PassLabs XA25

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johnthompson

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PassLabs XA25
« on: 18 Sep 2021, 08:35 am »
Hi,
New member here. 
Is anyone using Pass Labs XA25 with their M3's and care to share what their experience might be?
I have NAD C658 + C298 combo and just looking for a bit more  meat on the bones with older recordings from 60's and 70's.
Thanks in advance.

J

Memphisblues

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #1 on: 19 Sep 2021, 12:54 pm »
Hi John,

I don’t think you will be disappointed.  I’m running a Pass XA25 with a LTA MZ2 as the preamp with my M3s.  It sounds great in my moderate size room.  Plenty of power when you want to rock.   I would recommend a good preamp.  That’s probably my next upgrade.  I spoke to Clayton prior to my purchase and my combo was a go.  I’ve had a fantastic experience with the company.   The speakers are smashingly good!

Mike

Tyson

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #2 on: 19 Sep 2021, 02:22 pm »
I heard a very similar combo at Steven Stone's place (Pass plus the X2's which is also dual passive 15" drivers).  One of the very best setups I've heard in my life.  And I've heard a lot of setups. 

markmuse

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #3 on: 19 Sep 2021, 08:16 pm »
I have the x5's (97dB efficiency) and bought an xa25, but returned it. In some ways I am sorry I did return it. It was the best layered depth in imaging I have ever heard, bar none. I have never heard anything like it before or since. I returned it because of noise/distortion at higher volume levels.

Tangram

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #4 on: 19 Sep 2021, 09:42 pm »
I have a similar amp, the XA30.5. Drives the M3s effortlessly and beautifully. Gets a bit hot but nothing to worry about.

aniwolfe

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #5 on: 19 Sep 2021, 09:57 pm »
I have an XA25 paired with a set of Spatial X2's and love it. Its never too forward or too laid back....just right. Very natural tone, never bright and powerful.

glfrancis

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #6 on: 20 Sep 2021, 02:15 am »
Pardon the potential derail, but has anyone tried other amps before deciding on the pass labs (bryston? Van alstine?)?

aniwolfe

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #7 on: 20 Sep 2021, 02:43 am »
Pardon the potential derail, but has anyone tried other amps before deciding on the pass labs (bryston? Van alstine?)?

I had the LTA ZOTL 40, preferred the XA25.

Mr. Big

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #8 on: 20 Sep 2021, 01:17 pm »
I have few amps and the one that makes the Sapphire's show how good they are is the 400 watt McIntosh MC 402. Imaging, dynamics, ease, beautiful render midrange, and a bottom if on the recording can really hit you in the chest. I thought 400 watts would be overkill but it is not, the ease on dynamic swings is easily heard, no forwardness, brightness, nor flat sound, the sound just keeps getting better and better, of course, there is a level where the recording can be played too loud for the producer intent so you know when you ruining the recording with playing at a too high of a level.  I HAVE some Telarc recordings I've seen my meters swing past 40 watts on peak dynamics. So don't skimp on power the M3's love it. On tube amps, I go with 60 watts to 100 watts. Preamps make a huge impact also, I pulled out my Mark Levinson 326S that I had in storage for several years and after it burned back in I can hear why I hung onto while other preamps were sold, it gives you the whole of the presentation and feels, without doing each instrument sounding great but also separate without the feel of the whole. I call it head listening, where the ML 326S hits you in the soul, and the funny thing is it has more detail top to bottom but none of it is spotlighted, that took some getting used to, but once you catch it, all the others things come into focus, it not flashily but more real in a natural way, and the M3's convey that.
« Last Edit: 22 Sep 2021, 12:07 am by Mr. Big »

newzooreview

Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #9 on: 2 Feb 2022, 09:06 pm »
My XA25 just arrived today.

It's new (from Moon Audio), so I expect it will need some break in, but not likely as much as my M3 Sapphires which arrived this past September. One of the reviewers suggested a cumulative ~240 hours (30 days, 8 hours per day) to fully break in. I'll post some thoughts on the sound compared to my Benchmark AHB2 once things seem to settle in.

One thing I noticed is that the XA25 now has a power switch on the back in addition to the button on the front. Turning off the button on the front now puts the XA25 into standby. In the reviews when the XA25 was launched, there was no on/off switch on the back: no standby mode existed. It's good to see that slight tweak.





The binding posts are very substantial and take banana plugs or bare wire, pins, or spades inserted from the bottom. I took a photo of the slot on the underside of the binding posts since I hadn't seen one anywhere previously. There are no photographs of the rear of the XA25 on the Pass Labs website either.







 

aniwolfe

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #10 on: 2 Feb 2022, 10:03 pm »
I personally keep the front button engaged and use the Switch on the back to turn on/off the amp. I believe they added that button in the back for regulations outside the U.S. The unit isn't really ever in Standby Mode.

newzooreview

Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #11 on: 2 Feb 2022, 10:47 pm »
I personally keep the front button engaged and use the Switch on the back to turn on/off the amp. I believe they added that button in the back for regulations outside the U.S. The unit isn't really ever in Standby Mode.

Interesting. The back is not easily accessible in my setup, so I'm very glad there's a front button.

At least if I forget to turn it off before bed I'm just wasting a bit of electricity rather than wasting the life of a NOS tube that is required for best sound.

Tangram

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #12 on: 2 Feb 2022, 11:12 pm »
I leave the back switch on all the time. Very little power draw in standby. I have an XA30.5. You will LOVE your XA25!

newzooreview

Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #13 on: 3 Feb 2022, 12:10 am »
All is up and running. The volume setting on the preamp (Holo Serene KTE) is not any different for my usual listening levels. I haven't measured that  with a test signal, so I would just say that it doesn't jump out at me that I'm much higher or lower on the volume even though the XA25 is nominally 25W Class A and the Benchmark AHB2 is 100W (both into 8 Ohms). This tracks with the data: the XA25 actually measures at 80W, and the gain of the two amps is similar.

Some initial observations (It's in its first 30 minutes playing music after testing that phase and channels are correct).

Design/Operation

1. The blue light in the front is perfect. It is just barely visible, just enough to know the amp is on but not enough to call attention to itself. That's a big relief compared to the blazing blue LEDs on a lot of things.

2. I'm burning it in with the stock power cord. I decided to start with a baseline before trying other options on hand.

3. The way the aluminum faceplate is brushed, it catches a bit of the nearby color. My other equipment is black, but the way they've brushed the aluminum makes it fit in better than I thought it might.

4. It is built extremely well. No surprise.

Sound (listening to a collection of Mozart pieces that I've listened to almost every day for the past year, which sounds nuts but is helpful in evaluating new equipment).

It is already doing very good things. It is not a subtle difference.

1. The XA25 has better grip on the bass and is already providing more tone and texture in the bass than the AHB2. There is depth and grunt to instruments (e.g., massed cellos) that wasn't there before. It's more realistic and palpable.

2. It is clearly more dynamic. It is much more nimble in a natural way.

3. Mid-range tone and separation of instruments are better. The AHB2 certainly wasn't bleached and monotone when it came to tone, but the SA25 is on another level.

4. It keeps drawing my attention away to simply listen to the music. The emotion and expressiveness of the instruments is very well conveyed, again much better than the AHB2.

AllanS

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #14 on: 27 Feb 2022, 04:24 pm »
All is up and running.

I'm following your experience with a great deal of interest as your set up and expectations seem similar to mine.  This may be as much a philosophical question as it is technical, but it's a question that has me a bit perplexed none the less.

The XA25 is obviously the Pass Labs entry level that forgoes some of the flexibility and spec sheet performance that another manufacturers mid or higher point component might offer (primarily XLR, bridged mono, and outright power).  This kinda locks you into the single XA25 as the component you build a system around, unless you plan to upgrade in the future to something higher up the price/performance curve.  For me the XA25 is pretty much at my end game amp price point.

I think of a (pick your pair) Mercedes / Toyota analogy.  For the same money a mid point Toyota in my mind is fundamentally a better vehicle than an entry level Mercedes.  Does this analogy hold in Pass Lab / Insert your own comparison?  In your experience and expectations is there something fundamentally superior about the Pass Lab that lead you to choose it over something else that might offer more flexibility?

I understand the XA25 is just one of several players in a synergistic system.  I'm most likely ordering a pair of M4 and this amplifier / speaker pairing seems to be the most critical in that system.

Thanks

RDavidson

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #15 on: 27 Feb 2022, 05:20 pm »
There's really no such thing as "entry level" Pass Labs. The XA25 is different from the rest of the Pass Labs line as it uses a different topology and different output devices. It is a unique amp in the line. It's "entry level" only in price point and total output, but DEFINITELY not in performance. In a way, I think it is better to think of it as a large First Watt amp moreso than a small Pass Labs amp...if that makes sense. Generally speaking, going up the Pass Labs line gets you more power. But if you don't need the power, the XA25 could very easily be an end game amp. I LOVE mine. For me (and my system and listening preferences), it is a better amp than the XA30.8 and XA30.5 which I've owned. I've also owned most of the First Watt amps as well, just to share some perspective.

Tyson

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #16 on: 27 Feb 2022, 05:25 pm »
There's really no such thing as "entry level" Pass Labs. The XA25 is different from the rest of the Pass Labs line as it uses a different topology and different output devices. It is a unique amp in the line. It's "entry level" only in price point and total output, but DEFINITELY not in performance. In a way, I think it is better to think of it as a large First Watt amp moreso than a small Pass Labs amp...if that makes sense. Generally speaking, going up the Pass Labs line gets you more power. But if you don't need the power, the XA25 could very easily be an end game amp. I LOVE mine. For me (and my system and listening preferences), it is a better amp than the XA30.8 and XA30.5 which I've owned. I've also owned most of the First Watt amps as well, just to share some perspective.

Which First Watt amps have you owned?  And how does the XA25 compare to them?  I have a BA3 which I love a lot (even like it better than the First Watt SIT amp a friend has).  But I'm curious about how good the XA25 is in your experience.

AllanS

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #17 on: 27 Feb 2022, 06:34 pm »
There's really no such thing as "entry level" Pass Labs. The XA25 is different from the rest of the Pass Labs line as it uses a different topology and different output devices. It is a unique amp in the line. It's "entry level" only in price point and total output, but DEFINITELY not in performance. In a way, I think it is better to think of it as a large First Watt amp moreso than a small Pass Labs amp...if that makes sense. Generally speaking, going up the Pass Labs line gets you more power. But if you don't need the power, the XA25 could very easily be an end game amp. I LOVE mine. For me (and my system and listening preferences), it is a better amp than the XA30.8 and XA30.5 which I've owned. I've also owned most of the First Watt amps as well, just to share some perspective.
So maybe the only thing that's obvious is my ignorance of the Pass Labs line up.  I haven't yet but will look at the First Watt line up to get better idea of where and how the XA25 fits.  Thank you. 
But since you mentioned it I would appreciate understanding your listening preferences and other components and how the XA25 is a better fit than XA30.n. 
I'm really most interested in relatively low SPL performance than anything.  I'll crank it up occasionally but 99% of my listening, even critical, is going to be < ~65-70 dB average at 8' from the speakers.
Thanks again.  This is all very helpful.

NoahH

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Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #18 on: 27 Feb 2022, 10:32 pm »
Hi,
New member here. 
Is anyone using Pass Labs XA25 with their M3's and care to share what their experience might be?
I have NAD C658 + C298 combo and just looking for a bit more  meat on the bones with older recordings from 60's and 70's.
Thanks in advance.

J

Your post struck me as I am looking at amps right now, and Pass and something with the Purifi modules like your C298 are on my radar.

My issue with class D has been the 'meat on the bones' thing too. I think it is from the little Hypex power supplies the class D amps often use.

Since you are a NAD fan, any chance you have listened to the M23 yet? Same purifi modules but lots of other changed parts including the power supply, and I am curious how it compares.

newzooreview

Re: PassLabs XA25
« Reply #19 on: 27 Feb 2022, 11:12 pm »
The Nelson Pass interviews on Youtube with Steve Guttenberg are a good introduction to the First Watt and Pass Labs amps and the design approach. The Nelson Pass presentations at Burning Amp are also interesting.

My XA25 now has just over 200 hours on it, and all of my original impressions remain. I am very very pleased with the XA25 and will be selling the AHB2. The AHB2 was always enjoyable, but it is just not in the same league as the XA25. Like others, I wanted to be persuaded that the measurements of the AHB2 meant that I would never need or want another amp.

1. With burn in, the XA25's grip on the bass and bass tone and texture has refined somewhat. As I mentioned earlier, there is depth and grunt to instruments that wasn't there before. It's more realistic and palpable. Something like a stand-up bass is placed in space with air around the instrument that I was not able to hear before.

2. The XA25 remains more dynamic. It is much more nimble in a natural way.

3. Mid-range tone and separation of instruments have continued to improve with break in. The AHB2 wasn't bleached in tone, but the SA25 is on another level. The break-in has smoothed the presentation in a good way. There's no less detail or insight, but things that sounded a bit tight and congested have relaxed to be more natural.

4. The extraordinary insight that the XA25 provides, combined with the sensitivity of the M3 Sapphires, makes listening at low volume a great pleasure. Even with quiet listening, I get imaging and texture in the deep bass and subtle details down in the mix are audible. With the M3 Sapphires, the XA25 can also drive the speakers louder than I would ever listen from 8 feet away in a medium-sized room.