" it sounds better than the UltraDAC but to me they're close, not so easy to A/B DACs anyway, my room is not good enough for ultimate critical listening, I'm not a teenager anymore, and some other excuse I'll think up later. Did not use the comparator to compare with the UltraDAC because that would have been rude. I'm sure the tubes--and the vintage--of the old dac has to have a higher noise floor, but it was never really a problem. So to me the absence of noise I can measure is just one more thumbs-up to the engineering achievement that this device represents.  :thumb:

I think Area 51 sent a noise vacuum pump blueprint over to Minnesota, but Frank always has some cover story, nowadays probably something about Dan being a great engineer, proper testing, vetting before shipping, strategic bypass caps etc. At least the thing doesn't hover when I plug it in...

Is it worth getting? Superquiet, it plays all the ultrahighrez stuff that Shannon's theorem gives as superfluous (but not for editing! there the high rez officially matters), it gets out of the way, sounds musical, etc. If you don't use headphones, then it it also a (digital) preamp so the cost is offset by the complete management of delivering a digital signal to an amp without any additional cha$$is. It's not cheap by some standards (eg my paycheck) but man oh man, buy once and be done is what I see here. Thanks to its galvanic isolation and probable future-proofing, I see no reason to ever sell it.

Other non-golden-ear details...to quote Dave Jones, "don't plug it in, take it apaaht" was done, and this thing inside looks like ice cream. Like the AVA Comparator it has large clear labels by each component, generously spaced apart, soldered with joints to die for on PCBs thick as pancakes, capacitors you can't take home to Mother...ah. Servicing this beauty would be a breeze, but it'll probably run well into Captain Kirk's century from the looks of it. I had to talk myself into putting the cover back on and just listen to the thing.

OH AND IT HAS A TOUCH SCREEN

I almost forgot. It has a touch screen.

I suppose someday I'll plug in some balanced amp and give the XLR outputs a shot, skipping the analog pre. I don't know if my ears will be able to tell them apart, but the electrons probably will.

It's been a bit of a wait--dac chip factory on fire, covid, trade blocking, you name it--but to me the wait was worth it. Thanks Frank!

avahifi

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #1 on: 8 Jan 2022, 03:55 pm »
Thanks for your great comments.

Yes our Digital Preamplifier is really really quiet,  it does not move the 2 MV line on my scope.

My EE, Mithat, who does all the digital design work, went to extreme methods to make it so quiet.

Dan, my analog guy, did the M225 mono amps.  Together, they give me amazing new products.

Now please hook the Digital Preamp up to your power amp and speakers and listen again. Eliminating a preamp from the music amplification chain is another

interesting experience,

Frank

trebejo

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #2 on: 10 Jan 2022, 08:23 am »
Yikes, my apologies to Mithat Konar! IIRC he fully mathematized the UltraDAC, and now I get to thank him again.

Thanks Frank, I'm a couple  of technicalities away from finally doing what I've been "threatening" to do all these years, DAC ->  Amp. It's good to know that there is no need for the Vision analog preamp to feed the amp, now I just have to figure out how to bring it in for the headphones without having to manually plug and unplug the RCA cables from the DAC/Pre. Maybe there is a tape loop trick?

As for that wonderful hirez topic...I've been using the optical spdif and it sounds heavenly but I couldn't get past 96khz sampling with that connection and since all my audio philes are flac/44/48khz I could not be bothered. But a few minutes ago I got one of those "climb it 'cause it's there" impulses and went for the full 192khz. Since I'm using windows10 I had to install the recommended driver found at

https://amanero.com/drivers.htm

and after installing I rebooted (maybe not necessary). Then I had to get an off-the-shelf Microcenter USB 10' extension cord for the 6' A-to-B cord, making a 16' two-cord USB connection (yessssss), told the system to use the Amanero USB output, then had to go to Control Panel and do a couple of things, probably best shown with pictures:







So now, the 192khz file that was showing up as PCM48K on the touchscreen is showing up as PCM192K. Maybe someday I'll be able to tell the difference with my ears, at the moment all I notice is a look of utter contempt from the hard drive.

btw Linux and Apple "just work" and do not make you go through any of this.  :roll:

Since I just got through reading some of the usual character-shredding threads about how the USB extension could not possibly work, I better mention that the cord is called

"QVS USB 3.1 (Gen 1 Type-A) Male to USB 3.1 (Gen 1 Type-A) Female Cable 10 Ft. - Blue",

the one I bought is this one,

https://www.microcenter.com/product/328162/qvs-usb-31-(gen-1-type-a)-male-to-usb-31-(gen-1-type-a)-female-cable-10-ft-blue

...and if you know that what I'm doing does not work, just be happy for me that I haven't found the reason why.  :thumb:

trebejo

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #3 on: 10 Jan 2022, 08:41 am »
sorry double post

whitebird

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #4 on: 10 Jan 2022, 05:13 pm »
If you are using an opitical cable, per the user manual it can only process up to 96kHz files.  To get to 192, you will need to use the RCA based S/PDIF connection.  To quote the manual:

"The optical S/PDIF inputs are compatible with full-size TOSLINK- style cables. They support PCM digital audio up to 96kHz sample rates."

trebejo

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #5 on: 10 Jan 2022, 09:22 pm »
I was just thinking about how the new DigitalPre looks so  sharp, and then I saw this...



Frank,  do you know the man on keyboards?  8)

Tone Depth

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jan 2022, 07:05 pm »
Are you enjoying the sound via USB more than via Optical? Can you hear a difference?

mresseguie

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #7 on: 24 Jan 2022, 07:49 pm »
I was just thinking about how the new DigitalPre looks so  sharp, and then I saw this...



Frank,  do you know the man on keyboards?  8)

So who is he?

trebejo

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #8 on: 27 Jan 2022, 05:59 pm »
Are you enjoying the sound via USB more than via Optical? Can you hear a difference?

I don't think I can hear a difference. As the days have gone on, I'm surprised to hear a little more clarity in the lyrics in some albums (Shakira, Joni Mitchell, Rush), but that's not USB vs optical, it's UltraDAC vs NewDAC. That is a bit "objective" compared to the usual sound standards.

As for the picture, I found it here, https://www.discogs.com/artist/107667-Murat-Konar

ckullmann1

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #9 on: 2 Feb 2022, 05:03 pm »
Is there an update to your initial impressions? Also, can any other new owners of the preamp/dac share their thoughts on its performance?  Thanks.

trebejo

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #10 on: 2 Feb 2022, 08:12 pm »
Is there an update to your initial impressions? Also, can any other new owners of the preamp/dac share their thoughts on its performance?  Thanks.

Eh...just more of the same?  :thumb:

I did manage to do as Frank recommends, and go "straight" from the Digital Pre to the loudspeakers, which sounds excellent. I was using the Vision preamp in the linestage because I listen to headphones as much as speakers, and the Vision pre is also a headphone amplifier. I finally figured out how to use the tape monitor option to pipe through the Vision pre without altering the sound (aside from whatever minimal effect is caused by the extra wiring). It works well.

Overall my general impressions have not really changed. The clarity with this beast is really impressive. I am enjoying listening to familiar songs for little nuances in the singer's interpretation. I continue to be surprised by that--the hybrid UltraDAC that it is replacing ain't no chump...

Tone Depth

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #11 on: 24 Feb 2022, 06:43 am »
My DVA Digital Preamp arrived some time ago, and I recently substituted it for my AVA Vision Hybrid DAC. My digital sources presently go directly to the digital preamp, then to my analog preamp and on to my power amp. My streamer is connected with optical S/PDIF to my digital preamp. When I plugged it in and gave it a listen I was immediately impressed with the improved sound quality, functioning as a DAC in my system and decoding various high res audio files and streamed internet radio broadcasts. Post-holiday season, I've been to busy to sit still for very long and carefully listen.

I have since received my A2D, but haven't yet had the time to reroute signals in the system. When I do put in the A2D, it will digitize all analog sources from my analog preamp and send them to the digital preamp, and then from there directly to my power amp. This is to continue to use analog sources for as long as I wish.

Tone Depth

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #12 on: 5 Oct 2022, 03:13 am »
I'm ready to try USB, but I'm confused about what USB cable to order:

1. Website says "The USB input is Audio Class 2 (UAC2) compliant."
2. Manual says the input is "USB 2.0 Type B."
3. Anyone using USB 3.0 Type B, USB 3.1 Type B? My streamer has both 2.0 and 3.0 ports to choose from.

I emailed Frank about an hour ago and hope to receive a response tomorrow.

WGH

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #13 on: 5 Oct 2022, 04:09 pm »
USB 3.1 is backward compatible with USB 2.0 and USB 1.1

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=USB+3.0+backward+compatible

https://www.cmd-ltd.com/advice-centre/usb-chargers-and-power-modules/usb-and-power-module-product-help/usb-compatibility/

This afternoon I'll put an old USB 2.0 cable between my music server and DAC and see if it transfers DSD 256 and 768 kHz without hiccups.

Tone Depth

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #14 on: 5 Oct 2022, 09:55 pm »
Frank got back via email to me and said the preamp has a USB 2.0 Type B socket. A USB 2.0 cable can be plugged into either a USB 2.0 Type A or USB 3.0 Type A socket on the streamer, with no impact on performance.

WGH

Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #15 on: 5 Oct 2022, 11:49 pm »
I tried 2 USB cables from my cable stash: a generic USB with a pretty silver shield and the Schiit PYST, which is a renamed Straight Wire USB-Link without the rebranding. The PYST is $20, the Straight Wire is $50, both are USB 2.0.



Both cables were able to transmit DSD256 and 768kHz PCM perfectly without dropouts.

The generic 2.0 cable sounded horrible, the sound was flat, uninvolving with attenuated highs and zero low level information. This cable made my stereo sound like I was still using my old NAD 7155 receiver I bought in 1985. Not Recommended.

The PYST (Straight Wire USB-Link) was a pleasant surprise. The sound was clear with great separation and depth. Bass is a little phat and not as tight as the Hapa USB cables but with many monitor speakers this is a good thing, finally your room has bass you can feel.

"USB-Link Straight Wire applies all of its knowledge from over 25 years of creating Audiophile cables to this USB 2.0 digital interface. Utilizing Compressed Conductor Technology, a Straight Wire innovation, with a Silver Plated Data path delivers excellent digital data transmission for most USB enabled devices. The power path is lower resistance than required by the standard. Gold Contacts ensure minimal corrosion."


You would have to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars to get better sound. Highly Recommended.

Tone Depth

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #16 on: 6 Oct 2022, 12:02 am »
Thanks for the info, much appreciated!

Tone Depth

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Re: AVA Digital Preamp, quick review
« Reply #17 on: 23 Oct 2022, 12:20 am »
I had some spare time today to try my new USB cable between my linux audio file server/streamer and the digital preamp (DAC). I can confirm the DAC appears in the output listing for the server as Amanero, good, that means USB audio is recognized as plug and play on my server.

I already knew the DAC plays USB, from trying it out on Wayne's great system.

Then I look on the DAC screen and for the USB source it shows playback rate as unsupported. Manual configuration is often the case with Linux for me. Next step is connecting with local Linux gurus for help reconfiguring Linux, to direct the digital signal to the server USB port.
« Last Edit: 26 Oct 2022, 03:09 pm by Tone Depth »