[TJ-Sully]

Hey Joe.....where you going with that....just kiddin'

For what it's worth - I'm in absolute agreement with Rusty and JT's comments above.   

Given your circumstance (boatloads of CD's), go with Bryston's new CD player and you will be in audiophile heaven. You can't go wrong.  Includes a dual balanced DAC and balanced class A output stage. So...just think..you're still getting a great quality DAC inside the player!!

And you won't have to rip all those damn CD's for nothing .

It's a no brainer. 

Have fun!

TJ

[bapcha]

The law of diminishing returns applies in high end audio. I am yet to find a better DAC/Streamer than my near almost ten year old Slim Devices/Logitech Transporter

[ebag4]

First of all, avoid getting sucked into the high resolution void. Sound quality does NOT come from extreme bitrates, it comes from the sound engineer in the studio and the guy that did the mastering. A normal human will not hear the difference between regular cd resolution (16/44.1) and DSD (24+/pointless).

I agree with this, the magic comes from the mastering and not the resolution.  However not all the best sound/masterings are available on 16/44:1, some of the DSD remasters are better than their CD counterparts, Elton John’s catalog is an excellent example of this.

I have experienced a significant difference in the quality of DACs as well, but that is not to say a CD player in your circumstance doesn’t make sense, it may depending on your preference to play optical discs.  I can tell you that in my system, a Vinnie Rossi LIO DHT/Takatsuki 300Bs with the DAC 2.0 sounds significantly better playing from my NAS using Roon via a microRendu and USB input than it does using an OPPO 203 via coaxial into the same DAC, of course that could be due to differences in the input to that DAC, but that has been my experience.

Best of luck in your hunt.

Regards,
Ed

[Big Red Machine]

I use a Bricasti M1. It is now a $15k dac. I have used it for more than 3 years and don't want to part with it to have it upgraded with the latest software!

I intensely auditioned it against MSB and some other $10k+ dacs. I made the right decision.

The dac is the heart and soul of your system and if you have a, say, $500 CDP it will have a $100 dac in it. Not good.

I've learned my lesson in this hobby and that is to get the best of the best for a key few components to set yourself up for nirvana. The dac is the first item to nail down.

Some of the more modest dacs that are worth looking into have been mentioned: Exogal, Schiit, etc in the $1000 to $2500 range. And as the fast dog mentioned, don't buy a crappy cable. Look at Stealth, TotalDac USB, or Jena labs.

BTW, I've got 1000 CD's boxed up. Who wants to purchase them for $500? Streaming is the shiznit! And back up your hard drive!!!!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Hi-Rez music and up sampling certainly do give you better sound quality with a great sounding DAC.  I use Bug Head music player and routinely up sample music to 88, 176, 192, 354 and high depending upon the recording.  In most instances the sound is vastly improved.  A big plus is that there are many versions and many settings so you can tailor the sound to your system and even smooth out poorly recorded bright sounding music.  I have also used HQ player and it can do the same thing and even up sample to DSD.  It works great, especially when paired with room.

Big Red, that Bricasti M1 DAC is awesome.  I got to hear it at Axpona a few years ago with Tidal speakers and the Bricasti monoblocks.  They were using the M1 as a preamp as well.  It was one of the top three sounding rooms along with the Vinni Rossi room and the Audio Kinesis room with BAT gear and the Exocgal Comet DAC.  The Bricasti room was probably the best that I have heard and I have heard a few systems totaling over $120K in gear.

[PeteG]

I use a Bricasti M1. It is now a $15k dac. I have used it for more than 3 years and don't want to part with it to have it upgraded with the latest software!

I intensely auditioned it against MSB and some other $10k+ dacs. I made the right decision.

The dac is the heart and soul of your system and if you have a, say, $500 CDP it will have a $100 dac in it. Not good.

I've learned my lesson in this hobby and that is to get the best of the best for a key few components to set yourself up for nirvana. The dac is the first item to nail down.

Some of the more modest dacs that are worth looking into have been mentioned: Exogal, Schiit, etc in the $1000 to $2500 range. And as the fast dog mentioned, don't buy a crappy cable. Look at Stealth, TotalDac USB, or Jena labs.

BTW, I've got 1000 CD's boxed up. Who wants to purchase them for $500? Streaming is the shiznit! And back up your hard drive!!!!

Big Red good info, have you played around with music servers/streamers (Auralic,Lumin,SOtM) at all. Seems to be a lot out there now of days, would like your input.

[Big Red Machine]

Big Red good info, have you played around with music servers/streamers (Auralic,Lumin,SOtM) at all. Seems to be a lot out there now of days, would like your input.

I sold off my uRendu as I could not keep the signal connected to the wireless. A major PITA. I looked at buying a Aurender but when it is said and done my HAL MS-2 with outboard HD and JRiver is essentially the same darn thing. And I much prefer JRiver. And you pay through the nose for more than 4 TB's in servers and 5 TB external HD's are only $150. I have not missed the uRendu at all. My system has never sounded so real now that I have Jena Cables IC's, Cerious Matrix SC's, and Stealth PC's. And the new speakers and amp of course.

So a HAL is under $1k as a down music player. So for half the price you can customize your own "server".

[Big Red Machine]

Big Red, that Bricasti M1 DAC is awesome.  I got to hear it at Axpona a few years ago with Tidal speakers and the Bricasti monoblocks.  They were using the M1 as a preamp as well.  It was one of the top three sounding rooms along with the Vinni Rossi room and the Audio Kinesis room with BAT gear and the Exocgal Comet DAC.  The Bricasti room was probably the best that I have heard and I have heard a few systems totaling over $120K in gear.

Redbook is fantastic on the M1. And yes, you can hear blacker backgrounds with anything above Redbook but DSD is so black it can be boring, believe it or not.

[PeteG]

Thanks Pete.

[bapcha]

Some of the more modest dacs that are worth looking into have been mentioned: Exogal, Schiit, etc in the $1000 to $2500 range. And as the fast dog mentioned, don't buy a crappy cable. Look at Stealth, TotalDac USB, or Jena labs.

Digital Cables are digital cables. An OEM Apple or Dell USB cable will have exactly the same data as a Stealth Cable (just quoting, I do not care to look at Stealth or Jena cables). In fact, it can be easily proved the the cables (OEM vs. grail cables) transmit the same data. This brings us to the most practical Audio Engineer I have never met. Peter Lyngdorf - who recommends the use of cheap ethernet cabling on his mega $ Steinway-Lyngdorfs. The reason? It does not matter (I can get more technical, but will hold back for now)

At this point, I need to give a shout out to Bryston's Engineers - who asked me to use any 10A fast blow fuse in my 14B-SST (when the outputs shorted by mistake)

Summary: Bryston/Lyngdorf engineers - 1
Idiotically expensive USB Cables - 0

Bapcha

[G E]

I have gone another route and I am now an Analog Luddite.

I never play CDs at home, I'm selling off most of my hi-res discs (sacd-DVD-audio) and just bought a new phono preamp and procured 8 Mullard NOS 12ax7/12au7 tubes.

If you really want to hear the music, get a turntable. Keep the CD/digital files but I'll wager a dollar to your doughnut you will stop listening to digital after a taste of analog.

And yes, Bryston can help you with Analog.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Digital Cables are digital cables. An OEM Apple or Dell USB cable will have exactly the same data as a Stealth Cable (just quoting, I do not care to look at Stealth or Jena cables). In fact, it can be easily proved the the cables (OEM vs. grail cables) transmit the same data. This brings us to the most practical Audio Engineer I have never met. Peter Lyngdorf - who recommends the use of cheap ethernet cabling on his mega $ Steinway-Lyngdorfs. The reason? It does not matter (I can get more technical, but will hold back for now)

At this point, I need to give a shout out to Bryston's Engineers - who asked me to use any 10A fast blow fuse in my 14B-SST (when the outputs shorted by mistake)

Summary: Bryston/Lyngdorf engineers - 1
Idiotically expensive USB Cables - 0

Bapcha

I am not going to get into a long drawn out discussion or war about usb cables but they can sound different and it is clearly system dependent.  And I can't explain why.  I use to be a non believer in cables until we started doing cable shoot outs.

I had 4 of my audiophile buddies over to my house and we did a usb cable shoot out with a $600 Wire Wold Platinum cable, a $600 lightspeed cable both owned by one of my friends.  We also used a $125 Wire World Starlight Red  and a $40 Pangea.  The results were eye opening to say the least and the differences were not subtle. 

In my system with my Luxman DAC, the Platinum was smooth, detailed, musical with just a hint of warmth.  The lighspeed was so bright and glaring it was not really listenable but it had the most detail (it is interesting to note that  in my friends system the Lightspeed did not sound bright and it was very neutral and he preferred it over the Platinum).  The Starlight sounded overly dark and warm to the point of sounding veiled.  The Pangea, was thin, bright and lacked detail and resolution. 

To each his own and believe what you want to believe. 

[Pundamilia]

@ G E: Enjoy your Ludditeness.

One of the wonderful things about this hobby is that there is room for a wide variety of preferences. Having been through analogue sound systems and tubes, I much prefer the consistency of digital. No ticks, pops or hiss, no deterioration of the medium or of the amplification chain.

As the French say: Chacun a son goût!

[vintage9594]

I switched from CD years ago to a Dac when I decided to put a Mac Mini in my system.  I use a Audio Note Signature Dac 3.1 out to a full Herron Audio system....between my Mac and AN Dac is a Sonicweld diverter which is a USB to BNC converter.  I am addicted to ITunes only because the music choices I have available. 
I have in the last 3 years replaced a Mark Levinson No.360s, BMC Ultra Dac and PSAudio Directstream Dac(most recent version).  I wasn’t hugely impressed with any of them other than the Levinson piece and it was the oldest technology of the 3 and when I switched to the AN Dac I never looked back and have yet to hear a CD player that sounds better than either the Levinson or AN Dac in my system using ITunes.  So I am on the get a Dac side of the fence and I....unlike the poster above do believe in upgraded cables and that is also from trying out many different brands and designs over the years.....believe me I would have rather bought some cheap wire from radio shack/Lowe’s or Home Depot and saved some cash but cheap cables sound like cheap cables.

Good Luck with the digital search!

[Anonamemouse]

Digital Cables are digital cables. An OEM Apple or Dell USB cable will have exactly the same data as a Stealth Cable (just quoting, I do not care to look at Stealth or Jena cables). In fact, it can be easily proved the the cables (OEM vs. grail cables) transmit the same data. This brings us to the most practical Audio Engineer I have never met. Peter Lyngdorf - who recommends the use of cheap ethernet cabling on his mega $ Steinway-Lyngdorfs. The reason? It does not matter (I can get more technical, but will hold back for now)

At this point, I need to give a shout out to Bryston's Engineers - who asked me to use any 10A fast blow fuse in my 14B-SST (when the outputs shorted by mistake)

Summary: Bryston/Lyngdorf engineers - 1
Idiotically expensive USB Cables - 0

Bapcha

I actually met Peter Lyngdorf last sunday, at the XFI in The Netherlands, where he did a demo on his very expensive Steinway series. The digital was connected with a (shielded) el cheapo stock USB cable and a standard cat 6 network cable. Because "it doesn't matter, digital is digital" as he proclaimed during the demo.

[Early B.]

I actually met Peter Lyngdorf last sunday, at the XFI in The Netherlands, where he did a demo on his very expensive Steinway series. The digital was connected with a (shielded) el cheapo stock USB cable and a standard cat 6 network cable. Because "it doesn't matter, digital is digital" as he proclaimed during the demo.

That's a short-sighted perspective. No one would argue that "digital is digital" or that "bits are bits," but a good cable does more than transmit information. It needs to do so cleanly which means eliminating EMI/RFI. A high end cable is likely to do a better job in propagating a cleaner signal than an el cheapo cable. 

[vintage9594]

Tip of the day “Make sure when you are comparing cables you arent doing this”

[TransportPlanner]

Uh oh, looks like this risks going from a DAC discussion to a cables one 
As far as I can tell, the only cable worth spending more than $20-$30 on are analogue ones, particularly RCA interconnects. I tried a $6 cheapie vs the $130 ATC one that I bought, and the difference was night and day, most noticeable in terms of achieving clean, rather than bloated bass. I also listened to a $250 Chord interconnect, and the step-up was a lot smaller. That's all I needed to know really...

As far as DACs go, yes, they can make a big difference. I A/B tested the Chord Qutest ($1,900) vs the Audiolab M-DAC+ ($1,200). I went home with the Qutest. Or rather, I placed my order for it, which took a month, even here in the UK. I feel a lot happier spending $1900 on the Qutest than $1200 on the MDAC+, for the same reason people here spend thousands on nice speakers. The bass with the Qutest was SO clean, crisp, and as a result, punchy. The bass with the MDAC+ was bloated and nondescript. Also, the Qutest really brings out individual instruments so that you hear everything individually rather than as a confined mix, and for well-recorded tracks, this means that you really get a good feel of the composition coming together. The only downside right now is that I feel the Qutest is "lacking emotion" a bit, but this is probably more due to my current speaker and amp setup - a DAC shouldn't add a sonic signature. I'm getting new speakers shortly so I will reserve further judgement until then  :

Are there cheaper alternatives to the Qutest that may be as good or better? Probably. But I'm confident that it will blow any DAC that's less than $500 or so out of the water.

[TJ-Sully]

Great discussion folks. 

I switched to a fully digital system years ago and have never looked back (sort of).
The advantages are many. But in a nostalgic kind of way, I miss spinning vinyl - the lushness and warmth.  Almost everyday, I walk past a stack of albums in my basement and say....one day baby...one day I'll get a new turntable and phono preamp - and they'll be back.

Cables matter.  No doubt about it.

Interconnects and power cables DO make a difference. Whether you like it or not - that's the beauty of this hobby - you get to choose!   And I choose to buy good quality cables for not-so-ridiculous prices.
In fact, I just bought a new micro USB cable from Curious cables - and gonna try it out tonight  (connecting external HD to BDP1). Should be fun!

TJ

[hibuckhobby]

I have both analog and digital and say that I prefer the sound of vinyl to that of bits,
but both sound very good to these old ears and it's hard to beat the convenience of
digital...have to get out of my listening chair fewer times
Hibuck....