Torus - Feedback/Reviews

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James Tanner

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Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« on: 30 Oct 2007, 08:53 am »
Nice letter from Torus customer.

http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/Torus_CR_102007.pdf

james

« Last Edit: 1 Oct 2008, 12:25 am by James Tanner »

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Customer Feedback
« Reply #1 on: 27 Jun 2008, 05:26 pm »
MEMO - Bryston Customer Feedback
SUBJECT – Torus Powerline Isolation Unit


Hi James

Having recently bought the single 20A, Torus through Creative Audio in Winnipeg, they told me that you would be interested in my impressions of it.  I should start by giving you some background, so you can keep things in context.

Background:
Almost a year ago, I replaced a Sonic Frontier Line 1 pre, and two Power 1 amps (verti-cal biamp) in my main system, with a BP 26 and a 14 BSST, also from Creative Audio.  I spent a fair amount of time tweaking those pieces with power cord changes, footers, cardas caps, and more recently swapping out almost all my IC's to Bryston ones, re-placing more expensive, but not as good sounding, cables.  So main core of the system is basically Bryston.  Other components include a VPI Scoutmaster to a very tweaked Slee Era Gold V phono section, digital side is done by a Musical Fidelity A3 CDP used as a transport to a Musical Fidelity Trivista DAC (where the Bryston cable also makes a great digital cable), and the tuner is a Parasound Halo T3, connected by XLR to the pre. Speakers are Martin Logan Aeons.(with  Goertz  M1.3 cables)   

Almost everything has been tweaked. Atlantis  Reference stands (2), with clumping kitty litter in the tubes, Linn skeets under the  top shelves and bottom of the stands, 3 inch maple block under the TT, footers include Tara Lab vanishing points, BDR's, and Finite Element ceraballs, and more Linn skeets under the speakers.  Power cords are a range from Moray James, into almost all things including the speakers.  I am aware that power
matters, and that power cords tend to improve things, but also that they react differently to individual components. Everything was originally plugged into a Panamax 5510, with power set to balanced on the  4 transformer based lines (regenerated ) which I used for the CDP, DAC, phono and TT motor. Panamax was further tweaked using BDR's as footers into Linn skeets as cups, and Cardas caps over all RCA's and also on the XLR connectors for the lamp attachment.  (I know it seemed strange, to do to the Panamax, but there really was quite an improvement especially with the XLR caps)

Conditioners:
When I had the Sonic Frontier gear hooked up, the indicator  gauge on the front  of the Panamax would indicate about a 6-7 amp draw.  I was quite surprised that the switch to the Bryston components had the same gauge indicating only about a 2 amp draw.  This especially as the14 BSST is capable of far more power.  I know the gauge is not really a reliable indicator, given the need for short bursts of power as required by the music being played.  In my situation though, I required a conditioner especially as I have so many pieces to plug in, the Panamax was an improvement over the wall (and over the Panamax 5500, and the Tice Solo I had used previously), and most importantly - Win-nipeg tends to get some stunning lightening storms during the summer, so protection is essential.

So originally, the Bryston components slotted into the Panamax basically as a straight replacement to the Sonic Frontier stuff. Things sounded better than with the tubed stuff, with improvements in detail, and a new and wonderful bottom end grip on the speakers.     Still, I had a couple of mystery shut offs of the amp - for which I eventually figured out that with some of the brown outs -the fuse switch /breaker on the back of the 14 BSST must be responding very quickly.  Pre would stay on, but not the amp.  Now this is ac-tually a good thing in that I know it protects things, but I do leave my pre and amp on at all times (sounds much better).  So this in turn lead me to reconsider the Panamax, even though I thought the amp plug in section on it was not current limiting, and only had some surge protection on it.  One day I decided to do a little test.  I had read that you do not recommend a conditioner be used on the Bryston amps, but really, it looked like I was getting less draw now, so a conditioner must be a good thing...Well, short end of things, I was surprised that the Bryston actually sounded much better straight into the wall, than into the Panamax, with the bloom being about the same, but a removal of a haze across everything that I had not realized before (remember, the Panamax was better with the Sonic Frontier than the wall)  Much research later, and it was time to test a Torus.

See below:

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Customer Feedback
« Reply #2 on: 27 Jun 2008, 05:27 pm »
Plese see above:

Torus RM 20:
Physical Impressions :

After carrying the Torus in, even though it is heavy, I found that it was not overly awk-ward to move as the weight is centrally balanced. In my case, fortunately slotting into a bottom shelf of the rack, beside the amp. I was happy to notice that the black of the case matches pretty closely to the Bryston black cases, and that the silver also matches the fronts of the Bryston components.  No gauges, no bells and whistles, and maybe less things that could go wrong down the road. Ground attachment on the back is best describes as utilitarian, but than I am not using it.  Power switch on front being fairly large, and with an orange like glow when on (and never off in my case).  Case-work is slotted top, sides and bottom for best ventilation I assumed.  Tapping on the top casework was quite noisy with a loose rattle of thinner metal.  Small reservations were about the orange glow (matches nothing, and would it be irritating at night listening), the ventilated bottom meant I was loath to try different footers than the stock rubber based ones (and still haven't), and for the rattle, well maybe it wouldn't be an issue.  Time to plug in, in this case using the 15 amp adapter cord for the wall. (14 gauge for now).

Warm Up:
Initial turn on, was that basically everything seemed to work, but there was nothing special going on. In fact the soundstage was way more sucked back than I was used to.  Not to panic, as I did realize that things needed to run in, and there was the hint of this with the slotted casework. After 2 days of being on, the casework started to feel warm -sort of more than on a 4 BSST but less than on the 14 BSST.  By day 5 the bloom started to improve. By day 7, things were definitely improving. With the heat - the top casework seemed to expand and tighten a bit (still not great, but better) ,and initially I found that until the bloom aspect started to improve, I was actually turning the volume up louder than I normally would to achieve the same aspect of soundstage I was look-ing for. This also improved with time (needing less volume, but more on this later)  Overall, needing about 2 weeks of warm up / run in.

Testing:
Test parameters were fairly simple.  Set up Panamax 5510 on top of the Torus RM20 (not using the footers on the Panamax, but cork pads for casework protection of the Torus) , and swap out some power cords.  Well at least that was the initial plan.

First test was taking the amp off the Torus and going straight to the wall. While the wall may have been better than the Panamax before, now I was finding that the soundstage was about 30-40 % bigger with the Torus.  Concepts like a sweet spot were thrown out, as the bloom differences were so different.  I have a fairly well set up room / listening position normally, but before, head shifts were an aspect to being in the sweet spot. Sound was ok at off angles, but there was a difference. Now the bloom was so much more, that small shifts in the listening chair was moot.  Amp in the Torus was a winner -but what about the other components ?  Especially as I was originally attracted to the Panamax for the improvements it did to my TT at the time.

So next test was on the vinyl side. Here I decided I did not want to test out the differ-ences in the phono section itself, as I know the Slee is quite unhappy being unplugged, taking a long time to come back up to full bloom.  Instead I thought I would simply play some Keith Jarrett, Koln Concert as a test of pitch and speed control for the TT  motor.   Started with the Panamax set to balanced power, as I normally use it.  (originally with the tubed stuff, I had found that balanced had more harmonic content, while the iso-lated power option on the Panamax emphasized the leading edges of the notes)  On balanced power, I thought the Panamax had a brighter more forward presentation, with a soundstage bloom about the same size as the Torus.  It was also an easy option to switch to the isolated transformer option of the Panamax, by clicking one button -which showed the soundstage to be not as forward (as balanced) and actually having a bit better back detail.  This was a bit different than I had found with the tubed stuff -and may be due to the change to the Bryston equipment.  However -the end result showed the Torus to have a bigger soundstage than the Panamax on isolated (same as on bal-anced), tonality was better than Panamax balanced, and with the Torus, the back-ground details seemed more present coming from a blacker sense of depth.  I could detect no difference in speed control between the two units.

Next test was going to be on the digital side, but this turned into really a no test.  Tried to put both CDP and DAC into the Panamax, and  for some reason the DAC refused to lock onto the signal, or hold it.  Sort of getting a static charge tripping the DAC which was gone and lock on a non -issue as soon as I plugged things into the Torus.  I took this as a sign of a good grounding scheme on the Torus.  From what I could hear at the time, the Torus had more presence, inner detail and attack than the Panamax.  Further listening since then, would also include much more bloom, to the point where things are very closely matched to the vinyl side, which I thought could never happen. 
(but than is that a question of system improvements ?)

Next I thought I would do a quick swap of power cord on the tuner, going from the fil-tered circuit I normally use on the Panamax , to the Torus.  I mean it is a tuner. How much difference could there be ?..Turns out a lot more.  Same song starts, listen, shut tuner  off, switch to Torus, turn tuner on, and same song continues.  Instantly notice about a 20 % improvement in bloom, and much more detail to the notes.  Things seem-ing dull on the Panamax.  In this case -gains on the tuner seem more akin to an up-grade in equipment. Seemed pointless to test out the pre at this time, and since I liked what had happened so far, I just assumed things were all to the good.  However, I have had further observations on this, by using the headphone section of the BP 26 (using Grado RS 2's) Some aspects may be because of improvements on the digital side made with the Torus, however using the headphones I am noticing even more bass im-pact than I have ever had, and a further separation of depth to the soundfield.

Summary:
Overall, the Torus TM 20 is quite the winner.  Improvements to all things plugged into it over the Panamax.  Turns out that the orange power light really is not irritating at night.  There is still a small aspect to the soundstage being a bit more pulled back than I had with the Panamax but than I also realize that what I am actually getting is a very large improvement in depth to the soundstage.  Details come out that I never noticed before, again from a blacker background.

A small price to pay for these improvements are that especially on the vinyl side -things have become much more revealing of the quality and condition of the LP's.  Some compression of the soundstage to a digital recording compared to a tubed recording.  Differences in phase very evident .  Bloom aspects abound on any format -however there is a small observation.  As I indicated before -I leave the equipment powered on, but when not in use, I turn the pre right down.  I am now noticing that when I first turn things back up for music - the sense of bloom improves over the first 5-10 minutes, and than stabilizes. I suspect it is a case of the transformer in the Torus charging up.   

Afterwards there seems to be the bloom with more ease to the sound. At this point, you can turn the volume down , and still maintain a bit more bass impact and detail at a quieter volume setting than I ever had pre Torus, or leave the volume and enjoy a very nice sonic treat.  I do find every piece of music seems to have it;s own sweet spot of how much power it needs to open up, but with the Torus everything just sounds better.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.  I know it is a bit long, but than I also know that there has been very little said about the Torus units so far.  Hopefully you will find it useful.

Ciao, Tony



James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Customer Feedback
« Reply #3 on: 1 Oct 2008, 12:19 am »

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #4 on: 1 Oct 2008, 01:06 am »

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #5 on: 1 Oct 2008, 04:01 pm »
Hi All,
 
I just realized that we have accumulated quite a few impressive reviews on Torus over the past 2 years.
So here's a link to all the reviews on the Torus website.
 
http://www.toruspower.com/news.htm
 
james
 

klao

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #6 on: 1 Oct 2008, 05:27 pm »
Hello James,

To avoid confusion of prospective international buyers of Torus units, it would be nice if photos or drawings of the back panel showing all the three outlet options are in their website somewhere.

Thank you,
KS

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #7 on: 1 Oct 2008, 05:39 pm »
Hello James,

To avoid confusion of prospective international buyers of Torus units, it would be nice if photos or drawings of the back panel showing all the three outlet options are in their website somewhere.

Thank you,
KS

Hi,

OK good idea - I will pass it along.

james

klao

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #8 on: 5 Oct 2008, 09:03 pm »
Oops!  They already have those outlet pictures in the updated August 2008 brochure.   :oops:

http://www.toruspower.com/pdf_files/Torus%206%20page%20August%202008.pdf

So, James, is it possible to special order, at my own risk, to have international 240V version with 20A/125VAC spec, US style, outlets?  Otherwise, I'll have to re-terminate all my 10 power cords or so to the German/Schuko style plugs and dedicate them to the Torus unit only (won't be able to use with other household wall outlets, all of which are in US-style).

klao

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #9 on: 6 Oct 2008, 07:11 pm »
I guess the answer would be no.

Anyway, James, what kind of male plugs can be used with the IEC outlets on the normal Torus Int'l models?  Could you please show me photos or link to those?  I think it's cheaper for me to reterminate my AC cables with those male plugs instead, because the number of outlets for Torus 8A Int'l Ger are only 5 as oppose to 10 IEC outlets in normal 8A Int'l unit.

Thank you.

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #10 on: 6 Oct 2008, 07:15 pm »
I guess the answer would be no.

Anyway, James, what kind of male plugs can be used with the IEC outlets on the normal Torus Int'l models?  Could you please show me photos or link to those?  I think it's cheaper for me to reterminate my AC cables with those male plugs instead, because the number of outlets for Torus 8A Int'l Ger are only 5 as oppose to 10 IEC outlets in normal 8A Int'l unit.

Thank you.

Hi Klao,

Sorry Correct - Torus will not supply a unit with USA style plugs in a 240 volt unit.
Email me at Bryston and I will forward you some drawings of the IEC back panels.

james

Daniel Datchev

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #11 on: 8 Oct 2008, 06:07 am »
Hi James,
because most of the post concern American market and the information provided by the Torus Power web
does not cover all aspects about what should be recommended power consumption of the units connected to the PIU.
Presently I have modest system, but if I am going to buy PIU I have to consider further upgrade of the system.
Up to which model of Bryston amplifier could be hooked to RM8 INT`l?
Daniel

rabpaul

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #12 on: 8 Oct 2008, 07:18 am »
Hi Klao,

Sorry Correct - Torus will not supply a unit with USA style plugs in a 240 volt unit.
Email me at Bryston and I will forward you some drawings of the IEC back panels.

james

Quote
AS of AUGUST 2008, INTERNATIONAL SERIES ARE  AVAILABLE in 3 STYLES:
IEC OUTLETS
GERMAN STYLE OUTLETS
UK STYLE OUTLETS
Does the above from the Torus Website not say otherwise?
I too am not keen on changing my cabling to UK style so that I can use a International Series Torus.

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #13 on: 8 Oct 2008, 10:58 am »
Hi Klao,

Sorry Correct - Torus will not supply a unit with USA style plugs in a 240 volt unit.
Email me at Bryston and I will forward you some drawings of the IEC back panels.

james

Quote
AS of AUGUST 2008, INTERNATIONAL SERIES ARE  AVAILABLE in 3 STYLES:
IEC OUTLETS
GERMAN STYLE OUTLETS
UK STYLE OUTLETS
Does the above from the Torus Website not say otherwise?
I too am not keen on changing my cabling to UK style so that I can use a International Series Torus.

Sorry I guess I was not very clear - the Torus units are still available with IEC outlets but not USA 'U' Ground style plugs with 240 volt output.

james

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #14 on: 8 Oct 2008, 11:42 am »
Hi James,
because most of the post concern American market and the information provided by the Torus Power web
does not cover all aspects about what should be recommended power consumption of the units connected to the PIU.
Presently I have modest system, but if I am going to buy PIU I have to consider further upgrade of the system.
Up to which model of Bryston amplifier could be hooked to RM8 INT`l?
Daniel


Hi Daniel,

The 240 Volt RM-8 would be OK with 2-7B's at 8 ohms.  Most source gear does not draw much amperage at all so your concern is mainly the amplifiers used.  Some Video Projectors will take 2-3 amps as well.

james

Daniel Datchev

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #15 on: 8 Oct 2008, 01:50 pm »
Hi James,
tnx for quick responce.I suppose that I can`t go so high for the moment and near future.
What I wonder is do the Bryston products could deal with most of the problems like line noise or the the solution is too expensive to be implemented in every unit? Question is " Is this worth the price of Torus Power  for improvement of the system?''
Daniel

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #16 on: 8 Oct 2008, 03:25 pm »
Hi James,
tnx for quick responce.I suppose that I can`t go so high for the moment and near future.
What I wonder is do the Bryston products could deal with most of the problems like line noise or the the solution is too expensive to be implemented in every unit? Question is " Is this worth the price of Torus Power  for improvement of the system?''
Daniel

Hi Daniel,

It's a tough question to answer because there are many types of power supply designs out there and the Torus would definitely help on some (EX: switching supplies). If your just looking at 'noise' on the line any well designed power supply will reject noise reasonably well.

I guess my best advice given Bryston gear would be that the 'Source' gear (CD player, Preamps etc.) have very good linear power supply design and putting a Torus in front of them for noise reduction purposes 'only' would not provide that much better performance.

With power amplifiers though it is a completely different story. The Power amp wants to draw huge amounts of current on musical transients and the wall plug can not supply it due to the wall plugs high impedance. The Torus is designed to provide these transients with instantaneous current when required. So the ability to deliver the current on short term demand is the main advantage of the Torus Isolation transformers.

The other main benefit of the Torus is Spike and Lightning Surge protection using Series Mode Surge protection (NOT MOV's - which are sacrificial components)

As for noise the Torus Isolation transformer will start to filter noise at about 2K whereas most simply filters do not start filtering till above 10K

james
« Last Edit: 9 Oct 2008, 12:15 pm by James Tanner »

Daniel Datchev

Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #17 on: 8 Oct 2008, 03:59 pm »
Hi James,
your post gave me complete answer to all my thoughts.
thanks again
Daniel

James Tanner

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #18 on: 7 Dec 2008, 03:11 pm »
Hi All,

Please see below:

MEMO To: All Torus Customers:
SUBJECT:  2008 MUST HAVE PRODUCT

Editor's Picks: 14 Must-Have Products From 2008

CE Pro editor Bob Archer rounds up the best products he saw demoed or reviewed from 2008.

Torus RM-15 Power Conditioner

The competitively priced RM-15 is a 15-amp component that includes 10 outlets.
It also has the ability to protect against 6,000 volts/3,000 amp surges, noise filtration and rack mounting options.

The quality and power protection approach used by Torus provides homeowners with a well-engineered product that they’ll never notice once it’s installed.

http://www.cepro.com/slideshow/image/3984/

Rod_S

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Re: Torus - Feedback/Reviews
« Reply #19 on: 9 Dec 2008, 12:42 pm »
Great reviews of the Torus gear, very nice. I am curious if anyone has had an opportunity to compare the Torus units to the Furman Reference series products. I have a Furman IT-Reference (the original Reference product I think, it's equivalent product would be the IT-Reference 20i today) in which I have 2 4B-SSTs , a 6B-SST and a Paradigm Servo-15 subwoofer connected to it along with my other gear. I am curious if there would be any improvement moving to a Torus unit and if so what Torus model I would need. I also have the Furman SPR20i for voltage regulation in which my spill over components are connected along with a second Paradigm Servo-15. My IT-Reference is connected to the SPR 20i as well because the voltage in my apartment varies from 116-127. The reason for the second subwoofer being plugged into the SPR-20i is two fold, first, it's located too far away from my IT-Reference for it's included power cord and secondly the Furman IT-Reference has only 4 dedicated power amp outlets so I wanted to use the remaining 8 for the intended non power amplifer components.

Thanks,

Rod