Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.

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patricksalter

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**Preface: I'm fully expecting a lot of opinions in this thread with very little facts to back said opinions up.  If you have strong opinions in any direction on this matter, please try and bring some facts to the table supporting your arguments.  No opinions will be ignored if they have facts behind them."**

I need a number of cables and interconnects for various projects, and I need cheap and cheerful recommendations, while getting the highest quality audio possible within this budget.  $100/cable.  Not a penny more.  DYI is acceptable, and expected. 

I have a number of audio related projects going on right now, for myself and for others, for various reasons, were looking to keep the budget Cheap and Cheerful. Lately I've been having lots of conversations with people of all levels of audio knowledge, and I've been hearing all sorts of claims about cables ranging from: "Dirt cheap RCA Cables from Radio Shack (yes they still exist) are some of the best interconnects in the world" to "Blue Jeans cables _____ are the best bang for the buck cable" to "Go into your closet and find a wire hanger, untwist that, and use it for speaker wire, because wires don't matter" to "You're never going to fully express your system unless you spend $2,000 on speaker cables, $500 on power cables, blah blah blah".  Very few people can back up any of their claims with any facts other than anecdotal information.  So, I thought I'd reach out to the C&C community and let people pitch me their advice, and hopefully, people can back that information up with tests they can share, or some sort of evidence they can back up their claims with.  Are there any budget cable shootouts out there you can reference?  Got any triple blind studies you can point me towards?   I'd love to see some facts behind the opinions if possible

For these projects I'm going to need: RCA interconnects, XLR interconnects, Power cables (for amps, receivers, powered monitors) and of course, speaker wires. 

To that end, I'd love to hear all opinions about cables and wires on a very strict $100 or less budget. If that means a $5 RCA cable is truly better than a $1000 cable from (Insert boutique cable company here) then I'd love to hear about it.  I am willing to consider all recommendations, and I am fully prepared to DYI if necessary to get the best performing cables and interconnects I can get at those budgets. 

Just a small sampling of things I am currently considering:

Mogami bulk wire to DYI my own Speaker cables and XLR interconnects. 
Bluejeans cable for all applications. 
Danny Richie at GR Research sells his internal speaker wire to braid in a 4 or 6 lead weave for speaker wires and interconnects at a pretty decent price. 
VHaudio has some interesting options, including the OFC Cryo treated speaker wire for $5/foot. 


If you're one of the people from the "Cables don't matter at all" camp, can you explain how you arrived at that point?   Were you using a high end system that is highly resolving when you came to that conclusion?

I can't wait to hear opinions and evidence from all camps: Best bang for the buck is what I am looking for, and please, remember my budget.  Cheaper is better, but as long as it stays under the $100 threshold (before tax and shipping), I'm going to consider it.  If you want to talk me out of that budget, you have to bring mountains of information to get me to break said budget. 

A appreciate this forum and its members opinions greatly, and all opinions and suggestions will be considered. 

JohnR

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #1 on: 14 Jun 2020, 02:57 am »
Instead of asking other people to provide facts, why don't you build some, run the tests ("triple blind"??) yourself, and report back ;)

FullRangeMan

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #2 on: 14 Jun 2020, 04:39 am »
Best success DIY I had was copying Crystal Cables single solid wire IC, a brand associated to Siltech, I used Neotech copper teflon solid wire awg 20, but the PVC jacketeg are even more affordable.

A_shah

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jun 2020, 07:15 am »
You must be a Fan of Gene DellaSala of Audioholics so I was ! I am still fan of his.  All  speaker wires measure the same when it comes to material , capacitance inductance  gauge geometry Blah Blah Blah ! yep ! measurements do mater BJC are great so are Belkins etc but unfortunately if one has a very resolving system than speaker wires do seem to "sound different" ! "silver sounds different "( bright to start off with! ) Gold Silver copper alloys sound different and how they are made makes a big difference at least to my ears PC also make a difference
& yes I did spend a pretty penny on my power chords speaker cables , and interconnects. at least Psychologically the way it effects my mind and to my emotional state and listening habits I am happy even though my Wife & 23 years think " old old man is crazy " :thumb: :popcorn:
so each to his own if BJC make you happy why not !
cheers ! & stay safe

Asghar

patricksalter

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jun 2020, 08:30 am »
Instead of asking other people to provide facts, why don't you build some, run the tests ("triple blind"??) yourself, and report back ;)

So I would be ok with doing a shootout of cables...but I need a starting place.  Sure, I've got some experience with some cables, but what I am hoping to get out of this post is to take suggestions and advice from other people and use that as a basis to start maybe a cable shootout.  I'd welcome advice for testing methodologies, and to build on what others may have already started.  I'm not trying to just lazily end up selecting options for cables and wires.  The point of my post was to get a conversation started and to maybe make some decisions based on what people are saying, so I can test them, and move forward.  I kinda feel like the whole point of the forum is to reach out for help and offer help when you can.  In this case, I'm looking for help to get things started towards a goal: Find the best cables that $100 can buy, hoping that somebody out there has done the work so I don't have to repeat the work others have gone though.  Certainly these forums are full of opinions and experience that I can learn from and perhaps build off of. 

JLM

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jun 2020, 11:38 am »
I'm old school enough to recall everyone used patch cord (the free interconnects that used to come with components) and zip cord (18 gauge lamp cord) with the best speakers.  So have a hard time buying into fancy/expensive wire, but have tried spending "respectable" money on various wires.  But now am a fan of Audioholics advice and cheaper/respected companies like Blue Jean Cable.  (What's the wire like inside your components?  So why drop $$$ on external wire?)

Currently in my simple ($7000 MSRP) system am using bare wire Madisound Supra Classic 1.6 (15 gauge) speaker cable ($1.22/foot) and Monoprice Premium interconnects RCA-RCA ($3.90/3 ft) and RCA-XLR ($9.24/15ft) for my three subwoofers.  No need to spend more.  Recent systems were balanced and active, so used XLR cables.  In my experience balanced cables exhibit far less differences in sound quality, professionals tend to buy Mogami - an industry standard - known for good build quality at a reasonable price.

Five years ago did a one man shoot out between nine 10ft USB cables.  Three didn't transfer signal.  Three were on loan from The Cable Company.  Listened to snipets from a variety of 36 songs, gave each cable/song a snapshot rating, and totaled them up.  Repeated with 10 additional songs for the top three finishers (one of $300 The Cable Company supplied cables, one Blue Jean Cable, and one from Straightwire).  The $74 Straightwire (that I ended up getting for free) won with the BJC cable a close second.  Note that all The Cable Company cables worked, but 8 hour break-in changed my  preferences between them. 

Four years ago also did a series of one man shoot out between cheap interconnects.  Three never made it to the shoot out (lacked high frequency response, including patch cords and Kimber Kable PBJ's).  My first after market interconnects got smoked in the first shoot out (same sampling methods used for USB cables).  The eventual winner were custom cables made by Scott Endler (the most expensive of the bunch). 

Have an assortment of wires, but if I need more it'll be the Madisound or Monoprice stuff I'm using now, or possibly Blue Jean Cable.

Escott1377

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jun 2020, 11:59 am »
IMO, Sonic Craft is having a sale on Neotech NEI-3003 for $3.66 / ft.  I have a assembled several runs of this cable in system for single end interconnects (DIY).  It is HQ copper and easy to work with.

I am going to be building single ended disconnects from Belden 8422 in the near future and pairing them with Supra speaker wires.  I am going to try unterminated on the speaker wire(s).

I read a lot about the Dueland and WE wire and want to try tinned copper in my system.

I almost may buy some Belden 1313A as speaker cable.

I am not a cable believer, per se, just quality characteristics of the wire is what I look for.

I probably have close to $40k invested in my system, so not ultra hi fi, I would rather spend my $$ on room acoustics and vinyl.

Good luck - looking forward to hearing your result!

« Last Edit: 21 Jun 2020, 01:56 pm by Escott1377 »

Letitroll98

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #7 on: 14 Jun 2020, 12:42 pm »
For DIY spend more on the connectors.  I have some old Kimber PBJ cables that I no longer use, but two pair have the standard Ultraplate connectors and one has the WBT connectors you could get at a higher price.  The Ultraplate fitted cables have the traditional PBJ sound, bright and bouncy with a high frequency tizzle.  The WBT connectors are smooth and sweet, none of that PBJ haze. 

For manufactured cables go to Zu Audio's eBay store, Sean sells off excess stock at bargain prices on both the older lines as well as the newer Mission line.  They also publish a complete set of specs for every cable.

There are numerous bargain brands out there, Morrow, Anti Cable, etc, but I haven't tried them.

JLM

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #8 on: 14 Jun 2020, 01:46 pm »
Entry level Morrow interconnects were one of them that flunked out for me (lacked high frequencies).  And that was with 59 year old ears! 

navi

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #9 on: 14 Jun 2020, 02:25 pm »
I'm a fan of Van Damme Cables for interconnects -
 Silver series LO CAP 55 http://www.van-damme.com/vandamme_product/van-damme-silver-series-session-grade-instrument-cable/

 Pro Grade XKE pro patch cable http://www.van-damme.com/vandamme_product/van-damme-pro-grade-classic-xke-unbalanced-pro-patch-cable/

Their patch cable is very cheap ($2AUD per metre) and isn't as dynamic as the LO CAP 55


Other budget cables I've tried in order of preference:
Klotz MC500
Canare L2T2s
Mogami 2534 Neglex (grainy)
Mogami 2893 (polite)



RCA connectors: Ebay sells a Eichmann Bullet plug copy
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Star-Line-Silver-Plated-Gold-Plated-Tellurium-Copper-RCA-Plug-connector-2Pairs/323989934901?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=513032801453&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
These are very good for the price.



Speaker Cables
Mogami 3103  - it's big and chunky
Canare 4s11- big and chunky with 4 strands.


fredgarvin

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #10 on: 14 Jun 2020, 03:41 pm »
I bought some Mogami 2549 IC's for 25$ because I added a component. I tried them against the Blue jeans LC-1 I had been using and they made the Blue Jeans sound rolled off in comparison. The cables have the ground lifted at the source end so are directional. I had tried a used pair of Audioquest Diamond backs and found them to sound identical to the Blue Jeans. I have tried a couple other cables that sounded poor compared to the Blue Jeans, You might consider trying these Mogami's at that cheap price. There is a seller on Ebay.

Thomas0322

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #11 on: 14 Jun 2020, 04:16 pm »
I will just address speaker cables.  A few months, the local audio club had a guy in town to demonstrate Iconoclast speaker cables.  It was done as an A-B comparison with Mogami speaker cables.  The associated equipment was top of the line.  Revel speakers.  The Iconoclast speaker cables did sound better.  They were expensive cables.  It is something of a mystery why it should make a difference because there were plenty of inductors in the signal path, and the signal must pass through all of that wire. 

I had no intention of paying the price for the Iconoclast cables.  I have my own experience with speaker cables over the years.  I read that a telephone cable could work well.  Until recently, I have been using Cat 6 telephone cable, and I had been satisfied with that.  After the show, I decided to try an experiment.  I prepared some cables using the Cat 6 wire.  I also bought some Cat 8 ethernet cable on Amazon.  That was 50 feet for about $25. 

I cut the Cat 8 into 4 equal lengths.  The way I do all of these cables is to strip the insulation and twist all of the small wires together in a bundle.  That gives a fairly fat wire.  I estimate that the Cat 6 telephone cable comes out to about 12 gauge and the Cat 8 ethernet to about 14 gauge. 

I contacted my host for the Iconoclast demonstration and asked if I could come over and do a comparison.  He agreed.  He had the Iconoclast cables.  I think that our evaluation was similar.  He thought that my Cat 6 cables were about equivalent to the Mogami.  The Cat 8 cables played in the same ballpark as the Iconoclast.  The sonic signature was a little different.  I thought that the Iconoclast had a bit fuller and richer sound and Cat 8 had better rhythm and pace. 

Some Cat 6 telephone cable is copper-plated aluminum.  Don't get that.  Get solid copper.  I'd just order some Cat 8 ethernet cable from Amazon or wherever and cut it up.  You can get 4 12.5 foot cables out of one 50 foot ethernet cable. 

charmerci

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #12 on: 14 Jun 2020, 05:41 pm »
Entry level Morrow interconnects were one of them that flunked out for me (lacked high frequencies).  And that was with 59 year old ears!


I have never really heard anything have a " break-in' period except my Morrow 1.1 cables. It takes a stupid long period for these to do so. They actually give my system a bit of y tube sound, a slightly softer bass and high end with no roll off. I guess the system dependent thing applies.

patricksalter

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #13 on: 14 Jun 2020, 08:21 pm »
Hey this is awesome guys, lots of great information.  I'll respond to individual responses as time goes on.  But it does seem there is some interest in some blind tests being done on said cables.  The problem is, time and money to pull that off.  But if there is enough interest, I may take the time and put together something as scientific as I can.  But the problem would be budget.  It would cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to do a shootout of even a marginally sized shootout unless I can get manufacturers to loan me cables to use as part of said test. 


Texbychoice

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #14 on: 14 Jun 2020, 09:00 pm »
I will be happy to share results.  After an "audiophile" RCA interconnect failed recently decided to make my own.  When cut open shocking how small the center conductor, 26 or 28 gauge.  Will be using Cordial CMK222.  Two OFC Copper conductors with copper weave shield.  The two conductors will carry signal and return.  The shield will be terminated to return on one end of the cable. 

charmerci

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #15 on: 14 Jun 2020, 10:30 pm »
You could ask AC members to send you/let you borrow inexpensive IC's for the test.

annamarykahn

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #16 on: 14 Jun 2020, 11:11 pm »
I will just address speaker cables.  A few months, the local audio club had a guy in town to demonstrate Iconoclast speaker cables.  It was done as an A-B comparison with Mogami speaker cables.  The associated equipment was top of the line.  Revel speakers.  The Iconoclast speaker cables did sound better.  They were expensive cables.  It is something of a mystery why it should make a difference because there were plenty of inductors in the signal path, and the signal must pass through all of that wire. 

I had no intention of paying the price for the Iconoclast cables.  I have my own experience with speaker cables over the years.  I read that a telephone cable could work well.  Until recently, I have been using Cat 6 telephone cable, and I had been satisfied with that.  After the show, I decided to try an experiment.  I prepared some cables using the Cat 6 wire.  I also bought some Cat 8 ethernet cable on Amazon.  That was 50 feet for about $25. 

I cut the Cat 8 into 4 equal lengths.  The way I do all of these cables is to strip the insulation and twist all of the small wires together in a bundle.  That gives a fairly fat wire.  I estimate that the Cat 6 telephone cable comes out to about 12 gauge and the Cat 8 ethernet to about 14 gauge. 

I contacted my host for the Iconoclast demonstration and asked if I could come over and do a comparison.  He agreed.  He had the Iconoclast cables.  I think that our evaluation was similar.  He thought that my Cat 6 cables were about equivalent to the Mogami.  The Cat 8 cables played in the same ballpark as the Iconoclast.  The sonic signature was a little different.  I thought that the Iconoclast had a bit fuller and richer sound and Cat 8 had better rhythm and pace. 

Some Cat 6 telephone cable is copper-plated aluminum.  Don't get that.  Get solid copper.  I'd just order some Cat 8 ethernet cable from Amazon or wherever and cut it up.  You can get 4 12.5 foot cables out of one 50 foot ethernet cable.

you stripped off all of the insulation, not just the jacket, & twisted the bare copper conductors together?

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #17 on: 15 Jun 2020, 01:31 am »
I have gone through several bang for the buck RCA's and XLR's and some relatively expensive Cardas and AQ XLRs in the $400 range.

The best bang for the buck RCA and XLR I found are the Belden 8402 XLR's from btma.com

https://btpa.com/IC8402XLR-XX.html 

They sound better than my Cardas Parsec's and AQ Colombia 72v DBS cables.  They are well worth the money.  I find them neutral, clear and the high frequencies are silky smooth.  I own BJC XLR and RCA's and they are grainy in comparison with to much sibilants.

For power cords, I like Cullen Gold series but the Red Copper series will be in your budget for under $100 depending upon the length you need.  Pangea also makes some nice budget cords.

 http://www.cullencable.com/red-series/

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14XL2&variation=0.6

I like the Cullen cables for their heavy gauge and quality.

For speaker wire I buy bulk BJC 10ga wire from BJC's and buy their spades and locking banana plugs and terminate them myself.  I prefer 10g as I use Magnepan speakers and they are current hungry and I have long runs of 12'.  They do sell 12 and 14g.


There are a lot of great suggestions from others.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #18 on: 15 Jun 2020, 01:45 am »
Hey this is awesome guys, lots of great information.  I'll respond to individual responses as time goes on.  But it does seem there is some interest in some blind tests being done on said cables.  The problem is, time and money to pull that off.  But if there is enough interest, I may take the time and put together something as scientific as I can.  But the problem would be budget.  It would cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to do a shootout of even a marginally sized shootout unless I can get manufacturers to loan me cables to use as part of said test.


The Cable Co. will let you rent up to 5 cables to compare-

https://www.thecableco.com/cables/interconnects.html?dir=asc&order=price

Saturn94

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Re: Lets talk about cheap and cheerful cables and wires.
« Reply #19 on: 15 Jun 2020, 02:51 am »
...For speaker wire I buy bulk BJC 10ga wire from BJC's and buy their spades and locking banana plugs and terminate them myself...

I’m curious why you terminate them yourself rather than ordering them already terminated with your selected connectors?  :scratch: