Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?

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forky

Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« on: 18 Aug 2021, 01:01 am »
Hello,

Newbie here.

My system is in the basement on a concrete slab on carpet and sitting on a Butcher Block Acoustic rack. I don't know how accurate these are but I downloaded an iphone app called "vibometer" and then cranked up to about 85 db or so, placed the phone on the top shelf and there was essentially nothing registering. I couldn't feel anything by touch.

The CD player is on the middle shelf and I already bought Isoacoustics for it and the top shelf holds a VPI Prime Signature (which has pretty good isolation feet - just received and haven't set up yet) and my int tube amp.

I don't see what the need would be for more damping but I'm probably missing something.........? Thanks.

Big Red Machine


forky

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #2 on: 18 Aug 2021, 02:23 am »
thanks. I did a search but somehow missed that one.

Photon46

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #3 on: 18 Aug 2021, 01:04 pm »
If you are looking to extract the maximum potential of your equipment consider going beyond the basics. While pricey, Stillpoints 100% live up to their promised improvements beyond basic vibration control in my experience. My SolidSteel rack has cone "isolated" shelving, is sand filled, and located on Boston Acoustics graphite feet. I started using Stillpoints with speakers first (Tidal Piano Cera) as advised and was very pleased at the improved resolution and musicality. I recently got two more sets and after experimentation I settled on what was generally forecast as the best location, under the amp (PS Audio BHK 250) and PS Audio power regenerator. It may seem somewhat outside the realm of reason that minute degrees of internal vibration inside equipment could so greatly affect resolution and other parameters of reproduction but my experience definitely validates their use. Negative effects of vibration come from both external sources entering equipment and internally generated vibrations. That's why some manufacturers use small internal Stillpoints standoffs to mount circuit boards, etc.

aln

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Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #4 on: 18 Aug 2021, 04:37 pm »
Interested in the app.  Can you give the correct name of it - couldn’t find anything under vibometer.

forky

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #5 on: 18 Aug 2021, 06:56 pm »
It is from EXA mobile. It just shows as "vibometer" on my iphone. There are probably 5-7 to choose from in the app store and I just decided on this one.

A bit more info: I already have the GAIA 2's for my incoming speakers so those are covered. I have Oreas under my CD player (Marantz Ruby).

What I'm wondering about is how much, if any is needed for my top shelf which is my VPI Signature Prime which already has these: https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/vpi/products/vpi-classic-signature-feet-set-of-four and have some "cushion" to them - quite a bit actually. Then there is my tube int. amp but as mentioned I think the vibration getting to that shelf is almost zero. I understand that the TT will itself create internal vibrations but will the tube amp?

It's all relative but I've spent quite a bit in the past month and am hitting my (somewhat) short-term limit on this - but at the same time want to figure this out as best as I can before I spend more $. thanks again.

Photon46

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #6 on: 18 Aug 2021, 07:29 pm »
Amplifiers definitely create internal vibrations that vibration controls help ameliorate. Decware amplifiers has a page about tube amps in particular with regard to the matter: https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZAFP.html

forky

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #7 on: 18 Aug 2021, 08:11 pm »
Great, thank you, will read that next.

JLM

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Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #8 on: 19 Aug 2021, 12:16 pm »
Mass is your friend when trying to tame vibrations.  It will increase the energy needed to excite and lower the resonate frequency.  Coupling masses can only improve the situation.  Tonearms and exposed tubes are bad, after all they're light and cantilevers (like a springboard).  High sound pressure levels and soft floors (wooden) are obviously bad.  Your rack should have spikes that penetrate the rug.  Most footers try to isolate the component from the rack/floor.  If you have a concrete floor that's counter-productive.  Isolation footers should be designed for a given component weight (the vast majority are far too stiff to give the needed compliance).  The other challenge with isolation footers is matching them to each sub-component (transformer, inductor, capacitor, plinth, platter, tonearm, etc.) inside the piece. 

Your concrete floor is a blessing, take advantage of it and try coupling everything to it.


Photon46

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #9 on: 19 Aug 2021, 01:31 pm »
JLM's advice is tried and true and I used to believe it myself. Having tried a multitude of vibration control strategies I no longer believe the rigid coupling strategy is the only viable strategy. In my case with KEF R500 speakers (48 lbs.) and Tidal Piano Ceras (117 lbs.) I've used used spikes, Ceraball type-couplers, Iso Acoustics Gaia feet, and Stillpoints SS. All three of the less than rigid coupling strategies are quite superior to spiking to a concrete floor with these speakers. They were also superior to spiking after installing hardwood flooring on top of concrete. I was initially suspicious that the wobbly rubbery Iso Acoustic Gaia feet would be step backwards. After all, their design contradicted all the previously held beliefs regarding the superiority of rigid coupling. In my case, the Gaia's were definitely superior to spikes. No single approach to solving any "problem" seems guaranteed to be the universal "the best" in this hobby.

Big Red Machine

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #10 on: 19 Aug 2021, 04:35 pm »
It's nice to have a solid floor versus a wood floor but either way Gaia's will be one of the best technology bets. Don't spike your speakers, especially on concrete.

forky

Re: Vibration Control Needed for Rug on Concrete?
« Reply #11 on: 20 Aug 2021, 12:15 am »
Wow, great info! The GAIAs are ordered and will probably be here before my new Sapphire M3s.

Very interesting about the concrete and will buy some spikes for my rack.

I put my amp on a block (on the rack) and ordered some Orea Bourdeaux's to go under the block vs. the cork there now that came w/ the block.

Just received my Modwright 9.0x and will also buy some iso's for that as well.

That should do it for now and then on to the room itself which is going to be challenging but have a lot of work to do (esp to keep from noise going upstairs so I don't get yelled at to much from my wife - which just happened lol). Thanks again and really great info- esp about the concrete.