ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !

turkey · « **Reply #160 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 09:45 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 19 Jan 2010, 09:31 pm

rarely achieved 4th stage of power. I have really only 2 CDs that can do this effectively, namely the Brian Setzer Orchestra and a Telarc CD of Arron Copland that is very dynamic.

What's the 4th stage of power?

satfrat · « **Reply #161 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 10:18 pm »

Wayner, could you offer any comparisons or opinions between this new Vision Dac when compared to the Ultra Dac which is quite a bit more expensive? Thanks.

I did finally have an opportunity last week to listen to an old Insight(edit) Dac and came away impressed.

Cheers,
Robin

avahifi · « **Reply #162 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 10:31 pm »

Old Vision DAC? There are no old Vision DACs.

Frank

Wayner · « **Reply #163 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 10:39 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 20 Jan 2010, 09:45 pm

What's the 4th stage of power?

That is a term I have coined thru my listening years.

1st stage = music softly playing.
2nd stage = music easily heard.
3rd stage = music becomes dominate.
4th stage = music is at concert levels, concert dynamics.

Few can achieve it successfully. When you are there, it is music perfection as it was made to be played, as it was recorded, with dynamics and impact. Requires lots of power.

Wayner

satfrat · « **Reply #164 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 11:02 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 20 Jan 2010, 10:31 pm

Old Vision DAC? There are no old Vision DACs.

Frank

Opps, my mistake Frank. It was an Insight Dac. I'm not all that familiar with your product line so I had to find out the right model name via email. Regardless, I did like what I heard thru a set of Salk HT-3's.

Cheers,
Robin

smargo · « **Reply #165 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 11:36 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 20 Jan 2010, 09:34 pm

Some have commented that the DAC sounded better as time went on. My friends, you are simply getting use to your favorite CDs sounding in a better presentation. It will take some time for the mind to get use to the new presentation of the music.

Wayner

your kidding me right - wayne - whats the difference if i think the unit adds something over time - Are you judging my ears and the way i hear things?

I think your way off base and borderline ridiculous in saying that that im getting use to my favorite cd's sounding in a better presentation - especially in the first day your listening.

use it for 3 weeks and say the same thing and Ill consider aquiescing to your
theory.

jtwrace · « **Reply #166 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 11:42 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 20 Jan 2010, 09:34 pm

Some have commented that the DAC sounded better as time went on. My friends, you are simply getting use to your favorite CDs sounding in a better presentation. It will take some time for the mind to get use to the new presentation of the music.
Wayner

You are correct IMO!

trebejo · « **Reply #167 on:** 20 Jan 2010, 11:50 pm »

Come on guys! Now we are arguing not about whether the new DAC is great, but over when you decided it was so?

If you like the DAC, and you can tell us something about it, that is very interesting. If you are a quick or a slow learner on that topic is far less interesting, isn't it?

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #168 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 12:22 am »

I have been listening to the Vision DAC from my Vision DAC/Preamp with an interconnect between the Vision DAC/Preamp's tape out and one of the T8 preamp's inputs. The Vision DAC is very quiet. The clarity is outstanding. The low end is very powerful and well defined. I have also briefly compared the Vision DAC to the T8 DAC. The Vision DAC is quieter (blacker) than the T8 DAC, even with the 6CG7 tubes. The T8 DAC has good low end, but the Vision DAC's is flatter, deeper, and better defined. The Vision DAC also seems to have better high end extension. The T8 DAC with the Mazda 6CG7 tubes seems to roll off the high end. The T8 DAC produces more pronounced and extended sound with brushes on snares and cymbals and growly voices are more growly. I don't know why the T8 DAC appears to have those different characteristics, however, but I like a lot of growl in my growly, and I am not yet ready to take the T8 out of the mix. Choices, choices (and I am grateful to have them).

smargo · « **Reply #169 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 12:45 am »

Quote from: trebejo on 20 Jan 2010, 11:50 pm

Come on guys! Now we are arguing not about whether the new DAC is great, but over when you decided it was so?

exactly the point - who gives a flying f--k when the decision is made - I just think wayner has no business taking a shot at the break-in and hours people

martyo · « **Reply #170 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 12:20 pm »

So Wayne, the DAC is in the "big room" set?

Wayner · « **Reply #171 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 12:26 pm »

Yes the DAC is in the big room. Smargo, if you want to believe that your DAC/whatever breaks in, then that's fine with me. Your reaction to an off the cuff statement of mine is a bit over the top, but I'm OK with that. You obviously have strong believes thru your experiences. I do to, but my education in psychology and brain shit tells me that there are other factors involved other then the device "finally coming around" theory. It's like going to work in a new place, the first day not even remembering where the bathrooms are. By week 3, everything about the new work place is known. Did it break in, or did I get used to the new environment.

Wayner

martyo · « **Reply #172 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 12:34 pm »

Quote

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 21 Jan 2010, 12:22 am
I have been listening to the Vision DAC from my Vision DAC/Preamp with an interconnect between the Vision DAC/Preamp's tape out and one of the T8 preamp's inputs. The Vision DAC is very quiet. The clarity is outstanding. The low end is very powerful and well defined. I have also briefly compared the Vision DAC to the T8 DAC. The Vision DAC is quieter (blacker) than the T8 DAC, even with the 6CG7 tubes. The T8 DAC has good low end, but the Vision DAC's is flatter, deeper, and better defined. The Vision DAC also seems to have better high end extension. The T8 DAC with the Mazda 6CG7 tubes seems to roll off the high end. The T8 DAC produces more pronounced and extended sound with brushes on snares and cymbals and growly voices are more growly. I don't know why the T8 DAC appears to have those different characteristics, however, but I like a lot of growl in my growly, and I am not yet ready to take the T8 out of the mix. Choices, choices (and I am grateful to have them).

Thanks OINP. Descriptions like that really help me get an idea of how something might sound.

turkey · « **Reply #173 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:34 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 20 Jan 2010, 10:39 pm

Few can achieve it successfully. When you are there, it is music perfection as it was made to be played, as it was recorded, with dynamics and impact. Requires lots of power.

Wayner

Lots of power or efficient speakers.

turkey · « **Reply #174 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: smargo on 21 Jan 2010, 12:45 am

exactly the point - who gives a flying f--k when the decision is made - I just think wayner has no business taking a shot at the break-in and hours people

Why not? Nobody has ever shown any measurements to prove that there is a break-in cycle for electronics. The engineers state that there is no known process that would account for what some people say they hear. The "break-in and hours people" are making an extraordinary claim, so they need to back it up with some proof. Until there's proof, they have nothing.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #175 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 02:45 pm »

Can we please not go OT on break-in again here? Let's let folks post their impressions at a point that they feel is appropriate, and then if they hear differences over time, I'd love to hear about that as well. I'd hate to see the thread get hi-jacked by break-in debate again.

smargo · « **Reply #176 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:07 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 21 Jan 2010, 02:45 pm

Can we please not go OT on break-in again here? Let's let folks post their impressions at a point that they feel is appropriate, and then if they hear differences over time, I'd love to hear about that as well. I'd hate to see the thread get hi-jacked by break-in debate again.

agreed - 1000%

martyo · « **Reply #177 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 03:42 pm »

Quote

Quote from: roscoeiii on Today at 08:45 AMCan we please not go OT on break-in again here? Let's let folks post their impressions at a point that they feel is appropriate, and then if they hear differences over time, I'd love to hear about that as well. I'd hate to see the thread get hi-jacked by break-in debate again.

Quote from: smargo on 21 Jan 2010, 03:07 pm

agreed - 1000%

Way to be Stu.

Wayner · « **Reply #178 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 04:51 pm »

Oh good, back to peace.

Actually my comment about break-in was actually more directed to the fact that one could immediately tell the difference in performances between the Insight and Vision DACs.

To that end, I will use this over used term and say "linearity". What Oneinthepipe and others who have the new Vision DAC maybe experiencing a very, very linear behaving DAC, bass, midrange and high frequesncies all in balance with each other. I have solid bass at low listening levels, real bass at moderate listening levels and commanding (but not overwhelming bass at higher volumes. The frequency response of the DAC and power output is ruler flat at all volumes. That is the reason I am hearing more "air" in the recording. On Tears for Fears" Live in California, the natural air, the reverb of the recording is as I would expect in real life. It sounds like an outdoor concert.

I need to listen to some classical later on (Aaron Copeland) and some big band like Brian Setzer to get a better feel, but I don't know how I could not recommend this DAC to everyone.

Wayner

jtwrace · « **Reply #179 on:** 21 Jan 2010, 05:00 pm »

wayner

Just as an FYI...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76053.0